The Know Show – the zone has been flooded with shit, seeking clarity

It’s time to get the show on the road after a long break, and boy a lot has happened since our last show in December. Our 2025 kick off will just be the three of us – Andrea, Joe and Tim – with the goal of trying to make sense of what’s going on, which is not easy, because there’s not a lot of clarity out there, even from the best voices globally. 

We’re going to cover as much as we can, from the actions of Donald Trump to Elon Musk and DOGE, the Democrats apparent vapid response, the power behind the power, the ripping up of the normal world order and what it means, AI, Gaza, global aid and of course, climate change. There’s a lot to discuss and this will definitely be a more freewheeling discussion than normal. 

One of the key issues that keeps coming to the fore as we try to grasp the enormity and complexity of the situation we are in – whether we are American or not – is a lack of imagination about what it all means and how big this really is. Where is it taking us? What should we expect? And how do we get our minds prepared, when the world is changing so dramatically? Lots to discuss and we’d love to have you with us. 

The Livestream kicks off at 3pm Singapore time, Friday 7th January 2025. Ask questions, challenge assumptions, give us your view. In fact, if you want, come and join us as a guest. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the planetary crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics and war, business and technology, social issues, and passion/humour/history. Join us. 

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To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to The No Show. My name is Andrea Edwards. My name is Tim Wade. And my name is Joe Augustine. People struggle to talk about what The No Show is about. While you struggle, I'm gonna do the one thing that he's not supposed to do at the start of it, which is get you to go to subscribe, like, do all kind of stuff to share with social media on the off chance that you might like what you're gonna hear and wanna share about it and forget about doing it later on. Right? So the deal is very simple. After you watch the whole thing, if you don't like it, send it back to the kitchen. Yeah. So the dough show is about the world, what's been happening. It's got all the stuff that I kind of super, super, super, super hashtagged in my post on LinkedIn. We try and talk about the world, everything that's happened, the life that you know, the world that we know, the climate, the economy, all the kind of stuff, and we try to do it all in an hour, and we always fail. Fail. Yeah. Impossible at this point. Yes. Yes. So our our fearless leader, is to the left of your screen, Andrea Edwards. She spends a lot of time writing and thinking about stuff. And we're gonna start the show with something a little bit different. Right? And it's a perspective I think anybody who's outside of Singapore would be quite curious about. And in fact, I'm sure people have said some things to you, Andrea, about it before already about this. You've just put your son, into national service in Singapore. Yes. Yes. Why? And it's amazing. I'm actually putting an FAQ together, because I I'm getting asked so many questions about it. And, some people are horrified, which which I find really interesting that, we'd put our sons through this. So we're permanent residents of Singapore, and that's part of the obligation, and we knew that when we signed up for it. Over the years, we've talked to the boys about it pretty consistently and, you know, there's been the why did you do that to me sort of conversations. But it's something that I think is really, really important, and it's actually something I think the rest of the world could learn from. So the first thing is, for me, it's about so I I was in the Australian military. I did basic training and, for for my whole life, I while it wasn't a pleasant experience, I valued what I got from it, and there's lots of things that you get from it. But I have three missions for my boys. I want them to learn how to fight, how to shoot, and how to grow food. And I've said that for a long time. I've said it on the show before. And the go the reason is I can see the future that's coming, and I think there's some skills that we've lost that we need to get back. And, that's, you know, self self sufficiency and the ability to protect yourself is one. So having that military training in the mix, I think, is a good thing. The second thing that's always really impressed me, every time I go to a wedding in Singapore, there's always a couple of tables at the back where the old fellas sit, and they're all drinking whiskey and having a really good time. It's always multicultural. And they're NS buddies. And they serve twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years ago if granddad's in in in the room. Right? And it's incredible to me that the bond. And one of the big issues in the world is social cohesion. So our societies are falling apart. And so to me, national service and we we could we could recreate the concept of national service in a different way. Like, I'd like to see, an environmental service where when kids graduate from school, they go and serve their country for two years, and they replenish the land, and they get educated on, you know, basic survival skills and all that sort of stuff. So social cohesion, bringing our societies back together. So that's another thing that I really, really value about it. And the final thing is the ability to work with anyone. So I graduated uni when I went into basic training in Australia. So I was the highest educated person in my platoon, and there were people that hadn't even graduated from year 10. And so the the the level of knowledge and understanding and, you know, in intellectual abilities really, really varied, and you had to work together as a team. And, you know, Lexi's really, really struggling with Singlish. You can imagine it. Right? He's also having an interesting experience with the food. He you know, every now and again, he'll just eat anything, and he goes, oh, sometimes, mom, there's vomit in my mouth afterwards. And we're just having such a giggle because he but he's trying everything. Whereas my next son, he's gotta go in. He's not gonna enjoy that. Like, that fried rice with little tiny fish in it, whatever white baby, whatever it's called. Oh, that's not yeah. Yeah. He's not a fan, but he's gotta wait. And he's learning that food is fuel, not a luxury. Right? So it's, yeah, so it's it's good. And he he he got off to a rough start for about forty eight hours, but now he's he's ringing us every night, and he's he's enjoying it, especially when they're out doing physical things. So it's he gets bored if he has to sit in a room and learn something. So it's good. Cool. It's not recommended. That he's doing well. Yeah. Well, I I like that we, we we heard about that. I think we just got the most controversial thing on today's show out of the way. That's right. Right. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm actually I'm actually curious for for me to try and understand a little bit more about about your perspective. Right? Because you joined you signed up for the military yourself. Okay. So what made you do that? Why why why were you drawn to that? I, I play the euphonium. I played, not play. I haven't picked it up since I left the army because it kinda killed my passion for music. But the euphonium is like a small tuber, and there's not very many professional opportunities for the euphonium. It's basically the military or the police band. And, the army really chased me to to recruit me for a position, and I I just went I I was finishing uni. I did music in ancient history. I didn't have any options, and I was like, alright. Oh, I thought I'd be in uniform at some point, so might as well give it a go. So that's why. And then they were used you in the in the battlefield. I mean, I never heard the cry, you know, incoming euphonium. So that's why every every no matter what you do, everyone has to do basic training so you can always be called up. But, where the musicians are part of the, you know, the the community that lift the spirits. Right? So but Right. The the second Iraq war Gulf war was supposed to be taking off when I was in basic training, and we were all put on alert that with there was a potential. So it's not it wasn't yeah. That would not have been a good good thing. So yeah. I don't think they they handle the euphonium very well over there. You could beat someone to death with it. It's a chunky metal thing. Okay. So we got we got the we got the, the white lady sends her white children to Anna's story out of the way. Let's talk about the rest of the day. Oh, man. I was trying to explain today at at this event. Oh, by the way, I don't I don't normally dress, you know, like a Ronny Chieng. He does. He does. Don't let him bluff you. Yeah. I was at a at a at a at a New Year celebration, Chinese New Year celebration thing at a friend's office. And, someone asked me what what what the show is about. And I said, well, we're gonna try to give an update on everything that's been happening in the world in terms of geopolitics, the, economy, and also the environment. And I I said that we've been off the air for quite a while, so we're gonna try and summarize all of that in one show. And Yeah. They said, you can do that? I said, no. There's no way we can do that. We barely can do it. We've got two weeks apart. Now we're, like, two months for the for the break. This is, like, being in the the latest season. That's fantastic. Especially when you got the, especially when you got that that that creator in chief, at the heart of it all. Right? I mean, that's just the the the craziness of it all. It's, it's TikTok by presidency. Right? Yeah. I didn't know who we were talking about then. I thought we're talking about Andrea, actually, for the first level. Like, curator in chief. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Not creator. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, look. We we're gonna do things a little bit differently, a little bit more freewheeling. So, basically, before Trump, obviously, was inaugurated and since, I've been keeping a very close eye on what's going on. And, we've you know, the title is we've flooded the zone has been flooded with shit, which is obviously a a Steve Bannon line. And, bizarrely, he said a couple of things that I've agreed with in the last few months, which is kind of bizarre to me. But it really has. And everyone I'm talking to is just so overwhelmed by what's going on, and they're just completely checking out, which to me is even more dangerous that we're checking out. We've gotta be we've gotta get checked in because, this story is so much bigger than most people understand. And I'm finding the media coverage and a lot of the leading thinkers that I've been following for a very long time, I don't think they're grasping the complexity of this story either. And, some sometimes I'll I'll listen to someone I've been listening to for years, and I'm really I'm like, is that really your takeaway? Wow. Okay. Underestimating what's going on, not really understanding who we should be looking at. You know? Everyone's looking at Trump, but I don't I don't know if that's the right way place to, you know, put our eyes. I think we're in another I started my weekend reads a few weeks ago, and I said we've got a failure of imagination, and I was really talking about planetary crisis, but I think what we're in now is another failure of imagination. It's where we could possibly go. So, you know, I think we've got the big show that's going on, the big media show, and it's, you know, executive order, executive order, executive order, and everyone's like, oh, and emotions are are running high, and a lot of the commentary is very emotional. And I I we understand that, especially from people in America. Then then you've got the real work that's being done behind the scenes, which is often not in the media and not getting any attention. And of course, then you've got the global sort of response to it. And, you know, for us, we're all sitting outside of The United States looking at this. And I know a lot of people in The United States who are talking to us, they're having a an interesting experience. A lot of people feel incredibly embarrassed about being American, which, you know and and I think that's been a feeling that's been growing for a long time. But, yeah, people our friends in the in The US are really suffering and, don't like what's being done. So it's intellectually fascinating, morally terrifying, you know, but, I think there's a lot that we need to be considering here. So what what about you guys when you sort of think of just these last sort of, you know, two months, I suppose, even two weeks. Well, okay. So the the the the the thing is, first of all, I think our perspective of many people's perspective of things comes really from the media. Right? Some as in, like like, people who are trying to create content. Now this includes, mainstream media. But, you know, so so it's not just about, people trying to get attention, and ex just to explain the way things. Right? They're they're they're actually they they have the objective of trying to get an audience. So I I I think what we see sometimes is this is this flummoxed kind of reaction from the side, and and it's designed to be not fully, you don't want it to to to to spoil the the the magic of the story if you like. Right? I mean, if you can fully understand why the other side is doing it and you can explain it, then what you do is you lose the room. You lose the people who want to come to watch that particular thing happening. Right? So I I think what we see actually is a kind of, it's a kind of laziness in the sense that, a lot of traditional media, even as they put the the the the word out, few of the people in traditional media are actually doing the serious deep work. So, I I think more people understand the big picture than people who are willing to say they understand the big picture. I think if you understood the big picture, you are forced to come to a conclusion that some of this makes sense. And that's something which is I I think it's frightening for for anyone in the media or a media owner in The US, especially, to come to terms with. Right? You you have to pick a side so much in The US that if you show the slightest, sign of being on the other side or being open to it, you get practically canceled. Right? I don't I don't even remember the name of the of the of the democrat, senator, the guy who's famous for coming up showing up in shorts and all that stuff as well. I mean, he's he's a he's a democrat, but he's open, and he's getting all kinds of of of of pushback, as well. And that's just for having, you know, an openness to what might be going on and to try to see where where you know, to to to to to try and see where they wanna go and see if they can help make it make it a better world. Was it John Fetterman? Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Joe, I I I'm I'm with you. Like, it's not just America. Right? You look around the world. Look what's going on in Europe and the elections. Not not in this region, thankfully, but, apart from, obviously, Myanmar. But, there is a failing, a a big failing, and something radical needs to change. And there is radical change happening, but is it the right type of radical change? You know? There so that's that's the thing. It's like, you know, like, a lot of people are talking about, oh, is Trump gonna boot Musk out? And I I I don't even think that's on the table. Like, if anyone's gonna get booted booted out, it's Trump. Because once they get in, once they get established, like, Trump is just just a figurehead. Right? He he obviously brought his MAGA supporters with him, but I think he's the one that's at at the highest risk, and it would be very easy for them to push him out. And Vance comes in and takes over, and we know that he's a a, you know, Peter Thiel is a supporter behind Vance. They put him in in power. Right? So the people I'm looking at keeping an eye on is obviously Elon Musk and trying to understand what he's doing. And it's very difficult to understand what's going on. Right? We hear some stuff, you know, the USAID stuff, but it's really hard. So Peter Thiel, then there's Brian Armstrong, Ben Horowitz, Mark Andreessen, David Sachs, and there's another guy called Balaji Shrivasten. And Yep. The philosopher is this guy called Curtis Yavin, and they call him the philosopher, the prophet, and Lord Yavin. Now all of these people have been talking about exactly what's happening right now for a very, very long time. It's not a it's an open secret. Right? They've been talking about what they plan to do if they get if they have the opportunity. So, you know, one of them is to create thousands of sovereign mini mini countries or mini mini cities. And, one of them you might have heard is Praxis, which is a custom built city, and it's basically gonna be run by corporations as government. Crypto will be the currency, and there's no place for the poor. Right? You can apply to be a resident, a virtual resident of Praxis right now. So it's an opt in society. And, the basically, the message that they've been saying for a long time is as nation states fail and as you've got the planetary collapse that we're seeing happening, you know, nation states are failing, network stakes become the inevitable, which to me, it's sort of it's a bit of a Mad Max sort of vision, but with nice look nicer looking cities. You know? So, but this guy have you guys before I tell talk about the butterfly butterfly revolution, have you guys heard of have you been heard of all of these guys? Because sometimes when I say their names, most people go who apart from Elon Musk. Well, you know, I'll I'll I'll face up to saying, for me, the names specifically, ring a a who reply for me. But the the concepts, are are not far from from what I think about. Like, I I mean, before I go into where I lean, you know, I'll I'll talk about the the the ideas not being foreign to me, some of the ideas being spoken about or discussed. Mhmm. Yeah. But but I I I I've been I've I've got a, like, I've got a take on this, which I I was telling you was was either gonna to to get me canceled again or, you know, promoted to some some kind of, role in the cabinet for The US at some point. Yeah. Well, you can have your own little city state. Augustine Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I already live my life that way. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So okay. So this guy, Yavin. Right? So, Curtis Yavin, Lord Yavin. So he's got this, concept which they call the butterfly revolution. So there's, I think, seven or eight, campaign, things. So the first is campaign on autocracy, and we all heard Donald Trump say, I'll be a dictator on day one only. Right? But, you know, the the message is always that you're gonna destroy the an inefficient and broken system that's at the center of the message, which we've heard time and time again. Next is purge the democracy, and they use the the acronym RAGE, retire all government employees. So, you know, Trump plans to dismantle the deep state, and then long term planning, with employment opportunities. So they call it the the LinkedIn page for project twenty twenty five. So there's this page where you can go for government jobs, but you've gotta obviously show that you're you're you're a true believer, and they also do training to get you ready for those drops. Right? So number three, ignore the courts. And, obviously, the supreme court ruling, with with presidential immunity sort of makes this all possible. And we saw what what's what's the guy on the supreme court who's Clarence Thomas and his wife were in the in the, in the Oval Office, I think, just yesterday. This next one is co opt con congress. So only picked leaders loyal to you. We're seeing that. Centralized police and government powers, shut down elite media and academic institutions, and, you know, Trump's calling the universities hostile places. And I don't know if you've run I I I I really love my history, but when when Persia fell, the first people to go or be persecuted were the intellectuals and the academics, so it's not a good sign. And then, of course, in the media, a lot of people are still talking about the fake media and all that sort of stuff. Peep journalists have lost their jobs if they're not Trump approved media. They've left their jobs. But, also, there's basically almost no left leaning media left in in The US and anything like, we've seen Politico. They've come up in the USAID, the funding that they've been getting. So that's that's gonna be out. So, you know, so the left leaning media, so the other opinion, the the anyone that's gonna challenge what's going on, they've already been pretty much squashed. Right? And that's not that's not good for any of us if you believe in democracy. And then, of course, the final thing is turn out your people. So we've got the January, and those insurrections have been freed. So why would you why would you free them? And the police unions turned against Trump because of that, but you're gonna centralize the police and the government powers. So what's what's gonna happen there? You know? There's just within that. There's there could be quite a revolution. So that's the butterfly what is it? The butterfly plan revolution. So that's if you if you look at what's happening, that's what's happening. So it's it's quite radical. Yeah. Well, you see, the thing is who loses? Yeah. What what what I see when I when I when I hear about something like this, right, is is what we're trying to do is we're trying to we also try to see what fits so that we can go like, this describes that, that describes this, or whatever it is. Right? So there there is a kind of overlap happening in terms of what is conveniently falling within the plan, the the the prescription of things. And then there's also you know, it's like, if if there's a there's a confluence really in terms of outcomes or desired outcomes for both sides. And for me, I I I think Trump isn't playing the book, but he's allowing the game to play this way because it's the way to win the game. Right? So he's here to to change the game or change the rules of the game so he can win the game, and he's not particularly concerned about the game after he's done winning the game. Right? He's he that that's that's the kind of, perspective that I that I see with that. The the people that you talk about there, so, you know, Musk being one of them, they want to change the game. They really, really want to upset the board. They really believe it. And I think why they all came out with Trump this time is because they finally found the one vehicle that was going to enable this thing. Right? So if if you talk about if if you talk about everything they were talking about before, about about the the the whole reset, about, what they wanted to do, you saw it and understood their frustration and said, this is no way this is gonna happen. There's no way this can happen. And Trump literally is that once in a lifetime Yep. Personality, character, politician, that provides that opportunity where this could happen. And so we're where we are right now. You know? I I I was looking at all the money that was coming in and people talking about why would someone wanna do that. It really is about that. It's it's it's and and it's not necessarily and this is the part where people may agree vehemently with me about this. It's not necessarily for them to be able to do evil. It's, you know, it's it's about them wanting to do what they think should be the right way things are being done. You know, if I I I I I posed this question today to someone. I said, okay. Let's let's just try and pretend all this isn't Trump. Right? All this is no Elon Musk in it. Let's try and pretend that, Obama began some of these processes, immediately after he came to power. And instead of trying to get the consensus going, he said, let's let's let's pretend Obama comes into office coming in on yes, we can and says says, let's make America great again. Yes, we can. And how do we do this? We're gonna do some of these things. We're gonna push really hard in these directions. It feels very different. It feels like a different story because when when when Obama did that, he Obama also get got into office because he was railing against how things were and then became how things were. Right? Yeah. So, you know, that that's the kind of thing that I that I that I that I that I get people to think about. I go, like, there really is something to it as in, like, you know, the conditions or the need for something radical to happen were there before someone said, yeah. This this this radical, like, this radical solution or this radical possibility might be the way to do it. Now where they are right now is really messy. I don't think it's fantastic at all because, you know, the but at the same time, there's some questions that that I I've I've asked people to think about. Right? So, there's a there's a meme that's going around right now about Trump calling him the criminal in chief. Right? I think COTUS. I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to stand for, but, the and I and I said, well, think about this idea right now. So you have these people who are trying to reboot. They're trying to get everything to start again. I mean, it's it's it's it's crazy that you would do this. Right? The idea that you would bring in young people. I mean, there are some of the people that that that have come in to to execute, what's happening in government, for instance. They're just really young people. And I said, okay. Let's let's let's go back in time and go to the founding of The United States as we know it. Right? First of all, who were those people? Right? And the name that would have been used to describe them as a group? Criminals. You know, they broke the law. They stole an administration from somebody else who was in charge, and they created their own stuff. How old were they? They're they're not the gray old men that we kind of imagine politics is about. They were young folks. They were some young, idealistic, men who wanted to get things done, and they got it going. And what did they do? They rebooted. They actually did something new again, and they knew it was gonna go wrong. They knew that things were gonna have to change. They that it wasn't a perfect anything. But that's what the kind of we're doing as well. Right? So if we if we can change a little bit of a of of of our perspectives and try and imagine different characters, there's something about what's going on that is actually right because it's it's upsetting something that isn't right either. Mhmm. Two things come to mind. Yep. Two things come to mind. One, Andrea, when you were talking about, how he's playing I think you were talking about how he was playing to win. And was it you talking about it or is that with Joe at the beginning? I don't know. But he was talking about, how Trump's playing to win, doesn't really care about the rules so much, he just wants to win, and and set it up for for part two, whatever that is. So in the current system and rules, there is no part two for him, but it seems like the rules are changing. It reminded me immediately when when you're talking about how he's playing to win by rewriting the rules of a a Star Trek episode. And, no, it was a Star Trek movie. I think where Kirk, it's, Kirk wins the no win scenario, in the, Kobayashi Maru scene, I guess. They they go through a training simulator, and it's designed for the captain to try everything but still lose so that they can face the feeling of impending defeat and death and know what that feels like. But he, he rewrites the program. He he hacks into the program and rewrites it so he can win, and that was him thinking about how to that he had to win. That he it was like, there has to be a solution, and the solution was to rewrite the program. Another thing that actually came to mind while you were talking about it was the politics seems to be backwards and forwards between these two parties who continually spend an awful lot of taxpayers money and government effort undoing what the last administration did and putting in their own flavor of what the world is supposed to what what America is supposed to be like and what the world is supposed to be like, you know, made in America's image. And then the next administration comes in and goes, no. It's like this. And then they they do it and they just been doing that for ages that in one sense, it does make sense that somebody goes, okay, this has gotta stop and we kinda need to go, what do we really want this to look like? And we need to do that together. Unfortunately, they can't do it together because there's so there's so much animosity or or the group is the the group has decided, we don't want to do it together and let's go in and rewrite the rules so we can win and make the other party irrelevant. Could be. And they've got a special mandate for the next two years where they run everything. They have all the votes everywhere that they can pretty much do whatever they like in a sense, so long as they've they've they're enacting a a plan, it seems. And what it does feel like is that there've been a lot of plans drawn up over the last four years when they've been out of office. Mhmm. And that's why there's this tsunami of of of change happening now because they got two years to bed it down before if the elections happen. Yeah. Those you know, the the what? The house and the senate have have half of their people up for reelection. So, it but, you know, if you're running it if you're brought in as a CEO of a business and that business has been flip flopping between two different strategies for the longest time and quite frankly underperforming and sliding down, that the new CEO needs to come in and make a decision about how that strategy of flip flopping can't happen anymore, and and we need to have a a particular course of action. What's scary is that we don't know what the course of action is until we see it playing out, and then we're in confusion of the storm. But like you rightly said, there's a lot of people behind the scenes that you're trying to pay attention to and not pay attention to the the roof blowing off a house, but pay attention to which way the storm is moving. So, there's a bit of work here, but I can understand why something needs to change. And I I listened to his inauguration speech, which was, you know, sort of outlining what he was gonna do and how he was gonna do it, and then sort of rallying everyone with a sort of motivating cry. But he really did there was an element of it where I mean, Joe talked about Obama. Obama created a sense of certainty amidst chaos when he gave people the hope that change was possible, and and it was built on his strength of calm amidst the storm. Obama had this this amazing sense of peace when he delivered and then a sense of authority that it was possible. Trump is doing kind of the same thing except without the peace part. He's coming across the sense of authority, but from a tough guy bullying sort of approach rather than the Obama sort of calm approach. And so that as he was saying, it was it was like and, of course, as any change manager knows, the most important thing when you've rallied the troops that we're gonna implement this change, the most important thing is creating a sense of urgency and delivering quick wins. And and so a lot of people going, he's just playing to his supporters and everything else. But, actually, he's also communicating to the rest of the nation that everything he said, he's starting to do it. And and those so I don't know if they're quick wins yet, but they're certainly quick actions. So it's it's fascinating to watch. I'm not necessarily agreeing with it. I'm just I'm observing it, trying not to get emotionally involved in the whole storm, and trying to sort of see what's happening here. Yeah. I think that's a good idea not to get emotionally involved in the whole storm. So, Joe, you sort of said, you know, that you don't necessarily think they're evil. So we we have always needed the world to understand that we need to radically transform how we run things, but it was never gonna happen easily, you know, and especially when we when we've loved democracy for as long as we have. Right? If Trump had have been elected for a second term in back four years ago, I don't think we'd be in this situation, but I think you're absolutely right. It's the right time. He's the he's the unique person that can be take this forward. Right? But when you listen to some of this stuff like this Yavin guy and some of the other people saying, you know, they'll they'll they'll make jokes. The pool will be biofuel for the energy needed for these new cities. Right? So the this idea that this very, very small group of predominantly white men are defining the future without wider consultation. So some of those young guys, the 19 to 24 year olds, one of them just had to resign because it turns out he's a massive racist, a eugenicist, and all sorts of things. Right? And he had this social media history that goes back, and it was it was hidden, but somebody found it or something. Right? I'm not surprised that these aren't charming young men. You can't do something like that, but we don't know what they're doing. We don't we we do we do know what they're doing, but we don't know what they're actually doing right now, and we don't know what the consequences will be on how long it's gonna take. But we also don't know who's gonna lose. Right? We don't. Not yet from from from the decisions. But from everything I've seen, there's there's a massive group within society that does not get factored into this future vision that they're planning. So, you know and these are the what what do they call them? The ultra no. What was the the term that Musk or Teal said we need these, ultra high status males. I mean, you two aren't ultra high status males by that definition. Right? Even though I think you're you know? You know? But you're not. Right? So but they're defining your future too, and I think that's the other thing people have gotta really switch into. It's like, who's defining our future, and do they do they represent me? Like, am I I I like, me, personally, I know that we need to radically change the world and how we operate in order to deal deal with the crises we have, But I don't believe that they're the team that are gonna deliver that. I don't. I I would agree with you. I think they're the they're the you you send out a bunch of pawns to to make a mess, and then you send out the bigger the bigger pieces on the chessboard. Mhmm. And usually I mean, I don't know. Maybe maybe they can make some maybe they can make some decisions, but, but, you know and and speaking of pawns and chessboards, you're wondering why it's all the young young people going in to do these sorts of things. They've got opportunity ahead and nothing much to lose. Yeah. And and the generals stay in the background sometimes as you send out your your young troops into the battlefield. For Musk. Right? He's certainly not in the background. He's not in the background. Yeah. A lot of people are sort of going cowing, you know, in Australia. Tesla sales are down 60% in France. It's 63% in Germany. But I I I I again, I think people are missing the bigger picture. Like, it's it's you know, they they they're talking about making the entire government run by AI. And now they're they're they can do that now. Right? They they absolutely can do that. Right? But what happens to the people who've been in those roles? And, you know, people are like, we're voting for freedom. Where's your freedom? Because this is a surveillance state, and everything's digital. You know? So, yeah, there's a lot to this. Well, I mean, if that if that playbook played out, then there's revolution. And I don't think in their in their sort of, Augustinville scenario of a of a little of little town run by, you know, whoever has applied and is wealthy enough to be in it, who's who's in the militia? Yep. I mean, you know, is that being hired out to is there some sort of it I think it's poorly thought out. If that's the plan, it's fully thought out. So so so let's let's talk about what what is on the, other utopian side of it. So the old alternate alternate utopia. Right? So we we we talk about it in in the sense of a world where people lose lose their jobs and and and and all that stuff happens. But so the the the the the the utopian view on what happens when we all become redundant is then we get to live our lives, you know, whatever. There's there's always a challenge because we, you know, we talk about the the the the lack of imagination, Andrea. There there is also sometimes a lack of imagination on the other side as well about how life could be. Right? I mean, how would you imagine, rallying troops? So so you you done the movie Wall E? You remember that show? That that that whole imagining about where they don't have to worry about a life. Right? It was hard to rally the people to do anything because they didn't need to do anything. Right? Life is good. Say, well well, you need to stand up and fight for this because your opinion matters and all that kind of stuff. And and you go like, and what's the alternative? Well, I get to sit here and enjoy my drinks and food gets served to me all the time. Yeah. Tough choice. So and and that that that representation of humanity is however your humanity is right now. Right. I mean, the and and and so the the the question now comes if if if you think about, I I I don't think that's what we we talk about The US. I don't think that's the life The US has. The US actually has a lot of people who are wealthy and an even greater number of people who are not. You know, there's a whole bunch of people who are not doing well, to the point where they said, let's let's let's bet it all on black. You know? Yeah. And let's see what happens when we when we run this, this this this next thing. So that's kind of the situation. Orange, Jenny. Orange orange the new black? There you go. And I did. How did you do that? It's nice to work with her. Another movie future vision, of course, was her. Do you remember watching her? It was Scarlett Johansson's voice. Right? I remember watching that and just thinking that's that's it. Now as men in the future, you're gonna be wearing very high waisted pants according to the movie. But it, to me, like, you know waist down just a little bit. Here we go. Yeah. Yoak and Phoenix's character, he wrote let's love letters for people. You know, that was his job. You know? That's something machines couldn't do. And and but, yeah, there's there's no utopia on horizon from where I'm sitting, but I I think we can work as hard towards it as possible, but I don't believe that utopia is possible. But there's also a dystopian side. Right? So the I think from both both perspectives, I I try and follow the the path on on either side. And I feel that the it's the dystopian path where it's it's not good for the majority. And if you're a eugenicist like that young guy is, right, so you you will be one of the people that say the planetary crisis is because there's too many people in the world, and therefore, we need to get rid of people. And, well, you don't really have to do much for that to happen. You just need to make sure that they don't cross borders and stay where they are, and they live in places where there's no food or it's too hot to survive or, you know, they're ravaged by disease, pandemics, whatever. So, you know, just have you could just have that attitude to it all. And you'll you'll get rid of a lot of people very, very quickly, you know, those sort of ideas. I know people have them. Yeah. No. And so and this is why it becomes this this, you know, impossible choice. When you go, like, there there there's something about that, but we know while that is going to lead to a better result for for for a number of people, it also is bad for other people, or it is ignoring the other person. Right? So it's it's the ultimate trolley kind of, problem. If if you if you look at humanity as a whole, have we come too far? So even from a from a from an environmental perspective. Right? Arguably, we have come too far where we have overstayed our welcome. We we we we we shouldn't belong here anymore. We should be rejected from this planet. Right? That's that's really what we've done, but we're we're insisting on staying for dessert. Right? So that's that's kind of a thing to think about as well. Like, like, if in is there an ideal world where there are enough resources for everyone, and could we figure out a way to get that? It would be a lot more convenient if we had done all the work twenty years ago and successfully worked on things like rightsizing populations and and and and and and, you know, putting aid out in the right direction and doing all the stuff so that everybody is happy and so you have less of a of a discrepancy. But now we're here. We're we're we're we're basically we're locusts. Right? If you think about how that works is that we are all here, we all need food, and we're doing it at such great speed. Everything that's in the way gets eaten, even fellow locusts. Right? I mean, that's that's that's really where we are. So It's like the it's like the overshoots it's like the overshoot story where there's a whole bunch of deer on this island, and and they were dropped on this island in World War two. Can't remember. It's up up near Greenland. And, first of all, they they kept going back and they were flourishing. And then they came back and they were getting skinny and there were too many of them, and the grass was getting low. And then the final time they went back, they were eating the roots. So once you're eating the roots, you're on the way to extinction. Right? So humanity is eating the roots now. You know, that's the overshoot sort of sort of idea. But there is a way to live on this planet in harmony with the amount of people that we have, but we're not willing to do that. And we're not even willing to talk about it. And, you know, we're just taking, consuming more and more and more, but we can do that. But that it's like that fight's too big to win, so So this small group of people have decided on this other fight. So we you know, when they talk about taking Greenland, and everyone's like, oh, this is sovereign nation. Of course, they're gonna of course, they're looking to take Greenland. You you wanna grab all the land up north you can. Where where are they gonna build these cities? On on these places where the ice is gonna melt and there's gonna be some land to build on. Right? Of course of course, that's on the agenda. This is my this is my this is just my take on the stories. Right? Yeah. Of course. It's for minerals and stuff, but it it's you gotta we're gonna have the the the sea creatures are moving north or south. You know? The the animals are I mean, the trees are moving north. You know? So north is north is where it's gonna be at. Right? So, of course, they're gonna look at taking, more land up north. Canada, the fifty one fifty first state, of course, it's up north. You know? They're not they're not trying to take Mexico. You know? Why would you do that? Gotta go north. Right? But yeah. I mean yeah. Should we should we should we should we move the conversation along to the rest of what we have to talk about today? There's just so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, obviously, the other big thing that's happening is the war on diversity, equality, and inclusion. And I've heard, Peter Dutton in Australia. Australian Elections are gonna be soon, inclusion. And I've heard, Peter Dutton in Australia. Australian Elections are gonna be soon. He's starting to bring up the whole d DEI thing. And, you know, like, we talked about it last year. There was a war on woke. And after this election, I think we've recognized that woke lost. But like I said, this idea that high status males can define our future without inclusion, diversity, and equality in the mix, that's kind of, you know, not a future I really wanna be part of. I don't know about you guys. Well, I've I've I've I think of it this way. Right? I mean, you you know, there's there's in families, there you you have different people you like to visit and some people you don't like to visit. There's some people, who you whose house you get into and you can't move around because you're not free to do things. You can't first of all, you've got to leave your shoes outside or and you can't touch the flowers, and you've got to have all these you know, that that that's that sort of thing. And I and I think that's what happened with Woke. Right? We became auntie Karen. We became the the the one who knew how things were supposed to be done, and therefore, you have to do this this way or that way. You know, and then it became this thing about pronouns. You know, it it became this thing where you were not safe where you previously were just being a nice person. Right? The things that you were doing just to be nice were wrong, and the things that you were doing to be nice were now not just described as wrong, but they were described as aggressions. And if they were kind about it, microaggressions. Mhmm. You know, that that sort of that sort of thing really drives people nuts. So the the the the the this thing about mental health, for instance. Right? I I I think what happened, it became harder to be a human being Yeah. Because of all the rules that society kind of, said, okay. You know, these are the new rules right now. So people would yeah. And it I always felt it was ridiculous to have someone kinda have to to to to kinda pull you aside and say, oh, you know, you can't you can't say that anymore. And I go, why? And then go like, well, because it's it's it's you you you just you just can't. Right? And you go like, you know, whatever. So it's it's it's I I understood I can understand why there was such, such such such fervor around pushing back because the brand of it, I think, is what, upset people. I said, like, when when people talk about, diversity, inclusion, and equity, right, in in I I I think there's a kind of brand of that happening actually on the other side as well as in, like, they are a a a whole group of people who've been underserved, who've been looked down upon, who've been intellectually, you know, the the the the they've been they've been looked as lesser people because of what they believed and what they did and what they find to be to be to be valuable. So that there's there's actually a pushback on it. Right? So, you know, as as much as DEI as a concept is good, but DEI has to be practiced universally for it to be seen as fair. So if you are gonna to to to to bring on DEI and, you you you then ask the question I mean, this I'll I'll put it in a very unsavory way, but, you know, where's my redneck who's making my spaceship? You know? I'm not there. You don't you don't represent it as well. So that's that's something to to think about as well. It's about if you have a nice idea, but it's implemented unfairly or in a way that seems unfair, then it's not gonna work. If you if you tell me that DEI is gonna be something that's gonna be good for for everyone, but it really in it it really actually is good for people who've gone to university, then that's not right either. You know? It's it's just it's it's something there's there's there's there's so much more to it, I always feel. It's just not as simple as saying this concept this this concept is flawed or that's whatever. There there are things happening there. And and what's happening right now is not what I think is the ideal situation either. Mhmm. But I think it was enabled by the overreaching practices of those who just thought, I know better. Listen to me. This is the way it's supposed to be done. And it just got a bit crazy. And and and it just you just have to do that often enough, and someone snaps. Yeah. It's like you go one extreme to the other extreme. You've gotta find our way in the middle and, you know, the way quotas the way quotas worked. Right? People are always pushing back on it. And I I spoke to loads and loads and loads of guys who suffered under DEI. And some of them were the biggest champions of DEI, and yet they still suffered, and that that was painful. I think that the the journey to failure began with the Me Too movement. While it began as a really, really, really positive thing, where women were finally able to express what had been happening, it very quickly turned into a negative thing because I I remember hosting a a a women's panel at a at a bank and, some really, really interesting ladies on this panel. But before we started, I asked the room, and they're all VPs in in some of the world's biggest banks. I said, has anyone changed the way they behave with their female colleagues at work since this has come up? And, one guy put his hand up. He goes, I don't take any females out for lunch or drinks or dinner. I'm never I I never get myself into a situation where it's one on one. And I'm like, well, that's not good. You know? That's that's not progress. You know? That's going backwards. So, it it it wasn't right. And, you know, like, I keep saying to everyone, you can say whatever you ever you hell you want now, you know, because cancel culture is over too. Right? But respect and decency at the core of things. And I I I just, you know, I just wanna make sure that everyone gets the opportunity to live their life to the fullest that they can live and express their talents regardless of who they are, what sex they are. But the other thing that we've really got a you know, the whole transgender thing, the one thing we've really got to bloody put in the mix of this is because there's so many endocrine disruptors in the environment, right, so, forever chemicals, microplastics, as well as pharmaceuticals, right, they're not only changing the sex of of, like, fish, there's these, eagles or one one of the one of those sort of predator birds in Spain, they're only giving birth to female eggs now. When it gets too hot. So that's a different thing, but when it gets too hot, the turtles, there are the male or they're female because those sound so hot. Right. But we've got so many endocrine disruptors and it's our shampoos is our food. It's in our takeaway containers. It's in all of this sort of stuff. So there is more people being born with their end with their hormones being disrupted. So we're gonna have more people like that in the world at a time when the world's saying we're not gonna tolerate that. And that's something that really, really concerns me. So we're polluting our environment. We're polluting our bodies. We're changing our own sex by doing it. We're going to have more transgender people. And rather than everyone saying, oh, it's just the young kids. They're being influenced on TikTok. No. Their body's chemistry is being changed because we're polluting the environment. And now we're saying we're not tolerating that. And so to me, that's a that's a a a huge concern from a societal perspective. You know? The amount of youth suicide rates will will go up. You know? I just saw the other day a young girl, a young girl who transitioned, committed suicide because she just couldn't see any hope for her future. Right? So that that sort of stuff really worries me. And, you know, are these people who are designing our future world, are they empathetic? Are they compassionate? Are they thinking about these sort of things? You know? Or are they How old was that young girl? I I just saw a photo. Maybe 17, 18. K. But but that's gonna be that's gonna be an issue if you don't feel like you're welcome in the world as you are, and your whole life's gonna be a battle. Right? So the the the the question I have about this is so I I I when I when I when I when I when I get online because I I've told you before, I've just gone into into mega groups just to try to to to to figure out who they are. I've gone into, black, mega groups. I've gone into, Spanish mega groups as well. All this on TikTok, by the way. Just to have a a a a look see, What's what's being described isn't exactly what is being interpreted on on on the other side as well. You know, in terms of it's it's not that the it's not that trans isn't welcome. It's not that, the the the the the lifestyle or whatever it is isn't welcome. It's it's it's the it's the I I think what it is is the it's the imposition of that that isn't welcome. As in, you know, sure, everybody can be a little strange. I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm a little strange in the way I do things as well. And just because I need everyone to to speak, more factually about things, I can't insist that everyone else do the same as well. I can't say that just because you're speaking in a way which is emotional, that I should shut you down because you're not being factual enough. That's not the way it works. And then the people who are used to speaking, for instance, emotionally, they're they're all they're they're they're all being told that, no. No. No. You have to you have to change the way you do this. You're gonna have to do this. So now instead of saying, I feel unhappy, you have to go, like, well, there are a few things happening in my in my system right now. Hormonally, I think I'm challenged. It's just after lunch, so I think I had a drop in sugar. And and and therefore, I'm feeling a sense of disquiet, and therefore, I feel unhappy. I mean, it it it's that kind of thing that that that causes a pushback because I I I I really don't get the sense when I'm in those groups that they're anti those things. That that that they're not anti as in, like, you know, I I I I I I see them as really human beings to just wanna get along in an easier, more fluid way. They just wanna get along. Now are there extreme examples of people in that group? Yeah. Of course. That that that is the problem in in society in general, like the ultra so the ultra right, just like the ultra left, you know, the the the the people who will go and consider, you know, terrorism to do the right thing, to achieve the right thing. Yep. That's the ultra left as well. So I I think what's really, been divisive about this is that we've been painting the other side on either side. We've been painting the other side with the extreme colors of what exists on the other side. And so you're not just someone who is sick of having to do things by all these little nitty gritty rules. Why can't I just go out and have some fun with some friends? Why can't I just have a colleague, a a female colleague who I'm really friends with and give her a hug when I feel like I wanna give her a hug. And why why you know, that that that sort of thing. I think that's that's really what begins to happen. And and there's some there's some refinement that needs to go into it as well. The solution can't be like if the in the example of the the weird example I gave, a while ago. The solution can't be that, therefore, everyone else needs to change. You go like, well, maybe is there another way we can do this? Is there another way that we can try and have less of an impact than everybody when Joe enters the room? Yeah. The, the male female dynamic that that's always been a like, I remember my PR days in London. Right? We were absolutely outrageously inappropriate with each other, and, everyone was cool with it. The issue comes, and it's always the issue. There's there's the creep in every office who hassles the the females who can't, speak up for themselves. Right? And they know exactly who those girls are, and they go after them. Right? That's that's where the problem has always been. But the problem is blokes have taken it as, oh my god. We must all be the problem. You know, when when when we were swimming in a our pool, in a condo when the boys were small, my husband's there with his hands he's literally in the in the pool with his hands in the air like this so that nobody accuses him of touching the children. And I I was like, that sucks that you you feel that you have to do that, but that's the world that we've moved into. You know? Men are dropping out of education like mad. Of course. Why would you wanna go into education? And, you know, what what does it take to be accused of doing the wrong thing? You know? And and our children have suffered, especially the male children, because they haven't got the the role models that they used to have. I'm really happy with the education my boys get because there's still lots of male teachers. But, yeah, I mean, we we we got it wrong. You know? And Mhmm. But but we don't need to throw it all out. We just need to be honest about what we got wrong, and that's what people don't wanna they don't wanna have the honest conversations about anything anymore. You know? But I want my boys to go into a workforce and have fun and, you know, I mean, we've we've got that sort of relationship. When when you guys see me, you don't have you don't have to hold back. You don't think, oh, Andrew is gonna go and talk to someone if if I do the wrong thing. You know, I'm not going to because we respect each other. Right? But we've gotta take care of the vulnerable people. And every single female knows who the creeps are, and they're the problem. But all males have been tarnished with the creep brush, and they're not. And I always say there's a 70% magic rule. Right? We need to reduce our impact on Earth by 70%. But also 70% of the global population are decent people. We might be a little bit left to build a little bit right, but we're decent people who wanna get on with things. And on either end, 15% left, fifteen% right are the extreme ones. They got the biggest voices. They create the most social disruption, you know, whether it's the anti vax protests or the anti COVID lockdown protests or or, you know, all, you know, when you were talking about, you know, eco terrorism tends to come from the left, not necessarily from the right, but there are also eco terrorists on the right, you know. But those 30%, they've been running the world for too long. And the 70% are sitting there going, what do we do? Or disappearing or saying, I can't bear this anymore. And we need to we need to get the 70% together and solidified again and moving in the same direction. But we need to agree that direction versus having this group of people telling us what that direction is. So, you know, that's that's what I'm fighting for. How do we bring that 70% forward? You know? How do we have an on honest conversation? I'm I'm so sick of the bullshit. I'm so sick of the the politicizer. You know, we're talking about transgender. It's all politicization, especially in the US election. You know? Like, we talked about it once. You know? There was one one transgender surgery in the prison in one year over, like, an eight year one. And it was, like, a big big issue. It's like, but there's only one of them. How can that be a big issue? Women women's sports. You know? Like, that's why don't we let women in sport decide what's right? If the women don't want, transgender athletes, that's then that's the that's on them. It's for it's not for somebody else to decide. You know? Like yeah. But but well, hang on. I mean, is it men deciding for that one? Well well, yeah, Trump's just come out and said no more. Yeah. But he's he's said it because because it's a political It's been weaponized politically. Yes. Totally. Totally. But, I mean, just because he's making their final call, I mean, it doesn't mean that women aren't saying we don't want transgender in our sport. And it should never be in a political conversation. Devil's advocate. I don't have Yeah. The evidence of it, but I would yeah. Yeah. And he's he's the one that can make the decision, and he just happens to be orange. But, but it doesn't mean that women haven't sort of said we need some changes here. I mean, I think if you'd ask that boxer that was in the ring, she'd I I know. I don't wanna go back there again, but she's still transgender. I I get it, but the that was the narrative, and Yeah. And she would have gone, I don't want it. You know? So Yeah. So if that's the decision, so what where where's the space for transgender athletes to compete? You know? Transgender Olympics. We got Paralympics. Right. Let's let's, you know, find a solution. You know? People wanna be the best at sport, and, it's not it's not fair for them to for for transgender for for men who've crossed over to women. And I don't know if I'm using the right phrases or terminology. I don't know either. But, I mean, it it makes a lot of sense to me that if you wanna create a new sort of gender classification, then you should have your new Olympics. And they're supposed to be and and they're supposed to be five genders. You know? No. Apparently, we're down to two, but there's supposed to be five natural human genders. Right? So but yeah. So the other, obviously yeah. It's a ancient Indian, belief. So there's male and female, and then there's, homosexual, lesbian, but also transgender, and they call it I think that's called two spirits. They've got a it's they've got a beautiful way of explaining it. And most of the ancient cultures have got something like that. You see it all over the world. You know? In Thailand, you see it. In India, you see it. There's a cast in India. You know? So it's it's part of our society. Let's make space for it. You know, it all just kinda fits really right into something that I've been working on, recently. It's all about the the the the fiction of life. Right? I mean, I, the the book I wanna write is tell better lies. I just don't think it's gonna fly off the shelf. Right? You could say it's the number one bestseller right on the front cover. Yeah. It could. Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. Number one bestseller on thecover.com. Yeah. So, you know, the the the the thing about everything thing around us, every single thing around us, any any any anything that you describe, any politics, any idea, any any color, anything, is that at some point, it was fiction. At some point, someone had to make something up about it that's just so that so that blue became blue. So that, you know, whatever. Right? So all these are actually stories anyway. Right? All these things that we create are are are somebody, you know, who who whom you know, and and and I I frequently think a lot of these really wise texts, have something to do with mushrooms. You know? There's there's as I hear it, and and and I'll you know, there's a kind of enlightenment that comes when you realize, yeah, none of this matters really. You kinda figure out that, you know, there's this and then there's that, and you realize that, oh, yeah. You know, you you you can you can figure out that that that things don't have to be a certain way, and you can create a story around it. And if the story is attractive enough and it's a thing that people go like, oh, yeah. That kinda fits. I like that. Then they take it on and they go. Right? I mean, the the genetically speaking, there is no such thing as a goth. Right? Goths cannot exist in the world, but they do. You know? It is it is a creation out of a desire to look a bit different and to find something. I the the the the funniest thing, of course, I used to work with some guy who was you know, he would dress a certain way all the way. It was kind of the uniform. He he was more of a metal head. Right? So he dressed a certain way. He had the flannel shirts and all that. And I always just said, are you unique like all your friends? Yeah. You know? But that's that's kind of the thing. Right? It is really just a creation. It really is something. It's all about we're we're actually not arguing so much about fundamental things. We're just arguing about taste. You know? Yeah. Well well, that's identity. Right? Versus you know, because, you know, you just look through the animal kingdom. There's there's representation of, all forms of sex sexuality there too. Right? It's not just I mean, humans aren't unique. Well, it's just it's just a simple thing. It's it really is about, what you get used to, what you enjoy, you know, what feels comfortable or not. And, you know, I'm I'm I'm I I really think that when I maybe I'm one of the things that I I I I've talked about is that if if you if you want your kids to not have sex young, at a young age, tell them exactly what goes on. Right? Uh-uh. I I I think they get over that fairly quickly. Yeah. Well, the thing about about about certain things, you you get used to certain things. So there's certain things on the other side of actions or whatever where you go like, oh, this is this is kinda this is something that I kinda like. This is something that I I I would I would do again or be open to trying or whatever. So I I I think that kind of thing happens with a lot of things in life. Right? I mean, let's not talk about gender. Let's talk about cigar smoking. Right? It's sort of those things. It's like that sometimes doesn't make sense. A whole bunch of people for whom it doesn't make sense. There's a whole bunch of people who go like, oh, this is a really great thing. This is really good. You'll you know, I don't smoke. I only do cigars. You know, whatever. Any whatever whatever floats your boat, if you can keep it over there and it doesn't affect me, you know, that's that's fine as well. Right? I I I just think what what we have is a is a is a is a is an overwhelming desire, and and if you forgive me for the metaphor, for people who go like, well, we love cigars. Everybody else has gotta get good with cigars as well. Yeah. But I kinda think we're moving in that direction in another in in in a different way. Right? It's a swing. Yeah. It is. We don't we don't like this. But you so you have to suck it up and like this instead. You know? Like, especially especially the Christian nationalism, you know, message. You know? There's a a lot of talk about bringing, Christianity and, back back into every aspect of of life in America, and that's that's just really in the last week. That's that's starting to pick up some momentum. And, of course, Christian Christian nationalism is a big part of the force behind what we're seeing. Right? So not everyone's a bloody Christian. Yeah, Tim. Right? I wanna I wanna talk about you the USAID because, this this is probably the one that concerns me. I've got friends in in high places in a lot of the big global sort of charities doing amazing, amazing work. And, so the way Elon Musk has been talking about, this has been very, concerning. We've seen an immediate increase in human trafficking. We know these people are are the most vulnerable people on the planet. You know? What do you say, Joe? I'm I'm just gonna take a moment to make it very clear what we're talking about because because of what it sounds like. It always just sounds like we're talking about The USA. Right? It's it's Aid as in AID. Yeah. And it's it's basically a a a a a a a really, you know, wide sweeping program by The US, to help, to make the world a better place in as many ways as they that they can. And that's what we're talking about. And the reason why we're talking about is because, essentially, almost on day one, all spending by USAID was frozen. Right? It said that that that they had to stop every single thing. And so you had crazy stories, you know, people, like, in line in line for vaccinations, in line for treatment for, dangerous diseases, who have who literally were second or third in line, and who couldn't get it when the person in front, you know, was able to get, the the the care simply because the program had been shut down that dramatically and that instantaneously. Yeah. No. It's been, it's been really, been really impactful. So Nicholas Kristof, who's, he he he writes for the New York Times. He's looking to go back into politics, and he wrote, a a book called half the sky with his wife. Did you ever come across that? It's a really, really powerful book. Anyway, basically, he's written a piece in the New York Times called the world richest men take on the world's poorest children. And the first paragraph is the world's richest man is boasting about destroying The United States Agency For International Development, which saves the lives of the world's poorest children saying he shoved it into the wood chipper. And, what he's saying on on Twitter is mis and disinformation, but it's being believed and it's being shared. Right? So it was it's obviously, something that could have been improved. It obviously could have had cuts. There was obviously things that weren't quite right, but but the but the extreme sort of impact, is going to be felt all over the world. So what they're talking about, you know, we we we talk about bird flu. A person's died in The United States. I don't know if you just saw recently. There's a there's a new variant in cows, which is sort of bumping up the risk level. In New York, they're now testing everyone. Have you seen the have you seen the flu? So in Japan, in New York, so to see how it does. So in New York, they there's a call out for, the vans, frozen you know, the vans that have got frozen compartments that they put the bodies in. Then and they haven't they haven't seen a surge like that since the big crisis in the pandemic. So it's it's just starting to surge. In The UK, I just saw this skyrocketing flu. So it could be birth flu. It might not the cow variant. No. No. No. So in New York, what they're doing is they're testing everyone now. We've got Vicky who's I'm just trying to, choose hi, Vicky. Who's come to join us. So the other thing but the but so first of all, the CDC have been muted. They can't talk about this, but USAID also surveils 49 countries. So it's not just The US being impacted, but it's 49 countries. We had Ebola, right back in 02/2004, and that was in Trump's time. And, Oh, there's a there's a current outbreak right now, by the way. Yeah. And there's a new one, that's just been reported in Uganda, and, 234 contacts identified so far. So USAID would normally suppress it, so that that that's a real issue. There's another hemorrhagic fever called Marburg virus, which broke out in Tanzania last month. So they're trying to sort that out, but that's something, The US would usually step in, but they're no no longer there. Obstetric fistulas, which are a big issue for women in Africa. It's a childbirth injury. So it's a $600 surgery that gives them their life back. Basically, these poor poor ladies will be walking along with just urine constantly streaming down their legs. Right? So that's gone. Elephantiasis. So, basically, men with grotesque grotesquely enlarged scrotums, the sort of situation where you have to put it on a wheelbarrow to get it around. So it's obviously incredibly humiliating. So that's something that they've worked on. Malaria is obviously, one of the big ones. A lot of people are criticizing Bill Gates for sitting down with Trump. And, if you actually listen to what he talked to him about, it was about making sure that all of the the programs that he's been working on, including malaria, and polio and those sort of things, he he he's gotta work with the leader of the country. Right? AIDS. You know? The there's incredible work that's been done by America, and it's a program called PEPFAR. That's the acronym. And, you know, it's instantly putting people at risk instantly of death, but also seeing AIDS emerge as a much bigger threat again. So, you know, people going blind from river disease or all those sort of things. So and there's also an interesting one. So an evangelical Christian, it's called the International Justice Mission, has USAID support, and they've done incredible work stopping human trafficking in The Philippines and Cambodia. Right? So, you know, this you know, they've he he finishes with Donald does don't does Trump believe that rescuing children from rape is a radical loo lunatic cause? So it's that sort of stuff for me that, really sort of raises the hackles when, you know, Joe, when you say, you know, it's not all bad. What's going on? It's Yeah. But it's this stuff. It it just it reeks of corporate knee jerk reaction. Yeah. You know, when when when corporate they they you know, the the team sort of sit down and they look at the budget and they go, what the heck has happened? We know we're gonna miss our target for the next quarter. Okay. Headcount freeze. And they just freeze headcounts arbitrarily, and those places that have clarity of exactly what they need aren't getting the right headcount, but those places that are just randomly doing stupid stuff, are are causing the problem. And and and and so the corporate gets a headcount freeze. And it just sounds like that's the way that this government agency has been stopped because somebody's gone. Look at the numbers. But then there'll be the other narrative, and the other narrative is why is America the only one paying for all of this, Which, of course, it isn't. Other people will be paying for stuff too. But but that would be their narrative. It's like, why are we the ones having to pay for x, y, and zed? And, and there'll be a bunch of people going, yeah. We should be paying for you know, give keeping the money for ourselves sort of thing, and that narrative is a very easy one to sell. Yep. I think they come up they come up at tenth country, per person sort of contribution. They're about tenth in the world for generosity. But but, you know, it's I mean, but I I I think that I I like what you said. I think I think the the they need to look at where the money is going and cut the things that need to be cut. And And don't lie. Don't lie. You know? The condoms in in Gaza, like, no. No. It's that's not true. It's not true. It's zero. You know? Mhmm. It's the lies. Like, you know, if you if if you've if you've got integrity and you you wanna and you you believe that you're doing the changes that you're driving are to make a better world, then why are you doing this sort of shit? You know? Yeah. That seems weird. It's it's literally evil what they're doing because the then it's always the poorest. You know? The the refugee camps in Thailand. I mean, those poor people, you know, what they've had to endure and what they continue to suffer, and they're just they're just stepping out, you know, just overnight. You know? It's like, no. No. That's I mean and if you look at the way terrorists are formed, now now now I've alerted all the bots to what we've said. But if you if you look at that, you it's it's when aid is withdrawn or help is withdrawn and somebody dies and somebody gets angry. Yeah. You know? When you're hungry, you're an easy recruit. You know? When you're desperate yeah. Gaza. Apparently, it's gonna become a piece of American real estate, and they're gonna build luxury resorts. So which is obviously Jared Jared Kushner talked about, last year. Right? So it's this isn't, new. Is it a distraction while all these other ugly things are going on? But, it's pretty crazy stuff. What do you guys what was your what was your impression or takeaway? I mean I mean, you know, to to to a to a to a surgeon, all solutions are surgery. Right? I mean, that's Yep. If you're a developer, realistically, you When all you've got is a hammer, everything is a nail. Yeah. Yeah. You're a builder. Everything's a resort. You know, I I I I have to confess, that I thought about this idea before. You know? What was Gaza? Well yeah. Well, no. I I I had some radical ideas for how to how to solve problems around the world, and a lot of it had to do with giving people money and buying their place over. Right? So in essence, that is something that's similar. That only works if you're a benevolent dictator, and it doesn't work if your offspring aren't. Well, for for me, the the the benevolence of it, for instance, is, like, if you take over everything and everybody who's had it taken over gets a couple of million dollars. It's not a terrible deal. Just that, you know, politically, it's the kind of stuff that people go like, why would you do that? And you go like, it's it's it's the cost of peace. Well, why why why would that make sense? Well, because it costs less than having a, you know, an aircraft carrier in the in the area. And then, like, a friend of mine does that in The Philippines. He buys he buys farmers' farms because they're about to go out of business, and they can't afford the tractor and the whatever it is, and they're about to go broke. He buys their farm from them, and then he lets them stay on the farm and run their farm. And and that's a great idea, and they're very thankful, and they get their livelihood. They get the income. He helps them support it. But, ultimately, if he's good, Yeah. That's great. But it just takes somebody to then take over the whole thing. You know, well, I'm gonna turn this into a golf resort, you know, or whatever. Well, a lot a lot of building going on up in the mountains where they used to have farms in The Philippines, which he's gonna But this guy's doing it out of the right reasons. He's trying to he's trying to help these people. Yeah. No. It's good. But you but you Anyway, having said all that, it's crazy. It is a crazy idea. It sounds terrible. And I think one of the best, the best, reactions from all of that I I kinda know who who the the the the the the person was, but I I someone in the cabinet, or someone sort of next to Trump during this announcement has this look. And this person is someone who's who is in government, has this look of of The woman of What's her name? Yeah. Chief of staff. Yeah. Yeah. So she's she's, you know, she's one of them. Yeah. She looks like She looks What the hell? She looks she looks formidable, that woman. I reckon she'd take absolutely no nonsense at all. She's like a she's like the the ultimate school mom. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he he managed to upset the matron with that with that, with that comment. I mean, because someone someone else and everybody else has kinda pointed out that is literally without any kind of dressing up what ethnic cleansing is. Right? Get all the people who are not these people out of a place. The other thing about it, of course, is it's gonna become so hot there. Like, if you look at the summer, temperatures are increasing. You know, it's, crazy. So tariffs, we we probably need to sort of move quickly. Obviously, the the the tariff wars have been happening. China's been a really interesting one because what they've done is they've come back with tariffs that are sustainability focused. So they're focusing on, 15% tariffs on coal and liquefied natural gas products as well as 10% tariffs on crude oil, agricultural machinery, and large engine cars imported from The US. I believe they've also reducing their, things like agricultural purchases like soybeans, because they can get them from other places like Russia and Brazil. They're also studying a case against Google. But there was a really interesting, scenario that I heard discussed. So when when the Mexico Canada tariffs were being discussed. Right? So what happens to a place like Mexico? Right? So first of all, they have to close their factories like their automate or the automobile factories and stuff. So they're gonna close factories. Many, many people are gonna lose their jobs just as potentially hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Mexicans are gonna be forced to come home. So then you're gonna have a lot of people look competing for a very small amount of jobs, which is gonna create violence in the communities and violence for mobs will form, which means the Mexicans' tourism industry is going to crumble because who's gonna wanna go there on holiday. Right? So when you start sort of going through the, if this happens and this happens and this happens and this happens, and, it was looking, very, very painful. I I I'm I'm impressed with, I think the Canadians handled themselves very well. I think, Claudia Shambo in Mexico handled herself very well. But, yeah, this tariff trade war thing, I don't the next topic that we've got here is bricks. I think going after China is are we are we seeing the end of the, the great empire as many people are saying? Because BRICS is on the rise. 50% of the world's population is now part of BRICS, and that's 40% of the global GDP. We've just seen Indonesia join it, and, nations have just said that they're gonna join. Turkey, and I think it was it was it was Slovenia. So Happy birthday, Clinton Taylor's father-in-law. Happy eightieth. Yeah. Absolutely. Big one. Enjoy your dinner. Yeah. So, yeah, bricks. I mean, I think, it's something that we're not we we we pay attention to it because we're in this part of the world. But, thoughts? I mean, look. It's just a it's just a grouping. Right? It's a grouping of people who basically weren't invited to the party, and they set up their own party. I mean, that's that's Yeah. Really ultimately what happened. And and and so, I mean, I I know we were we're supposed to have moved on from USAID, but what what that is right now is by doing all this stuff, it's really letting China come in and be the really nicer host for a really nicer party. Right? Because what what what USAID was doing and, has now suddenly stopped doing is doing all the important stuff. It's it's philanthropy by a country, and therefore buying you friends. Right? Buying you influence in in in places where you normally wouldn't have as much influence because you're the good guy. Right? You're you're you're, you know, he's America, but he's alright because he does all this other stuff as well. Now he doesn't do all the other stuff. Right now he's just complaining that he was paying for everything, and he's taken away everything. And he's saying, you know, you know, I don't I don't wanna pay for all of it. And then you go like, well, hang on. I didn't have a stake. You know? Whatever. It's a it's a it's a bizarre conversation that that happens. So you you the the soft power that The US used to have through USAID and through other kinds of, ventures, has been removed. And economically, what happened is this. Right? And the the The US plays hardball and makes it hard to do business with The US well, business still continues, and they'll look for whoever else it goes well with. Right? So if you if you look at bricks, and as bricks develops and gets more significant, every day, it actually threatens The US's ability to influence, the the rest of business in the world because less and less, the the US dollar becomes less and less the absolutely necessary currency, you know, be because you you you could conceivably change the currency with which the world actually trades. And I mean, it's it's it's hard to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard it's hard to do. I mean, it's like, as much as there is an impetus to do that, there's a reason why they still have that much strength because of power. But this this last bit, USAID, and and and the the tariffs, all that kind of stuff, basically, is it's it's the opening of the hand that lets the grip go, you know, on a lot of these things because that now there's no reason. Now this is the this is the unfriendly, you know, the unfriendly couple where they where they've been staying for the kids, and suddenly the kids have said, oh, it's okay. We're going out. We're leaving the house. So, you know, that that's that's really that thing. There's nothing else left for them to really hang on to. I know this sounds like a real big pronouncement. But, really, there's there's there's so much less to to to hang on to. There's no relationship to hang on to. So it is a lot easier for people to to to go and say, oh, there's a party going on over there. I mean, if you look at where the world's, economic power is gonna be, look, China, undeniably, but the other area, of course, Southeast Asia. Yeah. I I mean, you know, if you ASEAN. Yeah. Exactly. So it is it and it's and it's growing. And there's an interesting, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and South Korea, they're forming a really interesting alliance. Yeah. No. I mean, you know, there's some big shifts, happening. And I just just just in case people didn't know, so BRICS, if you don't know about it, it's worth looking into, but it stands for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. And they had some big announcements, last year where Egypt and Ethiopia were were, invited. And people are like, why would you invite them? And one of the things that, what I find really interesting about bricks is that they're inviting in countries that have got a long cultural heritage. So they might not necessarily be in a good position right now, but they've got they've got a rich history because countries like China have got such a beautiful rich history. Right? And And they start with a vowel. Yeah. I was I was gonna say, you you wanna you wanna add countries that can add cute cutesy ness to your group, like, sounds fun. Did I say yeah. That's it. But yeah. So, I find the the BRICSI is is a really interesting it it's it's really, really changing the balance and the economic impacts and, you know, talking about China's affording its debt its US dollar debt, which is Yeah. Huge. Huge. It can have a huge impact on The US economy. So, you know, we're we're we're going we're going into some hard times. Right? But let's move on to artificial intelligence. Obviously, we were talking earlier. Elon Musk is talking about replacing government employment. He's all with artificial intelligence. It was always, you know, artificial intelligence was coming. Now it's just gonna come more rapidly. DeepSeek obviously got a lot of attention. I think a lot of people have missed the story. You know, you're seeing a lot of people going, going on to DeepSeek and asking, show me a picture of a man with a with a shopping bag standing in front of a tank. And then DeepSec will respond and go, you know, there's no I don't have any information on that. But the story for me of of it was never about that, about Chinese censorship censorship. It was about how expensive AI is, which is obviously why the the share market had a big impact. But I don't know if the media or the the western influence has sort of pushed it back towards this censorship side, and and now, you know, government officials in Australia, you can't have it on your phone because, you know, blah blah blah, all that sort of stuff. But I think they're missing the point. It's how easy it was to develop and and cheap it was to develop and deploy it. But, Joe, you're much more sort of paying attention to things like that than I am. Well, first of all, I mean, let's just put in the context why it made such a big difference. Right? It it's it's basically about the shift in in in who is the AI superpower. Right? It's the it's the idea that if you if you think back to to to the early days of rocket travel of of, rocket travel, rocket ships and stuff like that, going to the moon, that whole thing was about supremacy. Who is the superpower? Who has the ability to do that? And and America was far and away, so far ahead. Far and away, so far ahead. Yeah. My chat GBD is not working very well. It's one of those things where the the the shift of power is what really happened there. So, you know, when when when it was just assumed that because of what was required, China couldn't do it, blah blah blah, then it was done then it was done for cheaper, and then they had to try and find all kinds of ways that they have cheated, and then they they they they they perhaps cheated. The fact is simply this. Right? AI deep by by, by DeepSeek is it's cheaper. It's more available. I've tried using it. I like it. I I like it a lot because it actually kind of it it for me, I like it because it explains itself. If you if you use the research version of it, it it tells you what is going on. It tells you how it's thinking. It's like really, looking inside the mind of a pretty clever guy as as as as as they're describing their thoughts. Guy, girl, same thing for me. Now the the the reason why it wiped out as much value is because the the the whole idea of what the value was before is because this is expensive. It's expensive to create all this. This technology is expensive, so the investment's important. And so this is what we need to keep going. Right? So that basic assumption was basically, taken away. It's like it it it was made now. It's like, you know, it it does not take hundreds of millions. It takes tens of millions to create this particular technology. Right? And that was the greatest irony that everyone who's who's who's been keeping an eye on AI loves is that, how people are complaining that DeepSeek was trained well, it was possibly quite possibly trained on chat GBT. You know? Fair enough. Because that's the way we because and how was chat GBT sort of, you know, fed originally. Right? So all of our data's been used by I mean, Grok, it's still using Twitter data. Right? First mover first mover innovator is always the most expensive as they educate the market anyway. It's the second one. That's what Apple's strategy is. Just wait and see and then come in with a better version usually. Not always, but usually. Oh, yeah. Did you see did you see did you see Google's now announced that it won't, it it it had a statement that it wouldn't, be involved with artificial intelligence for defense and military and security. Did you see that? And now they've said that that's no longer the case. So not only have they finished their DEI initiatives, they've also they're gonna allow AI to be used in that in that capacity. So that's that's a what's their tagline? Do no evil? It was. That was taking way long. Time ago. Used to be. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So let's finish on the my favorite topic, which I see everything that's happening in the world through the lens of the planetary crisis. So did you guys know that January was 1.75 degrees Celsius above pre industrial levels? Did you did you know that? So the first month of this year quite cold in Singapore. Yeah. It's been lovely, hasn't it? Yeah. Don't worry. Don't worry. The heat's coming. Hot season's just around the corner. Yeah. So basic basically, because it's been a it's, sort of a fading La Nina. It's supposed to so I was hoping that 2025 would be a cooler year, after the last couple of years where it's been so intense. So 2023 was the hottest, 2024 was hotter, and now we've kicked off 2025, with 1.75 degrees above. So we obviously saw the catastrophic fires in LA, which were politicized. Did you say about Trump getting all that water released that the farmers are just like, oh my god. This is this is the water that we need, you know, in six months' time. We know what we need. Yeah. We we we should spend a moment to talk about what actually happened. Right? So this is about, Trump and all the bluster about water and water kept up and what and water supplies being held back. And so what he did was he did an executive order to release. I'm not sure if it actually has happened, but I know the order was given No. It did. Anyway, so it's it's it's They were gonna do it. He They Yeah. But they were gonna do it. And, the guys who actually do that job said to the engineers, like, no. No. No. No. You can't do it because we have to we have to warn everyone downstream, especially the people that live on the river because they might get washed away and drown. You know, we usually give them, like, a week or two weeks notice before we do a release. So they go they delayed it by a few days, but they did release it. And it's gone nowhere near where the fires were. It's Yeah. So that's that's the big that's the big news about what what what what all this is about. Right? That that big release was to release water out there, and it went in the in the completely wrong direction. And that's that's the brilliance of it. It's not it's not like someone did something radical and did it in the right direction. That would be something radically interesting. After the Pfizer router anyway. Yeah. Exactly. The the idea of it was you know? Okay. So the the the big idea is that, you know what, put out get get all that water out there. You know? Let the ground soak it up and what have you and all the different things that that went along with that, except it wasn't solving the problem, and it was actually just wastage. It was the waste of the resource, which is which is really what what is upset thinking about that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's crazy. Right? Just in the last week, there's terrible floods in Australia and, Queensland, and and they're expecting more rain to come back through this weekend. So it's sort of up north in the sort of Townsville area. I've driven, from rock, Rocky back into Brisbane when a when a flood was rising, and it's actually quite a terrifying experience. But, it's been really crazy. There's record snowfall in in Japan. Have you seen the cars completely covered in snow? And, the The Philippines is now preparing for an extreme rainfall event. So I'm really sort of thinking for people there because, you know, in in countries like The Philippines, you see a lot of landslides, a lot of people die that way. And all of this is happening when, James Hansen and his team, who's always on the sort of the the extreme edge when it comes to climate predictions, but as far as I've seen, he's never been wrong, has basically said, two degrees Celsius warming is dead. So we've we've we've we've just passed 1.5. He said we're we're we're two's two degrees Celsius is dead. I actually think that's the case. I I think we're we're we've got no chance. Right? And two degrees is when we lost all the the world's coral reefs. So, just just just the impact and the fallout of that. So and in the in the meanwhile, in The US, they're out of the Paris agreement, which we, of course, expected. They're shutting down NOAA, which is their sort of, you know, their weather agency, scientific agency, and the academics and the scientists are being silenced. So, from a from a where the path that we're on now perspective, it's not looking good. And I think, this South African cabal, I think what they're what they're doing is looking at building these future cities so they can, you know, move move there. But but they better get moving because they're actually running out of time. And, I have to say Palestine is not a good place for one of those cities because it's gonna be too hot, but Greenland might make make some more sense. But, yeah, it's, it's accelerating, and the scientists don't know why. That's the biggest problem. So Hansen is putting it down to, sulfur, so aerosols, and and we've talked about that before. But as China's cleaning up its its its act from a from an environment perspective, less aerosols. Right? More warming. If India cleans up its act, more warming. So, you know, we're on this, you know, but there's some significant volcanic activity and earthquake activity. You've seen Santorini. Have you seen the earthquakes happening in Santorini? Thousands of them. And it's just in the islands around Saint oh, it's it's fascinating. Every day, it's like there's just constant earthquakes. They're not sure what's gonna happen there. They don't think it's a volcanic. It's a it's earthquake, but, yeah, that's significant. Oh, I'm And You should go and check it out. I I'm shocked because I'm going there in June if it's still there. Well, I think I'm going in June. Yeah. It might not might you might need to relook at that one. It it's been going on for a good week or so. Okay. So, anyway alright. So, just to wrap up, you know, I know a lot of people are really struggling with this time. They they they they kind of stepping away, don't wanna face it. I'm I'm I'm a believer that you've gotta face it because if you don't face it, you you you can't be prepared for it. So any thoughts, guys, on your advice to everyone, what to do? Comedy. Comedy is always good. Go look for it. Find the people who will speak the truth and find the funny angle on things, because I think you'll do two things there. Usually, you'll find a way to learn some stuff because in that, emotional release, there's always stuff you pick up on. And and I guess maybe along with that, just make sure your comedy is fact checked. I know it's a ridiculous thing to say, but try and use comedy that's based on facts. Yeah. I I I encourage dark humor. My Yeah. Steve Steve's good for that. The the strategy of of of not looking and not paying it paying attention, you know, it's it seems selfish, but I but I also think it kinda works for a group of people because not everyone's made for the fight, and that's really the the the way the world works. Right? You gotta have people who are good at doing something, and maybe this is not their time. Right? I mean, if if you're if you're being invaded by marauders, the person who is the expert at knitting can take a seat. I mean, I just I just I just feel despite the fact I have needles, it might be it might yeah. It might be just the thing to go. Okay. You you go and organize. You've done you've done a you've done a pastiche before. Please organize something in the background. You know? Make make us feel good about ourselves. Obviously, it's not a thing I thought about for a long time, but it just came out that way. Sorry for everybody. But, you know, that that that so so some people are not there to fight. And I think what what what what is an issue in in the world currently is this. Everybody wants you to be like me. Everybody wants, you know, everybody wants other people to be as angry as they are about the same things, care about the same things. I mean, let's take all the serious stuff out of the way. When have you met someone who's just discovered how good coffee can be, who is in who's not insufferable, right, about right? So that's that's kind of, I I think, where where where we are. We have to let some people, who are not built for standing up at this time to take a seat. But those who have the ability, those of you who know, who go like, you know what? You you you find yourself in a place where I could do something about this, but you're deciding not to. Maybe it's time for you to step forward and go, okay. I'm I'm I'm gonna do something about this. And you don't always have to do it all a% or or or or even a high number like that. Like like, you know, like, taking a stand for instance on on on the environment bit by bit. We've done it very slowly in our house. I I know I know, like, for you, Andrea, you you're probably more hardcore about the whole thing. You take the family out. You clean up the beaches. What we've done is we've stopped using, we stopped introducing, you know, like, plastic containers into the house. Right? I mean, we don't we don't actively get them. But when we do get one of those, we also reuse them because, you know, we gotta get our microplastics. But the the idea is do something, but it doesn't have to be a % kind of transformation. You know? Don't think of it like being pregnant and not pregnant. You can be a little environmental. But you can't be a little bit pregnant or you can be or a little bit not pregnant. I don't know. No. I think I think that's good. But the one thing I would say, like, you know so let's look at the 70% that I was talking about earlier. Right? So we need this group to mobilize and rise. Right? Because the the 30, they're they're they're mobilized. They're fighting. Right? If if you if you can't do it, and I totally get that. Like, I talk to people about this who are really struggling from a mental health perspective. They're just they're just exhausted. And that's the goal of what's been going on, by the way, to exhaust us. But, nurture and nourish the people who are fighting. Just do that. You know? And there's so many ways you can do that. And if you don't know how to help somebody, ask them. You know, if someone's out there being a voice or acting in a way that represents something that you you care about but you haven't got the energy to do it, ask them how how you can help. Because that's the one thing. You just don't feel supported when when you're doing it. You just don't. And, that makes it that makes it hard because you're just tired all the time. He's like, come on, guys. Yeah. You know, those beach cleanups. I was like, come on. I was trying to make it look fun because I wanted people to wanna do it. And then I'd bring Steve along, and he'd be like, this is awful. It's so hot. And I'm like, can you just smile and pretend? Just, you know, let's make it fun for the boys. Yeah. I would, I would say, just really focus on the things that matter to you. There you the, you know, the flooding is only shit. Right? This is happening. And every single day, there's there's a new piece of new piece, and you you kinda like when when you're watching it. You you gotta really step back from this, and and, you know, the the most sensationalist news is not the most important news. There's something happening behind the scenes. So, I'd I'd pay attention to those people that I mentioned earlier that, you know, that that that that they've got a mission. They've got they've got the perfect opportunity to execute on that mission. Is that mission in your interest? And if it's not, what are you gonna do about it? Especially if you're a parent. Right? What are you gonna do about it? You know? And it's because this isn't just America. This will ripple out Yeah. Consume the world. Right? I feel good here in Asia, and I think there's a I think there's a strength in this community, political strength as well as, regional community. But it will ripple out and consume the world. So we've we've gotta pay attention and, you know, you you're raising girls, both of you. Right? What does it mean for them? What does it mean for their future? What are their opportunities like? Right? You've got a child with a disability. What does it mean for them? You know, what are their opportunities like? So, you know, I think, paying attention and, getting involved in the things that you really care about and and not being overwhelmed because you you you can't take it all on board. You just can't. It's too much. Yeah. Actually, on yeah. My my point would have been it piggybacks nicely on that in in so far as it's if you're feeling overwhelmed or you're feeling anxious about it, withdrawing is is while it's understandable, the better option is to talk to someone. And and whether that's a counselor or whether that's a friend that's involved or whether that's your community is to, get some pastoral care, I guess, from those people in your community that can help, or that are shepherds for that community. Because I I just think that it's that'll do two things, and that'll reinvigorate with what community can do. Yeah. And the support networks that Andrew was talking about, supporting the people who are doing something, you know, if you're speaking to them as well about it and just saying how you're feeling, they may have already gone through that stage of feeling and can sort of help you through it. But also, it can help them know that you're actually also concerned and that what they're doing matters. So it sort of ends up being a two way thing. But even if it's just speaking to a counselor who has no idea what the heck is going on, but is trained to listen and help you process, that might be good too. It doesn't mean that everyone has to go out and get therapy immediately, but it just means talk it out, don't shut it up, and hide away from the reality of what is happening, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Nice. I just looked looked, and I've got two, golden spikes coming out of the top of my head. So, yeah. I can just say that. I have to make sure I have to make sure those screws are in a different spot next time. No. No. Yeah. Good one. And, like, if anyone wants to to for me, the journey to acceptance of sort of looking at the path that we're on as a as a global society and what we've done to nature and getting beyond the the horror of what we're facing, just moving into a a a place of acceptance. So so it doesn't matter what happens, like, what's happening in The US. I just sort of, the dark humor comes in. Right? I just sort of sit there and go, of course, that's what we're doing. You know? Let's not do what we have to do. Let's do that instead. Right? Oh, good. Okay. But the path to acceptance, it's been a really interesting journey. But, because it's not it's it's it's whatever happens, that's I I I'm ready for it, but I'm still gonna do everything I can to make sure that the worst doesn't happen. That's the place that I got to. It took a long time. I'm happy to talk to people about that if they wanna talk about it. Because if you just because if you're just sitting in fear all the time, it's just such as intimidating. Yeah. No one makes a good decision from a place of fear. You know, so, you know, I I I don't have any fear in me. I was just like, oh, yeah. Okay. Here we go. Next one. Oh, oh, I've made another stupid decision. No fear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. But you've learned a lot of lessons. Well, what I want to do to do is actually just advise anyone to to to to look at the world more Discerningly. Broadly as in, like, let's just have a look at it. Have have a look at the world from a from a larger perspective because we are really bad at looking at the world through the the the real statistics. Right? We we we can get our attentions drawn to something because something happens right in front of us, and we get really upset by that. But we don't look at the big picture and say things are bad, things are good. Right? Yeah. So from a lot of metrics, right, the world is good. The world is good, but we have a really bad deal problem. Right? I mean, that that's kind of of of what's going on in the world. And and I and I was gonna invite people to do this. So I have think really think about the about going through your life as, as dealing with a bag of M and M's. Right? If you're convinced that the world is full of yellow M and M's, you will see yellow M and M's showing up all the time. And you might not even realize that the other M and M's are there. This is an unpaid sponsorship. I'm just gonna keep going. Right? But the green ones, as you know, are the sexy ones. Right? So if if you if you're open to losing That's the red ones. No. No. No. The green ones. The green ones are supposed to be the effort, easy access I already finished the packet. You guys keep talking. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That that ability to understand that not the whole thing is not not, that no small part of it is the whole thing can help you, first of all, find that there is light in the world if even even if you, you know, I mean, you just don't like chocolate because it's everywhere, but there's light every there there is light. And and and also for yourself to go, look, I don't have to do I I don't have to flip the switch and just become something else. This doesn't have to be the answer. The the the answer is not this or that. It's about putting on a little bit on the the what you've already gotten. Right? I mean, it it it can work. It does work. It's even if you don't believe it does work, try it. You know? Like, you I I I I'm I'm, strangely, my mind's doing this right now to me. It says, you know, have you ever had cheese with have you ever had, you know, apple with cheddar? The first time I ever heard about the idea, I was like I was revolted by the whole thing. This is an apple. Why would I mix it with cheese? And then I had it, and I went like, oh, this kinda works. And I'm doing both at the same time. Right? So but there there's something there's something to this. There there is, you know, like like like, for instance, people who who we we talk about fashion. Right? We talk about how fast fashion is and how bad how it how it's bad for the environment, and people who are who want to be fashionable go like, yeah. You know, I can't I can't keep on doing that. And and so they they they have to make a choice and hop across and just don't consume or whatever. There is a middle ground that's lowering your consumption. There is increasing the the the the the purchase you make from a from a secondhand shop, as part of your your your your way of dressing yourself, combining with a few new new items. You know, there are all kinds of things. You can you can decide a a a better policy. For instance, when you when you buy clothes, you can decide that, you know, instead of sending it back, what you can do is you can go into the secondhand market or carousel and maybe sell it on to somebody else. At least then you're helping it make helping it be better than just go like, okay. I don't want this. Send it back so that it can be thrown away by somebody else. Although most of the charity shops don't want the fast fashion stuff. They're just overwhelmed by it, which is why so much of it ends up on the beaches of Africa, yeah, in the Right. Deserts of Chile. So you just gotta stop. We just gotta stop buying it. Like you know, and and, you know, there's, I was reading an article the other day, the increase in breast cancer in in women, obviously, because of the chemicals that are in shampoos and body body products and stuff. But it's also, the chemicals and the plastics in the clothes, which the the fast fashion are are known for. So especially, like, sports gear. Right? These women are wearing bras and and and singlets and stuff that's touching their body, and their skin is absorbing, the chemicals and the microplastics straight into their body. So just from their own health perspective. But I do think we need to address the addiction that exists for so many people who can't help themselves, but buy this stuff. You know? So they're getting themselves into incredible debt, but it's an addiction that needs to that needs a proper solution. I mean, I see that as just having a lack of purpose That's it. That that and it's it's almost escapism through feeling like I'm accomplishing something by going out and buying something, and I've I've gone out, I've hunted, I've I've got something valuable to you know, and I've come back and and that feeling wears off very quickly, and so I have to go out and do it again, which like I said is an addiction. But but it's it's it's because there is an unmet need. And going back to the the, you know, counseling side, it really is what is the unmet need that's driving that particular behavior, and usually you can't see it and somebody else so somebody else is can is not in the game, so they can see what you how you're playing the game. And getting getting that clarity of distance is really, really important. But you gotta be ready for that message. Right? Pardon? You you gotta be ready to hear that message like a lot of people Yes. Totally. And and usually usually that that readiness comes when there's another financial priority comes into your life and you're struggling to meet the bills. Yeah. You know? So I'll just get out get out and clean up beaches. I don't keep you busy. Well, I I was just I was just talking to somebody about this day. Right? It's like, we we're all addicts. We we basically are all addict we're we're all addicts, of something. And it just happens to be that you have a good habit or a bad habit. Right? That and that's that's that's lucky kind of thing that I think we have. I I'm I'm I I am I I'm convinced that I'm someone with undiagnosed, ADHD, so I have many bad habits and good habits all at the same time. And and it keeps me happy enough. It make it makes my it it makes me feel like I'm okay. So, you know, if we understand that and and kind of can feel for other people as well and go, like, actually, what what what what what what fuels bad behavior is the same thing that fuels good behavior. It is something that you you you understand about the story so that, you know, as you're doing the hard thing or the good thing, it actually makes you feel better. You're actually getting drugs released into your body to to to to reward you for those difficult things you're doing. That's wonderful. Right? But most people don't have that insight. They don't know it. And so they can't have that story running in their head so that they can't feel great about doing the workout. I still can't. You know, it it's it's it's it's that kind of thing. So, you know, actually, the work on dopamine, if if you can, and you wonder where to go and find stuff is do as much research as you can, right now about how dopamine works and how our brain responds to it and how we can modify our behaviors so that we can actually we we we can we can, we we we can we can trick our future selves a little bit so that we can start doing things that are good for us, so that we start feeling the the the benefits of a positive reinforcement with dopamine. Dopamine is not bad. It actually helps keep us alive. Yeah. But we can't just let it indiscriminately guide the way we do things. Right? We've never we've never had so much dopamine in our lives. Right? So it used to be No. No. It's not just that thing. Right? It's all it's all of the it's everything. It's it's, you know, and it's it's, you know, it's it's like and so I was it was funny you you brought up dopamine. Understanding how our brains work, understanding, how, the ancient brain was formed. So dopamine was, the the time that the tribe found cherries, and everyone had the pleasure of cherries, but you might not find it for twelve months. And so today, you know, it's like ping, ping, ping, ping is dopamine constantly going off, and we're that's not what we're built for, but we become addicted to dopamine. And it's you know, you say everyone's got an addiction. We do all have addictions. You know? And people only like to focus on some of them, but there's there's digital, there's physical, there's so many addictions. But we we go back to the the news and and the overwhelm. Like, if you're constantly sitting in that ding, ding, ding space of, like, oh my god. Can you believe what Trump has done? Oh my god. Can you believe what Elon Musk has done? All day, every day, if you're and and you but if you're feeling really strong emotions every time That's cortisol now. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's moving it over. Right? But they go together. But that's when you've gotta sit and sit back and go, okay. Wait a minute. You know? Step back from it. If you constantly activate it emotionally in a negative way, I think that's a real sign. Just step back. Step back and take the emotions out of it. Like, I can't I can't pay attention to this stuff if I'm emotional all the time. Because it could you imagine how miserable I'd be? You gotta take the emotions out of it. Sometimes you can't. Step back. Step back. But let's but step But don't but no. When I say step back, I don't I don't say step away. I say step back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. That's yeah. That's the so, I mean, people tend to tend I mean, you look look at a 20 year old who's in a relationship, is having difficulties at work, and, and something else is going on in their life, and they tend to they tend to to try and take control by breaking up or quitting the job. You know, it's it is and that's that's how some people are behaving to world news sometimes. It's to just quit it. And rather than just go, okay. How am I playing this? How am I playing this out? Maybe that's a terrible one. I should I should have used an M and M's example. But but I still don't get the M and M's example. Yeah. I I I'm not sure I got it either, but I wanted to eat some now to get some dopamine. I can't help but think that that there was a couple of commandments in those 10 commandments, which was the first one was you you shan't have any more any other gods, before me. So and the and the second one was you you don't create any idols. And these addictions are because we are giving our attention to these things that we are addicted to, and that becomes our purpose for being. Like, I know a woman who who every paycheck it's not my wife. Every paycheck goes and buys a new handbag. And Oh, wow. And and you and and a new branded handbag, and that's her thing. And I'm just like, just say if I can buy a property or some I mean, I don't know, something in Greenland, because because it but but that's that's oh, but that's my passion. That's my hobby. That's my thing. It's like, I don't know. I think you could get another one. It's it's an idol in a sense. It's that thing that is is being put before you that is capturing all your attention, and I'm not just talking about about that, but it's capturing all your attention, and it's becoming the thing that is controlling your desires, your behavior, your emotion, you know, which is why the big guy in the sky said, worship me. Not because he needs it, but because we need to not be worshiping these other stupid things. So Yeah. That's that's that's my that's my that that's about as theological as I'm gonna get today. Probably. No. That's okay. Alright. What are you watching? What's I am the truth, the chocolate, and the life. What? The truth, the chocolate, and the life. Yeah. Alright. What, what are you what are you consuming at the moment that's giving you a moment of distraction? I figure, I'll start for once. I started watching Yellowstone. Started watching Yellowstone. So I've watched season one. Have you guys seen it? No. Okay. I tried starting it. I tried starting it. I don't know why it didn't it didn't quite catch me, but I I tried I'll try again. I I I do want to go back to it. It's, it's not the distraction because it's some pretty nasty people. It's pretty ruthless, but it's, it's a different take on cowboys than I I've ever seen before. But, what I like about it is, like, everyone's harmed in some way. And as it goes along, you you start to understand more about why they're why they're an asshole because of this. Right? How about global politics? Yeah. Exactly. Right? So yeah. It's kind of one of those mhmm. But, I think I think I'm enjoying it. Just watch season one, and there's some fascinating characters in it, but, there's a cruelty to the life, which I suppose has to has to be that way. I don't know. But I know, Tim, you're racing towards finishing your degree. Yep. At the moment, I'm reading this, which is, about worldview. And so at the moment, I'm I'm looking at, different worldviews and how worldview works, the structure of worldview, the various lenses, confirmation bias, which we talked about today, and Yeah. How all the different lenses are there. This is obviously look. This one is, introduction to Christian worldview pursuing God's perspective in a pluralistic world. So it's trying to understand worldview, and they're unabashedly saying, we're we're talking about this one, but we're we're looking at it in a world where there's lots of other world views. So we're not being myopic about the world view, and we're understanding about how people are thinking about things. And what was really interesting about world view is if you've really thought about four major questions of the worldview, and if you've really thought about how about where our beliefs and thinking and everything else comes from, and what the the, and the answers to these four major questions. If you they really thought about and come to a conclusion, that person's harder to shift than somebody who isn't really paying attention. And they really the person who's not really paying attention is the easier one because you dangle a handbag in front of them, and they'll follow you, for example, you know, that other person just linking up all these things together. But yeah. But I I I just found it I find I found it really interesting from that perspective as well, and I'm forced to read it anyway because I have to write a paper on it. But it's all That's interesting. Yeah. I I can I can I can say that that definitely was not part of my Catholic education, that perspective? No. It is this is the only world view and, yeah, you're going to hell if you don't have it. I mean, yeah, it's it no. No. So this is it's I mean, it's the whole point of, you know, we're in this sort of pluralistic society. So it's it's really interesting. I just found it fascinating. You wanna know what the four questions are? Yeah. Yep. The four the four major question is first one is what is our nature? Like, what are we like? What are we reacting to? What are we being? What is our world? I think you'll like this, Andrew, actually. What is our nature? What is our world? Like, what's the nature and character of the physical world? Order chaotic, closed system, open system, how is it actually structured and working? What is our problem, and, what's wrong with us as human beings? How can it be solved? What's wrong with the world? How can it be solved? And then what's the end or the Greek word telos, which is purpose, end goal, destination. And then it's it's it's making sense of life in terms of who am I, what is the world in this place that I'm in, what is the problem of the world in which I'm participating, rather than putting our head in the sand saying there isn't one or or operating obviously of a naive sheltered narrative that our parents are trying to keep us away from a lot of this sort of stuff and that we operate with that worldview or or an us and them worldview rather than it's just us. And and then what's the end? What is our what is our trajectory, and how are we gonna behave then? Because we've Mhmm. Investigated a little bit about who I'm who who am I in this world, and how am I gonna play the game. I I think it's quite quite nice because, really, your whole thing about no show and about Climate Courage and about everything else is answering these four questions and saying, what are we gonna do if that's this is where we are and this is what the problem is, and this is the direction that we're heading. What what you really then go back to is that very first question of who am I playing in that world? And what you're trying to encourage people to do is to identify that they are a person who has a voice to make a change to try and change the direction by playing in the world. It's quite cool. But it's And and and how do we behave. Right? I like that. How do we behave when we get on that? So Otherwise, some people could come in to come in to listen to today's show and just go, this is a bunch of conspiracy theorists, you know, having a bit of a whinge and saying the world's gonna end. I mean, it it it could have sounded like that. I wouldn't say this is a bit of a whinge. I would say it's quite a whinge. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've run over M and M's too, so that's the other whinge. But, yeah, it was quite a whinge. But but it but it it is you know, there's an element of being curious about Yeah. How we're playing the game, and is the way that I'm playing the game working for me, for others, and for the greater community? Yeah. So Yeah. Have you seen Conclave? Anyone seen Conclave yet? No. No. You talked about that last time. Well, that was months ago, of course. No. No. No. It's no. No. It's only it's only just, it's a movie. It's just, I mean we talked about it at the dinner at your dinner party, at Alexa's party. I don't know. But I remember you talking about it. I only watched it, like, few days ago. It's about, the Olympics overplay. Whole thing prophetic. Yeah. Anyway, tell us about it. Yeah. Anyway problems I'm not helping. That's that's worth watching. That's worth watching. Okay. Definitely. I won't tell you about it because you just have to watch it. Check. Alright. So what I've been distracted with, myself, I've I've been I've been getting quite heavy into this, this thing about trying to write a book. Right? I've got about story. Right? Like, I I told you about this before. Right? Telling better lines. And it's basically this whole thing about how everything it's it's it's almost like everything I I I hear is almost solvable with the word story. How do we how do we do this? How can we how can we fix it? I'm I'm to the point where I wanna challenge someone, you know, who's got who who works on the Enneagram system, and I say, I think I can change the personality of somebody. Right? But, that that's one thing I'm trying to work with. I'm challenged with the actual right to because I'm I'm I'm so organized. So I'm I'm using I'm I'm looking at different tools. I'm experimenting with different things. So I but I but I do think I'm in danger of actually having a book by the end of this year. So let's let's see how it goes. Wow. Congratulations. Right? Okay. But the the the the the usual media, kind of the media recommendation, that I'm gonna put out, there's a show that is it it's quite new, and it's been created by I I I know how many of you ever saw the series This Is Us. Yeah. I think so. Okay. Empty room. No. It's alright. It it it it was a very it was a very series, quite a few years ago, but it was basically one of those shows where they described it this way. You would you would tune in to cry. It would be one of those things where, you know, it'd be some kind of cathartic or therapy kind of it it would feel that way. It was nice storytelling and all that kind of stuff. The star in every show is a bit different. Right? A bit of that. Yeah. A little bit of a a a a a a anyway, so the the the same writer, creator has produced a new show. And it's one of those shows where there's so much going on in terms of as you as you find out one thing and then you find out the next thing. It is just an absolute delight. So it's an absolute delight in terms of the storytelling, the world that it is without you realizing what it is, and it's on Unraveling the history. Yeah. Yeah. It's on it's on Disney Channel, and it's called Paradise. Try not to run ahead and read read more than what it's about, in terms of the general gist of things because it is just fascinating. I I I and I and I think it was one of those things which I thought, like, was only gonna be a bit more like my kind of show. And then as it goes along, it becomes more of a show that even, you know, Andrea, I think, might find, an interesting take on things. But I I really don't want to to to say much more than that. It's one of those shows that's so delicious that I say, just just just trust me on this watch paradise. Yeah. They they they don't even believe anymore. Concrete. I think if I looking at this is I'm I'm looking at the this is us sort of marketing. It doesn't look like a show I've seen, but it would have been a show that I would have thought there's no way in hell I could get Steve to watch it. But you you Oh, no. No. No. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's it's a it's a it's a worse, more emotionally manipulative version of Little House on the Prairie. You would not have liked it. Okay. Okay. Where's conclave? Where's conclave showing? Movie. It's a movies. So, I don't know. I can't remember. But, yeah. Okay. Okay. It could be still at the cinemas. I don't know. Oh, really? I'll ask Steve. Yeah. You know? That's the that's the that's the slightly controversial. I'd say slightly, with with the commas. One about the pope, is it? Yep. Yeah. No. That's really interesting. Very interesting. Anyway, we should we should wrap up more than two hours. Thank you for joining us. We've had people popping in and out. You can see, but, yeah, been just great to talk about this because I've obviously been spending a lot of time. And, Joe, I don't know if you were surprised that, I didn't come into this with a negative opinion of everything that's going on. I don't know if that surprised you, because to me, that's not how to approach anything. There might be some positives out out of this. The the the side that always makes me go, what the hell is going on, is is is is is the evil stuff. It's the, you know, the the USAID stuff. It's, you know, it's that sort of thing. But we don't know. You know? And we've gotta keep our eyes open. But we've gotta protect what's important. And we've also you know, Tim was saying talking about community. The most important thing we've gotta do right now is come together with our communities. You know? It's a it's a very local focus that we need to be developing right now to sort of bring people back together again. So, but yeah. No. It's really good to talk about it. It's, it's big. It's complicated. We're here every two weeks if you wanna make sense. So and this is Tim's last season with us. So, yeah, see you guys in a couple of weeks. I was kind of ominous. We just say Tim's last season. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, what? You'll be here until he's, in, Santorini with you. I found out. Okay. But anyway yeah. So thanks everyone for joining us and, yeah, see you in a couple of weeks. Alright. Bye. Bye. Bye.