The Know Show – where do we go from here?

Since our last show, the US election happened and Cop29 kicked off, with a whole lot of other news in between. In the US, the recriminations and post-election analysis consumes our feeds, while Cop29 starts with the US threatening to leave the Paris Climate Agreement (again), Argentina ordering its representatives to leave after three days, all while reports state fossil fuel emissions have hit new highs, devastating storms continue across the world, and the cost of food continues to rise as extreme weather events destroy essential crops everywhere. To add to that, global media have been called out for reporting stories that are completely different to what people are seeing with their own eyes. How can we trust the media?

So where do we go from here? What will be the global fall-out from the US election? Which country will move to the far right next? Germany is on the line here! But trust is another massive crisis we’ve faced for decades, and the media seems intent on making it worse – so where do we go for the truth? Or has our information system become so corrupted it’s not even possible anymore? And while all this chaos escalates across our societies, scientists are continually issuing red alerts on the planetary risks – a growing food crisis, destruction from extreme weather events, ecosystems collapsing, ocean heat and its impacts, the earth’s energy imbalance and on it goes. Does it feel like we’re heading in the right direction?

To join us this week, we are delighted to welcome Dr. Damini Chawla, an award-winning professional speaker with a unique multi-cultural background and personal story fuelled by courage. Dr Damini has spent 13 years wielding drills and curing cavities, but dentistry was just the foundation for a deeper calling - human connection and behaviour. A provocateur, author, facilitator and emcee, we are looking forward to hearing her thoughts on where do we go from here?

The Livestream kicks off at 3pm Singapore time, Friday 15th November. Come and join us. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the planetary crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics and war, business and technology, social issues, and passion/humour/history. Join us. 

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To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

Andrea Edwards: 0:00

Andrea, welcome to the no show. My name is Andrea Edwards.

Unknown: 0:05

My name is Tim Wade and my name is Joe Augustin. Welcome to the show that tries to make sense of the world and hopefully give you a perspective that you did not have before you checked in with us. We also try to diversify the perspective. That's why we bring on extra guests as well. And today's guest is a dentist turned speaker and award winning speaker, creator of speak human, courageous communication for success. Would you please? Welcome to the show. Domini chowler, Dr, Damini chowder,

Andrea Edwards: 0:38

I should say. Dr, hello. Hello.

Unknown: 0:42

Thank you for having me, and thanks for that very snazzy introduction, Joe, maybe you should introduce us a little bit more to your transition. Why? Why? Why you've you've moved from Dentistry to speaking? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I always say this, and people seem to find it funny, but I'm not actually being funny when I say it, but there's got to be more to life than teeth. Was really the driver, right? And I think I've been doing this for a long time. I know I look really young, but I've actually been a dentist for a long time, and I think I just got to a point where I felt like I wasn't growing enough, and I wasn't having enough of a wider impact with just the one on one nature of the dentistry. And also, I started to realize that the part of dentistry that I loved the most was the human interaction and the connections and the relationship building and not actually causing people pain while I drill into them out. So I realized that there was actually a way that I could take my favorite bits and turn it into a second career, and I didn't have to cause people pain and be hated by them. So here we are. I was causing people pain while speaking, so I've moved away from it. I I just call it being a husband. But, you know, I do the same, yeah? Well, I'll never have that. I'll never have that, will I? So, yeah, I could never be somebody's husband. I Yeah, good. Well, welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you. It's really a different format today.

Andrea Edwards: 2:30

Yeah, we kind of, I mean, there's, there's so many things going on, it's hard to sort of grab it all. So I thought it was a really good opportunity just to look at three big things with the theme that goes all the way through, which is, where do we go from here? I know a lot of people are feeling very apprehensive out there. What does it all mean? If you're a if you're following the climate crisis or the poly crisis, it's obviously there's a lot of aspects to this. It's incredibly alarming. If you're just a human being who cares about human rights. It's alarming the geopolitical ramifications we're seeing so many different points of view, Russia, Israel, you know, all this sort of stuff. So I think a lot of people are very confused. So it's an opportunity we're not giving it. We're not coming at this from the American perspective. We're coming at it where, well, none of us are from the States. We're all sitting in Singapore. So I think there's opportunity for people outside of the US to give a view on this, because I think that's important too, not just a US perspective, yeah, fair enough.

Unknown: 3:38

All right, should we? Should we get into it? We We, we've got, like I said, a new format, and we're trying it out today, so we're going to see how it goes. So I'll just get going with the new shy, yeah, yeah,

Andrea Edwards: 3:48

but, but we're going to keep the short takes in some nice, yeah, nice short takes before we get into the serious stuff. Yeah.

Unknown: 3:56

Well, I mean it, you know, depending on your perspective, this is either not so serious or very serious. I think for people in New Zealand, this is more serious than it seems to be to people outside. The New Zealand Parliament was suspended this week for a while when a Maori MP ripped up the Treaty of Waitangi bill that was about to be voted on while leading a parliament in the haka, this included other Mari Members of Parliament, as well as people in the gallery. Look out for the footage online, and there are various versions of commentary on this. I would suggest you try and pick it all up if you can, from different perspectives. It's claimed that this bill, that the that the that the I beg your pardon, it's claimed that the the original treaty is is actually something that is, is very divisive. Sorry, I had no sleep. It's claiming to be rocking the foundations of news and the current conservative. Government has actually dispensed quite a lot of things with regards to the Maoris, so like Maori, health authority, school language programs, all those have been have been put aside for now. But the most consequential reform is about redefining the interpretation of New Zealand's foundational document. It's called the Treaty of Waitangi, and the politician who's leading this change has declared the treaty inherently divisive, and that it has led to policies divided by race. Like I said, it's a big story. The the video has gone viral. It seems like an entertaining thing, but the story behind it, really goes quite deep,

Andrea Edwards: 5:42

but it's so powerful watching that, that moment when she stands up and tears the treaty up, it's just so it sort of gives you goosebumps, right?

Unknown: 5:51

Well, she, she's definitely a bit more of an influencer. She's got this, got the she's got the attention of the youth, and she does admit that part of it is performative, because she's she's thinking about the young girls who are who are watching her as well. So it's there's a lot more going on than what, what? What most people will see. Most people will see that short video. They won't go and find out the rest of it. But if you're really interested, I would suggest two videos to check out. Are produced by the ABC, and one of them is called the the title of it is the Arden aftermath, and that kind of explains a bit more about what's been happening on the ground in New Zealand.

Andrea Edwards: 6:35

Well, you'll have to send the two articles to me, and I'll put them in the weekend read so people can dig, dig a bit deeper. Um, there's a new there's a new feminist movement on the rise, and it's called fee for B and it comes from South Korea. So I'm happy to see the Asian influence there, and basically developed in the 2010 10s during a a wave of violence against women in the country. So Australian women should obviously be jumping on this, and with Trump's win, American women are taking it on board. So 4b is shorthand for four words, starting with B and it's bi, which means no in Korean. So I'm not even going to try and say the Korean words, because I will stuff them up. But the four things are no heterosexual marriage, no childbirth, no dating, no heterosexual sexual relationships. That's actually a hard that's hard to say that if you try and say it. And of course, this isn't just about Trump. We saw very quickly after the election, some Trump supporters, like far right political activist Nick Fuentes, started posting misogynistic messages on X with the statement, your body, my choice. I don't know if you've seen that, somebody responded with his full address, so that, basically, people could go and kick the shit out of him. But anyway, it's not going down well at all. But this we're seeing it in classrooms. We're seeing some really ugly stuff happening with the black community being sent texts to say, we'll be picking you up on a white truck and taking you to the plantation. So some ugliness has arisen, but the 4b movement pay attention to that. Tim,

Unknown: 8:16

I don't understand, I don't understand what they're calling for. So they said, No heterosexual marriage, no heterosexual sexual relationships, no dating and no childbirth. Yeah, it's like,

Andrea Edwards: 8:32

I mean, if you think about, you know, what's The Handmaid's Tale, right? Women turn into baby producing machines for the ultra wealthy. So it's basically saying when, when we're not going to, we're not going back into that sort of time.

Unknown: 8:48

But what does this mean? Sorry, what does this mean for women who might want marriage and childbirth and heterosexual relationships? Do they then become othered? Or how does that

Andrea Edwards: 8:58

well, you'd hope not, right, but it, but it's, it's a movement, and you choose to join it, and it's making, it's passing a message. I guess there's something to unify behind, right?

Unknown: 9:11

Yeah, I, I mean, South Korea's got quite a patriarchal society, and so if they, if they're just saying, you know, we want our voices heard and we want to make our decisions, and we're not going to be sort of shoved into a marriage we don't want to have, then fine. I think it's also important to know that this is, this is just one of the movements, right? It's a new feminist movement. It is not the it's not the new Universal feminist movement,

Andrea Edwards: 9:43

exactly. And what another thing I saw that was interesting is the average application to divorce is usually like two or three for a lawyer, and they're about doubled and tripled in the last since the elections, because one of the risks. Says, no fault divorce. So basically, women are saying, well, I better get divorced now, because I won't be able to get divorced after so yeah, there's, there's big implications here, and women are responding to it. But it's not all. It's not every woman's going to join these movements. A lot of women voted for it, so yeah,

Unknown: 10:20

well, a less confusing still in Asia story, it's quite a cool story, actually, out of China, back in June, there was four college students sparked a trend after they chronicled on social media their evening ride to gorgeous dumplings in a nearby city, they rode bicycles 60 kilometers to enjoy famous soup dumplings. Well, it's gone viral, and it's going from strength to strength, but thanks to an excess of shared bikes, which is they can rent these bikes for as little as you know, under $3 a month. It's only it's only growing. So this is a movement that's actually literally moving. Authorities initially welcomed the wholesome revelry, but later imposed traffic restrictions after the sheer number of participants bought traffic chaos and safety concerns. The official said, you have demonstrated the willful whimsy of youth. They said this in a statement, but more and more people are starting to worry about the hidden dangers. So this group was calling themselves the night riding army, and there were 1000s of people riding to get dumplings at random places. They were taking up four lanes of a major highway. And I don't know, I love the willful whimsy of youth, yeah, in that perspective. And I guess you know, people are getting out there in the middle of the night. There shouldn't be too many people on the road anyway, but it is China, so everybody's being held up somehow. But I just think that's kind of cool. At least they call themselves the night riding army, and not like the soupy dumpling army, like, imagine that one. I mean, the super people, superheroes, that would have been cool. Superhero dumping, well, I like, I like this next story because it's actually, well, I only like it because of the part of the world that it's coming from, which is Western Australia, which is home for me. But the story itself has some implications as to, you know, I think just understanding why it's happened at all. But they found an emperor penguin 2000 miles from home on an Australian tourist beach, I believe it was in Denmark in Western Australia, so on the very southern tip of Western Australia. And this penguin has been rescued and is now being cared for by a wildlife caretaker who's apparently delighted by their new job, as I would be if I was them. But the emperor penguin, which is the largest penguin species. It's meant to be found exclusively Antarctica, in Antarctica. So how it ended up on a beach in Denmark, Western Australia, looking quite malnourished, weighing about 50 pounds, which is half of what its actual healthy male weight should be. So they are nourishing him back to health, and I'm not really sure what they're going to do with him after but good luck to the little guy. Yeah, I think it's an invasion. I mean, he is an emperor penguin. This is just, they're expanding their empire. Finally, you know, all I could think about, if you've watched the movie Madagascar, is the penguins and like how they just take over everything. Just smile and nod. Voice, smile and nod.

Andrea Edwards: 13:48

Medical, what was the one that, um, Robin Williams did the voice, uh,

Unknown: 13:51

Happy Feet.

Andrea Edwards: 13:52

Happy Feet. That's, that's, that's, that's what I was I was saying, Steve, saying, you can't be good dumplings. Tim, I hate dumplings. I just don't get I don't get dumplings. Don't get it anyway. So let's get stuck into the bigger news, and we're gonna we've got three sections, and of course, first one is US election, and I talked about it on climate courage last week, but I got it wrong, Joe, you got it right. I've spent that time since trying to understand how I got it wrong, because I think I'm good at this, good at understanding what's going on and seeing the patterns in the information space. And I think I've come up with some conclusions, but before, before we get even go there, how you guys are feeling like because some people are really, really, really taking this hard.

Unknown: 14:41

Well, I began to look at what was the good thing about it in terms of the elections, because I actually, I'm pleased that it's turned out the way it's turned out, in the sense that there is. Is a majority. The majority vote was a Trump. I'm as upset about the idea fundamentally, but I from a, from a from an intellectual perspective, I prefer that it is a majority that has voted for this because, like, someone was was in my household, was saying that, Oh, democracy has failed. And I actually said, No, this, this is democracy. This is what democracy is about. If more people show up to say they want something, they get what they want, you know? And that's part of the process, you know, again, having having the sense of whether they're they're about to fall off a cliff or something like that. That's a whole different story. There are lots of implications for us which are not great, but, yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of how I feel about it. I prefer this the way, the way it's, it's going to happen, at least in a certain aspect of it. And almost as soon as I got comfortable with it, I began to see the Cabinet appointments, and that was a second wave of anxiety. Yeah, I think for me, just looking at looking at the news, it's been really interesting, because I think, as Joe mentioned, I created this thing called Speak human and I really think about the world and people and their impact, and whether it's political or environmental, really in very wide sort of human connection terms. And I feel like Trump as an individual goes against everything that I believe in and speak about and and so I think, on a very personal human level, it feels all damning to me. But then when you really think about wider implications, and you think about political implications, and you think about economic implications, especially for the US, you know, you start to see some mild Silver Linings here and there, and I think there's just this part of me that is resigned to it, but is also hoping that there's going to just be checks and balances, somehow, somewhere, that are going to keep things on track and not allow one person to just go off and do things that we're all dreading. I'm not confident about the checks and balances, but I am confident about the change. I think there's a there's a really, there's an opportunity. It was the opportunity that was sort of alluded to in his first term that didn't quite happen, which was the sort of draining the swamp and trying to clear things up. And it looks like he's back there again, but, and he it just so there is an opportunity there. And what Joe said is, I mean, he's got complete power across everything for sort of about a year before those people seeking re election in the Senate and stuff like that, start to sort of take care of their own interests. So we can

Andrea Edwards: 18:05

do a lot of stuff, presuming there are elections, right? Yeah, okay,

Unknown: 18:10

fair enough. I mean, I think that's, that's where you've armed everybody to the teeth to for this, for that very reason, is to stop that sort of a front happening. But, but I so I find, I find that interesting. I mean, I'll say it again, it just feels like we're living through the decline and fall of the Roman Empire, and we're just watching it sort of eat itself up. But I'll throw in one sort of opinion, and before you go into your full analysis of of why it happened. My one little observation opinion about how it happened is that usually, when there's an incumbent president running for re election, usually they win because they're the seating president. They're the seated president, and the incumbent tends to hold power, and then, then it sort of flips after that. But because Biden stepped down, she wasn't the incumbent, really, and he might have ended up taking up a de facto incumbent role, weirdly enough, because he had been president before, and she was the untested one. So it kind of is a bit weird like that. So I'd be interested to hear Andrea's full analysis, but it kind of feels like that was, that was, it was sort of handed, and she hadn't been in the spotlight as much as he had. And of course, he'd been talking and preparing for four years, very obviously intending to run again. And it, and that's an unusual lead up to an election, because usually it's, you know, they go through all the voting on who's going to represent them, and then that person finally gets there, and then they start their thing. You know, it's a mud slinging before that. But, but it seemed to always be him for four years and then, and so he had, he had a lot of traction, I suppose, you know, you

Andrea Edwards: 20:11

never stopped campaigning. Yeah, right, exactly. Never stopped. Even when he was president, he was still campaigning, yeah,

Unknown: 20:17

and then so she, you know, and he's getting more media than than the current, the current people. So anyway, yeah, it seemed to be a bit like that. But what's, what's, what's your deep dive? Oh, I was

Andrea Edwards: 20:31

just going to say so when he got elected in 2016 I went into a pretty deep depression. I'm not going to define it as a medical depression, just as a complete despair for until February. It took me that long to deal with it, and that that really nothing's ever impacted me like that. Because, of course, I'm looking at all these other things and just understanding the impact and how we haven't got time for this sort of nonsense at this point in the world, right? But it hasn't. It hasn't hit me like that this time, the stupidity of this moment is so profound to me, but I do think everyone needs to be very conscious of not patronizing the people who voted for Donald Trump because they did for their reasons and and I think a big problem is people patch being patronized. And, you know, I grew up in a working class family, and the way people talk of the working class, like, if I, if I was sitting in their shoes, I'd be like, you can get stuffed. I'm not going to vote for you. I mean, Kamala Harris, I kept sitting there going, Why do you keep talking about the middle class? And then towards the end, she did start talking more about the working class, and a lot of the policies that she was talking about would benefit the working class, but, yeah, I you know, but when I listen to the post analysis, the media are fascinating, right? Their credit, their critique, because they're not being very self reflective of themselves and how they really fucked it up, essentially, right? I don't usually use the F word, but honestly, the media, they're not, they're not very self reflective, and it takes time to sort of come to these conclusions. And of course, everyone's out within 24 hours with their opinions, and it's only in the last 24 hours I've seen opinions that are aligned to what I'm I want to talk about today, which is,

Unknown: 22:26

sorry, I didn't lead on that one, yeah.

Andrea Edwards: 22:30

Which is, which is the information we're in, an information one we have been for a long time. And if people are focusing on foreign interference, and they're focusing on lots and lots and lots of different things, but actually the information war is actually also a domestic war. It's the civil war that's going on in America. So, yeah, but, but just let me step back for a bit. So I've been asking myself for a while, is authoritarianism and fashion fascism inevitable as we move through the poly crisis? Because what do voters look for simple answers to complex questions? Right? And, you know, a slogan or a tagline, you know, that's what people are looking for. And this, that's not what we're facing, you know, we've got cop 29 going on, which we're going to be talking about in a minute. So where we, as a as as the audience of politics, have decided to step out. We're not interested. You know, more than 60% of Americans don't follow the mainstream media. Yeah, Gen Z millennials, it's even lower. They're on tick tock getting their news right. So the the majority of people who voted for for Kamala are very actively engaged in political news. The majority of people who voted for Trump are completely disengaged from political news. That's that's a big that's a big difference, right? But I want to show you something. So this is a company. Remind me. Let me move this banner so we can see it properly. What are they called? Can you see it anyway? It's the media bias chart. Yeah, if you go into their website, it actually is. It goes much bigger, and the what's on the right goes much further down, and what goes on the left goes out further so basically, if you're above the green line at the top, you're telling fairly consistent truths. And as you go down to the bottom, it's basically propaganda and non truth. So this is the media landscape, mainly in the US. You can see the right wing there goes much, much further down, and there's many, many more of them. And then on the left, you can see down to the Palmer report, which is the more extreme on the left of sharing propaganda. So this is the media bias chart, and that's where the majority of people on the right are focused, right. So that's what we're being led to believe. I'm surprised where bright but sitting there. Can you see them? They're very close to that second layer. So they're not they're not that far down. So this is the media bias report, but this popped up after that, which I think is much more interesting, and this is the influence that we have in the world, right? And this is where the election was decided, and that's what we don't seem to understand. And you look at the blue dots, which is the left wing, and they've got the red dots, which are the right wing. And it's that the manosphere, basically, you know, Elon Musk, obviously, with X, you know, we know what happened there. You know, we've got Tucker Carlson, Jake, Paul, Logan Paul. I mean, I wouldn't even know these guys if I didn't have sons, but I certainly do, because I have sons. Andrew Tate, you know, he's in the manosphere. That's where the decision to vote was made. That's, yeah, yeah. With that, with this tiny, tiny, tiny blue.in the in in the blue, one of those smaller dots is Heather cock Richardson, who's an American historian. Have you ever come across her? She's, she's absolutely fabulous. She knows, she knows the whole history of American politics, but my what we haven't done, and when I say we, I say the left, because I'm I consider myself left, although I can see views on the right for what they are and when they're good. What we haven't done is built an ecosystem of information. And a lot of people, you know, in our in our own communities, they've stepped away from social media. They've stepped away from the fight. It's too ugly. They don't want to be involved in it. They don't want to speak up. And I think that is what the problem is. So this has been growing and growing and growing in its influence. It's got the young boys, Latino and Black men, men voters, obviously white male voters, but women voters too. But this is, this is the place where the election was won, and until we start recognizing that and building our own ecosystem of information, but also getting our ecosystem of information supported, because when everyone's disappearing from social media, when everyone's disappearing from the conversation, because it's too ugly, all those people in the blue dots, and including people like us, who are working so hard to try and get people to listen, to understand the complexity of this time, to to vote in the right way for all of us. If we're not going to get supported, then we're not going to we're not going to keep showing up, and this red influence keeps growing. So that's that's my biggest takeaway. And then I just saw a piece last night in the editorial board, and I had come across the editorial board. It's in the weekend reads, it's called Donald Trump campaign against reality and won. And, you know, and it's a fantastic article in this piece called flux, flux community. Why Trump won. Democrats have a coalition. Republicans have an ecosystem, and it's the ecosystem that's a really important bit, because it's not just sharing information, it's also communities. So there's professional communities. So you can go and be part of a professional community, and you get job opportunities, and you get career opportunities. So you know, this is, this is where the left basically got it wrong. And what they're saying is, the Democrats focused on tactics and well, everything was good, you know, there was no question, but the tactics and their strategy is obsolete in this world. And that was the real point they were talking about and then in the Hartman report. So these are all on my weekend. Reads, class warfare needs to be called. And that's the other thing, you know, like, like I said, everyone's walking away because it's too ugly. Well, I'm sorry, but if we don't, we don't get in this fight, we're not, certainly not going to stand a chance of winning it. And everyone's got to stop being so nice and polite. You know, it's been positioned as a war on woke and woke lost. I don't agree with that. I think, I think the Republicans have gas lit the hell out of everyone, like, really, it's been the most outstanding effort from a gaslighting perspective. But here's what leftists have been called by Republicans, pointy hinted, pointy headed intellectuals, Ivy ivory tower elites, Egghead eggheads, limousine liberals, champagne socialists, latte liberals, the wine and cheese crowd, coastal elites, tax and spend liberals, bleeding hearts do gooders, tree huggers, environmental wackos, lip tards, communists and even feminazis. But the Democrats have no response. They have no words that they can use, and if they do attack, as Kamala started to do then, then the feedback was, Oh, you shouldn't. You shouldn't do that. So it's like. Yeah, we're, we're, it's a it's an imbalanced war. But I think we've got to get tough. And if we don't want fascism and authoritarianism to lead, I think everyone's got to start understanding that we are, we're at the beginning of a geopolitical shift that is going to send shock waves around the world. I believe it's, you know what? We got to get strong and resilient and courageous, because we got to get ready for the fight of our lives. Because I think it is. But yeah, I just, you know, it's time to take the gloves off and stop playing nice. And we have been playing nice, but don't give up hope. I always knew that we needed to have a cataclysm happen before we all woke up and started moving in the right direction. And I think if this isn't the cataclysm, I don't know what is. It's time to fight. It's time to get strong. It's time to stop pretending it's going to be business as usual, because it's not. The times ahead are going to be tough. They're going to be hard. You know, economic fallout. If the economists say, What, what's going to happen, happens, it's going to impact everyone on the planet. Are you ready for it? You know, pay attention. Invest in the news that matters. Spend time with news. Understand these guys and what they're saying, you know. So that's kind of my initial rant, there you go.

Unknown: 31:27

Well, you know, I think the main thing for me was the Democrats have a massive branding problem that stops them from being able to do all those things, right? So the analogy that I was kind of trying to think of was this, right? Just imagine missionary Rambo. It doesn't quite work, right? And I'm sorry you were drinking water while doing that as well. Domini. So the idea is they can't do the hard stuff. They can't do the hard stuff because they've talked themselves into the corner, right? Because the brand that is the capital D, right? It's, it's, it's big D, it's, it's, it's one where you are supposed to be more mindful of everybody else. You're considerate, you you're thoughtful, you are, you are you are nuanced, and all those different things. So you can't just come out and say, You idiot, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't do all those things. And that's the big situation that they've gone in terms of branding so they can't make those bold steps. And the challenge that they actually had was completely about not understanding what America is, right? I mean, it's about, you know, as you were going through the list of of nicknames that were being used, I agreed with about half of them, you know, yeah, like, well, I don't drink wine anymore. You know, there are a lot of people who fit those, those those those names and in terms of behavior, in terms of how they behave, in terms of what, what they hold as values as well. There is a sense of elitism. There is a better than thou. There is a there is a tendency to lean. I mean, it is about education. And yes, education brings you across a certain line, but the sense that, therefore the uneducated are not to be as respected. And I think this election really was about respect the when I when I listened to interviews on the ground and conversations you could get, you could get a very, very simple idea across. You could hear a very simple idea across. The Democrats were always speaking in a way that was above the heads of a large part of the population. Which is above the heads it was, it was about. These are the important things. These are the even the things that they were campaigning about were some of the higher the they were put in higher terms the battle for democracy. If you're trying to defend democracy, it's not something that resonates. It's just not, you know, whereas the same thing that we're trying to say was actually, we're fighting for freedom, and they never used that as the message. It was always about this higher idea, you know. So the Democrats, unfortunately tried to take for me, especially, you know, you're right about the world that they're in currently, the world that they're in currently is a world where it really is about me. It's about how I feel my life and how I compare myself, because we've never been in a world where we are faced with how our neighbors are doing more than before, right? I mean, this is what social media is about. It's every moment you're given a reference point to see how. Somebody else lives, whether they're better off or not. And usually what happens on social media is you're going to see the better side of things, so you're going to feel you're a little bit behind. You're not going to be doing as well. And when someone comes along and says to you a simple message that is about you can be better. We can do this. We can fix that. You know, without giving the details, they're more attractive because it fits, it fits the kind of consumption people have right now. If I were to sit in the corner and say, like, look, listen, I can solve the world's problems, sit down with me for three hours. I'll tell you all about it. It's not going to be as attractive to put me in charge. I'll fix it. And that's really what Trump was saying. And the background is years and years of neglect, actually, of the American people by the lawmakers. So it didn't matter whether it was Republicans or Democrats in charge, if you roll the clock back a few years, because both sides were letting them down. They weren't saying the things that were on the minds of the broader population, they weren't really being they weren't being rude, right? And now you have the ability to do that, and it's just a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, timing of it, this is the time for it, and it's not it. I would say America isn't leading the charge in this particular way. It's been happening elsewhere in the world, but this, I think now it's the most significant domino that's fallen, and I'm concerned in that way. You know, I actually had this analogy for my family. Is it like, what's happened in the world right now? Is there, is, there's neighborhood, and then there's this, this, there is this, this house where they have everything America is going to be great because now they're just going to have their barbecues, let the smoke go everywhere, they're going to play loud music and drive the big trucks, and that's okay for them. Life for them is going to be great, but the rest of the neighborhood now has a combination of issues to deal with. Okay, they have all this extra pollution that that's going to be a problem, and I think, more importantly, as well, the rest of the people in the neighborhood who might like to live a life without loud music and smoke coming over the, you know, from your neighbor's side and all that they don't have the power anymore, because it used to be that the US was the one who was the more influential neighbor they were the Martha Stewarts of that particular enclave, they helped kept things civil, and now that they've given up, it also gives room for other neighbors to give up. So that's, that's, that's my concern. The neighborhood's going to the dogs.

Andrea Edwards: 38:09

Interesting. The point about respect, I think it's respect one way, but it wasn't both ways.

Unknown: 38:16

Well, if you ask me, if you ask me about about, what if you said, was there a side that disrespected the other side more in the US, I think you'd have to say the Democrats, the Democratic you know, if you said someone was likely to be disrespecting someone who had different views from them, I would, I would say, actually, the Democrats probably more guilty of that.

Andrea Edwards: 38:46

But were they disrespectful, or did the Republicans gaslight them and make it out that it was the Democrats being respectful? Because that was the that was the thing that kept coming up, like it was like, Oh, wait, that they're talking about us this way. No, they're not. You're being told they're talking about you this way, and then you're sitting in these funnels and these algorithms of information, and you're believing what you're being told.

Unknown: 39:14

I think there's a combination of smoke and fire, right? I think there is enough, enough of the embers of it, and there's enough smoke for it to to be true enough. I mean, you have more prominent. You have more prominent, you know, I guess it's when someone prominent behaves a certain way and shows you something and gives you a reason for something to be said. Then you go, like, Oh, there you go. That's that, that's, that's, that's the way they're thinking again. And you know, part of it, it's a very difficult situation because, you know what, it's exists because of the lack of education or lack of interest in the non. Village as well. And, you know, like, one of the big searches after, actually, the day before, I think, the elections, was actually, did Biden drop out of the race? I mean, it's, it's the level to which the broader population did not know what was going on was tremendous. And that's what the US is about, right now, right and, and I disagree with the, I disagree with that chart where Elon Musk is the big influence. You know, I think, I think you can't play down the Joe Rogan effect, because you know, when you're when you're seated with someone for three hours, and it doesn't sound like it's completely crazy. And there's some good ideas, and you hear socially that you know what, this might be a good idea that could have really, really made a difference. And I put it down to that last minute push. I mean, look, if you talk about the campaign right? Yeah, I don't I, I think in terms of, you talk about the people, people see on the radar, they think it's an important. They see as important. They don't realize less important or not important. You know, the campaign that that Trump ran right at the end, I mean, seriously in terms of the amount of energy he put in a number of appearances and all that kind of stuff. I mean, I have to say he ran a campaign. I mean, that was the last, the last two weeks of that campaign. The last week of that campaign was an incredible run. It was it was it was, you know, putting yourself out there to the people that mattered, and the Joe Rogan numbers and I mean, you can't, you can't put that aside with a significant the reach of that particular podcast was significant, and it was well used time. If you think about it, it's three hours. It's, can you spare three hours in a campaign at that, you know? And ultimately, that's what I think, that the dividends paid off, you know, I thought there was a significant moment with that garbage truck. Yeah, I thought there was, it was a, it was very well played. It was a, I thought it was like a master stroke of moving from copying it to dishing it out. But I thought Biden's gaffe and their attempt to say, No, I didn't say that. I only meant that guy just basically meant that they were untrustworthy.

Andrea Edwards: 42:48

That's the point, right? Trump says stuff like that all the time, and it's accepted. And there's one gaffe, and everyone's distancing themselves from it. I'm like, stand behind your words. You know, Bernie Sanders speaks the truth. He just says it like it is. AOC is getting huge props. She speaks the truth. Pete, Buttigieg, but he, I can't even say surname, I mean, he's been fantastic, right? Buttigieg here, I mean, he's been fantastic, right? And what? For some reason the self censoring of the Democrats so they don't come across as authentic. So we're going to vote for authenticity. You know that that sort of message? You know, it's like, yeah, right, what were you going to say?

Unknown: 43:31

I was myself censoring what you were saying as well. I think Andrea that just, I think people want simple answers to complex problems, right? And where they want simple answers to complex problems. And there's someone there who's saying a lot of nonsense, quite often, frankly, but then is saying it in a simplistic way that makes sense to the average person's simplistic mind. It still feels more aligned to the average person than hearing the Democrats give really long winded, really thought out politically correct responses that don't feel real and don't feel authentic. So how do you then connect with that and vote for that? Yeah, no, I thought there was two, two really interesting things that sort of came to mind during this whole thing. One is, Will American politics? How long will it take for political parties to put up another female candidate now that two have not been able to get over the finish line,

Andrea Edwards: 44:46

but that's the wrong question to ask again, right? We lost. We lost because of woman. No, you lost. I

Unknown: 44:53

totally agree. I agree to put

Andrea Edwards: 44:55

the right people forward, right? Yeah.

Unknown: 45:01

I just, I just, it concerns me. And then the other one is if, if Trump is only going to stay for a single term, how will he manage a transition to a How will he do succession planning, other than, you know,

Andrea Edwards: 45:26

I like the design, but, you know, do you think you'll even get into it through a term? Do you even think it

Unknown: 45:34

could be president JD Vance? Exactly which was, which was the big fear that I expressed, actually, that that, that is the great concern that I have. You know someone, someone not as transparent as Trump,

Andrea Edwards: 45:50

yeah. And, you know, there's three South Africans basically looking like they're going to be running America, yeah, along with Vivek,

Unknown: 46:02

yeah, I was

Andrea Edwards: 46:04

gonna say geopolitically, like when we look when we look wider. So I've seen some pieces on China. China's gonna suffer. China's not gonna suffer. China's ready for Trump version 2.0 Putin, obviously, we saw the media where the first thing they did was put up the nude shots of millennia on their national broadcast channel in Australia. They're talking about whether Kevin Rudd can still be the ambassador in America, because Trump doesn't like him. So what the American President chooses the Australian Ambassador? Are we going to do that? Is the world going to unite and just say, all right, America, we're just going to leave you to your own devices, sort yourself out, and we're all going to get focused and move forward. What do you guys what are you guys saying? It's

Unknown: 46:48

going to be about business ultimately, in the end, right? It's just really about the ease of business. I think the stock market gives you a real sense of what they think is about to happen. It's about the ease of business between countries as well, and what finally gets worked out. So if you talk about poorly chosen, you know, strategies or tactics regarding the regarding trade, for instance. I mean, look, the whole, the whole idea is that if you got to put tariffs on everything, it's going to be it's going to be bad for America. And everybody believes that that if that becomes the plan, or that's what happens, that will be, that will be what America is going to face. Trump is famous for doing a small number of things that they want, that that he promises to do, right? And I think economically, the US is going to do very well. I think it's going to be very much a tempered approach to working on trade. It will be a lot of bluster as far as trade is concerned, but it will not be as significant as I think what the main theatrics will be about, which is things like the forced repatriation of illegals, right? I think that's going to be the big show. That's going to be the thing that's going to help people feel that something is being done about something while I think the economy actually currently is in pretty good shape, and if they can just manage to let it go in auto gear for a while, it's gonna actually pay off really well. So I wrote down this sentence earlier this morning that I think the rhetoric may be worse than what will actually happen. So I think there's a lot of this is just me being really hopeful, I think. But yeah, I think to sort of just reiterate what Joe said. I think you know there's going to be that he's going to do. He is going to do things optically that look like they have really big impact. But as long as the economy and the geopolitical sort of implications, and they might not be as big as the actual words that are being used around it, hopefully,

Andrea Edwards: 49:15

I like your optimism.

Unknown: 49:18

We'll talk again soon.

Andrea Edwards: 49:21

So Debbie, I didn't give you a chance to just the earlier topic that we were talking about, sort of your sort of big sort of takeaways. Did you want to say anything before we jumped on the geopolitical side? Oh, no,

Unknown: 49:33

no. I mean, look, honestly, just looking at Trump, I think his second administration. I mean, it's, it looks like it's basically just being staffed with loyalists, and he just has an agenda, and he's just appointing people that are going to enact his agenda. And, you know, that's what this is about. And he doesn't really care about conventional political opinion. And he doesn't really care about the rest of the world. And you know, I was having a conversation the other day and and there's a part of me that says, Actually, he is America's President. He's not the world's president. And while him being America's President has massive implications on the rest of the world, he might actually not be that bad for America economically, you know. And I think that's really, really, there's a lot of like, asterisks there, you know, but I think that's really what it comes down to. And I think it is, it is just what it is. And I think there's, it's such a complex web of situations that has got us to where we are, and it seems so incomprehensible, I think, to so many of us that we have ended up here. And speaking to American friends who are living in Singapore, a lot of them are just devastated, and they have this very strong sort of feel that they have no intention or desire to go back to the US in its current state. But you know, there's worse things happening in the world actually, and this may not be as big a problem as we think it's going to be. So he might just come and go and things keep ticking over. So we'll see.

Andrea Edwards: 51:21

Yeah, well, I don't think Israel is going to be

Unknown: 51:25

Tim's face. And I was just, I don't know if you saw me, but I'm just like soothing my lines and thinking about the Botox I would need because I was frowning like this the whole time three of you were talking. So go ahead, Tim, your face is saying something. Yeah. I can't remember why I made the face. Now, things aren't going to be as bad as I mean, okay, it Yeah, okay. I can't remember why I made the face. It was just, and it's, it just seems like the cabinet, yes, loyalists, but the cabinet is being stocked with people who are going to take a lot of attention away from what's happening behind the scenes. And so there'll be a lot of spotlights on all of these people doing their their stuff, and their big moments of, oh my gosh, you know, 80% of the people are gone here and this and that has happened, and everything else that you can be signing bills in the background that are very detrimental, that may not Get the news coverage, because now there's sort of four Trumps, you know, all doing crazy things that is getting the spotlight. So it just seems that way. I mean, already we're seeing it with, you know, RFK Jr, in charge of health. You know, it's just like you're, you're muted, mate, you're muted. Andrea,

Andrea Edwards: 53:07

what the fast food? The fast food sort of focus? I don't mind. It's the, it's the anti Vax focus that,

Unknown: 53:14

yeah, I've

Andrea Edwards: 53:14

got, I've got an aunt who's lived, had to live with polio her whole life, and we don't want that back in the world, you know. So that sort of stuff bothers me. I love Germany's optimism, but I'm I'm not seeing it economically. Republicans are always a disaster. They always are. And the Democrats bring it back, and then the Republicans pull it apart, and then they bring it back, and it's like, it's this back and forth. I think the tech Bros and the crypto guys, you know, they're all rubbing their hands together excited about this, which has been a bit disappointing for me. Human Rights below wealth accumulation kind of, sort of, it's a bit of a strong signal, you the youth vote, which should have obviously been about their future, wasn't but, you know, there's only 1.5% between the two the final sort of tallies are sort of starting to come in. So it's not a landslide, like it was first position. It's only 1.5% between the two parties. So that's a very divided America, and there's people who are truly, truly scared, you know, medical assistants, veterans, with their health care and retirement funds, obviously, people who are illegal immigrants, or even if their parents were illegal immigrants and their their citizens, they could still be kicked out the the Democrats have kicked out more immigrants than than the Republicans. And I think Tim's absolutely right, the show is, is what everyone watches, while the real stuff's going on behind. And I think we've, and that's, you know, we live in a world where everyone likes the show, the 32nd sound bite, and it's, yeah. Yeah, we got, we got to grow up, and we've got to, you know, this information place that we're all existing in is not serving us, and we're buying into it's harm by not paying attention. Joe, so

Unknown: 55:16

I've been, I've been bravely optimistic until here. But let me, let me, let me talk about, what is the real, you know, like, like the real danger at hand. The real danger is that this is not 2016 This is not a situation where Trump is going into an administration that has guard rails in place, that has adults in the room, shall we say? Right? So it it's a situation where the Supreme Court has basically said anything done in the name of as a as an executive, or at least in the in the in the execution of the role of president, is legal. And that is truly frightening, because it would mean that even if he does something wrong, you'd have to challenge it. It has to be something that has to be, you know, it's not just common sense that that's not allowed, right? So the the kinds of things that are in place right now, that's what is kind of scary, as in, you know, that's, that's what the President can do. The flip side of that thought experiment for me has been this, what if Joe Biden, when went rogue right now, because he has a protection of the Supreme Court? Yeah, just, just a thought, but, yeah,

Andrea Edwards: 56:40

but it's but it's being discussed in very much, and people are saying, Where are you, Joe, what are you doing? Come on, you know, we've only got a few months, and apparently there's lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that no one's hearing about. So, yeah, don't sit in the fear. Don't see any fear of the future, but, but keep your eye open, you know. But we've got, we've all got to be keeping our eyes open. That's yeah,

Unknown: 57:02

which is, I mean, I think one American holiday to the Bronx. Should I cancel my holiday to the Bronx? No Go, Tim, and then tell us all about it. If you live to tell us all about it. I'm not even the challenge, I think that that is facing America right now is this that it is, it is a test of the free market that they believe so much in, you know, I think really it is that, and ultimately, you know, we can say that all the, all the levers are in place to try and steal the entire country. I mean, look, it really is something that's set up, that's possible to go but the question is whether or not that can happen. And one of the advantages, I think, that the US has it is has this large population, you know, and again, they the population can be its own check and balance, as happened this time around, really, because the, you know, politicians basically failed America, and so the check and balance came in the form of this latest election result. And again, the market then we'll have to show itself. What happens beyond here. How do you access the market? It's all a big marketing challenge. You have to try and get, you know, elected all that kind of stuff. We'll see. I mean, look, it's, in the end, you have to, you have to hurt all the cats, right? It's, it's, it's a lot of cats,

Andrea Edwards: 58:35

yeah. I think the other important point to note is that the especially the whole Musk tech, bro, crypto, sort of that whole push. It's about maintaining the status quo, and the status quo is what got us into this problem in the first place. So when Musk is saying things like, we need, we need, basically alpha males or superior males, whatever the word, I can't remember what he used to come together and run the country. It's like, No, we don't. That's not, that's not going to help us succeed. It's actually going to take us backwards. Because, you know, GDP of countries go go up when, when, when you have true Dei. So the whole war against Dei? Well, if you go to war with Dei, you're going to war against yourself. Everyone's happier. Everyone has more opportunity. It's, you know, it's great. It's great for societies, you know. So the that's, that's probably the thing that sort of bothers me, but I wanted to say, so don't sit in fear of the future and what's going to come. Like, keep your eyes open. Pay attention. Look for the nuance. Like, we can't be lazy, right? We can't be distracted, we can't be running after shiny things. We can't be expecting to understand complex things in 32nd soundboards. It doesn't that's not the world we live in, and we haven't for a long time, but people are still distracted. But protect democracy wherever you are, and so you know the info. Nation ecosystem, wherever you are is important. Germany is potentially the next country that could go right if you're not paying attention their their whole government is collapsing, which is really quite remarkable. I think it's really time for our leaders. And we are all leaders. So you know, just to start talking the truth, you know, using using stronger words. Stop being so polite because they're not, you know. And we got we got it, and start getting a bit harsher, and we've got to open ourselves up to the the attacks that come with that. I think we do, like I always say, pay attention to the information that matters. Brace for impact. I'm not optimistic at all, because it's not just the US government and what's happening to in the US. It's not just global geo politics. It's the escalation of environmental catastrophes, which we're seeing right now. Honduras is just getting hammered. Nicaragua is just getting hammered. You wouldn't know about it, because we're only paying attention to what's going on in Spain, Italy and Portugal. Philippines has just had its fourth typhoon in three weeks. It's never happened before. You can imagine for the poor Filipinos going through that sort of stuff. So Grace for impact in all sorts of ways. Australia is trying to do a law on misinformation, what's, what's the what's the phrase, it's not misinformation. But basically, no, it's the end of the world. No, no, no, it's not. I don't think it's the end of the world, but it's, it's not going to be easy. You know, Australia is trying to tackle the whole misinformation, disinformation crisis, and I don't know if you saw Musk basically said to Europe, you know, you know not Musk Vance said to Europe, you need to be letting must do whatever he wants with the with with his ex platform, and you need to follow our idea of free speech. So, you know, we've talked about it a lot that what that's got to be tackled, right? It's a huge problem. The algorithms, Yuval no Hari is talking a lot about it, really understanding how they work, how they feed. There was someone on LinkedIn yesterday who shared a video of the places where she comes from, in Italy, and she said, while she was searching on YouTube for news to make sure her family was safe. She was being advertised products that are destroying the environment, or she was being pushed videos that were talking about hating Muslims, because she was in Amsterdam, and it was following the rights in Amsterdam. So you know, she's she was basically talking about, here I am trying to understand the pain that my community is experiencing, and I'm being presented with the cause of the problem, which is why they're suffering from the pain. So I actually think there's another thing that we could be doing here. We all need to massively reduce our consumption, every single one of us, every middle class person on the planet. So this is a really good time to do it. Don't buy any more than five new items of clothing a year. Don't don't upgrade to an EV start using public transport. Don't fly. Don't go on cruises. Stay home. Build a community around you. Plan a garden. You know, we all need to be doing that. And mate, if everybody got behind that idea, can you imagine the impact? It's going to have on the global economy or the country economy? And the final thing is, be kind. You can't let people turn you into an asshole because they're being them. I just, you've, you know, when I walk out in the street, I'm just so nice to people, even if they're horrible to me, you know, just smiling, ha, ha, you know, and then that you get that attitude. So my sons are trying to understand how I can do that, because for them, it just makes them angry. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, because, then, because, then we're just being them. So why would you want to be them? So gotta be kind, and let's come together and fight like hell. You know, this is this the cataclysmic result we needed to turn the world around and wake us all up. I hope so. I hope so. I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. So let's, let's get going, because we've got it. So that's my conclusion.

Unknown: 1:04:12

I just booked my Greek cruise. Terrible. Muriel, hilarious. Yeah, yeah. And my my Uniqlo package should be turning up soon. So, yeah, I I, and the reason why I said that is I think there's an element of people have got dreams and aspirations that that may not include consuming less or or not doing that, that that trip, um. And so I think there's a responsibility, there's a way that we can respond, that that isn't necessarily one of doom, gloom and hardship. I love the kindness message, and I think that Why

Andrea Edwards: 1:05:15

does doing less pain? Why is doing less hardship? I mean, I've been we've been shrinking our impact for a number of years. And I'm finding it very, very joyful. You know?

Unknown: 1:05:26

I'm finding simplifying very joyful. I'm finding like, I just had a thing pop up, you know, your your domains are about to expire, and I was like, Well, I don't need them anymore. And I've never needed them. I don't know why. Renewing them for the last 6000 years, and that's not really damaging the planet. It's just damaging my wallet because it's a domain.

Andrea Edwards: 1:05:49

But digital takes energy, right? Yeah. But I mean, you know,

Unknown: 1:05:54

reserving a name and paying for it doesn't is not really doing much. So are you saying that cruise clown.com is going to be available right now. No tips. Speaking, dot tips will be I was thinking about auctioning off at APSs, but yeah, cruise clown, yeah, that's a good one. I'll see if that's available. The Yeah, I I just think that. I think that message, if you, if you ran an election based on that message, I'm not sure how many people are going to take it, even though that there is an important you know what I mean, there's important stuff to do.

Andrea Edwards: 1:06:35

I know exactly what you mean. But the reality is, this is where we are, right? If we want to stop the escalation of the climate crisis, then we need to massively reduce our impact on this planet. We're in overshoot, and we have been for a long time. We're taking too many resources off the planet, and the planet's going all right. Here you go. So it doesn't we decide to do it or we don't decide to do it one way or another. I've already accepted both, right? And understand the consequences of both, so we either decide to do it or we don't, and we accept the consequences. So, and I don't think we're really going to be like if you look at the way the people of Valencia are responding, they're really, angry about it, right? But this is a consequence of our over consumption. It's not just the oil industry, it's not just the finance industry, it's all of us and all of the industries that we buy into that there's just too much. Six generations of clothing is on this planet for the next six generations, right? We're we're buying too much, we're consuming too much, we're taking too much, and then we've got to come to terms with that, and you can get on that cruise, but you know, you know, cruising, every single cruise line, it destroys the environments where it turns up, but then the people in those environments where it turns up say, but we don't want to stop the cruises, because we need it for the for the income, because we've got to feed our we've got to feed our families, right, right? But the cruise ships will stop at some point. Everything will stop. At some point,

Unknown: 1:08:11

what is that point, though? What? What is that point when things will stop, and what is it that will eventually shift in the human psyche that will allow us to be okay with less, because so much of human consumption is like, if you really go into deeply rooted psychology, so much of the human consumption is about how it makes us feel and what, how it makes us see ourselves, and you know, our sense of identity and who we are and what we're worthy of and what we're worth, right? Where do you create that shift, and are we so privileged to be sitting here in our homes with our nice laptops and tech having this conversation? How does this really apply to the average person or the below average person who's not got access to all of this. So

Andrea Edwards: 1:09:07

the below average people who don't have access to all of these aren't the people who are the problem.

Unknown: 1:09:12

Can you say that? But they are also the people who are buying. I mean, you know, Tim made a funny joke about UNIQLO. I don't even think that these are people who are buying mass clothes. These are, you know, they're shopping at, I don't know what the equivalent is. Australia, we've got big W and KMart and Target, and it's just mass produced, cheap stuff, right? And that's not the clothing and the plastic. It's all going into it. That's

Andrea Edwards: 1:09:42

not the 1.3 billion people at the bottom of the global society who don't have technology, who don't have access to what we have access to. Cheyenne temu, all those big fast fashion companies have got jets stuffed full of clothes going to the US and. It and Australia, yeah, where people are buying 1020, 30 items of clothing, right? And maybe keeping one and chucking the rest in the bin, where they end up on on a, you know, in in Chile, or on a beach in Africa, you know? Yeah, I agree

Unknown: 1:10:15

with you. So it's that bad, right? It's not, it's not the bottom may not be the very top. It's that middle start at

Andrea Edwards: 1:10:22

the very top, but, but the middle, the middle bands, are the ones that are their behaviors are bringing that real pollution, that that the fast fashion pollution, the micro plastic pollution, you know, the plastic bottles, plus, you know, that's in and that's just escalating. You know, there's, there's a new series on new thing on Netflix called something about buying. I haven't had a chance to watch it. It's just gone live, yeah, and it just shows buildings, which is waste just pouring out of it. And that's what we're all doing. We're all just contributing, right?

Unknown: 1:10:53

I completely agree with you. I guess my point is, how does that, does that shift start with you and me? Like, is it really a one person thing? Is that is there, at what point do people actually or societies change? Not people, I know exactly when the point is. It's when you're facing your retirement and you need to not spend so much money. But weirdly enough, there the the developed world is, is got a population that's heading into that particular category anyway, although, strangely enough, if they've got enough in their savings, they're getting on cruise ships. But the Yeah, so it's, it's, it's about conditioning. I think we've been conditioned to be consumers, because that's that was the economic play. The economic play is, if everyone's putting money into the bloodstream of the country, the country will keep chugging along and can borrow money. And I mean, America's in so much debt, that could be the other moment when people start saying, Well, no, you know, you can't do that anymore, or the American dollar loses its ability to be the one that controls, you know, global markets, and it shifts to some sort of basket of currencies, rather than the US dollar. But that's, you know, whenever that happens, I think that there might be some possibilities of of seismic geopolitical shifts, but at the moment, the bricks are on the move, the dollar,

Andrea Edwards: 1:12:27

yeah, the bricks are on the move, and a lot of America's debts sitting in China, right? So, but Dominique, so I've been spending a long, many years trying to work out how to wake people up, right? And I don't know what the shift is because I've sat I've walked along beautiful beaches that are covered in trash, and watch people sit amongst the trash enjoying their beautiful holiday and they don't see it. I watch people get up from a lunch table and their individual lunch there's 510, pieces of plastic on the table that they've left behind for somebody else to clean up, and they don't see it, you know. So I don't know how to make people see it, and I've been trying to help people see it for a really long time. So I don't know what the shift is. We're being marketed a world that's incompatible with a healthy planet. And I see I see that every day, every billboard, every ad on social media. I'm like, people don't see it, you know? And, yeah, people want more. And you know, the idea that people's prestige is attached to it, and the data is very conclusive that that's not the truth people. It doesn't make people happier. The information system that we exist in doesn't make people happier. All this technology that was supposed to make our lives easier has not made our lives easier. People who's sitting in this rage at their neighbor, or that, you know, the other ring or what, they're not happier, you know. So at some point we're going to, hopefully going to go, maybe we haven't built the right world.

Unknown: 1:14:03

Well, the world, the world is the world is just fine. It's the human beings that live in it that are kind of faulty, right? I mean, that's, that's, you know? We can, we can know that if everybody engages in personal development and finds their inner peace and doesn't need to have things to make them happy, that the world will be better off. You know, we know all those things. And I was thinking now about a solution, because you were asking about, when will this come? I think what can happen is that if we figure out a way for the real price of things to become more obvious. I think if you can have, if there's a way for consumption to be less opaque, right? Right now, consumption is very opaque, because all you do is pay a price and it shows up, and the rest of that is behind. You know, the opacity protects it from, from from being felt. But the. The idea that you know, that the real cost of things becomes more apparent, right? I mean, I'll give you an example. My, my, we rather enjoy cashew nuts, right? And my wife shared with me a video of the the cashew industry in India and how terrible it is, and how people are harvesting that. And they've got, you know, their hands go black from the acid, and that's the life that they have. It's, it's subsistence living, you know, it's not very good. It made it clearer to me the real cost of what, you know, I'm doing. And I think the second thing that can go that goes along with that also is this thing about the cost needs to be apparent to other people as well, right? So a long time ago, when I was when I was actually asked to be on the smoking cessation committee here in Singapore, one of the ideas I put up, which was not adapted, was the idea of a campaign that basically made other people the police, that made other people looking at you in a certain way sort of be a way to check your behavior that you'd absolutely have to be totally confident of yourself and secure for you to go ahead and do something that everybody else felt wasn't a good thing. And I think most people are actually like, like, you know, it actually, it actually addresses the problem of consumption. We usually are consuming and doing something because it helps us feel better about ourselves. It brings it elevates us. And if over consumption itself could then become the thing that makes us lose, you know, status in the world, then that would be, I think that would be a better situation. I'm not taking sides here, but I do have a question. I usually do so when you stop consuming cashew nuts, right? Yeah, and say all of us stop consuming cashew nuts, and suddenly there's not as much of a demand for cashew nuts coming out of India, and that industry starts to suffer. What are the long term repercussions on those people that work in that industry, and where do they go from there?

Andrea Edwards: 1:17:17

Yeah, but yeah, and I'm

Unknown: 1:17:18

not saying that it justifies that. No,

Andrea Edwards: 1:17:20

it's a really good question. It's the same with child labor, right? Like, people talk about it, and it's like, sometimes that's the only way that family is going to eat, right? And, you know, we have to have empathy on the ground, but at the same time, like, what's the what's the environmental impact on cashews in India, based on all of the extreme weather events that they've been experiencing, I think it was 93% of days of the for the first nine months of this year, India has had an extreme weather event for 93% of the time. So other cashews even still growing but but what we have to do is accept paying more so that the workers can have a higher standard of work, but we're not willing to pay more, because everyone wants things cheap. That's that's the mindset, and in Asia, that mindset is so much stronger than the rest of the world. Like when I first came here, that's what people will talk about. It's cheap, it's cheap, it's cheap. I'm like, but yeah, it's not it's not good.

Unknown: 1:18:17

Why? Yeah. Why is it cheap?

Andrea Edwards: 1:18:20

Yeah, yeah. Question,

Unknown: 1:18:22

going back to cost. So the word, you know, this is about, and this is an economics question, really, is, how do you, how do you create a system that reflects cost more accurately and that, and I think if you can, if you can do that, you can have $1 cost, you can have a human cost, you can have whatever. And you know, it's not going to stop everything from happening. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's just about putting some friction in the right place to create the behaviors that will be useful to us. I I think to try to just replace everything that's I don't think we can do that. I think there's too much based on how it generally works. I mean, the society is what it is because it is the sum total of what human beings do, right? It's how, it's how the the success, so to speak, came out of it. It's how we satisfied our need for status. And you know, it's the natural hierarchy that happens. It's something that we can't avoid. We need it. It's part of the way we work, right? So you think

Andrea Edwards: 1:19:30

it's going to keep going the way it's going. I

Unknown: 1:19:33

think, I think what it is is going to be, we can, we can. We can fix it if we can change the story, right? And I know that sounds very biased, because I coach stories, but you know, it really is about the frame that you put around things right? If you remember the story that was very powerful when we were growing up that made us maybe feel responsible, or at least made it made us feel like we had to finish our food, was because somebody else. In the world was, was starving, and your mom was very on about that, right? And it was enough moms got together, and they all had this, this thing, and it led, you know, led me to being fat, but, you know, but that that's the kind of thing that we can if we could get the story, you know, get people better at communicating stories as well and shaping it like, like, if you look again, back to the US election, right? This was about a story, the story that made it possible for this particular outcome, right now, that story, that frame. Now, whether or not this story is true, that's this whole different thing. But whether it's believed or subscribed to, that's the, that's the that's real issue. So if we can subscribe to a different story, figure out how to communicate that story and how to how to connect the dots for people, then people can become more aware of it. And I think the other thing we need to do also is figure out how not to be so absolutist about everything, right? How if I, if I do this, I'm this or that, I can't be both at the same time. I mean, you know, like we probably look at things and make jokes about people who are part time vegetarians, but that's a good thing if you're a part time vegetarian, as opposed to a full time, you know, carnivore, right? I mean, that's, that's, it's, it's good for the environment. If we can do that, can we accept it? Can we say this is pretty good? You know, if you're, if you're, if somebody, if somebody has some, some, some behavior that really isn't all that good, they start making some improvements. Do we not then say that's, that's a good thing, or do we say, yeah, no, you're still, you're still, you're still, you're still, you're still scum, because you're doing the other thing, right? So I do feel that we have to kind of figure out how to make people just capable, more capable of one

Andrea Edwards: 1:21:51

of one of my lines there, Joe is, we need a billion people changing him perfectly, right? And it's because it's not about, you know, when I remember eating chicken in front of a vegan, and they attacked me for it. And I'm like, I'll go away. Leave me alone, please. I'm doing so much here, and I'm going to enjoy this chicken, right? So yeah, I'm 100% with you on that. The storytelling things are an interesting one, because the scientists are telling a story which which is challenging in its own right, because they're scientists, not storytellers, right? Some of them, some of them, are better than others, but there are a million stories being told, and they're being told beautifully that people don't want to listen to them.

Unknown: 1:22:35

Well, that's the assumption. No,

Andrea Edwards: 1:22:37

no, they don't. There's a denial like, I mean, Tim knows cruising is bad, but he's going to go on a cruise, right? But he knows it's bad, and I'm not attacking

Unknown: 1:22:47

you, huh? That's my chicken in front of the vegan. Yeah, right,

Andrea Edwards: 1:22:51

okay, but I'm not attacking you for it. You know it's bad, yeah? But, but you're going to do it. We're not ready to give up the things that we need to give up to give ourselves a chance at a future. And that's really what it comes down to, because we're not ready to accept that. That is the future. That's where we're rapidly heading into now. Like, you know, when people talk about three degrees global warming, that's, that's, that's all over, that's, that's the end of civilization as we know it, because all of the barrier, all of the reefs, were gone. You know, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago. It's all over. So the idea that we can keep going, as we're going moving towards that even 2.1 degrees, which is the next one that should be maybe popping up in the next decade, like it's catastrophic. So we're just going to keep going there it. That's where we are, like, and I, I'm, I'm like, Whatever, whatever the decision is. So I have really accepted it. I really have, even if I don't like it, I've accepted it, because otherwise I'd just be doing I'd be going crazy right now. But, yeah, we don't want to head towards two. We certainly don't want to head towards three. People are like, oh, you know, what's it going to be like? I'm like, it's all over by three, you know? So

Unknown: 1:24:11

I was, I was reading about the Trump biopic movie, the one that they made. Yeah, I

Andrea Edwards: 1:24:17

can't watch it, yeah. Well, I

Unknown: 1:24:19

mean, you know, it sort of paints him as a sort of a tragic figure of the of the sort of late 70s, early 80s, optimism and flamboyancy. And it's that think about it, though, in a sense, as I was reading the the piece about it, it was the person that's been elected as the president is the product of that 80s mindset. So the 80s might, and we see this a lot in leadership training, where, you know, somebody writes a book about something, and it slowly trickles down to the corporate and then corporates like evangelizing to its people the the merits of this book, which may be, you know. Decade old, and then that lasts in corporate for the next five years, as everyone's talking that lingo. And then the next book comes out about some other spin on the same thing, you know, and then that's the vernacular for the next five years. So there is these sort of generational shifts within cultures, corporate cultures, or whatever, but it the leader, the leader that is in in charge of the free world, the leader in charge of us is a product of the excesses of the 80s, the mindset of the excesses of the 80s and and so in a sense, we're talking about a cultural shift. A significant cultural shift needs to happen from a mindset perspective, from a consumeristic perspective, from a conditioning perspective. But the thing is, the machine that's conditioning people has elected its super conditioned person, and that conditioning is just going to continue. So the only, the only thing I can see that can actually shift these, this mindset in a significant way is environmental or pandemic level calamity, although the pandemic did it for a moment, but didn't, didn't last, right? I've got people like sneezing on busses and not wearing masks. I mean, I'm just like, Where were you for those three, four years, whatever it was, you know, and and so put your mask on, and I'm there with my mask on because I want to catch their thing. And I'm still, like, freaking. I was conditioned by it, so, but it or a war. And so it's, it's dramatic loss war, or the other one is significant life change, which is I alluded to earlier, with regards to, you know, I mean, everybody's a rebel in their teens, in every single generation, until they get a mortgage. I mentioned this once before, and then all of a sudden they, they toe the line a little bit, because I got to pay the thing off. And, I mean, they get, they get stuck in the system, and they get conditioned to, you know, get better and do whatever. But the fella that's running the place is, is a product of 1980s excesses and that sort of thinking. And so I think I want to add something there. Tim, so really, interestingly enough, last week, I was moderating a panel, and the the topic was actually, how do you engage the youth through culture and education, on on inclusivity and sort of the issues that the world is facing at the moment. And it was a really interesting panel, because the long and short of it was actually the youth are not the problem. Like, you know, the next generation is Gen Alpha. Maybe not so much Gen Z, but definitely Gen alpha are really, really aware of the state of the world that they are in and the state of the world that they're inheriting. And actually the problem is us, right? We're the problem, the ones who've been raised in the 80s, who've who've got that 80s mindset, and we're so conditioned to treat the world and treat consumerism in a specific way, and really the best thing we can do to engage and to guide this next generation who are going to inherit this world is actually step out of the way a little bit and create spaces for them to do what needs to be done. So guide them along the way, show them all the ways in which we've screwed up right and then try to help them see things differently and not raise them the same way that we were raised, and not raise them the same way, with the same mentality and the same consumerism that we were raised with. And maybe that's where the hope is, and maybe that's where the change will come if we just try to do things a little bit better with the future, if we can't fix it today.

Andrea Edwards: 1:29:03

Yeah, but

Unknown: 1:29:06

she's laughing because she's like, she's so optimistic.

Andrea Edwards: 1:29:10

We haven't got time for the kids to grow up that we haven't got time for them to grow up, right? We've we've got to do this for them. So I've raised my boys who are Gen Z fully aware of what's going on in the world, while not writing frightening the crap out of them, so that they can actually enjoy their life. Because I've told them, I'm going to I'm going to get it done. I'm going to get this job done, right? So they they believe in their future, right? I talk to kids, they are so terrified. I like it. I I can't believe any parent would willingly allow their child to live in that terror for their future and not change something about the way they're living their life. It really shocks me, and like all my friends so my friends in Australia, 80s generation, right? Most of the people I know have tried to live. A good, clean life, and they're not taken too much from the earth. I've lived an extravagant life from an emissions perspective, and I know it so I feel like I owe a lot. So here's the thing that's the real the big thing that changed. At the beginning of this century, we had 500 million middle class people. Now we have 3.8 billion, and it's expected to reach 4.8 billion by 2030 I don't think we've got any chance of that ever happening, because by 2030 we're going to be in a whole new world. We've got 3.8 billion middle class people, the vast 32% of them are in Asia. So there's this huge amount of people that, for the first time in their life, have the same opportunities we got in the 80s. So the only difference between them and us is we were born in a different place at a different time when those sort of doors opened up. But as we know, those of us from Australia, it's got a population of 23 million. India and China got 1.4 billion each, right? So it's the scale of the problem. So if everyone wants to get a new fridge, or have more than one fridge, like most Australians I know, got five fridges, we can't have 1.4 billion people in China having five fridges each. That would be a catastrophe, right? And nobody's paid attention to that. This growth, growth, growth, growth. And it's been, you know, mobile phones, computers, iPads in any sort of tablet, right? Clothes, shoes, accessories, handbags like Louis Vuitton, they're suffering whatever the group that owns the whole group, they're suffering because China's not buying it from it anymore. That's the massive market in the world, right? We're not paying attention to the numbers of people who are consuming and we're just going to in you look at, you know, every quarter is your company growing? Is your company growing? And if they're not, the boss loses their job and a new boss gets put in, because you've got to keep growing, growing, growing. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the problem. That's what we need to fix, that's what we need to change. But nobody wants to talk about that.