Climate Courage: resilience and humour in the age of the polycrisis

As the world starts to comprehend the impacts of the polycrisis – which is the simultaneous occurrence of several catastrophic events all happening at the same time – we must get focused on building our resilience “muscles,” while also understanding we need to be there for each other, because it is our local communities who will step up when the going gets tough. 

As the floods, fires, droughts, famine, storms, sea level rise, and other disasters keep showing us, none of us are safe in the challenging years ahead, no matter where we live. This means refugees are on the move in greater numbers than ever before, not just from climate hotspots, but also from war-torn countries, or those fleeing political repression. 

If you are in this situation and have no wealth, what is this journey like? How do you stay positive and hopeful of a future for yourself and your family? And is joy possible? Because if we forget to smile and laugh, what’s the point? 

That’s why we thought it was time to hear the story of a very special man, who has been through hell and back, and today he’s a working comedian, brightening people’s lives around the world. We are delighted to have the opportunity to introduce you to Nico Ndlovu.

Nico is originally from Zimbabwe, after which he struggled as a refugee and asylum seeker, and now he’s lived in Scotland for the best part of two decades. Today he is a podcast producer for Siyakhuluma We Talk Podcast, which focuses on the experiences of asylum seekers in the UK, and he also hosts various events, including his own comedy open mic night: That Guy Comedy Show. 

Nico’s volunteers with various projects and charities in Glasgow, with his focus always on the movement of people such as asylum seekers and refugees. He presently volunteers with NACCOM Network (The No Accommodation Network), he is a member of One Strong Voice, the UK’s first coalition of campaigners with lived experience of the immigration and asylum system, he volunteers with Castlemilk Community Church Furniture Project, and he is a board member of the Southeast Integration Network.

That is what the show is about, from refugee to comedian and all the lessons learned, it’s happening on Friday, 27th September – 3pm SG time, 8am UK time. Come and join us. 

Climate Courage is a livestream, held every two weeks and is co-hosted by Andrea T Edwards, Dr. David Ko and Richard Busellato. On the show, we cover critical topics across the full spectrum of the polycrisis, in everyday language, and we go big picture on the climate crisis, while also drilling down and focusing on the actions we can all take to be part of the solution. Whether individual action, community action, or national/global action - every single one of us can be part of ensuring a live-able future for our children and grandchildren. We owe them that!

#ClimateCourage #RethinkingChoices #UncommonCourage 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to Climate Courage. My name is Andrew a Edwards. And here today, you only have me, Richard Baselato, because David is strangely unavailable. Not strangely, but he actually has COVID, which is quite nasty even in 2024. Yeah. Yeah. I've been reading some recent research on, COVID. It's not looking good. No. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. Here we are. Anyway, so, David, we hope you feel better, and it's not too brutal. But I think, actually, more brutal is a better sign than the less brutal from what I'm reading. Yep. There's a lot to be said to that. Alright. So today's theme is resilience and humor in the age of the poly crisis. And I think anyone who's paying attention would understand that building our resilience muscles is gonna be something that's incredibly important to do. And those of us who are strong will be able to help those who are not able to be strong. But the other side of things is if we don't laugh, what's the point? Right? Absolutely. So, I what do you reckon, Richard? Are people starting to get the message? Do you think about what's going on? Very much getting the message. You know, in in the UK this week, obviously, we've had, tremendous rains. I mean, it it's it actually is almost biblical rainfall. Yeah. We've had lots of rivers bursting this morning. The news is probably 30, 40% full of various reporters out in all parts of UK showing water everywhere. We opened up a sinkhole at the local football club. Wow. In Have you lost your roof? Yeah. My my roof is not so happy. We had torrential rains on Monday night, and, some little part of it has actually caved in because of the pressure of the water. So we had water coming into the bedroom. Not how you wanna get woken up, but, it's getting, tended to at least. But throw the nasty, actually. And if you live sort of West Coast in Florida today, I don't think you're in a very happy place. Yeah. No. I'm seeing some crazy stuff. Alright. So, we've got a very special guest today because the lived experience is always worth learning from. So, Richard, would you like to introduce the wonderful Nico? I will, and I already now apologize for the pronunciation of his surname. After all this time, I'm still struggling. But with us today, we have Nico Luvo. Was that about roughly correct, Nico? Yes. Yes. Yes. You are, very close. I know. Thank you for having me here because, lots of people have been struggling my second now. Alright. Good. I'm not alone. It actually means the elephant in in in in the valley and Zulu. Yeah. But you can find locals in in around in Africa. So that girl yeah. But you did well. It's it's not it's not an individual name. There is extended family with sort of the same surname. Yes. They are. We're we're delighted to have you here today, Nico. Yeah. Nico is a is a tremendous character who I'm known for some time, couple of years now, I think. Yes. You will not believe it, but the man actually lives in Scotland. But he has no Scottish accent. Yeah. He must be the only Glaswegian without a Scottish accent I know. Well, also, the only Glaswegian we'll be able to understand. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. We're delighted to have you here today. And, you have a phenomenal life story on how you ended up in the UK, which we will obviously touch upon. But, your main profession is actually comedian, and, that's something that we all think as we progress through this phase, it's gonna be incredibly important because we cannot lose our sense of humor. If we can, you know, not have fun and we stop laughing, then really what is the point? So that will be a central part of today. And, we thought that you as professional comedian would be a great guest to have with us for that part. So thank you for coming. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for promoting me, professional comedian. That's it. Alright. So Nick Yeah. So, Nicko, before we get into your amazing story, we we start Climate Courage off with some of the big recent news, especially from a climate perspective. So I'm gonna rip through 5 new stories that came out this week. And obviously, you've already mentioned it, but we're seeing hurricane Helene absolutely ravage, the US this morning, and this evening. We won't really see the scale of damage for a few more hours until the sun comes up in in America, but, it's not looking good. I I read that it went from a category 1 to a category 4 within 12 hours. So it's pretty scary and also how far inland it's gonna go. So the Appalachian mountains are looking at record landfall. So I think we're gonna have more biblical flooding. On the other side of the world, in Australia, they've approved, the government has approved 3 coal mine expansions. So these 3 coal mines will release 1,300,000,000 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions in their lifetime. Going across to Nigeria, and, I know that the rest of the world doesn't get as much coverage as what's going on in the northern hemisphere, but, the floods, the recent floods have destroyed food that could feed 8,500,000 people for 6 months. So they're already in a terrible situation, and it's a terrible situation that's gotten a lot worse. Going to Southeast Asia, and this is just Southeast Asia, so this doesn't include China. Right? Boeing forecasts that passenger air traffic will triple over the next 20 years, and that will require 4,720 new airplanes. This is just Southeast Asia. But, of course, the really big news this week was the planetary health check, which was released by the Potsdam Institute. And they have suggested that Earth may have, and it's very close to, breaching the 7 of 9 planetary boundaries, which is ocean acidification. So that that would that was a big one. But when you look at the Boeing and the coal mine story in Australia, I would suggest that we're not getting the message. What do you guys think? Well, I think there is a very, strong part of I'm I'm I'm not 100% sure getting the message is the the right expression, but we'll go with that because I can't come to think of a better one at the moment. There is an understanding that's getting much more widespread. People are owing up to the fact that, you know, even a small child can do the math, so what this means in terms of carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere. But there is still a big hurdle thinking it's not yet hurting me enough, and someone else should do something about it, preferably politicians. And as we've touched upon before, for politicians, it's extremely hard to, push through policies, which in the short run makes people feel poorer. That's that that really is a very tough sell politically. So I cannot see that politicians would be the ones reaching out and actually solving this for for for for those reasons. But I think that hurdle and the disconnect between, yeah, I see what's happening, but it's not yet hurting me enough that I need a wake up call. That gap is rapidly closing because people everywhere will very, very soon start getting hurt on a personal level. Yeah. I thought the idea that the idea that you've gotta be hurt first before you do anything, it's just that's what makes me go, oh god. Don't you guys understand? The worse this gets, the worse this gets. But anyway, Nico. Yeah. For me, I think I will serve this because I've got a part where I'm gonna be talking about my involvement on the climate change, as we talk today. So, yeah, the message is is not getting through. I agree totally. I think there's many people like myself, for example, from Zimbabwe and, the villages. Climate change is still new to me, like, when we talk about disasters. But no. Sorry. Disasters are there since a long, long, long, long time ago, but no one ever pay attention why. So maybe I'll leave a bit now, and then when we got, to my time, when I have to speak properly about climate change, my involvement there. Yep. Alright. So, Richard, do you wanna do you wanna kick it off? We're gonna do a bit more of an interview today. We will. So Nico, and I managed to pronounce his names pretty well, Louisville. As he told you, grew up in Zimbabwe, and he came to the UK and more specifically Scotland and Glasgow about 20 years ago. And the story of how you ended up here and the travois and the enormous, you know, bureaucratic hurdles for you to actually come to live in in in Scotland is something you will tell us about because I couldn't possibly do it justice. But you're also involved in a great many initiatives, and you are the comedy show That Guy, where you, are a professional comedian and a very funny one as well. So that's also a very strong reason for having you here today. But you're involved in a multitude of other projects, and I know you're heading to London later today. So, please tell us, first of all, Zimbabwe to Glasgow. For most people, that's not a straightforward transfer. Okay? I've never been to Scotland, but I cannot imagine it has anything culturally or climatologically to do with how it is to live in Zimbabwe. Thank you, for having me, David. Sorry. I reached out and and Andre. Yes. I just wanna get something. I kept I I left Zimbabwe, went through South Africa, and then London, and then Glasgow. Yes. It's a long journey, actually. I think if I remember, I left my village home 1994, and moved to South Africa, stayed there for 6, 7 years. Then I came to the UK in 2000 as a refugee, and then I left London for 6, 7 years as well. Then London become too complicated, and then I moved to Scotland. Scotland was this is the best place for me because I remember people always say these things, like, when you move somewhere, you you feel like you're there's something remove your mask. You know? You, yeah, start a new life. I was like, I feel like someone just opened my eyes so that this is it. This is beauty. You know? So, yeah, I don't know where to start. I'll grab in the village in Zimbabwe, Mateo land. I mean, Debele. Debele is similar like Zulu's. We share 80% of how we speak. And, we are very small minority in Zimbabwe, maybe 11%. The the majority are actually people. Okay. So I live with my grandmother in the village. To see one car was a dream come true. So we didn't have much, much, things that contain the big cities. So I went to a school where we sit under the tree, then we we share the the the classes with other older, children. So my education is very was very less. So most of the stuff I educated myself, when I came to Europe or when I was, yeah, in Europe and stuff like that. Yeah. I like my village. I like to stay there a bit because it's really this is where I'm from. You know? I mean, like, even if I have to leave this world, I love maybe to have a a big wood statue of myself standing there. Like, this is where I'm from. You know? Yeah. I remember in your one of your questions, someone said I should maybe touch. How was the politics in Zimbabwe at that time and stuff? I was very young, to be honest with you, but, there's one there's one particular, I won't say, exodus. Something happened in 1983 when God opened the soldiers to kill 20,000 of my people. I was at school when the soldiers came. That's another traumatic I've got in my head. So since 1983, people started to move around, like, move to South Africa, different neighbor countries. And since then, we never had actually enjoyed the country. So we are not the people, like, really who can hold that government as a good government. And I'm not gonna go too much in Zimbabwean politics, for my family relative's safety, you know, because they're they're still ruling since 1980. So there was so much, very bad things happened. I I used to be very active about what happened. And then because nowadays, when you're trying to talk about this issue, I'll be called tribalism. I was like, no, it's not. This is a serious thing happened. You know what I mean? It's got nothing to do. It's because we're living the world like now. We've got some words can be blocked, not to tell the truth. So as I speak right now, someone might think, oh, this guy is bringing a tribalism issue here. No. That's not. It's about 20,000 people died. You know what I mean? And the BBC called the mini genocide. I'm still angry about that. And Umkayve call it as a mistake. You know, it goes on and on and on. So I lived in a young age very angry. And then when I came to this, where I am now, like, I can express myself. You know what I mean? I'm gonna talk about my podcast as well later on and stuff. So there is a love I've got for my village, a love of my family, but there's no love for the government of Zimbabwe. You know? And I don't wanna talk politically, but it's just embarrassing for me if I say I'm from that country while I've never actually enjoy it. So yeah. So can I just ask a sec? What what what what was the population of of your people before Mugabe carried out that genocide? Which sounds like it is a genocide by all the definitions. What was the population? I won't tell you the numbers because I was young to to to well, to do that. But I think we are covering up 20% in the of the country that time. And and today, are there are there still do you still have your people in the country, or or they just spread out now across Africa? They're there. They're there. They're people. They have might be 11% now from 20%. Wow. Okay. Yeah. There's some people like my mom. She can't go anywhere. She's 70 something. You know what I mean? Which I mean, there's, there's a lot of people as well who let's let's look at 198 when we took off until today. There's some people end up what's called joining them and end up to be part of that because the only way to get a job that time is to join the the Mungawi side or something that but some of the stuff that I don't have a 100% evidence who's joined Mugabe and why and what they do, but people still there. And so are are are your people able to live in peace today or is it still, is it still challenging like it was when you when you left when you were young? For me, I think I'll call Zimbabwe as a fell state. So whoever's living there is not living in peace. Doesn't matter if Okay. If you are a Shwanna person or a developed person, whatever you are, Zimbabwe's cast. Of course, the government people, the members of Mkhabe, they are living large, airport houses in Namsaba. I'm talking about people like, like my family, my friends, and stuff. Yeah. And Zimbabwe is obviously going through extreme drought and famine at the moment, so I could imagine that's also impacting the community today. Yeah. It's been like that for years. I remember, like, I was not a joke. Like, people always ask me, Nick, how old are you? And I was, like, I was born in the kitchen between my mother and my grandmother. Right? Not even one doctor. After, like, maybe 8 years, the government came to the village and asking people, how old this boy? You know, my grandma said, ah, do you remember that drought? It's like, oh, 1975. Yes. Hold on. Do you think I'm 50 something? No. So I think the point is there's attended crisis in the villages. Yeah. Yeah. If you are born, I was not born you know, like, this is this is always trying to talk to people. Like, I think we need to revisit that kind of life where when you're born in a village without doctors, and then they come after 8 years, 10 years. How do they really know how old are you? Because my grandmother didn't know my numbers. She had never been in school. Only thing she remembers that the the drought. You know that. So that comes back. That didn't study it now. It's been there for a long time. And people are calling it. People are I don't know if you knew it. It's it's it's a reality of life. I got Vicky from the Philippines, like, her her birthday, you know. What what what is it, you know. So, yeah, it's always sort of tricky. Okay. So, how old were you when you left? Were you by yourself or you're with others? And, tell us about the journey and because because I could imagine it was incredibly difficult. I mean, we've seen some of the stories out of South Africa just in recent years. The building that was on fire that collapsed with a whole bunch of refugees in it that died, it was about 6 months ago. Everything's happening so fast. It's hard to keep track. But tell us tell us about the journey. Yeah. For me, I think, my journey was not that extreme like, other people. But when when the villages, we tried many attempts many times to cross the border to Botswana, get caught, you send back, try and cross in the other side of, sorry, South African one. Well, that's one is more dangerous because it's a river with crocodiles. So never done a 5, 6 attempts to get to South Africa. Then finally, they're there. Only get there who had some relatives already there, but they also, like, have poor jobs, like working as cardinals, maids. So they're not allowed to keep your relatives in the the boss house. So what you can do is just build a shelter, like, in these townships and stuff. It's just that, I was lucky for myself because I I was always meeting people who got very positive things to do. And, I didn't put myself in that group of, like, yeah, doing bad things. So yeah. Yeah. That's what I look at mine. I'm not gonna sit here and say, yeah. I I had, like, a a of course, it's still bad to be not in your own country, in your own house. Yeah. When it's not by choice, yes, then it's Yeah. It's devastating to have to give up what is effectively your home. It's different if you say I wanna experience something, but I can always come back and I enjoy coming back. Yeah. I think that's a that's that's a massive difference because all 3 of us have moved a fair bit in our time. You know? We're we're not native to where we're living at the moment. Yeah. But, you know, in my case, it was purely by choice, by by economic reasons. I was offered jobs in different places that I felt were more interesting and were paying more. Yeah. And I knew I could always come back. I can still go back if I want to. And, you know, that's a That's what it's worth. I was gonna add something, Doug. You see that fear of, of unwelcome? For me, it didn't started today in Europe. It started in Africa. Even if you're in South Africa, in Botswana, wherever you are, you know that they can tell you are not part of that society or circle. So and secondly, I was illegal. You never be you never be legal. You're always illegal. You always have more documents. You know, that fear is always there. You work in the shop. You look around. Maybe they're gonna ask me documents. Then as soon as we made it out, he said, yeah. So I live abroad like that. I've probably like looking behind my back most of the my life. You know, that is where it it make me strong, actually. People sometimes they think it's it become like a very best thing ever because you are late. You you are work every day. You you you watch what you are doing, what you're saying. We interrupt with. You become like an animal. You know? Animals, they're always checking around. If they if they lie on this around or not, they never settle down. So that's part of my life like that. I'm sure there's many people lived like that. Even till today in Scotland, I still like, when, of course, Scotland is peaceful. But let's be honest, there's other things we don't talk about much because people maybe they'll start looking at you negatively, but racism, for example. We need to also address that. Doesn't matter if the country serve for war, but doesn't that mean serve for kindness. You know? There's there's always gonna be some people who who cross you every day, but Glasgow is very friendly people, by the way. People are nice. But Yeah. Still some Old but nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But but can I but I just because I, I did some tours around the Burmese migrant camps in Phuket, after the pandemic? And, the sister who took me on the tours, she was showing me these camps and every single one of them was on a waterway. And the reason they were on a waterway is if the police came, they could run across and get away. That was basically why. So it's just what you're sort of sort of talking about, that constant sort of awareness. But the other thing is, of course, when the floods come, they're also the first to get wiped out. So they they have to be in these positions to keep to keep themselves from being arrested, but at the same time they're also putting themselves in danger. So, and and, you know, Richard, when we say we've moved, we have choices. Like, I I feel, you know, in my family, I can I can live in the UK, I can live in Singapore, I can live in Australia? And I believe as an Australian, I can also live in New Zealand. So that's 4 countries I have the right to go to without any I I would have to do a bit of paperwork for the UK because it's my husband's side. But, people with no choice, no rights, you know. And I think there's such a deep lack of compassion in our world for people with no choices. And, you know, the wealthiest people across the world, they can go they can pay. But for people without money, it's, it's a brutal existence and that uncertainty. So how long were you in a state of uncertainty? How many years? You go? You mean, in UK? Just until you got the paperwork that meant you could legally stay and be entitled to some more rights. Yeah. Yeah. I applied in 2010. The rest of the years I was underneath the table. And now I can speak about it because now I've got it right. Before I was I was not gonna tell you that story because they will lift him up. So I left in 2,000, then I didn't know how to go around about asking asylum and travel with different documents. So I was like and I was this is another thing I always wanna try to explain to people that it it's about who you network with. So I was living with, with Australians and New Zealand and South Africans. Those people, they don't get search for documents. They don't, you know, they don't even talk about, how how you how to go around to get your asylum second refugee status. So I thought everything was fine because no one is talking about anything. And then at last, mine is whatever account it was, expired. Then I start panicking a bit, and now I'm scared. Just so imagine if I if I stayed with, African, for example, and, with the community of refugees like now in Glasgow, I could have sorted myself long time ago or I I either way, I could maybe been deported or something. But now, that's why I look at lives. Like, sometimes, things happen for a reason. Maybe the reason I stayed there with these good friends of mine from New Zealand and Australia and South Africans, that was God buying time for me to be where I am now. Then if I went to my community that time, never could have been sent back. So which one is which I wanna, stand with. So what I'm trying to say to you is to keep yourself positive, is to whatever happens in life, man. For me, personal, I think there's a space for it. And was one of the most worst things because if you're not allowed to work, you're not allowed to travel. Even to introduce yourself to the people, it's just embarrassing. You know? I mean, like, you can't say you didn't I didn't know what how to introduce myself. Maybe that's why I've come up with so many things that I'm trying to fit in, to comedy and try to volunteer, trying to network as much as I can so I can find identity on these kind of things I'm doing. Interesting. Yeah. And it makes perfect sense, you know. It's Yeah. It's how you need to approach it when you are under that amount of pressure. It's Yeah. It's very rational. And you touched earlier, Andre, on this, lack of compassion people have. But I would go even further and say there is a tremendous lack of understanding because we live in a rich world. You know? Even the people that think they have a struggle and it's tough for them financially are significantly better off than the people who come on boats across the channel. You essentially leave your home when it's not by choice for economic reasons in the sense that you're going job hunting or you leave it because you actually cannot have a livelihood at home. And that is a purely economic rational argument. If I cannot survive at home, I have to go. You know? Yeah. You look at the what is it David's favorite, comparison is, you know, the season is over and the wild beast on the savanna of of Africa, they start to migrate because they know the season is changing, and they have to go, or you they will die. And and, fundamentally, we are not different. If I cannot survive where I'm living, I'm gonna go. And and and to build that into some kind of, why are you coming is completely irrational from political perspective because you have no option. So you need to actually understand the rationale behind that decision. People are not putting themselves at at harm's way because they think this might be a good thing to do. It's because you have to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna get some freebies from this foreign government. Yeah. Yeah. Who especially for women and children, you know. And the majority of refugees are women and children, you know. You look at the camps across Africa. You know, the the what's going on in Sudan at the moment? These people, you know. And this and the and the the the food agencies, like the World Food Programme, there's no way they can keep up with the demand that's happening right now. So it's it's very heartbreaking. Very Yes. And and and and politically, you know, if you if you are really, really brutal, this is essentially how you disintegrate the European Union. Yeah. Because the countries on the Mediterranean are the ones that gonna be the first port of call for the refugees coming across from Africa because that's how the map is laid out. And if you really crush food supply in Africa, and it's clearly going on in Sudan, and you spoke about Nigeria earlier, although Nigeria is economically a lot better off than Sudan. I mean, some people tend to think of Africa as one big place. It's actually not. You have enormous difference in in in economic standing between the African countries. And Sudan is probably at the very bottom. And if you crush food supplies there, there is no option but to move. And I am absolutely sure that Putin's war in Ukraine is to some extent driven by a desire to destabilize Europe because you know that Ukrainian food supplies are largely going to North Africa. Yep. And if you can hamper that, you're gonna create a crisis in Africa, and you destabilize Europe. Yep. So it all kind of fits together in this very complex web of political and rational economic decisions, because from whoever makes those decision, it makes perfect sense whether you're Putin or a Sudanese refugee. Yeah. I want to, I don't know. Go ahead, Andrew. No, no, no. I thought we could move on to the just, you know, when you look at the asylum process I mean, so I think I heard it was more than 10 years for you before you got your official paperwork where you could feel maybe just take a breath. Right? Just say, I'm alright now. Right? Was it 10 years? So I mean, how do you I'll I'll just give you an example. I've just moved from Thailand to Singapore as if our family's moved for lots of reasons. But, we've been unstable for a few months and it's just taken pieces out of us. Right? This is just a few months. You've been you went through you went through this for more than a decade. So and you you all this uncertainty, you didn't know I mean, you I'm sure when you left, you didn't know you were gonna end up in Glasgow. Right? So you think of all the steps that you took on the way, all the experiences that you felt. How did what did you learn about resilience? Like, when you when you look back and you sort of reflect on everything that you've been through. Yep. For me, 10 years including, like, refusal, I was at, appeals and stuff like that just to make sure that it's not like yeah. So there was lots of difference. Resilience for me, I think there was a moment where I give up. Like, I give up. Like, I didn't care what this government's gonna do with me. They can put money in desert. I just have that, you know, when you complete time, like, you don't care no more about life. But you're not in that what I mean don't care, I don't mean, like, actually give up, my soul. I'm talking about the system. I I didn't care what the system's gonna do with me. I didn't care if they put me somewhere for 50 years. I just said that. Then I had this very stupid mentality. I said, if Mandela done 27 years in prison, I'm still young. My my I can I can wear it? You know, it sounds stupid, but I was trying to to create my mind not to worry too much. I had so many different thoughts. How can I survive this? Every book every case is different. I always tell people that my case is completely different than maybe someone is next door to me or someone is survived, but the system is the same. You know? I remember my first interview, it take 4 hours interview. Imagine that how scared is that? 4 hours repeating some questions. The the other stupid question you're asking about the newspapers. I'm from the village. You know? I never see a newspaper. Ask him about the radio stations. I don't have a radio. He asked me about so many so many questions that I have not they're not been in my village. And when he failed to answer that those questions, that's why they call me a liar. We can't believe this story. And, so they see out so many things. I think I become actually inside an activist without knowing that I I started to let, yeah, to to gang up inside myself like this. I can I want I don't know how to put it in words? It's like, not very angry with how I get triggered and other people treated, but without knowing how to fight it. You know? So I will attend some groups like, meetings, activities in Glasgow, for example. I understand volunteering as well in some different sectors, like refugee communities. Like now, I'm still with NACOM. NACOM is a is in England. It's a project. One strong voice. So my voice become like non. So I get invited to this kind of places to speak and share my stories as well for raising awareness and stuff like that. And when the more you share your story and encourage other people as well to feel to share that story, even not to share, to give them that, what's called hope that if Nico's been there for 10 years and it's me, I'm just been there 3 months. I think there's hope. You know what I mean? You know? There's something that so you need so I was not only doing for me anymore. I was trying trying to actually give other people hopes. Even some people, they get their papers in 3 months. Imagine. Some people in 1 week. Some people in 3 years. Some people in 5 years. Unlike some people tend like me. I know a few people will be near 20 years and still on and off. So that my resilience came, like, not only for me, for other people to raise awareness and stuff like that. And I'm still doing it because I think there's more to to be there. I become like a family of it, so I can't even if I got my papers, I still don't see myself out of it. I'm still part of that, struggle. So it's like a trauma response. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Sorry. There's one time here in Casco. I don't know. It's it's a quick one. Like, there was this system of the what's called the house provider for asylum seekers. They have this system that if your case is about might be refused. They'll change the locks when you're when you're out. They do this on a Friday. They know there's no solicitors, and there's no one who can help you. So you come wherever you come from, you put the key, it's changed. Now homeless begins. And we have no clothes, and then walk around the street. At the 2013, I was homeless to to 15. 2 years straight. And I asked them to friends, and this that during that process, that's where lots of negative things happens. Like, you become alcoholic, drugs maybe. And you just you're just in the wrong state, man. Just like yeah. I'm lucky because I managed to pick myself up there. You know? I mean, otherwise, some people didn't. It become because the u the UK government use psychology torture. A college torture means, like, you become useless to yourself. So even they give you a paper, you have no you have no, what's called, no hope yourself. You you are useless. You know, you can't look You can't look for a job, so that's why they give you benefits. You stay there. They know that within that 10 years, you'd be dead or something like that. Like, no. It's not funny, but that's what I noticed that they use psychology torture. They're not physical killing you, but they'll put on that system where your head will be destroyed. Yeah. So you you gotta you gotta have the strongest mind. Right? So the Mandela example I thought was good. So before we move on to the the volunteer work that you're doing with the asylum seekers today, I want I I looked at the numbers of refugees and, what's his name? Hans Rosling did some, presentations, about a decade ago before he died. Do you know Hans Rosling, the Swedish sort of data guy? Yeah. And he said everything's better than what you think it is. Right? So, and a lot of people still think that's the case, but actually it's not. So, there are, at the moment, a 120,000,000 people who have been forcibly displaced worldwide, and this is as a result of persecution, conflict, violence, or humans right human right violations. So there's 43,400,000 refugees and 63,000,000 internally displaced people. And when we're talking about the places in the world that actually host the most refugees, it's not the western world. It's not Europe. It's actually places like, so our number one is Iran, which actually surprised me. Turkey, obviously, they do a lot for the European Union. Pakistan has an enormous amount. And Uganda. And I've I've I've spoken to a few of the guys from Uganda. So in 2010, there were less than 40,000,000 refugees in the world. So we're at a 120,000,000 as of May this year. So it's probably going up again since then. It's expected to double again in the next 10 years. So we're we're at a 120,000,000 now, so that's going to be 240,000,000. But, when you look at climate refugee numbers, the estimates are anywhere between 25,000,000 and 1,200,000,000. Right? So, I mean, massive number. We can see what's going on all over the world from the impact of the refugees. We're not doing anything to get prepared for it. Everything's temporary. It's always last minute. It's always a scramble. And so, but we're gonna have this enormous movement of people because of what's happening predominantly in the global north is impacting people in the global south, and they're gonna be forced to be on the move. And the other thing that most people probably aren't aware of is, a refugee has rights. A climate refugee has no rights. That that's a really important distinction. So there is actually no global agreement on what to do with climate refugees. So I I I don't know if you guys know this story. So you remember Ethiopia and Live Aid? Yeah. So it was about 20 years after that event, after that drought and that horrible famine. They worked out that it was because the Europeans cleaned up their atmosphere that that caused the drought in Ethiopia. That, like, it was a direct link and it took 20 years for them to prove it. Right? So, the people who are suffering the most, who don't want to leave their homes, are growing in number, they're gonna be forced to leave. What are we gonna do about it? When are we gonna take responsibility for it? And when are we gonna get prepared for it? So, let's move on to the work that you're doing with the asylum seekers a day because I know you're doing a lot. You're doing so much. It's amazing. If you compare to your experience to what you're seeing today, and to the and to the mental health aspects that you're seeing as well, like how people are, the numbers, how they're being treated, the lack of dignity. Can you sort of really talk about what you're seeing and how much harder it's getting for these people? I think it's gonna get worse as you said. And secondly yeah. Very, very worse. Personally, I think I'll start by actually looking the the the African leaders as well and all the leaders around the world. We don't have leaders anymore because celebrities. You see, when a politician become a celebrity, he doesn't care about climate change. He doesn't care about lots of things. On the ref in my own opinion, the refugees, especially, let's talk about where I am now in in in UK and stuff. We're always discussing about the safe routes. I'm I'm sure you heard about the Rwanda scheme. It's it didn't work out to me. So that was horrible thing. And and until we have a safe place is where people can come without getting harassed, without dying. You see, like, the most painful thing for me is the people every year in this in the sea. Like, every year, there's a numb, lots of people die. You see, there's there's a document that I watched. The the yeah. When the Greek, they just watch people die. They they they just stand there, do nothing, and people just drawn and stuff like that. Yeah. For me, that is I think that's the things we need to start working on those safe routes. Like, what what can be done to do that? I hope the new government in UK will will start maybe planning to to arrest those gangs and stuff like that. And, yeah, in the moment, we're trying, like, where I'm going now today in London. We're going to try to to to create new messaging. You know what I mean messaging? I'm talking about the the language to campaign, about making safe routes and as well make the government to listen. Because the message from last year was very aggressive for us because the government was also aggressive to us. But this new government is standard. They're all the same, but a bit a bit might be less. So we need to change the language first. We need to change the our tools, how to campaign, how to actualize awareness as well. For for the climate change refugees for me, even me, I'm still learning, to be honest with you, because, if I if I came asylum, I came from Zimbabwe because there was no food, they'll refuse me, of course. They're, like, or by your country itself. Right? But even if I said the rain destroyed my village, I was lucky. I'm escaped. No. You can go back now. There's no rain. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that that is the most difficult one for me to actually go around it. But I think once you are here, I think we should be actually taken seriously, and look after and stop that. Yeah. I I was thinking about this this morning about what's happened now in Israel. Lebanon, was good. Yeah. It's like Lebanon where they they started fight. But I know we all talk about this was in east, Middle East, but no one ever touched Africa much. Like, there's still very civil wars that no one's talking about it. You know? Yeah. And they go on they're going for some time, but people I think the media is focusing on the way they they they get money because, when you're not yeah. If there's no benefits, they are not gonna go there and spend time talking about you. So I think there's a lot to work on. When it comes to refugees, for example, I've seen we're gonna talk about right wing as well because there was there's lots of accident happening in UK this year about young people starting to be tending to be evil. You know what I mean? Because the the right wing government, they gave false information, all that stuff. Most of the stuff, the difficulties come from social media, the Internet. There's so much it's it's chaotic, honestly. I can't give you the the point we are we are looking for. Like, how can we do this? Because it's quite difficult, to get through everything when when there's no control who's speaking on social media. Who's telling me? Who's who's calling me names? Who's calling me good names? So you know what I mean? Who who's gonna keep me tonight? All that stuff. There's, it's it's quite but some good people are there are, like, the project. I'm I'm involved with there's some maybe maybe, like, 100 of members. They also volunteer to take a refugee. You know what I mean? That says, okay. He or she can stay in my house for this week or so there's some good people out there who are really wanting to do good things. Then there's some difficult people who are also, worried about people come this kind of a, they they they don't have much to do for their lives. You know what I mean? That you guys I like when you said you moved around. But you had a good, you you moved because you wanted to move around. But someone who who who also have a right to move around, but he also he can't have be bothered to move around. But he just wanna sit there and he never travel, never see how the world suffers, and then he tells you, go back to your country. But how does he know he sees country where he is if you never see other countries? So Yeah. For me, if I have to say something around the world about this issue, it's simple. It's like, we need to stop electing these jokers. You know what I mean? Like, they become comedians. You know what I mean? They become celebrities. They become like, whatever it is. Yet, I don't know. I was not born here in 1901, whatever it is. I and I I can imagine. I never see any book says the prime minister was on Jersey's, concert, or the president was watching football. You know, their jobs those days, if you are a leader, you are a leader. Nowadays, we're talking about celebrities. It's in government, in government government dancing on a young kids concert. I'm like, man, we've we've got a job to do. You know? So I think even in United States, these elections come. I think they need to start thinking very, very, very, very difficult. Do you wanna vote for a puppet? Do you wanna vote for a comedian, or you wanna vote for a politician? It's one of bad comedian. It's a very bad comedian. Bad one. But if if if if there was another planet over there looking at us, they'd be laughing. Oh, no. You know what I mean? So I think Oh, are they? I think the Russians are laughing. They don't need to be serious about yeah. It it raises some very, you know, profound questions and issues about the current state of politics, which is probably worthy of at least an an own whole episode on its own. Yeah. But there are there are a couple of facts you cannot get away from. It's like if you believe in democracy, most people do, you are gonna get the kind of leaders you elect. And if you accept that, then you need to dig deeper and say, in my humble opinion, a politician is about politics is about serving the country. I cannot remember many politicians in in in the western world where I look at them and I think they're only in it for themselves. And that's a very different aspect to how politics set out once upon a time. You know, you look at the founding fathers in the US. They fought a civil war or war against the British to be free, and it's still one of the most amazing documents is the American Constitution. Yes. Women weren't allowed to to vote, but these guys had basically fought and they had their independence and they sat down and they thought out what is it that we want in terms of publicly elected officials. And the common streak is all about serving. Now it's all about serving myself and how if I do 5 years in politics in a really senior position, how much am I gonna be able to rake in as a consultant once I leave? That's basically the calculus. And it's it's crazy notion for and and then we shouldn't be surprised about the kind of people that that we see in politics. And and, ultimately, it does raise the question about democracy at large and if this is truly a democracy that we're seeing because, you know, do we wanna elect celebrities? And is politics a reality show, or is it a serious business? Yeah. But then but then on the other side, the serious leaders and the, the people that should be in politics don't wanna go into politics because No. It's become so ugly. We've seen some amazing female politicians have to step out because the the personal attacks are so bad. They they can't stay in, you know. So, we need equality in the world. We need diversity. We all of those things are positive for all of us. You know, this Elon Musk pushing this. We need the alpha males running the world. You know, well, the the problem that we've got in the world right now is because of the alpha males running the world. So we'd actually don't need more of that, we need a lot less of that and we need, a lot more, sort of, diversity and equality if we wanna overcome the challenges we face. But, yeah, to me it's just I remember doing, a test at one of the businesses that I worked at. And 4 out of 200 people, I was one of them, came back categorized as adults. 90% of the people surveyed came back classified as children. And it's like we've got the 90% 90% running the world at the moment. A whole bunch of children who who are in it for themselves. They're in they're there for their ego. Yeah. And yeah. And it's You're right. It's what it is. And diversity, you know, is is thrown around as a very nice word to say we need diversity and we need that. And, you know, in in a biological sense, it's super important. You know? If we speak to the scientist, biodiversity is crisis. But if you look at human diversity, for me, it's pretty obvious. If I'm building an organization, I'll be lucky enough to, you know, be part of building a few. I want people who have experience and integrity, and they need to be hardworking. Everything else doesn't really matter. You know? Old, young. Although, you know, if you're too young, you're gonna get disqualified by the experience part. But when I see how most organizations recruit, particularly publicly organizations, it's essentially you want to recruit people who are like me, which is, for me, the ultimate fallacy in how you build a really successful team in a business is you want as many people who are not like me as possible. Because hiring a replica of me, you know, a mini Richard sitting next to me is not gonna actually test my my daily hypothesis of how things work, and is this a good thing to do? Because you're gonna be thinking exactly like me, and you're gonna come to exactly the same conclusion. So you actually need yourself. And when you speak to to the people who, you know, make a living out of coaching senior executives, it's like, you want to have people who are able to say no. No. Actually, it's not about saying no. You just want people coming in with a different mindset and operating in a different framework who can see the world in a different perspective than you are seeing it. I think I'm pretty good at seeing the world from my perspective. What I need is someone looking at it from a different perspective. And that leads you automatically to what we commonly describe as diversity. Yeah. And most organizations do not have it because there is that, oh, this is a different kind of character, and I'm just embracing that. I love to socialize. I love to work with different kind of characters because it means I'm gonna get taught something I wouldn't have otherwise. And for me, life is a it's an eternal quest, essentially about learning and doing interesting things. So if you're if you're one of those people that's out there that's in joining the political fray against DEI as some sort of wokeism, what Richard said is really what it's all about. It's not about being woke, it's about, it's about making you better and being more successful because you're you're factoring all of the different points of view. So, Nico, going back to talking. So I've spoken to some older people in my community who, have bought into the political, speech around, you know, the refugees are overtaking the country, there's too many of them. They're kinda missing the whole, the government hasn't invested in it, it's it's delayed applications, it's made it harder, it's, you know, it's, you know and then the whole Rwanda thing, obviously, in the UK, which is just mind boggling to me. But I've spoken to people who have been bought into this and, I've tried really hard and really patiently to try and listen to why why they think they think what they think and try to get them to see it from another perspective. But I wanted to ask you, like, what's your advice to all of us who are open to helping and making sure the refugee movement around the world is successful? Because any one of us could become a refugee. Let's face it. So we should be a little bit more, compassionate just from that perspective. But in the meantime, how can we help people in the communities that are, you know, on the streets? And and I think, you know, those recent protests in the UK, I hope I hope you felt good seeing the the the love and the support that did come out in greater numbers than the people who came out with hatred. But how can we talk to the people in our families and our communities to get them to listen and to be more open and understanding and to stop buying into the political bullshit? Well, that's a very good question. For me, I think all people, they're not the problem. I think nowadays, the people need to watch is the 12 year olds to 2025. Those are people who spend time on the right wing Internet networks and stuff like that. For me, like, I'm gonna talk about my own experience, like, in UK, for example. I listen. Yeah. There's I don't know. There's, I found out, like, the as you said, the old group or people of group. They're they're very nice. They're they're welcoming, most most of people. Then you got another group that they're they're really not happy to see refugees at all because the government, the right wing stuff like that. It start with jobs, for example. There are some I've seen some lots of negative talks online. Like, someone said, oh, they come and take our jobs, our wives, or if it's such it become like a comedy as well. You know? How can you come to check someone's wife? You know? I mean, whatever stuff like that. And this person, he never worked in his life. He's about 40 something, 55 years. No. Nothing. Maybe the refugee from Syria is a doctor. You know what I mean? He's coming to contribute on this on this society, and you want him to go back. And you never done not even one job in your life. So Yeah. So I think the good government need to create, what's called a system that not educate people to be nice. I think to be nice, you don't need education. You know what I mean? I I always say people to tell the truth, you don't need to go into uni. You know what I mean? You know, you can see it as well. But I think people should continue to be nice, and for me, it works both ways as well. When people talk about integration, the reason why I always attend even the people that I'm scared of, I always go to their sometimes events. It's just to show my head and see what's gonna happen. You know what I mean? Because you don't if you don't get to them, they don't know. Sometimes these people, they they don't know that refugees are also human. They are also people that that like everyone else. So I think the more engaging together, working together as a community is, it might change people. Apart for me, the powerful key is the children. You know, children, those are most powerful change, young kids, like, from necessary to whatever you call it. Because, like, now I've got, like, families who are refugees here in my house next to me. They've got kids go to these necessary schools. They mingle with the Scottish kids. And the kids that don't know nothing about this hate, they have nothing to do with they don't even know they are refugees. You know? They're just poor souls that get blamed, get hated, without any knowledge who they are, what they why they are here. They're just kids. You know what I mean? Children. They have no clue. You know? And that makes me angry to see that that, someone as a old person can hate this young soul, small soul, who has nothing to do with this planet. We're just arriving. We're just happy to be that even Scottish kids and African, they don't even tell who they are. They're just kids. You know what I mean? They just love each other. You know? And that's what I want to see the world. But as we grow, we start telling the differences. And I want those mothers and fathers to actually look at their kids out there in school and come out there as well, do the same as as we live. You know what I mean? That's the that's the example I want to use when I talk to the conferences. Like, let's let's look at our children when they go to mingle each other in business or school. They are 0 year, 1 year, whatever. They have no idea that you hate me. They have no idea that I'm a refugee. They have no idea if I'm poor. They don't care because they don't know nothing. They're just nice, souls that's arrived in this horrible world. Until you can use that imagination, I don't see any changes very soon because, you know, the you cannot go to someone stubborn smoking weed the whole day, watching TV. And what is is that's what he believes. You know? I mean, does someone go to the pub every 11 o'clock every day just to watch the BBC and goes home and go to the Internet and bang on about negative stuff about refugees. So Yeah. You know, we need people who got future. The people go out like I know, like myself, everyone there to actually look for the positivity. And that you know what I mean? So, yeah, there's there's a lot to be done, but I'll go back in my last point. I think children, they are the the best, example of not knowing anything, and they get targeted by some old you know, I mean, evil. But how can you hate the child? You know? Because she's a refugee. It it it's crazy. I I love Yuri's comment by the way. It's it's absolutely bang on and But I was gonna ask him about this comment. Sadly, the woke anti western movement is making this whole conversation harder. I've gotta tell you, I really, really hate the word woke. And, I really hate it because, I because I it's it's it's a word that's been politicized, but the actual to me, the true meaning of being woke is being a decent human being that cares about other people. So using it in this way, I'm like, I I sorry. Sorry, Yari. But don't use it. It's a horrible word. More buying into the politicization. I mean, because that's what we're dealing with. You know? But it's politicization of people's lives and othering. If the person that is being othered by your politicians has no power, they're not your problem. They're a scapegoat. Right? And we see it all the time. We're seeing Trump doing it, you know, that the whole Haitian story, it's just appalling and the impact that that's having on the people. Right? The any politician that that is doing that sort of stuff that and this is this is the language of Hitler. This is the language of authoritarianism and fascism, and it goes back through all through history, it happened in Rwanda. It, it it's it happened in, Croatia, you know, where somebody is your enemy within the community. And then they're not they're they're not the people who created the problem, but the government's convincing you that they are the problem. And if we don't get a handle on that, we're in all sorts of trouble. Social cohesion is breaking down all over the world. And we break down with social cohesion, we lose it. We can't we can't we can't fight anything. That's that's that's one of the topics I've been thinking a lot more about lately is social cohesion. Because how sucked in people get to, those messages just like, the mob. We saw the mob on the street in the UK a few months ago. Right? How do we we have how can we have not learnt from history? Like, it really really concerns me. It it really is an educational issue in in in to a large extent and understanding actually how the economy works. And, you know Yep. I'm I'm always very happy to raise my hand, you know, and and hold it up and say, I am a 100% believer in capitalism. I would carry the cross for the sake of capitalism because I truly believe in it. Not only has it helped me greatly, I really really believe in capitalism and what it does. What we need to stop doing is corrupt capitalism and and and the mechanisms of capitalism. What the western world has increasingly done in the last 25 years is trying to intervene in capitalism because we don't necessarily always like the side effects. But capitalism will bring economic winners and economic losers. And the refugee situation is at the bottom of it. All conflicts that displace people is about economic reasons. And then like Andrea says, you need to find an internal enemy to explain to people why you're worse off. That's the educational element, actually, for different reasons. But if we do not tackle the climate crisis at the heart of it, The economic fallout will just keep increasing, and one of the symptoms will be absolute explosion in climate refugees. Yeah. To believe that you can tackle the issue of people coming on boats to the UK or coming on boats across the Mediterranean and stopping the boats, etcetera. You can deal with the people that are profiteering from it. And that's like any criminal prosecution. But the underlying symptom is not gonna stop Yeah. Yeah. Unless we actually tackle the root of the problem. It will just multiply. And then we need to figure, and here is where the capitalist hat comes in, and Niko certainly touched upon it earlier. People who come bring enormous economic value, really big economic value. You might have people with great education like the Syrian doctor. The NHS is crying out for people to come in with medical education. But even if you are not that educated, doesn't mean you have no economic value. It's like what you need to focus on politically is accepting that refugees will come and figure out how to benefit economically from them. It doesn't mean I'm gonna put people into slave contracts, but there is also an economic aspect saying that whatever you left from, you're still gonna be better off here. And most people actually want to work because that's how you integrate in a society. Yeah. And, you know, you don't need to earn top dollar. You need to earn something that brings you the sense of being worth something. And the Yeah. The the focus for me is, like, figure out how we're gonna economically benefit from these people. Gifted. And need. And need. You know, Europe is basically on a declining population. Countries like Italy and Germany are just not going to survive the current economic status quo unless they start embracing immigration coming in to actually prop up the population numbers. And it doesn't look all that much better elsewhere, possibly apart from France and the UK, where you have a little bit more underlying population growth. But the rest of Europe is very stagnant. Yeah. Focus on on on figuring out how we're gonna benefit from this. Yeah. Because they are a resource that's sitting there that you see as an economic burden, not as an economic resource. And for me, with the capitalist hat on, you know, it's like, this is a profit making opportunity, and I'm gonna seize it. And and building the infrastructure now. You know, we know this. It's like, you know, you look at, hospital beds in developing or in developed countries around the world. Shrinking. Why would they be shrinking when we've got a aging boomer population that we've always known we're gonna have that needs to be the the the medical care is gonna be greater. Right? So why why why why why aren't we planning ahead? None of our governments seem capable of it. Right? But, where is the land? You know, there's land at the moment that nobody's occupying because it was too far north and too cold. Well, you know, unless it's on permafrost, of course. There is space that is opening up around the world where humans can be migrating to. So why don't we get our refugee community who want to do it, go there and start building these new cities? But multinational cities, so not not not multinational multi multi nations, right? So it's not we don't we don't want, tribal sort of cities being built like, you know, like in Singapore when they built the housing development board sort of, towers. Everyone everyone who lives in there, there's a percentage of different races in there. And they've kept it balanced so that they didn't have that that the UK had with its, housing. And it's not public housing, it's private housing. So it's a really clever system. Right? It's something like the HDB system that's here. China's adopted it. Yep. Yeah. I mean, we Adopt it. You know? Around these things in a multitude of ways. But I I sense here we're stuck in a very, very, old thinking. Yeah. And we're looking at old solutions. The old solutions are not gonna work. This is a very dynamic, fast paced environment, and I'm 100% certain the climate situation will not get better. It will get worse. Yeah. So if you think it was x this year, it's gonna be 2 x next year and 5 x in 3 years' time or something like that because it's not gonna be a linear growth. It's gonna be exponential growth because that's how all these things work. Yeah. So we we need to start thinking a little bit dynamically about it. And if you wanna tackle it, you need to tackle it at the root of the problem. Everything else is just cosmetics, and it's not gonna work. Yeah. So So, Nico, we're Small rant. Get it over with. Like, now we can move on to happy things and fun things. And so yeah. What are the we'll finish up with, comedy. Somehow Yeah. You went from a a small rural village in Zimbabwe to comedy in Glasgow. So so talk about that. I think, when I was at school in Zimbabwe, I we still have that. It was called, even it was in the village where the a a a a drama, in session. So every year, we play every class, we have a a play. Like, I don't know sketches. Yeah. So so for me and the sketches, I was put as a a car engine. You know? It's like someone is driving a police car. I'm back. I'm making some noise. So I started giving these horrible, rules at at school. Finally, when I was moved to other countries that's after, I never thought, to accommodate. My friends will say, are you talking too much rubbish? This and stuff and but they were laughing though. So I think, in Scotland, they are always writing about things stuff. I think for me, the the most, thing makes me right was about the culture differences. Like, there's so many things when I arrive in UK. To me, it was a joke. You know? And that no one should speak about it. Like, for example, when I arrive in London, I see people walking dogs. I'm like, what's wrong with these British dogs? If I'm walking, You know? Because in the villages, we don't have dogs. Right? So I was because, like, shocked. So I studied like that. I'd see pick up all these things and make fun about myself. English is not my first language. Sometimes I read things wrong. Even today, people still misunderstood me. You know? Another thing I think is good for confidence as well. You know what I mean? You can think comedians are confident. Every time I go on the stage, I got this fright. I got this. There's this scary thing. You know? It's not always but once you pass that nerves, you automatically the that guy come at show he came, 27 6/17. I was I was working with a group from Ghana. They are dancers, Fante Acrobatics International. Fantastic group from Ghana. Like, really, really it's a family show. They do like dancing. So they asked me to host the show, like, introduce them what they got, like, 5 sets. So the first, I'm stuck with the audience. No one's laughing at all. Oh, this is not gonna work out. So I wanted to quit the job the next day because I like this is the room is full of 200 people, not even 1 person laughing because I'm not in the flyer. I remember that. They I just I'm I've just been called. So they ordered the board the tickets to watch the dance, to watch the storytelling. Not me. Right. So I scheduled the 3rd day. I'm like, okay. I'm gonna try this. I said, okay, guys. You're gonna go home. Right? You're gonna tell your friends that the show was wonderful. Everything was great, but that guy, that's me. This guy laughing. You know? I like, I got you. So I use the same thing. Again, it worked out and stuff like that. I'm still trying my best, and I run open nights in Glasgow for 4 years different. The other reason I wanna be honest with you because every time I try and talk to this Scottish comedian, they they they they attack me. There's there's a very, very, racial going on about the common circle. Racism is big. It's not only because of me, but I have to speak out sometimes, and then I get canceled in in some places. But they they love me. They they're still on my Facebook. If they didn't like me, they should go. You know? So so it was very hard for me to be booked and whatever and stuff. So I started an African place like a a open mic. It was nice. Lots of Scottish comedians come to join me. It was really good. Then it always got a bad apples, you know, like, not everyone is is bad, but I know some of them, they can be really that really bad. Like yeah. So it infected my mental health, when is that the attacks coming? Sometimes they cancel. No one's coming to your cake. Imagine the comedians cancelling the same hour. It's like they've been texting each other. That can make you feel, yeah, yeah, I'm comfortable in your mind. So that's how I stopped last year. This they cannot be set doing the open maths. I still do commercial. I was performing on Sunday. But running it, it'd be it can be a bit too much. But standard comment as well for me, there's a benefits for raising awareness. The the like, as an African, the jokes will make up up. You know, I mean, there can be jokes, but sometimes it's serious. If you look at it, some of the stories personal. Some of them is really happening. Like, I was writing something this morning. Like, when I came to Europe, I didn't know about the thing dating because my grandmother, she was doing that for me. You know? Like, you know, African African grandmother, they drink tea together. They decide. You know? Yeah. So everything was easy. But now here, you need to put an effort, £500 on the side and dress up cool. Whatever. Then I'm sorry. I just wanna be friends. I like I've got 200,000 friends on Facebook. I don't need you. Yeah. So, yeah, is good because I love even I'm not good. I mean I'm not good. Because if you are good, you should be on the BBC. Right? That's what they say. Right. I don't need BBC. Please. They're controlling. I I admire comedians so much. I really do. I've I've spent a lot of time with a lot of comedians, but I I the one thing that's always very, very clear to me is nobody is funny unless they've got, a a hard story behind them. The only Yeah. Because, I mean, comedy today really is about dark humor. Yeah. If you look at what's going on. I I I'll just talk about myself. Not all the comedians, but I work with comedians. There's, most of us comedians will have a very, very, very, depressing stories like life. Like, yeah, it's like a it's kinda like for me, it helps me to be confident to feel like I'm part of this community because, you know what I mean? You can go somewhere. People can laugh. Like, you know what I mean? The people are but when you move out of that circle, you go back home. You're alone. You know what I mean? And, deal with this asylum refugee and stuff. But if I can perform, like, twice, 3 times a week, I feel like I'm part of this community. Someone someone laugh at me. Like, back back home, I don't have to do comedy to make my brothers laugh. No. It's automatically because that's a family thing. But now you you don't have a family. You need to create this fit in thing. Like, that's why I got people laughing. Oh, I feel like I'm back again to that, the when I was young back home with my family. Even if I'm not fond, they'll laugh anything. Right? But, so it goes on. It's psychologically it stays with you that I wanna go back to that life where I used to be. Even if I'm not funny, everybody laughs. But how do you create that? That's why I become a comedian. Do something. Because, otherwise, if you sit down thinking about it, you're just destroying yourself. Yeah. Richard, were you gonna ask something? No. I I I I I wholeheartedly agree what we are both saying is that I love comedy. I I it's it's one of the few things I watch on television, you know, apart from sport, really. All the very, very best form of comedy has a very strong element of truth at the core of it. That that how it's actually funny. And you're describing it as the hard stories behind it. Yes. There is that element of of real life and real life experience that actually brings you to the level where people find it really fun. At least I do. Then again, I'm not mainstream, so maybe that doesn't work for everyone. But it certainly works for me in my sense of what I really enjoy laughing at is that border of dark and and life experiences that brings you to to to to to perform and and and be funny about it. Another aspect, which I think is incredibly important, and and something, I think, you know, people like yourself have, almost like a a a business story to sell is to go up on stage, stripped down on your own. It's like a musician without amplifiers. If you're no good, it's gonna be really hard. If I have amplifiers and light shows and smoke screens, I can be mediocre, and it will still come out okay. And that is a way to actually almost educate people how it is to be on stage, what your body language should be out, how you're confident, how you need to speak because it's actually difficult to articulate when you're on a stage with lots of people in the room. You might not always have amplifiers. You need to speak very clearly. Socrates and the stones or whatever. He had the marbles in his mouth when he was practicing to speak, you know, in ancient Greece. It's I am still amazed when I go to to conferences, where you have pretty senior people speaking and how bad they are on stage. Like like, really bad. You don't need to be great. You know? Not everyone is Mick Jagger. Right? But you need to be half decent if you're speaking in a public forum. And stand up comedy for me is like, this is where you learn to do it. The multi language, the articulation, how you connect with an audience. If you're speaking at the public forum and you don't connect, there's no point being there. And if you're a stand up comedy, you need to connect. That's the whole essence. Yeah. Before I go, Richard, there's someone who speak. There's something catch. I go for me, I always tell the audience before I start, guys. English is not my first language. If you don't understand me, can you just Google it? You give us opportunity to Google it or not. Yeah. Every time when I go to London, like, now I'm thinking about this, it's gonna happen. You don't have to laugh, guys, but it's true, Richard. You know, when you're on the UK trends, there's this woman keeps saying, if he sees something doesn't look right, please call the British Transport Police. So one day, I'll get fed up. I went to the bathroom. I look at myself. No. I don't look good. So I ring them up. Because English is not good. I ring them up. I'm like, I hear this woman keep saying if I don't see someone who doesn't look right, then I'll call you. Oh, yeah. They start panicking. Say, where are you? I'm like, I'm on the train to London. Okay. Oh. There you are. My goodness, mate. But I was yeah. So just just just a final one before we go because that that was probably a risky call. You could have been arrested for doing something like that in this day and age. But just before we go, so the the artists, the creatives, the musicians, they're all got a big part to play in sort of getting the message out around the world about what we need to do to give ourselves a chance at the future. Right? And I think comedy is obviously a big part of that. How are you integrating the climate story into your commit comedic act, or are you not doing that yet? Because I think you could probably do some pretty amazing stuff. No. We tried it in COP 26. I was running open mat, so it was specific for the climate change. It's very difficult as comedian because it's not a joke. Climate change is not a joke. So it's it's quite difficult to to work around it. But I only wrote one joke that time because I said, my brother always called me and said, Nico, we've been praying for rain, but the rain is not coming. I don't know why. I said stop praying in English because God can hear you. So if he's playing the whole language, man, God, he can give you rain and stuff. I don't know of us. So, yeah, comedian, they are willing to work with climate change. Don't get me wrong. There are a scene online. There's so many comedians who are getting far from climate change. Sometimes it's not about jokes as well. When we're done on COP 26, it was about kind of people sharing stories as well. Like, we had some delegates come from different countries like. I don't know if you know she was there. Then there was so many few people just to be there as well, and then people talk. That was the beginning. For personal, I think it's hard to write jokes about climate change. It's quite a bit, I don't know. I I think if it become like a storytelling, like, in my tribe, there's a moment when they try to get under the tree, the the playing drums and people dancing. They're kinda like actual talking. They're spiritual to bring the the good weather. Some of that aren't, for us as artists, musicians, I think there's a possibility because, everyone's got a story to tell. Alright. So when I look at when I look at, so the Asia Pacific region, I was looking at the, the consumer spending power in Asia is just blasted past every other region of the world. And, it's a it's an area of it's a it's a region of a great excitement about the future of like the Boeing announcement with its planes. Right? So if I was advising comedians in this area, I I would, I would get them to focus on, gorging. The gorging of the planet and, and every country's got its different cultures and values. And, like, you know, like, the plastic cup with the plastic lid with the plastic straw and a plastic bag, You know, that is used for 5 seconds and thrown in the bin. You know, I'd take the piss out of that. You know, but but within a cultural context so that it's relevant to the local audience. So I think just looking at the, excessive consumerism, you know, the fast fashion hauls. I'd you you see it on TikTok. Right? I I I do a a skit where I was taking the piss out of that. Because it's so ridiculous. You got, you know, 15, 20 items of clothing, and you only keep one because the rest are crap and it's so cheap. You throw it in the bin. You don't even send it back. You know, that sort of thing. So I'd I'd sort of maybe focus rather on climate change because as you said, it's not funny. But the behaviors that we're all entertaining, you know, going on a cruise ship, getting on a plane and go on a holiday that you don't necessarily need to do. Or getting on a plane, going on a holiday to going and suffer from extreme heat in Greece during the summer. Why was anyone going to Greece in that heat wave. Right? You know, that sort of stuff. So I I think that's maybe where comedy can sort of really focus. It's on our behaviors that are contributing to the bigger bigger crisis. Absolutely. Well, I was thinking about I'm gonna go now. I was thinking about like, I I always watch the Bushman documentaries. When they go hunting the bees, they don't never take the tree down. They go straight for the honey, and they leave the tree standing. But the other nations, when they come, they cut the tree down and maybe 4 pieces and take the bees. So the bees is a homeless. Imagine, And it's it just goes on and on. So I was like, imagine if everyone can follow the bushman's strategy, how they survive. They don't actual bushman, they never kill 5 elephants because of the horns. They only need one to eat. That's it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So and those people, they never brought to actual explain to talk because even the government's fear them. That's why now in Africa, they've moved them to cities. And then they're they're suffering because they're not they're not used to these lights and cars and stuff. You can see the stress they're going through. And because their land has been taken for, whatever and stuff. So for me, what I'm trying to make the point, I'm learning from the push man how they live. I think if other nations can just follow that smart way of thinking. The plan is to be safe place. Yeah. There's traditional traditional, elders of of our lands right across the world. That's where we need to be focusing. It's not about less, it's not about suffering, it's just about just calming it all down and being in balance with nature. Nico, absolutely awesome to see you. I wish you all the best, in your career as a comedian. I think you're gonna do amazing stuff. You've got a great smile, which I think is an important quality for a comedian. And it's great great to see you. We've had some great chats, coming soon. Always. Yeah. Thanks for listening in, guys. And, we'll see you in it's in a few weeks because I've, I've gotta Indeed. Spend some time with important people. But yeah. Take care, everyone. Alright. Take care, mate. Have a good week, and chat. See you soon. Thanks.