The Know Show – our longevity obsession, does it make sense?

A few weeks ago, we discussed the story of Bryan Johnson, a 46-year-old tech bro who cashed out a few years ago and now spends all his time trying not to die. Today he is suffering from long Covid, however he’s part of a bigger story about an obsession to work out how to live longer and healthier lives.  

At the centre is the longevity industry – a multi-billion-dollar industry – and it’s goal is to target aging at the cellular or molecular level, as well as promoting healthy aging and improving our quality of life. The industry consists of several distinct segments, including Gero science, Biomedicine, AgeTech, and Finance, however, do we really need people living longer? And if we do live longer, what will that look like when facing climate breakdown? Essentially, are we thinking this through?

To help us dig in, we’re so happy to welcome Dr. Zobaida Akhter from Bangladesh, who has a mission to empower people so they can value the importance of gender equity and equality in all spheres of life. A true commitment to equality and equity helps us to create a sustainable and gender-balanced society, where every person is treated fairly. Dr. Zobaida works in gender and culture in the workplace, along with media training through gender neutral language and gestures. It will be amazing to hear her point of view. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the planetary crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics and war, business and technology, social issues, and passion/humour/history. Join us. 

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To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

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Transcript

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Bag throughout the whole show. That longevity. Alright. Welcome to the No Show. My name's Andrea Edwards. My name's Tim Wade. And I'm Joe Augustine. And, welcome to a show that, tries to basically break you out of the, echo chamber you might be in and take you into the world that you may not be aware is happening, around you. Yeah. And from all over the world today, by the way. So hi from Australia. I'm in Singapore. And I'm in Thailand. And, unfortunately, we've lost our special guest for today who was in Bangladesh. But it's just 3 of us, which is always it's always great. And, Joe, for the first time, I think we've got better sound and and vision than you because you're in an apartment somewhere in the Gold Coast. Is that right? Yep. I'm in the Gold Coast. Apologies about the lack of the studio environment. I've got I I I brought a little microphone with me, but it I don't think it's worked out as well as I as I planned. No. It's okay. It's fine. It it makes my my setup look fantastic for the first time ever. Exactly. Tim, you haven't been up to join us, all that much lately. So, tell us tell us, what what have you been up to? For well, this semester. So I'm at Trinity still, so that the theological college. So the workload's fairly intense. I mean, today I've just been reading about neo orthodoxy, and my favorite topic. My favorite topic. Yeah. Well, I thought it was about how the matrix is awesome, but it it's not about that at all. So the the yeah. So I got an exam on Monday. So it's been kind of, like, pretty full on with that particular schedule. And in the last couple of weeks, I was over in in China, which was fantastic. Well, a week and a bit ago. So yeah. So it's been it's been pretty busy, but it's, it's always good, and it's nice to be back. Yeah. It's good to have you back. And we've got someone here from New Zealand. Hello? Good to have you here. Can't see who you are, so I'll I'll see it later. Alright. Should we get stuck in? Why not? Here we go. Let's do it. Alright. So we're gonna go through the quick takes first. So the first is, of course, we kicked off the week with Putin winning a landslide victory in Russia, but, of course, there was no other an there was no other possible outcome to that election. I did find the protests interesting. It seems to be brewing, so I hope those people have the courage to keep going. Joe? Well, in California, they're going through a massive prison reform program, which is well, it's been it's been received quite well. There's one strange exception to the reform program, which is those people on death row, but it's makes it for interesting read if you if you go on if you're on bbc.com, look out for this article. It talks about the situation in San Quentin and how people, when they're going to visit the people, or visit friends who may be, you know, on death row, what they have to go through, what they have to go past, crazily enough. But yeah. So interesting things for them there. Yeah. There was an article in, Sky News about, from a climate change perspective, climate news perspective about homes being swallowed up by the sea as rate of coastal erosion accelerates. And this is happening all around the world with countries like UK saying 21 villages and hamlets in England. So this is not just, like, 21 tiny places. They're fairly fairly sizable. Will lose more than half a1000000000 pounds worth of residential property to, due to coastal erosion by, the end of this century, which is, what, 75, 76 years away. So over the course of this time, basically, houses and villages and settlements are just falling into the sea. Yeah. And I think 21100 is incredibly conservative based on what we see going on. And I I saw I saw another article there. What's his name? One of the British politicians is planning on building these enormous housing estates in Cambridge, and Cambridge is actually one of the towns at risk of going under. So I thought that was really interesting. A bizarre story. A man in Melbourne has died after falling from a hot air balloon, and it looks like it was suicide. So I can only imagine how horrendous that must have been for the fellow passengers as well as the people on the ground where his body fell. Yep. Greenpeace could be thrown out of a UN deep sea mining body after a a mining company claim activist disrupted a research expedition when they boarded the vessel, boarded a vessel in remote in the remote Pacific. I'm tempted to go and join them. Yeah. You should, Joe. Czech Republic, is in crisis as it struggled to contain a surge of whooping cough. I had to say whooping cough like that as a shout out to, I think, what, family guy or something like that. But whooping cough is no laughing matter. It is is a, it is pretty alarming, and it's not the first country to experience it. That article again from bbc.com. Yeah. So Japan's Japan's sorry. Famous cherry trees are blossoming earlier due to climate change. And I don't know if you know the story. The records for the cherry trees go back 100 of years, so it's one of the the climate measures that has been very, very long term. So the average date at which they start to bloom has moved up 1.2 days per decade since 1953, And Tokyo's cherry blossoms this year will start blooming on March 21st, which was yesterday. Wow. I think we should stop climate change as soon as the cherry blossoms get to school holidays. Then we should stop the climate change so that we can all go and see them. Nice. Well, speaking of, temperatures, heat extremes are happening around the world. Brazil this week recording, for the 2nd day in a row, and this is not a this is not a misprint, by the way. Temperature's above 60 degrees Celsius. In Sudan, everything is closed down as its temperatures as it prepares for 45 degree, heat waves expected in the last, 2 weeks. And, good luck to everyone especially as none will have the ability to cool themselves with air conditioning. So That's crazy. Sixty degrees. Yeah. That's what we call it. Crazy that you well, that 60 degrees is actually, just about nice enough to to to kind of, pasteurize your eggs. I'm a little bit Yep. I mean, I'm really, really surprised by that. Yeah. So it's a wet bulb temperature, and the Sedan temperature is an actual temperature. So I'm not sure what the wet bulb will be for Sedan, but it's got I mean, 45 degrees is gonna be excruciating. Right. So this number, 60 degrees, is a is a wet wet bulb number, then it's not the it's not the okay. Great. Okay. Okay. Right. That's that's my understanding of it. If someone else knows differently, tell me if I'm wrong. Well, Kate Middleton probably doesn't know differently. She's at the moment currently being devastated by FotoFourer. And we can't ignore that those shenanigans, but but, she may discuss what went on health wise, but sometimes I just feel like our obsession with the royals is is it's harmful to people. I mean, I I guess if you're you know, some people go, well, boohoo, you're a royal, but at the same time, she's a person. Can we just leave her alone? And, but, you know, I mean yeah. I I I Yeah. I don't have much more to say about it, but that's on the daily beast.com if you wanna go and check it out. Right. Yeah. I think we should be we should be a little bit more indifferent about it, actually. There's a there's an interesting story here about, about about noodles, instant noodles. So the I mean, instant noodles were were obviously invented to to make things very convenient for the Japanese workforce because, you know, in terms of being able to to have a quick meal, nothing faster than just throwing some hot water into a cup with the noodles and you're done. But it also has become, of course, you know, over the years, a very convenient source of calories, very very cheap source of, I would say, not so healthy calories, but it's very quick and fast. And there is this piece in cna that talks about how now instant noodles have become a an economic red flag, in the sense that when you see it happening a lot in either in particular groups or certain societies, really shows you that it's a sign of, it it it's it's a it's a sign of a lower strata kind of, emerging. So, you know, like, in in in US prisons, for instance, we used to to hear all about trading cigarettes. Right? But now it's, it's noodles. So noodles, are becoming, like, a a currency for the prisons, and around the world as well as prices are going up. I guess when you're not having cereals for lunch and dinner, you might be doing, instant noodles, which arguably is a little bit more delicious, but not very much more nutritious. Yeah. I've I've been doing a fair bit of research into the impact of the food that we have, in my middle class dream series. And, you know, so in these noodles and, and I find this really fascinating because men's underpants and women's and, and not women's and lipstick are 2 economic indicators. Right? And so it was interesting to see the noodles coming up as another one, so it's an indication that things aren't going well. But, when you understand sort of the chemicals in the food, things like MSG, of course, but also the the the microplastics leaching into the food because they're in a plastic container with a plastic lid, and you chuck it in the microwave and put boiling water on it. You know, but but millions and millions of people around the world, that's how they can eat. But even if they were eating cereals, that's also got stuff in it that's not good for us either. So Yeah. Yeah. Well, you you can't you can't just say, men's underpants are an economic indicator without elaborating a little bit more about that. So let's let's take you back there as well. Yeah. Right. So, you know, when there's a reduction in in, purchasing power of men's underpants, it's a sign of the economy, changing direction and going not in the right direction. So for women's lipstick. So women's lipstick, obviously, during the pandemic, people were out less. They bought less less lipstick, and so that became an economic indicator at at the time. So I thought it was interesting. But men's underpants. Yeah. I guess I'm surprised you haven't heard about that. Men's underpants would have gone up during COVID because everyone was just only wearing that during their Zoom call. Yeah. Right. I've only I've only ever bought a batch of underwear once. It was 20 years ago, and the the rest of them were still hanging on right now. Yeah. Via thread. It were a box of I wanna give my I wanna give my camera a bit of a wipe as well, see whether this bixby look any less fuzzy. Okay. Sorry for that. Yeah. Oh, thank you so. That was with an old pair of underpants. There you go. It's the one I'm wearing right now. It's a real stretch. Yeah. Yeah. No. There's lots of different, indicators. There's lots of different indicators and, men's men's underpants and things like socks as well. They're they're part of the Yeah. Alright. So a really, really interesting piece in Media Matters titled how broadcast TV networks covered climate change in 2023, and it starts that sort of talking about the fact that 2023 was the hottest year on record, and it was not even close to previous records. Testifying to this calamitous milestone were record breaking extreme weather events and a record number of$1,000,000,000 disasters. This is obviously just talking about the US, from searing heat waves to droughts, torrential rains, to raging wildfires, and plumes of smoke. Despite this, media networks like the ABC, CBS, NBC, and Fox scaled back their climate coverage by 25%, and that's a marked decrease from the the 2 years before with improvements with well, they consider had been made. So it's about the findings. Corporate broadcast TV. So if you ever visit a corporate office, you'll see they've got TVs in in their in their offices. They featured less than 1% of their coverage on climate change. And, another point, for at least the 7th year in a row, white men dominated the demographics of guests featured on climate sec segments. So 52% of guests on morning news, evening news, and Sunday morning political programs were white men. Women only were 30% of the guests, and women of color were 10%. Now for all sorts of reasons, women are the people most impacted by all of these disasters, but we still don't have a voice at the table, and we don't have a voice in the media. And I think this is a really dangerous exclusion, and the media need to sort it out. Solutions or actions that may be taken in response to climate change were mentioned in 22% of climate segments, which is, you know this is the action bit is the hope bit, so talking about what we can do and how we can do it is important. And then the final point, discussions of climate justice, which focuses on the disproportionate effect of climate change on socially marginalized communities and the need for equitable solutions in addressing global warming, we're mostly lacking from TV news. I I need 5% of coverage, and the year before, it was 3% of coverage. So there's a lot of big misses going on in the media in many ways, but I thought that that was quite alarming considering the year that we've just had in the news that's coming out about that year, which I'll talk about when I do a couple more pieces later. So I think I think it's important to note as well that this is, it's not an opinion, but actually the data is actually about what is the state of affairs. It is what is despite what's happening. So it's not one of those things where we just think it should be more. It really is just a state of the numbers that that that that, that that that are out there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's not looking good in Haiti at the moment, a country that's consumed by violence and, of course, that's where the most vulnerable suffer. UNICEF's executive director, Kathryn Russell, has called the situation in Haiti horrific and likened the lawlessness to the post apocalyptic film Mad Max. Certainly, the latest violence in Port au Prince is a reminder, if anyone needed, that Haiti remains closer to anarchy than stability. For pregnant women, the situation is dire, and both women and babies are dying from preventable issues. Today, Haiti is seen as a failed state. It's experienced months of turmoil and political instability following the murder of president Jovenel Moise in July 2021, which has culminated in the current state of extreme gang violence. The fighting has already claimed many thousands of victims from those whose bodies lie strewn in the streets to others forced from their homes and living where wherever they can to be safe. There are 360,000 internally displaced people in Haiti. Helicopters, helicopter flights bringing aid in from the Dominican Republic have begun to arrive. But with the airport in Port au Prince and the port both still closed, not enough can get through for those people in need, so people are starving. The political impasse, which has followed the resignation of prime minister Ariel Henry, continues. Asians are Haitians are, constantly told that a US backed transitional council comprised of 7 members is close to becoming a reality, but the instrument administration has still not taken power or brought about any kind of stability on the ground in Haiti. The longer the power vacuum continues, the more security situation the the security situation descends, into anarchy. It leaves 1,000,000 caught in the perfect storm of politics, violence, homeland homelessness, and hunger. It's a pretty dire situation there. Yeah. There's a town in the north of Haiti. I can't remember what its name is, but apparently, they fought off the gangs, and they've become quite stable. So if anyone is actually able to get there, especially the the the pregnant women and the small children, they they can be helped. But, a lot of malnourishment in the children. It's just terrible. It's just terrible what's happening there. You know what? What but what's interesting is is it a, a sort of a periscope into a future of resorselessness and gang and and where society could descend if we don't get things right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the learning. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, it's it's very sad. And there's some other situations around the world that are equally devastating, but Haiti is, yeah, it's horrible. Just a quick one. Banksy was back in the news this week following a new work that appears to paint leaves onto a large tree. The artwork covers the wall of a 4 story building and shows a small figure holding a pressure hose beside a large cherry tree. This tree had been chopped back and it's called pollarding. It was the first time I'd seen that word. I'm sure it's not actually the first time, but it's just the first time it's sort of registered. Anyway, that's when they pruned the tree back. So it was first spotted in Finsbury Park in North East East London, and all of the early media coverage was around, was it a Banksy piece? And, of course, until he or she put it up on their social media channels, we didn't know, but it was confirmed to be Banksy. And then after that, the conversation was centered around whether or not Banksy is making an environmental or climate emergency statement. Anyway, people are talking about it, and obviously, Finsbury Park are loving it. So it's a nice little piece of news. Yep. Well, there's a a different kind of story about leaves. Not a very good one. This this is about floods, wild fires, hurricanes, all that kind of stuff. I know it's a very tenuous link I tried to make with that one. But you you always hear about insurance and and and the challenges about insurance. Well, the world is coming to a point right now where insurance, is increasingly difficult, to get, and for a number of reasons. One is, first of all, the the the likelihood of fires and and and disasters. Things that used to be a 1 in a 100 years event are happening, you know, on a on a more regular basis. In Queensland here where last year they they had some terrible floods, all these things with people normally wouldn't have for a very long time, happening on a more regular basis. So what's happening, in in the US, especially, and especially in California, is a bit of a problem because what what what has happened is the risk of all these events haven't go has gone up. And insurance is actually a very natural thing. What they do is they calculate the risk, they price the risk, and they offer it to you as something that you can inch you can insure yourself against. You can you can, mitigate for the risk. But while they've been they've been increased risks, for everyone to bear, they've also had a simultaneous thing where what they're trying to do is contain the cost. So legislation, actually, is saying that they can't increase the cost of insurance, but the the the the caps that they've put on people being able to increase, on on the the the premiums on insurance can't keep up with the risk. So, unfortunately, what happens is private insurance can't offer a fair, insurance policy, fair from their perspective as a as a business, so that people can take it up. So the the the the government then has to step in. And what we're looking at or what the US anyway is looking at is a situation where the insurer, I would say the default insurer, which becomes the state in the end, could be facing a severe financial crisis because the risks are high. Private insurance can't, provide the kind of support that it would do to the market. And if there's some big calamities, basically, it's very likely that these local governments, these regional governments, will probably default on the insurance. So it's quite a tenuous time for them. They have increased risks and they have an insurance policy by an insurer, the government, the local governments that may not be able to pay up if the big thing happens. So that's the story that they've got. And if you wanna find out more about that, you can, chase down Amapo and company, on YouTube. There's an interesting, piece of it on that. One of the things that they talked about in that interview, I I found it really fascinating, was that, basically, insurance is the core of the financial industry, which that was the first time I'd really sort of heard that mentioned. Do you would I mean, I'm putting you on the spot here, Joe, but didn't. Yeah. Can you can you explain why that matters so much? Okay. Well, what what insurance is essentially is this? The act the actuary is the people who are, you know or someone with a speech impediment might say, you know, actuary, the problem is well, what actually, it's about looking at all the statistics. So there's a 1 in 10 chance that this will happen. There's a 1 in 15 chance that this will happen. It's a 5% chance that this will happen. Right? So what what you do is you you buy insurance against it so that in the worst case of scenarios, you don't have to face the full brunt of it. Now so the insurance is a business where all the risk is taken on and is diversified, and it makes it possible so that if something happens to you, your business continues. So if you think about the infrastructure around you, for instance, your home, your life, and if you have if you're running a business, all these things, are gonna come to a complete stop if something calamitous happens and you don't have insurance. So that's why insurance actually makes for business continuity. If you have insurance in place, if there's a fire, there's a chance for a rebuild because you have the means to do it. It may take some time, but you have the means to do it. But if you're not insured, then that really is the end of it because as as as you well know in life, as you struggle, as you move forward and you amass some money or some capital, it takes all that time and the opportunity that you have along the way as well. So insurance is basically a way to lock in some of that. It's not to completely take it in, but to lock in some of that so you can basically have some traction, on your present circumstance if something terrible were to happen. I hope I hope that kinda helps. Yeah. Yeah. And, they were talking about, you know, like, if you can't insure a property, you can't live in a property, or you can't buy a property unless you've got the money to pay for it. If if it if it or you can't get it, you can't get a mortgage on a property if you can't insure a property. Right? And obviously, America, just like many other countries, is experiencing housing shortages. So it's gonna ripple over into that too, you know. So the ripple effects of it It's really it's really quite a massive issue. And, you know, I I was reading the other day. So Florida and Carol, California have both had major insurance companies move out. Oregon's now being put on a high risk list because of fires. Yeah. So so parts of the US which weren't in that category are starting to move into that category. So I think being, being aware of it, and if you've got a property in a, in a place that's at risk, it's probably a good time to get out of people just stupid enough to buy it now. You know? Have you seen, have you seen, the east coast up near Maine? Have you seen the, the, the flooding that's been going on with high tides? And, they built the, like the, these group of people put this, spent $500,000 on a sandbank and it was almost instantly washed away. You know? So, like, this you can't we can't escape this. You know? The water is coming. Well well, there's some people who are doing it now this way. They they they go in with their eyes wide open, and they realize that when they when they buy a property, especially if it's in a wooden area somewhere out in the country, that they're looking at a complete loss. That's the that's the kind of calculation that they have, and some people are prepared to do that. They think it's a worthwhile way to live because it's slightly less expensive in terms of an investment, and they like the lifestyle, and they're prepared to roll the dice with it. So you're right. For people who need to take a mortgage and stuff like that, no insurance or the inability to insure, is certainly that's gonna something it it really is gonna stop those who need it the most, from being able to get the financing they need. Yeah. So invest in noodle shares and underpants, maybe. No. Under underpants is when I think it was the other way. Yeah. It's either good or bad. Yeah. But yeah. You don't wanna invest in underpants if the economy is going down. Yeah. Alright. So an important article in nature.com. I shared this on, LinkedIn the other day. So Gavin Schmidt, who is the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, published an article this week saying that with all the data available, climate scientists cannot fully account for 20 twenty three's heat anomaly. I I you know, this is one of those stories that should be in the headlines everywhere, but, of course, it's not. As we know, media coverage on the climate crisis has reduced. But, so last year, average land and sea surface temperatures have overshot previous records each month by up to 0.2 degrees Celsius, which doesn't sound like much, but this is a huge margin when you look at it from a planetary scale. And there's a lot of reasons cited, and you if you're paying attention to this, you know, obviously, it's the impact of greenhouse gas emissions. El Nino, which is apparently now on the way out, sulfate reduction, especially in the shipping lanes in the in the in the north, the Hunga Tonga volcano eruption. But none, even when combined, account for the anomaly. So it's leaving, scientists fairly stumped. And Yep. I think it's a really important piece of writing from one of the top climate scientists in the world. Basically, what he said is we just don't know. What we do know is we need more data and we need to do our work faster. So, you know, so much of the climate research that we read is already old. You know, there was a an article on, I think it was on, life forms in the ocean off California, and it was talking about a heat blob event that happened in 2013 to 2014. And now we're looking at what's happening in the ocean now, which is so much more extreme than back then, but we but that's the information that we're referencing. So, because everything is accelerating, what we need from our scientists is for them to help us as quickly as possible, but it's very difficult the whole peer reviewed research program, process. Right? But the governments also need this because, you know, as we've seen in recent years, they're all scrambling to catch up because they were following the data and the data is now accelerating. Well, the and the reality is accelerating beyond the data, but the governments are still focusing their actions on this older data. So it's a it's a real problem. So, look, when it comes to everything to do with the planetary crisis, there is always gonna be an absence of information, And I think being aware of where where those absences are is important because even though you don't have the information, the lack of information is information in itself. I always say that. Right? But because there's just so many parts of the world where it's impossible. You know, in Antarctica in the last few years, I've had a team of international sciences scientists out there for a couple of months of the year when it's possible doing the work, or in the deep deep ocean. You know, they they just don't know what's going on. We're discovering new life forms in the in the depths of our ocean just now. You know, and they're talking about deep deep sea mining. Right? So Yeah. We got a lot we got a lot challenges, but I don't see it as a failure of science like many are talking about. I see it as a failure of technology, investment, definitely investment, government commitment and global collaboration, which is certainly lacking, along with the process of science, which which which exists for a good reason because, you know, we don't want just wild guesses coming out. Right? We need we need the process, but the but the speed of the process is too slow. And, you know, when you look at things like the IPCC reports, I always read it through the layer of it being a consensus report, which means it's going to be much, much more conservative than the reality on the ground. So I think it's a really important read and he concludes that based on past data, August is when the global system is expected to to stabilize. And if it doesn't, then we've moved into uncharted territory. So it's an interesting time. I mean, it reminds me of the movie, what was it, 2012 or something? When Yeah. They they sort of made all these predictions, and then they then then he sort of came up and said, we we really don't know what's it's accelerating faster beyond all our models. So and and what your what that article was saying was our models can't get to the depth of the oceans, for example, and can't get it we can only scratch the surface on some of it, and there's a lot of assumptions involved, but it's dire. And, I I like the fact that he said we don't know. Yeah. Me too. Because it's it's, that in a way, that's more alarming. And so anybody that says, well, this is nonsense because of this, it kinda shuts them down a little bit because the truth is you can't know to say that, but what we do know is this and everything else is speculation. So, but it does say it's dire and that there's that it may be moving faster than certainly moving faster than we are. We already know that from the last 5 decades. But Yeah. But, but it could go even faster, and we're just not prepared. Well, the challenge that that the world faces right now actually is a lack of scientific understanding, as in, like, you know, the the lot of people who are in charge who don't understand science. They have the wrong idea in terms of what it means to have a scientific report, for instance. And when they say, like, follow the science, they believe that science is something that is it it it's it's it's just, it's it's, it's binary. It's true now and forever, that kind of thing. Right? Yeah. And what science is always doing is it's uncovering new information to understand the same thing. So the world we know, for instance, like physics of the world, it should be, it should be a stable and unmoving thing. But we're learning more and more things about quantum physics, for instance. We're going deeper and deeper into the science, and now we're understanding a bit more. The things that we can account for in the physical world, bit by bit, we're going like, oh, but there's a there's another thing we're learning about, another thing we don't know about that we're trying to figure out. So with with with this as well, I think it's important to know that while because a lot of people take the advantage, not a lot of people. Some people take advantage of the fact that, oh, we don't know, so we don't have to worry about that. And, actually, it's a wrong it's a wrong way of looking at this. We don't have a complete picture. Therefore, we can't definitively say great polishing, by the way, Tim. We can't definitively say that, you know, like, it's because of this and because of that. So people use that excuse to say, oh, because the scientists can't know for sure what's happening, we can therefore there's a kind of an escape clause. Right? But, you know, scientists have a kind of idea. There's a there's a there's a space where we have hypothesis. Right? Whether you see all the evidence and you go like, well, the the hypothesis that is the most likely, is such and such and such. Right? So in in in science, it's usually frowned upon when you try to go with the hypothesis. People are saying, well, now we need to go and and and prove it to to take it to the next level, which is, in the very confusing term, a theory, where it's more it it actually has more foundation. So, you know, when when you when you when what what we need is more people to understand science, more leaders to understand science, and people to communicate science. You need people to be able to tell somebody else why something makes sense even though last week it seems to be that science said something else. Because right now, not enough people know that. And what is what what it leads to right now is actually is science skeptics. People think that, you know, science doesn't know. Science is changing its story, changing its mind, whatever it is. And when, literally, if you study and understand science, that is the nature of it. The publishing even when you hear about a paper being published or something like this, it there's every chance that there is some kind of controversy about the paper. It's different than the past. It's a new update, whatever it is. And that's literally what science is about. It's about finding out what's new and then seeing what's wrong with it so that they can they can, you know, like, duplicate a result, for instance. So, the world needs more scientific people. It needs to understand science better, and it needs definitely more scientific how not calculators, scientific communicators. I wish the world would kind of I wish the world would kind of personally, I wish the world would kind of, acknowledge what you just said, Joe, about the changing nature of science when it comes to thinking about theology. But let's move past that and get straight into mister Trump, who is in the news yet again. This time it's about He's in the news. Strange. Yeah. It's amazing he's in the news. I think he just loves the news. But in this case, his news isn't isn't that great news for him. It's about his bond for the New York fraud case. His lawyers have said that he is unable to get the $464,000,000 guarantee. So he can't find a private company to guarantee this giant amount that he's been ordered to pay in the New York civil fraud case, and he must either pay the full amount in cash or secure a bond to avoid having his assets seized. If he's unable to do so by the 25th March, which is, what, in 3 days' time, he faces the prospect of some of his real estate assets being seized by the state's attorney general. In his statement, mister Trump said that the bond he was asked to pay would be impossible for any company, including one as successful as mine. I don't know if he said quite like that. I don't know. Your Never mind. I haven't done drop in a while. The bonding companies believe me. Believe me. The bonding companies have never heard of such a bond of this size before, he said. Mister Trump's team spent countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world, but they concluded that very few bonding companies will consider a bond of anything approaching that magnitude. The lawyers said that they'd approached 30 companies without success. This, of course, also means and this is the super, super dangerous part about this. He he's running for president, and let's say he gets in, but had managed to secure 460$4,000,000 worth of bonding, but not from the United States. So what does that mean? I mean, he could be very vulnerable for foreign influence. Let's just pick a couple of countries out of thin air. Russia, Saudi Arabia, anywhere, quite frankly. Potentials I mean, they've got the potential to cough up the money. But if they do, what, you know, promises will they expect in return? So keep an eye on it. Where where does the money come from, or does he lose some of his $1,000,000,000 assets? Yeah. Well, the the the thing that is is important to note about this is that it's not that a bond like this hasn't been made before. People have actually companies come forward to do to to take up bonds like that. Right? When the risk is considered to be a good risk. That's something that we wanted to kind of understand about this. So, you know, the the idea that the insurance industry can't come up with this kind of a bond is not true. It's because no one wants to do the bond for Trump. That's the truth about that. That's that's the difference between the story. I did the calculations, and this is not a good deal. Yeah. I think you the word Trump. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to add, you know, we were talking about, the anti science. So I was just reading an article. It's basically talking about how we've gone into World War 3 already. We just haven't noticed and it's basically information warfare, but also intelligence and the masses following, you know, authoritarian sort of governments, populist governments, that sort of thing. But one of the things that jumped out at me, there's been a 13 point decline in human IQ since 1975. I I'm responsible about I'm responsible for at least 12 of those. I'm I'm responsible for the other 112. Yeah. Right. But what what I found really interesting about that stat is, they actually think because of the novel entities in our environment, so plastics, microplastics, the chemicals, and all that sort of stuff, It's actually that's what's responsible for the decline of IQ. I think that I think it's I think it's social media. I think we're getting our information from dumb sources. From 19 since 1975. So we can't blame social media. That's really only sort of came about in 2,006. But more mainstream sort of 2,010. You know? But yeah. But but when you start looking at all the So what's the nigga movies? Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were the eighties. I'm I'm gonna say, actually, it's about it's cultural as well. I think what's happened is we've had a shift in terms of what we treasure and what we think is important. Right? I mean, it used to be way back in the good old days when it was really about, you know, reading, writing, and arithmetic. Right? It was, it it was a time when really education, information, reading, and getting more books or whatever was seen as a really a really big thing. I think it has declined over time. It's it's it's been a a a culture of you know, I was just talking to somebody the other day, and, I realized that this whole idea of emotional intelligence has taken over the world. And it's it's not taken over the world, I feel, in a healthy way in the sense that it's it's not been alongside intelligence in the usual sense of the word, but it's kinda replacing that as in, like, you know, I don't care what the facts are. I know what I feel. And I I I No. I see that it's a huge I don't see that it's a nation state as more as pluralism. Oh, no. No. I mean, look. It's it's it's about it's about just this this this it's the rise of self esteem without the lack it's it's the rise of self esteem without the the cred to go along with that. You don't you don't, you know it's it's like I'm I'm very confident in myself now, but I have little little reason to because we've come to a point where now, you know, everybody has a right to be to be to be confident, to be happy, to be to be everybody is, you know, everybody's opinion is is is, in the EQ, it would be very low EQ. Sorry? Yeah. But so you're talking about toxic positivity. Right? Yeah. I mean I mean, it's a combination of things, which I I I think what it does is it then it reduces the need for you to kind of review things intellectually, and that's what actually helps to breed IQ. IQ is actually the you can actually increase your IQ with the practice of going through puzzles and thinking, well, you can actually increase your your your IQ, and you can get done with a beer. Right? So that that's the kind of thing that you can work on. You need to you need to I I think the world needs to spend a bit more time on being intellectual and and and having more fun. And there's there's been a decline socially in terms of the the the the how intellectuals are viewed. And I think if you look back at the curve, I think and seventies is about right. And that that was the last time it really was kinda cool to be intellectual. Yeah. Color television. Let's go with color TV as being the problem. Yeah. There you go. Was the thing in the seventies. TV was the thing where it was just draining the IQ of the nation as everybody sat in front of the box and just was fed whatever was fed. So it's media, social media, but it was one way. And now it's now it's the blind leading the blind on social. No. I think it's lack of lack of investment in education, especially in wealthy countries. I think Australia, the UK, America, they've really, really dropped back on their education. I think there's social issues, you know, pregnancy, how healthy the women are, giving birth to children that, you know, whether drug, alcohol, or just full of toxic, novel entities. But the numbers there was this this article I was reading. I'm gonna put it in my weekend reads. It's a really good one. They were talking about what the issues, and what what's causing it, especially with information and misinformation. And number 6 of 6 is the simple minded. And and it when Donald Trump was elected elected, they showed this huge sort of map of where he really dominated in the election. And, the opioid epidemic and, people on Zanac and anti depressives and of the the the the scale of people who were using, those sort of medications was incredibly high. So there's I think there's a lot of different factors, and it's a concern that we need to get on top of. And also, every time, the intellectuals are attacked, you look at, the fall of Persia, the the the first place they go after, the extremists go after are the intellectuals. So attacking the in intellectuals is always a sign of it's it's not gonna move the society forward. We need we need them even though they can be pompous sometimes. Right? Well, you know, once the party starts, you have to get rid of the boring people. Right? I mean Alright. Joe, an interesting one on, incest. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the next time you say, you know, hello, brother, next to someone, to someone else. Based on the, the the increase of, DNA testing in the world, we're finding out there's a lot more incest perhaps going on in the world. I'm I'm not sure if this is necessarily a surprise, especially if you perhaps come from certain states in the US. I I can't I can't name any of them off the top of my head, but, I was just looking at the, or watching the the story of Boeing very recently, and, I think their recent past CEO, all all part of this declining story of Boeing over the years, actually, I think ended up with his cousin. You know, and I and I and I can I can kinda understand how you like people who are familiar, but, the the the there's no need to go all the way with them? But yeah. So according according to this DNA, the the the rising results of DNA, it it's it's a it's it's showing up signs of that inbreeding. Now it's important to note also actually that that, we do all sort of come from the same place. I I mean, that that ultimately is is is one of the fundamentals of genetics. Right? If we go back enough steps, we are actually coming out of the same bridge as same same branches. And it it's sometimes, you know, it's a it's it's a pretty complex side it's a it's a pretty complex idea. There's something about it that was supposed to be was supposed to be set up to to to avoid that kind of, pairing. It's good for it's good for genetics. It's good for health and all those reasons. But it also is something that is is a reality. When you go back enough steps, enough generations, and you look enough cultures that it actually isn't as rare a thing. So the fact that it's showing up to me is not that strange. It's more like a fact. The fact that if you're, you know, if if you if you if you test for something, this is just gonna show you that, yep, that's kind of the way it's been going down. And maybe it's a case of maybe it's a case of western culture not realizing it's as prevalent in some parts some other parts of the world as, as you previously didn't know. Other than the monarchy? Yeah. Yeah. Monarchies. Well, yes. There's always the monarchy as well. Yes. Well, yeah, I I found it really interesting. I I've never done one of those DNA tests. Have you guys ever done it to find out, you know, where you're from and what Yep. Have you found I've done it. And, I'm 1% African, apparently. Yeah. So I'm I'm 25% embarrassing. I think I think that's a little bit inaccurate. Yeah. You didn't need to do a DNA test for that. Yeah. What I found so a long time ago, I was my grandmother was turning a 100, and, I I thought, I'll try and get some DNA from her and do a test and give it to her for a 100th birthday. But obviously in a different country, so I couldn't do it. But in the process, I started reading about, the what what are those companies called? Ancestry.com? 23andme well, ancestry.com is actually, about tracing the information part of it, but, 23 and me is the one that actually does the DNA the DNA there. Okay. Right. But yeah. But what what I found interesting is what what basic of these reports against submitting your DNA say is, just be really careful because when when when an insurance company gets access to your DNA, if you've got health insurance, your DNA tells them what your risks are. So before those risks even happen, the, the insurance could say, if this happens, we won't insure you. You know? So if your DNA says you're going to have some sort of heart issue at some point, they, they can actually take it out of the insurance. So I don't know. I think we're a little bit free and easy with our data, and it's part of the Well, I can I can reassure you about insurance? Right? In terms of insurance and I and those are governments as well. There there are many governments, and I'm not saying it's universal, but there are many governments where the merit the the moratoria in place. Maybe Singapore is, of course, again, a leading edge example where the government has put a policy together with insurers that takes into consideration ideas about genetic testing and stuff like that, what they, have a right to know, what they don't need what what what insurance don't need to know, and the implications about insurance. And it's not always as as as, as bad as we think because, like, I've I've thought I've got friends in the US, for instance, where their insurance companies, when they when they find out that you actually have a higher probability of getting a particular disease, what they do is they actually as part of your insurance will actually give you more coverage for the testing to prevent the ultimate disease because it's actually financially cheaper for them to prevent the disease that you are likely to get than to actually have you have the disease and then cover the cost. So there there are lots of unexpected benefits, I'm sure, along with the expected downsides, but government is working very hard. I know I know that, for instance, Australia had a bit of a difficulty as well. So we, like Singapore, we try to do is we try to learn from everybody else's mistakes. Right? So I think something happened in Australia in terms of in terms of the, the the the DNA data, where, you know, we we I can't remember the details of it, but I know Singapore basically has come up with a moratorium with the insurance industry. And it's something that is is is not, unique only to Singapore. Countries are putting these, agreements together, these understandings together. Actually, what we need is actually how, an understanding about what you need to do with your own data because you can be too honest. You know, there there there is what you need to declare and what you don't declare. And if you find out as a customer, actually, as a as a as a as an individual, if you find out what your rights are, you can you you can do a much better job, with dealing with your insurance. You should know what is an illegal question for the insurer to ask you. And, I mean, the good thing about this actually is because of such rules, the insurance companies have a lot to lose if they ask the wrong question as well. So it's a double edged sword. You know, it's it's it's it's stuff they can know about you, but there's also legislation in place to kinda protect you. So go and find out a bit about it. Don't just don't just have a bad feeling about it and think it's terrible because here's here's what I think about DNA testing. It it it is actually very useful to know. I mean, you can actually know ahead of time that, for instance, for women that you have a a a propensity for BRCA, which is the the the it's linked to breast cancer. I mean, I I don't know enough about to tell you which one, but it's a one, 2. There's a whole bunch of that. Right? You can take the necessary actions, to reduce your risks of, of such things creeping up, for instance. Right? And and it's it's just something for your own benefit, and it is it's it's it's something that is useful to know. It it's not actually to to me. It's it's if you have a choice between, finding out and then not knowing, if that is a choice you have, I I would say not knowing is doesn't necessarily make doesn't make your life any better. It makes it riskier for you, you know. You if you if you have the ability to choose between knowing and not knowing, I I would suggest go with knowing so that you can make decisions around that. There there there are plenty of discussions, of course, about things like what what you feel is like. For instance, you know, you might get dread because you find out that you, you have a a a 50% chance of some terrible disease happening right now, for instance. But then again, you know, you you you can you can do something about that. You can try and work your your way around it. So that's just my idea about it. It's not not necessarily a universal idea. Many people feel protecting your happiness, your personal happiness sometimes is, is a greater priority. My DNA is that I had, likely stronger smell sensitivity. Like, I could pick up smell, and that's completely true. Like, it's completely true. Like, I can smell some people can't smell. And I was like, yeah, but you can't. And I didn't realize that everyone smelled different levels of sensitivity for the last time. You know what they say about he who smelted. Right? Well, it also took that too, actually. I reckon I could have been a nose. My my, my my sensitivity is so high, which is not which is not a blessing if you can smell everything. Let me assure you. If I walk into someone's house and they've got a dirty toilet, I can smell it. And it's that's that's actually quite painful. Yeah. It's cracking away. Yeah. So I I would recommend in the Atlantic, I I'd recommend I mean, it's it's a it's not a nice topic, incest, of course, and most people would wanna step away. But I I found the stories from the from the people who were born to incest, you know, some of them completely abandoned by their families, some of them raised, by mothers that, you know, the father or the brother was the parent. Yeah. And were not necessarily treated very well. Some were adopted. And it just really talks about their experiences. And I thought I thought it was really powerful. So this is very this is immediate inserts. This is not finding out in your ancestry. This is somebody Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. People people as adults finding out. Yeah. And it's through these DNA sites that this come up. Netflix show or something or other about a doctor in America that when people came in for, infertility treatment, he used his own semen. And basically, half the town were his kids. Yeah. Like and they were getting married to each other and everything else, and they didn't know until it all was revealed. And then everybody's in this, like, identity crisis problem, horror, disaster, everything. Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's it's slightly less I just muted you because you got some back background noise, so maybe just mute yourself when you're not when you're not talking. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. No. I was saying it's slightly less creepy news. I think it's Iceland who have, a dating app, right, where if you wanna just, before you, go to the next step of your date, you can figure out if you're related. Wow. We live in a world where that's necessary. Chick. Yeah. Okay. Alright. So moving on, another another environmental piece. So, the World Meteorological Organization, WMO, has just released its all encompassing report, state of global climate 2023, which obviously was a big year. And it basically brings together all of the scientific knowledge that's you can get in the world. So BBC Science Focus Magazine, decided to simplify it and gave us 4, top highlights. So number 1, Switzerland lost 10% of its glaciers over just the last 2 years. So if you don't know, glaciers are such a critical part of any ecosystem. The melts feed the rivers, deliver nutrients across the land, and, of course, provide drinking water for people at the bottom and around the world. So when you think about this one, it's not that they're gonna lose 10% every 2 years moving forward. If if the world keeps getting warmer, we could be seeing a really rapid loss of of, ice loss. And, of course, when you lose the ice, you lose the albedo, which is basically the the sun is reflected back out out into space from the ice. And the less ice we have, the more sun that gets absorbed. And that's another thing that they think is going on. So the earth energy imbalance is about the amount of sun going in versus being reflected back out, and so that's out of balance. So, that's a that's a really big thing, for for Europe and Switzerland. Number 2, on any given day in 2023, a 3rd of the oceans experienced a heat wave. Around 90% of the energy that has been accumulated in the Earth's system since 1971 is stored in the ocean. And, you know, in 2023, it reached the highest levels since observations began, and it could take, centuries or possibly a millennia to reverse. Number 3, the cost of climate inaction could be staggering. So, basically, they are saying if we want to stop a 1.5 degree Celsius rise, which I thought was interesting that they're even still referencing that, Finance investments need to grow more by more than 6 times. So reaching almost 9,000,000,000,000 by 2030 and a further 10,000,000,000,000 throughout to 2050. But if we don't do it, the cost of doing nothing will be way higher. So inaction throughout 2025 to 2,100 will cost $1,266,000,000,000,000. And 4th, Antarctic winter sea ice was 1,000,000, kilometers squared below the previous record. So one of the scientists, the climate systems scientists I listen to is Paul Betweiss, and he talks a lot about this. And he believes that we're going through a blue ocean event in Antarctica. It's expected in the Antarctic when all the ice goes, but we've lost so much ice around Antarctica, which means the oceans are absorbing more heat, which could be contributing to the sea level rise. So, a big report. They put another red alert on it. We've had lots of, red alerts, but, you know, I don't know. Will we listen? So there's a video in the weekend reads, which is, the head of the WMO and the head of the World Meteorological Organization, WMA, and the sorry, World Health Organization. And they're talking about these findings, so I recommend having a watch. It's only about, like, 20, 30 minute watch, so it's a good one. Yeah. I'd look at that. I really liked how she said that the glaciers were the world's storage tanks. You know, the water tanks that we from where we get our water from. And if they're gone, we're in trouble. Big trouble. In big trouble. And so then migration becomes a huge challenge for countries. But what I like about what, that cost of climate inaction, it's the first time I've seen the cost of doing nothing. And in in in my, you know, promotion pay wise programs and stuff like that, I always talk about this thing called the one page business case, which is presenting 4 scenarios and scenario 0 is the cost of doing nothing. And then there's scenario 1, 2, and 3. And we always choose scenario 2 as being the, you know, Goldilocks, the just right scenario. But it needs the cost of doing nothing because otherwise the default is no. And when you're talking to people who whose main language is p and l or costs and expense or whatever, there's they're gonna they're gonna look at 11,266,000,000,000,000 versus 19,000,000,000,000,000 as possibly the motivating kick in the butt that they might need to actually do something. And if that could be localized from from global to, national, that would be really interesting. The challenge is that she said also that the focus area needs to be Africa. There was a huge possibility of investment in Africa of renewables because their renewable footprint is extremely low. And I I'm struggling right now to see why these countries would do that unless energy can be exported in a significant way. I don't think it I mean, I thought I thought it was great how she mentioned Africa, because, yeah, if you could put solar and wind right across Africa, it's fun. It could make a phenomenal dis differences, the amount of pollution that's created. A lot of the oil and gas companies in Africa are being purchased by com by by by conglomerate conglomerates in Africa, which operate with much less sort of environmental concern. You know, there's there's so many aspects to it. But what we really I think we really need to be doing is definitely in Africa, but we also need to be doing it in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Yep. China's already got itself, you know, moving in that direction. Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia. We need to be looking right across the global south of the countries who are still using far too much coal. Massive population. Yeah. With massive populations, but also, you know, outdoor workers, people living on, you know, less than $10 a day, those sort of thing those sort of figures. And we need to be putting the energy in place so they can stay cool, so they, you know, they they they just have different options. And there's there's environmental benefits. You know, they're showing more and more if you put solar farms out. There's there's an environmental change that can happen underneath it with, with insects and birds because they've got this protection. You know? So there's so many. But we the the the wealthy countries don't wanna invest in in the poorer countries. But then they're then poor countries are just the way to go in and take stuff without, like you said, without without the compliance. Yeah. But then but then they're gonna have to accept the migration, which they're not gonna like, and that's gonna create, you know, more destabilization. So we've gotta do everything we can to keep people where they are and keep them safe where they are so that we can keep the world sort of relatively peaceful. And when we just we we we don't seem to have the courage at the sort of the global sort of political level, business level to to talk about that. I don't know if you saw, I have we got it as a as a topic? The Saudi Aramco CEO? I think we have. Yeah. We've alright. Yeah. Let's let's talk about that because I oh, sorry. Joe, you were gonna say something. I I I was gonna talk about some of the, perhaps, silver lining of this the the climate problem. Right? Can you talk about the the cost of doing nothing? There's a lot of unreported doing something that's going on, in the world right now as in, like, you know, I've been I've been talking to start ups, you know, different people, and the incidence of start ups who are doing things about the environment is actually quite high. And I think these numbers actually aren't getting into the into the the the the the the p and l, if you like, of this particular equation. So I think I think there there there is actually quite a lot of work and attention going on into that particular area. It's just not showing up in the reports yet. And, you know, and it's it's funny. Some of these some of these companies actually don't want to report their progress because they don't want to hamper other effort efforts, in the area as well. I think one Swedish company had very successfully, proven that they were able to actually, trap carbon from the atmosphere. And and they and they actually tried to keep it on the down low because they thought that by letting the world know that they had managed to do this, it was actually gonna stop people from actually doing anything about the problem. So this is the thing that they they they they I I think silver lining, there are a lot of people working on the problem. We just don't know about them. And, I I'm hoping some sort of revolution along the lines of what you hear with chat GPT and AI and what have you, may come along in this particular field as well, and it may come on more suddenly, in a stronger way than you you you might imagine. It'd be very interesting interesting to see as well if if if China shows up as the knight in shining armor because, you know, all the countries you talked about, they they they kind of corresponding to the belt and rail, plan that China has, and China's doing it for themselves, why not do it for for for everybody else as well? And what a I mean, look, if you if you want a hero story, China saves the world, is it not a bad headline? It would be, that would be fantastic. Yeah. But maybe the the I guess what we're talking about before then is, you know, we need more renewables, and we need to phase out oil. And in CNBC, the title is Saudi Aramco CEO says energy transition is failing. The world should abandon the fantasy of phasing out oil. I guess the question is perhaps if they tried to phase out oil, that would be a reasonable claim. But as expected, this is creating a big storm. To summarize, the Saudi Aramco CEO Amin Nasser said Monday that the energy transition is failing, and policymakers should abandon the fantasy of phasing out oil and gas as demand for fossil fuels is expected to grow in the coming years. He said, in the real world, the current transition strategy is visibly is visibly failing on most fronts as it collides with 5 hard realities. A transition strategy reset is urgently needed, and my proposal is this. We should abandon the fantasy of phasing out oil and gas and instead invest in them adequately reflecting realistic demand assumptions. That sounds to me like shift the spend from putting it in that to back on oil and gas, and he happens to be the CEO of an oil and gas company. Anyway, let's just move on. NASA said alternative energy sources have been unable to displace hydrocarbons at scale despite the world investing more than 9.5 trillion over the past 2 decades. Wind and solar currently supply less than 4% of the world's energy, while total electric vehicle penetration is less than 3%, he said. Meanwhile, the share of hydrocarbons in the global energy mix has barely fallen in the 21st century from 83 to 80%. Global demand has increased by a 100,000,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day during the same period and will reach an all time high this year, the CEO said. Gas has grown 70% since the start of the century. The transition from coal to gas is responsible for 2 thirds of the reductions in carbon emissions in the US. This is hardly the future picture some people have been painting, NASA said. Even they are starting to acknowledge the importance of oil and gas security. Developing nations in the global south, meanwhile, will drive oil and gas demand as prosperity rises in those nations, which represent more than 85% of the world's population, the CEO said. These nations receive less than 5% of the investment targeting renewable energy he mentioned. That's, from the the ampproject.org, Saudi Aramco CEO says energy transition failing, the report. You're muted. You're muted, Andrea. As someone who's paying attention to what's going on. Right? And I see these statements and the way the media presents them, and I see the way people respond to them. And the the the truth of the matter is if we shut off the taps tomorrow, everything would collapse because our entire global economy is based on fossil fuels. So in some ways, what he's saying is correct. We're not going to stop using fossil fuels. We we are. Not in not in any sort of short term future. We're not. So but but we but we do need to massively scale down our use of fossil fuels, and there is a responsibility on us to do that as well. So one of the things I've been talking about, you know, is we've got 3,800,000,000 middle class people buying clothes, buying homes, buying cars, buying buying everything. Right? So there's a scale of the human population, and we're all we've all moved towards that American dream of what it means to be a middle class person, and it's costing us the earth. So we need to scale it all down, but we also need to scale down fossil fuel in infrastructure. But there's another issue with the fossil fuel in infrastructure. A lot of the global players, they can't improve facilities because there's no money to go into those investments because because we're supposed to be reducing fossil fuel assets. Right? So we've actually got inefficient sort of oil fields that need investing in, which would make them actually environmentally better. So it's a bit of a mixed bag, this whole conversation, I think. I mean, my question is, if I gave a $1,000,000,000 to the oil and gas industry to make their drilling site their their current equipment better, My skepticism is that they wouldn't spend it on making it better. That's better than drilling more stuff. But yeah, it's, it's a fair call. It's a balanced, actually. It's a, it's a very balanced perspective that you just shared, Andrea. Well, you know, you you the the the problem that I I I think we we face right now is there is too much effort and time and money being spent on theater. You know? I I I think if you can figure out a way to get over ourselves and say, like, okay. You recognize that this is bad. It's part of the process. And I think if we can get over ourselves, then we can be more efficient. Right now, the inefficiencies I mean, not all the inefficiencies, but there's some inefficiencies that are coming about because we're just acknowledge we're we're just doing the theater of it. Right? It's it's, it's it's trying to defend this, to defend that, having departments to do that. So, you know, greenwashing didn't just come out because people are just evil. It's because, well, the the the need is out there. Now there's a way that we had to meet this particular thing, and we happen to be in this particular industry. And it's just terribly inconvenient. Right? So I've I've I've been in those meetings where behind closed doors, they've been talking about the challenge as in, like, they recognize their role, they recognize what's needed, they recognize all that. But at the same time, they're the least popular people in the room. They're the uncomfortable, you know, uncle, who's doing something, you know, terrible. I mean, you know, you know, you know, the the the the family members is if people are in the sewage business, it doesn't seem like a very good thing, but it's very important as well. Right? So it's still the the oil business is the business of energy, and humans need energy unless we figure another way of of of of converting and storing it rapidly. The source of energy is still going to be hydrocarbons. So the stored energy from the past, all the, you know, the the the the the death over a 1000000 years of other things that's now it's all been stored in these things and we've discovered a way to release it. So that's the that that's on us. Right? So, you know, unless unless we get really comfortable with nuclear, then we're gonna go, okay. Well, let's let's let's keep going with this. We could, on the flip side, get really good with nuclear. It'd be fun to see what happens, you know, with the slight risk of a nuclear meltdown. Well, how we would do if we could just completely eradicate it. Because you if you if you think about, energy needs, they can be replaced very successfully by the nuclear solution. We just don't have the gumption to do it, I don't think. I think Bill Gates is making some progress there with his nuclear solution, which was featured in one of the Netflix documentary a few years ago. There seems to be more rumblings about that. I always think for the for the future humans that survive the apocalypse, they're gonna be, thinking, we made it through. And then, they, then they're gonna have to deal with the nuclear meltdown going on in their, in, in their community because, they won't have the scientists left to deal with it. I mean but the but the most important thing is, so Nate Hagans uses term energy blind. We're all energy blind. We don't we don't see how much energy we do. Like, if you look at your own life and how much energy you use, and it's it's not just driving a car and putting petrol in it. It's the food that you you eat and where it comes from and how it's grown and how much water it uses and if there's any deforestation associated with it. The closure wear, where they come from. Are they fast fashion? Are they made of plastics? What we clean our bodies with, what we clean our homes with, you know, we're, we're, we're completely blind and we're not thinking of the scale of, of all of these different things. So I think if we're gonna solve it, it needs to be, we need to all come together and solve it together. And I agree we gotta just stop oil. Right. But, we've built a society on the back of it, and we haven't done anything to stop that. So to stop it, it can't be sudden. It has to be gradual, but we all need to understand what we need to let go or we won't achieve it. So, yeah. Speaking of letting go, from old cell phones to broken refrigerators and discarded ecigarettes, global electronic waste has reached record highs and is growing 5 times faster than rates of recycling, bringing home bringing rather a host of health, environmental, and climate problems. And the numbers are staggering. In 2022, the world generated 62 1,000,000 metric tons of electronic waste, also known as e waste. I don't know how many buses full of giraffes that is in American terms, but, it's 62,000,000 metric tons of electronic waste. Putting that in perspective. Oh, here is the perspective. This waste could fill more than 1,500,040 metric ton trucks if placed bumper to bumper on an asteroid somewhere in space, and it could fill form a a line long enough to wrap around the equator. The, e waste is the umbrella term for any discarded product that has a plug or a battery and often contains toxic and dangerous substances such as mercury and lead. As the world becomes ever more reliant on electronics and increasing amounts are being sold in developing countries for the first time, this hazardous waste stream is booming. Global e waste in 2022 was up, 82% compared to, 2010. According to the report, this is on track to raise to rise a further 32% to reach 82 1,000,000 metric tonnes in 2030. That's a lot. That's a that's a lot. How many devices do you have? I've thrown them all away, so I don't I don't have that many left. No. Yeah. I've got I've got a lot of devices. I mean, just doing this. Yeah. It's got it's got 7 or 8 different devices plugged in, I think. Yeah. So And that that's that's the problem. Right? The the average person, especially in wealthy countries or, or, or people of wealth of any country, you know, 3, 4, 5 devices, it's Playstations and whatever those things are, phones, PCs, tablets, you know, and we've got so many of them, you know, and there's people around the world who had none. But, yeah, the growth numbers are You know, it'd be interesting. It'd be interesting if we had this sort of 5 year more it this is a terrible idea, but I'm just gonna put it out there anyway. A 5 year nothing new gets released in 5 years. There's no upgrade to this for 5 years. But over that 5 years, people are developing cool stuff. So this thing needs to be built to last at least 5 years, maybe 10 years or something like that. And then at that 5 year mark, boom, everything is released. It's like a huge expo, and we go out and we go, oh, cool. Okay. Well, I'm gonna buy it. Wow. This and this great leap of for mankind. And and then, of course, we've got massive recycling over the next 5 years of the stuff that we've got. It's terrible idea, but it's it's No. No. Circularity, right, needs to happen, which would stop a lot of the extraction because we don't need it because we've already got it. We've already pulled this stuff out of the ground, so we need to reuse it. That needs to be cost effective and environmentally safe, because a lot of that's done in really poor countries where the, you know, the children are are getting exposed to all sorts of toxic chemicals. I actually think, for the next 10 years, any company listed on a public stock exchange should not be allowed to pay out any money to investors, and that money should go into a central fund where we we put it into investing in, doing everything we can to save the planet. And at the end of 10 years, if we've still got a planet, they can start getting their shares back, with their, you know, payouts back. But that that's my idea. It's not gonna it as soon as that's announced, everybody's taking their money out of the stock market. Yeah. But that's that's the sort of scale that we need. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, what it what it what it could be, this is gonna sound dumb as well, is that, on a surprise date, there is a massive global recession, or a global stock market meltdown where, you know, a third of the stock market is wiped out. And in fact, that never happens. It's just that that's removed. And then everybody goes back into their how to rebuild it all again. But that chunk that would have been lost in the past talk market meltdowns actually is the investment. But, again, as soon as you start talking about that, people are gonna pull their money out of the the mechanism that's gonna lose all of this cash. So these are all fantasy things that but, you know, it that's that's where you get some sort of mad dictator doing this sort of thing to be able to save the world. Becomes very unpopular, but but at the it manages to do something. I think what Europe is doing is quite interesting because they're they're they're looking at things about repairability. You know, that they have to come down quite hard recently on Apple because Apple's always had these very closed systems, and you had to repair through Apple. It's it's all expensive. So it's kinda discouraging to to to actually try to repair your devices. But Europe has has made it mandatory right now for Apple to make its product serviceable so you can actually have third parties involved. It's the right the right to repair. And I and and I, you know, I think Europe has actually done a number of things which have been very business on friendly, which is environmentally friendly. And, you know, it's it's it's all the hard stuff. So I think, that's gonna be something we can look at. The rise of the repairman is something that's gonna to to, I think, make a difference. It it was one, I think, a long time ago. I can't remember what it was, but, it was just about someone came up oh, yeah. I know what it was. They they had these compatible devices for Apple, and some third party came up with an idea of how to retrofit, a processor on an Apple computer, which is something you can't ever do now. But, you know, back in the day, you know, it was a it was a means for you to have an old Apple computer, but then suddenly renew it because you could change the heart of it and upgrade the CPU. And if that kind of thinking actually were to come on board, we could end up with, you know, a a lot of savings in terms of e waste. I think I think I I like that. I like the idea that actually you put a you you put a rule there in place that you've had when you when you produce a product, it needs to last at least 5 years. I think that would be a really good thing because I think the the, like you know, just batteries, for instance. Like, now I get a car battery. No one expects it to last more than a year and a half. And I remember back in the day, you know, I had batteries that were 5 years old. Yeah. But it's gotta be longer than 5 years. You look at I was looking at the drop in white goods. And today, compared to, you know, 19 seventies, we'd have a TV for 20, 30 years. No crap. But, they, but they lasted before you upgraded. Now you upgraded I mean, we had 1 LG flat screen TV. It, it died just on its 2 year warranty. And for us to get it fixed is just crazy amount of money, and it's just not worth it. But let's move on because we're running out of time. But, so one of the topics that we've talked about a lot is longevity. And, it's something that Joe brings up a lot because he's got a he's got a real interest and he's done a lot of work in it. I'm not saying you're an expert, Joe, but you you've had a really good sort of insight on the front line of what's been going on listening to the scientists. And when I started looking into it, because you got me interested in it, I found it unbelievably satisfying and realized that I have actually done some of these longevity things. I didn't even know that I was doing them. So do you wanna just quickly sorta take us through what's the longevity industry? Help us understand it. What's its mission, and give us a sense of what's going on? Because I've got some ideas about it in from another perspective that oh, but I wanna hear what you say first. Well, there there there there are many schools of thought literally about schools. I mean, as in, like, it's academic. Right? So there is one school which is about extending life so that you don't die. That's the the idea that we can prolong your life by deferring death. But that leads to other problems which is has to do with your healthy life because, you know, the the the the the pharmacy industry, the medical industry, beauty, wellness, all that kind of thing, it's very tempting for them to get on board because, you know, why not prolong life? Because if someone now who's older wants to look better, wants to feel better, and you could provide all these solutions. So there is there is that industry. There is also the other the other side of things where what they're trying to do is now extend health span. So, you know, the idea of being a 70 year old is not about being a 70 year old as you think of it, but you actually are now, if done correctly, you could be a 50 year old in a 70 year old chronologically, 70 year old body, but you'll be 50. And there there is there is research being done on the idea of curing aging. Because if you think about aging, what really aging is about is it's a failure of your systems to keep you young. Because when you're young, when everything is is still working, your cells replace themselves and and the failure rate is very low so that, you know, you look pretty much the same on your 26th year versus your 25th year. But as you get older, more and more systems fail genetically. And then what happens is you you you lose, flexibility, you lose elasticity and all that kind of stuff, and then you see the the the products of aging. So there there is a a significant part of the scientific community that's trying to work on the symptoms of aging to prevent that so that you can lead literally a longer life simply because you aren't dying. What really is happening for most people is that we're in a sense, we are we're we're we're we're sort of dying in certain areas. Some of our systems, as they're being reproduced, they're not being reproduced accurately. And we have certain we have certain cells in the body that actually have a a certain there's a there's an actual limit to the number of times it will, it will it will duplicate, before it begins to say, okay. Well, I've I've got no more for you. So, I I I look at it this way. I'm I'm I'm I'm on the side where people are trying to really cure the usual things. There is there is progress in the area of, eyesight, for instance. They've been able to, in mice, reverse blindness. There are the people who are working on a pill, for for $1 a day, basically, that would eradicate 1 quarter of all the deaths in the world because it would stop heart disease, you know, that that that sort of thing. So it's a it's a complicated thing. Of course, while all that's happening, there are a lot of people who are just opportunists. Right? You're gonna have people who go like, well, people are people are gonna live longer. We can make them feel wary or scared about it and we can exploit that. And marketers are marketers and they can find those gaps in the market, and they can make people feel better about, you know, that as well. So it's it's really a mixed bag. It's it's, it's it's how we are as human beings. It's how industry behaves, and you're entitled to to to to to to feel what you feel about it and take the necessary action. But I think the biggest thing you should try to take away from it is just have a sense of hope that if you can figure out how to live longer, you can also live better. Don't assume that if you're going to live longer, you're going to do less as you grow older. Think about the alternatives. I mean, when when I when I when I think about when someone gets old, you say, oh, you got to sort of relax, step back, do less. And actually the medical science seems to say not not not so much. You actually should get active. One of the biggest determinants of whether you live a long time is how much you move and how fast you move. So if you keep moving, that alone is going to lead you to live a longer life, and the other thing is just socializing. Just have yourself some friends, catch up with people, talk all the time, and that kind of thing really helps. So just very quick thoughts. Sorry about it. It's all disorganized in my head, but that's the, that's the reply I got for you. No. No. It's interesting. So it's it's about sort of the the core of it is a it's about sort of, putting it's it's the basic molecules that form us. It's, it's about, it's about interfering in that. Right? That, that's my very basic understanding of it. But so, okay. So a couple of things. So arguably, we we've already been doing this for a really long time because we've never been as long lived as we are now. But what it's doing is it's creating a crisis because we've got all these aging populations and and not enough replacement. But, you know, the the one thing I keep sort of thinking about is if if people are aging, aging healthier and, more able to keep moving and and do things, that's that's that's probably a good outcome. Right? Rather than just having an aging population that needs to be taken care of by a smaller population than before, which means higher taxes and all that sort of stuff. But at the same time, is that really really where we should be potential catastrophic events where we potentially could lose millions or billions of people, like a a massive heat extreme event, which we're starting to to see the beginnings of now. Is is is it somewhere where we should be even thinking about investing? Like, that's that's I suppose that's the thing that I keep coming back to. So if we look at the world the way we know it today, then the answer definitely is not. It doesn't seem to be something that's worthwhile. But you need to rethink what it would mean to be in a world where your 80 year old friend looks like a 40 year old, and they have the energy of a 40 year old. They have the wisdom of an 80 year old person with the mental health of a 30 to 40 year old person as well. So they're they're they're not hampered in any way. You know, the the idea that you you would you would have someone like Joe Biden, for instance, in in a world where all this has has has worked out, looking younger than any one of us right now on the screen. And if you think about having to replace the population and stuff like that, then the the it really completely changes that that that idea. People who want to replace themselves would be people who just have had enough and and and and want to retire, and they retire whichever way they want to. But those people who wanna be involved and and and and you just imagine a world where it's a human right to be young. You know, your your your your the the because of the shared science, because of the way we we we we we look after ourselves as a society. Imagine if everybody had this. If if, for instance, like, for the the the the pill, you know, you know, to eradicate heart disease was not something you had to buy yourself. But like the COVID, you know, vaccination, government said, yeah. Sure. We'll do this for everybody who lives in our world. We'll we'll invest $365 per person so that 1 quarter of them will not die from heart disease. And if if you think about the world of the the the the generational change that can happen, it it it sounds like science fiction, but you really think about this, right, where goes all the way into their seventies. If if you if you think about it right now, because you have that you have that very insulting idea of you got a a 40 year old woman getting pregnant and you get people as a geriatric pregnancy. Right? You know, it it it's a it's a fundamental change to the way we think about it. Because right now, we take we we we're looking at it from we're looking at it from our perspective right now. Do I want to live, do I wanna live for a very long time? We're thinking in terms of a 75 year old, 85 year old as we know it. I wouldn't mind living for a long time as somebody in my 35 year old body, and that's the kind of thing that the crazy scientists are really trying to work on. They're trying they're trying very much to to to to to solve that problem. How do you teach your body to replace itself with young cells? If you think about our body, our our our body, every single molecule actually in the body gets replaced. I think over a year or less than a year, I think every single molecule has actually changed. Every atom has changed. It's it's it's left. It's come and gone. Right? What if we could change the way that information is retained? What if we could figure a way, for instance, how we could manage our energy so that it can can can do a better program? And could we even try and reprogram the whole thing and start doing even more radical things? I mean, it's it's it's a it's a it's, like I said, it's science fiction. It sounds like it. But, you know, all science today was science fiction, maybe 10 years, 20 years ago. Yeah. I'm gonna ask for Tim's perspective, especially because I think it would be really important with what you're doing at the moment. But, do you think, Joe, that the people who are are behind this are motivated by the right reasons or is the is is greed is greed the main reason? Because if if greed's the main reason, they're not necessarily gonna do the right things, and it's not gonna be democratized where everyone has access to the benefits. It's just gonna be the few, like what is currently available today because it's so expensive to do so many of these things. Do you think the the right motivations are behind it? I I think that I think the range, it's it's a range of motivations. There are some people who are legitimately, you know, driven by the idea of saving humanity, and there's some who are legitimately driven by the idea of they wanting to live forever. There's some people who are, you know, I mean, the the there's some famous characters who just want to have that the the the ability to live the life style that they always enjoy and they just want to be young forever and have multiple partners. And it's really quite quite a mix of characters, right? Good can come out of every single every everything. I mean, you can be motivated by money and do a good thing. It's not mutually exclusive. So I I I think, you know, we we will reap what we expect to get from something because we can look at it and select, well, this is not a great thing, and we will be disappointed with that. But I think if you look for if you look for the benefit of it like, for instance, you if you if you do the math, someone someone does the math and go, like, you know, like there there is actually right now in in in in medical science, there is single treatment chemotherapy. That means, because of the customization of the molecules to your particular DNA, you can have one dose of chemotherapy and be done with cancer. Right? That so so in in other words, it's it's it's a cure. Right? It's and it's possible now already. And the cost of it is in the 100 of 1,000 of dollars right now. And some people go, like, how how could you charge for this? But from a bigger medical perspective, it actually is cheaper than long term medical care of a chronic situation. So some of it has to do with the economics of it. Can you would this cure ever have come if there wasn't a financial incentive? And the answer simply would be no. It would be impossible to have done all the research you need to do and to run the kind of development because you you need a huge facility to create this particular cure, but which can cure a person with, you know, potentially in in just one dose. It's it's it's it's it we we can't always go to the motivation that say because we don't agree with the motivations, we don't like the result of it. I think what we should look at look at is what is it that could be the benefit here and what price are we prepared to pay for it? It's it's a bit like the trolley problem. I was so much just talking about this today. Like, what what if you step into a into a hospital and you realize that your body could save 5 people if you donated all your organs? You know, what would you do? That kinda that kinda problem. You know what I mean? Background. The yeah. Okay. I mean, I I but I I get your point, Joe. I think there is even a noble motivation of wanting to save 1 person and doing the research to get to save that person or because you couldn't save that person, wanting to make sure that nobody goes through that pain again would be a interesting one. I I you know, as the discussion was going on, a few different thoughts were bouncing through my head. One of them was if we've got the capacity to do these sorts of incredible things, How can we how can anybody be going hungry in the world was one thing. So then and then how are we and then I was like, how do we direct the the focus of our medical research for the betterment of humanity? Could it be to to save to to be able to diagnose and save a child from some of these issues and then put it in and help that child, for example. So, so so then but to to then to but to focus it on, you know, a 70 year old going or 50 50 year old going, I just wanna I wanna have another 2 decades of being 30. And maybe that's where the money comes to fund everything else. You know? And maybe the taxation that that affluent person pays can go into doing something else. But it just seems like a a societal commentary of a generation that is so extraordinarily self centered and individualistic and possibly secular, that they've come to the position of what life from now to my end means to me is preserving myself at the possible not even thinking about at the expense of of anything else. But if the focus is being directed on preserving myself for another 20 years and making myself look beautiful versus the focus perhaps being somewhere else. So walking so walking I I so I guess to use your walking into a hospital idea, it's but the challenge with that one is I have to lose my life immediately to save those 5 people. But but if walking into the hospital was I'm walking in the hospital to get a treatment to make myself look beautiful, but instead, I see 5 people. And if I could pay for them, instead of getting the treatment, I could pay for them to live for the same amount of money. Would I do that? And I think that's the more realistic that's the the actual question that that I'm arguing. And and I think the answer is, if I could see the person and feel compassionate about their plight, I would give them the money. But if there were an article in a magazine that's on a shelf that I may not read, I probably wouldn't give them the money. Or if I was so fixated on, you know, running for president or or my own my own self aggrandizement, and my own legacy. Legacy is the one that drives me crazy. That's it it's like it's basically we could just replace all those words with my own ego and and trying to stop something that is inevitable. And, basically, we're just trying to buy some time. My question is, what are you doing with the time that you have now? And are we actually are we playing with a sense of urgency? Do we have a long term perspective? From a Christian perspective, you know, I mean, for me, I'm not really worried about the dying part. I probably wouldn't wanna be dying today. And there was an article that Andrea shared, which I just thought was fantastic. It wasn't anything to do with Christianity. It was more to do with just this guy, thinking that he'd he'd lived a really solid life and he'd been diagnosed and he was gonna die, and he was 46 years old. And and how grateful he was for the quality and the impact and the experience that he had on his time here, where there's a lot of people that are just pampering themselves, and I just feel squandering an opportunity. And and so I just I feel like it's a it's a social commentary that would be an interesting discussion for people to think about themselves as to how am I living life? What is there beyond life? From my perspective, that's something I'm I'm investing in 2 things right now from a from a theological studies perspective. 1 is a study of understanding what is the theological framework, and and and that encompasses a life beyond this life, through a relationship with a with a, with God. And and so I'm investing in that. And I know that for some people, that's gonna just wind them up the wrong way, and and they're gonna get all all crazy. But then there's another part to it, and that is the world as we've just discussed over this entire show and this entire series. The world is is getting in more and more trouble, and we're asking for people to do something. And we're asking for them to to make a sacrifice to a degree. And that sacrifice may be on the cream that they put on their face to make themselves look 30, or it may be on the sacrifice of some comfort that they have in a short term to be able to make a real difference for people everywhere for future. And but that's not why I'm studying theology. I'm I'm studying theology more from a practitioner in in one sense, as a practitioner, apart from the the belief system and helping people with their beliefs, is as a practitioner of hope and being able to give people who who are really facing the world crumbling to be able to turn to someone who is willing to walk with them in the mess rather than sell them a, snake oil that will buy them rather than being somebody else that is selling snake oil to buy somebody another 20 years of of squander. It's like it's to be the counselor to help somebody journey through pain and suffering. And I don't I don't really you know, I would love to just have the comfort and everything else, but what the world is gonna need is dealing with loss and grief. And we need it already, but we're gonna need it even more. And, and it's gonna be and and to deal with that the loss, I think for most people is gonna be their way of life rather than the people that they lose. I think the grieving is gonna be, it used to be so good. Why couldn't we have done something? Why didn't something happen? Why didn't they pay attention? And it's to to get through that. And the whole gospel message is, you know, the struggle that people have is, well, if God's so good, why don't he click his fingers and make everything better? And the the short answer to that is there is a better, but and this was good. In fact, Genesis is simply, he made the place. It was great. He made humans. They were great, and we screwed everything up, which is what we've been talking about over the last for the last x number of series of the show. And how do we make things better? And the and the and the weird thing is we kind of can't, but there is a possibility of making it better, but human nature needs to change. And where is the investment in changing human nature? For me, it's in the church. I mean, or it's in it's in, a I mean, for me, it's in the church, but for others, it could be in a spiritual journey or pathway, that is changing people from being self centered individualists to being compassionate communityists. Not communist, but community centered people. And, and I think that that's where I I I think I'm gonna end up. And I don't have a lot of I don't have a lot of time at my age to be an effective ministry. I can be in ministry for the rest of my life, to be honest. But but, but to be in formal ministry, it's probably gonna be 10 to 15 years. But if in those 10 to 15 years, I could walk people through their pain and maybe influence a few others to do the same, to be compassion walkers and to say that there is a hope that's beyond where we are, then I will do that. Nice. I thought I knew that it was going to be a really interesting perspective, just, you know, bringing what you've been doing in the last few years. Cause one of the things that I kind of noticed listening to Joe. Right? So, it's it's to me, the longevity conversation is like the artificial intelligence conversation. Everyone's so excited about it. And when you're one of the people that are going, I know you guys are really excited about it, but have you seen this? Have you heard this? Don't ignore this. And I see it, you know, some of the chats we're all involved in, you know, people writing books with artificial intelligence, people writing social media with artificial intelligence. And you're like, you're just adding more noise. You're, you're not there. You're not behind your voice. You're not, you're not you're not bringing anything of value to the table. You're just adding more noise. And so and so to and the longevity conversation is the same. The vanity, the I'm gonna, know you can you can go and get, stem cells shot into your face to make your face look it there's a place just down the road where I could go and do it. You know, it's it's here. It's all here. Right? But I I just wanna interrupt the idea about because because I I think I think too much of it is actually put down to the idea of us wanting to be young or the reason of looking young and being young in that way. It it's it's about total change of lifestyle. It's about the social change of history. It's the idea. It's it's it's not so much the 75 year old now who who tries to fight back for his youth again, but it's more like what happens for the next child that's born. And the idea that from here on, this generation will do it differently. So it's it's about, like, you know, the same for the environment. The environment could be different if from here on, this is what we do differently. So the same sort of joke. Doesn't that require a ethical framework that everybody, that it it requires an ethical framework that people buy into. And society has structured an ethical framework or at least a justice system, but not but the ethical framework, I feel, is being flushed down the toilet for the sake of individualism, a misplaced perspective on pluralism. Inclusivity is different, but or or, yeah, I I just I just feel at the I feel we're getting rid of the ethical system for the sake of for the wrong reasons. And Okay. So so think about it this way. What if when you were born, you'd be inoculated against aging? That's all. So if you think about what aging is and what it it leads to, so a lot of all the chronic disease, everything else, it's not about beauty or whatever it is. Right? People who have kidney failure or diabetes or whatever it is, right? It's because of systems that fail as they're growing older. Yeah, there's some people who just have that when they're younger, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that your body, as it gets older, just begins to fail. So this is just that's that's just the idea of it. It's a it's a whole imagination or reimagination. Just the idea of, like, if I could inoculate the world, for instance, from, you know, using using fossil fuel or if I if I could inoculate, the world from hate, for instance, It's not about an ethical framework. It's more about what kind of a different place that would be. You know what I mean? Okay. There's 2 things. 1 is the ethical framework allows for free will. Inoculation may inoculating against hate, for example, doesn't. But the but I get your point on what if we could we do. I mean, we take our kids when they're you know, before they go to school, they're inoculated against rubella. They're inoculated against various other, you know, smallpox and all this sort of stuff. Right? So so the so what we're saying is we inoculate. But if we inoculate against dying from, I mean, you didn't say that, but you inoculate against disease taking out the people. And so that we live I mean, we might end up with a Logan's Run type thing where it's, hey. You've reached the age of 40. It's now time to double that was the no Logan's Run. You've you've reached the age of a 150. It's time for you to walk into the, eradication room. Mhmm. You know, say goodbye to everybody. Hope you had a good time. I yeah. I mean, Thanos would need to turn up every few years, to to help out. It's it's it's it's a it's a confusing one. Because, Joe, like, I I totally get what you're saying, but but the the initial money, the investment, it is gonna come from the beauty egotist sort of side. It is because that's that's where the money the very, very wealthy people. You know, you look at, you know, just what's been going on in the last decades, you know. I remember just yeah. Rockets but also, you know, bombing plants. You know, like all of it. You know? It's just that manipulation of ourselves to to appear and, you know. But, Joe, do you wanna have a final word and then we'll we'll finish up because we're we've gone over time. Yeah. We've gone long on a longevity show. No. I I I just think in terms of, like, like like most things, I I encourage people to have a look at it from a different perspective than where you are currently. I think the idea is that if you are looking at things based on your own whatever is weird to you currently is definitely gonna be weird. So even if it's a new development, right, if I if I suddenly told you today there's a pill that's gonna make you young, you will look at that from your perspective now and go, like, it's it's it's kinda weird. But if you if you if you think of it from a societal change point of view, what if, you know, when you got to 50 years old, you know, instead of thinking like, oh, I don't have much more time at work anyway, so I don't have to worry about what happens here. I don't have to worry about the policy 50 years on, a 100 years on. What if you were accountable for the next 100 years? Right? People would still see you and still talk about you and still realize that, oh, you you did this or whatever it is or when you get to 50 years old at the company and you've got some great ideas because you've still got 40, 50 years left in you, you'd still play. You'd come forward and you do do things. You know? I think that that that there are so many people who think about If the only thing that would get in the way of you doing the thing that you really thought you could was, an unfortunate misstep on the side of the road where Tesla ran you down. Right? I mean, it's it's a different perspective. So I I I and I recognize it's very hard to take yourself out of that and go, like, you know, we must want to live longer because we're vain. No. Maybe we wanna do more things, you know. Maybe we wanna be able to look after the world. Maybe I don't know. And there's definitely people who would exploit this as well. I mean, you know Yeah. There there there are all kinds of other things to worry about. There's there's still about, you know, financials as well. You know? Maybe this is a contract. If you get this treatment, what are you gonna do? We'll we'll decide. We'll have a panel of judges decide. Like I said, it's a fundamental rework of the way we do things. We would have to do different things. We would have to eat differently. We'd have to breathe differently. We'd have to do that. And then we'd also have to look after our money differently as well. And it's a big fundamental change. So anyway, it's like you said, it's it's too many things to talk about in one short show. Interesting. It was good to have a chat about it because it's come up quite a lot. Alright. What's keeping you guys distracted? Tim, apart from your bag. Well, that was a longevity symbolism for the entire thing. But I did notice that it was getting, it was aging poorly. And so I needed to do something. So I bought a cheap cream. What's keeping me distracted apart from a, like, an 800 page theology book, which is, went to China, had a fantastic time there. That was really nice. And, other than that, I think that's it. Yeah. Enough to structure. Your photos from China are amazing, Joe. But so Joe's on board today. I'm I'm currently holding up an entire family from their dinner time. So, I'm in Queensland right now, and, I've been I've been I've been imposing myself on on this family. I've been dealing with not being a trusted, citizen of the world. I'm a Malaysian, so I took, I had trouble getting a visa to come to Australia. But, I managed to get that done, and there's a whole thing, but I I we've taken too much time, so I won't spend that much time talking about that. But, basically, now I'm just in the middle of trying to have a holiday. Yeah. Enjoy yourself. Well, I I've, did I did I mention one day that been on our our last no show, which is a beautiful romance? If you haven't had a chance to watch it, it's it's yep. It'll touch your heart. And the other thing I've been, distracted by is, I'm back into law and order SVU, special victim shooter. I don't know. Chung guilty. I don't know why. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Particularly heinous. My husband laughs every time. But yeah. So that's been keeping me distracted. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It never gets dull. But, anyways, thanks everyone for joining us. More in order, but it's a it's a bit different. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Great chat today. Joe, have a fantastic holiday. Thanks for calling in. Tim, really good to see you. I think you're gonna be back for the next one as well. Okay. I don't know. I can't remember what I put down in the list. Yeah. But, yeah, I just really appreciate it. Always good to have a chat and just sort of catch up on everything that's going on. And thanks everyone for listening. Great great number of followers, but not not not interaction, but really appreciate you being here. So see you in a couple of weeks. Bye. See you around. Okay. Bye bye.