The Know Show – theme: trust and the cycle of distrust

Welcome to The Know Show. This week our theme is trust and the cycle of distrust, following the release of Edelman’s Trust Barometer, now in its 22nd year. Trust is a cornerstone issue of our time, and working out how we can regain trust across our societies is paramount if we have any chance of solving the greatest challenges the world faces. 

The two organisations with the least trust are governments and the media. We’ll dig into the report, discuss the key findings, possible solutions, and we’re thrilled to welcome Phillipa Edwards, (yes, Andrea’s sister) also an avid news reader and someone who cares deeply about facing up to the challenges in our societies, so we can solve them!

The Know Show is a Livestream held every Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade (Tim is away this week) and Joe Augustin review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters to all of us. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the climate crisis, Covid 19, topical moments in the world, global politics, business, social issues and passion/humor/history. Join us. 

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To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

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Transcript

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Welcome to the no show. My name is Andrea Edwards. And my name is Joe Augustine. And at this particular point, we get to say anything we want about the third host who is absent, Tim weighed in Wade is unavailable, he is currently on the high seas, we hope not trying to sell a new course to a pirate and stop by on the on that on that particular journey of is. Yeah, this is this is a show that is in celebration of knowledge. I was gonna say it's about being in the know and it's about being knowledgeable about opinions that hopefully matter and could make a difference. And normally, this is where I am going to do the introduction to our guests. Now. The thing is today's guest I feel like no matter what I do, I could probably not do as well as good as an introduction as as my co host could because well she's family. And I think the best thing about this is if I get it wrong, she'll she'll still get upset with with Andrea anyway. So I just thought leave it just Andrea to introduce our our guest today. Oh, yeah, that's that's just being lazy Joe All right, here she is Philip redwoods. And Joe, you are the thorn in the middle of the road, you had a we had a few words exchanged before we went on live, I think I'm perfectly positioned to separate the two of you just in case things break out. I've been wanting to Philip around for a long time, because she also pays attention to the news. And she probably is a lot more on the pulse of what goes on in Australia just because she's living there. Right. Whereas I would sort of be looking around everywhere. But I think you know, has a really value valuable perspective on on the world and she should be on the no show. So this will not be the first if she behaves herself, of course. But yeah, so Philip filbur is co founder of skunkworks productions. I'm going to get you to talk about what that is. But she's also a musician, a conductor, although you're not playing anymore because you've got a titanium screws that right. I could have taught him screw I didn't realize you couldn't play anymore. Well, I don't know if I can't play. That's the thing is because I'm so worried about it breaking. And when I when I played a few times, it's gone a bit wonky, and it's gone. And yeah. And so I presume it's a piano we're talking about. It's a wind instrument, right? Yeah. Bras Yeah, yeah. I've got a degree in trumpet from the Victorian College of the Arts. Yes. So yeah, so what else? What else? A teacher, a radio DJ, but a very job DJ you to do you. Welcome Philippa. But yeah, give us give us a bit of a rundown of what you do and what's important to you. Ah, okay, so what I do I do? I do. I do a lot of stuff, mostly to keep myself occupied so that I don't annoy the people around me. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't, I'd say. So. As you know, Melbourne has been a bit of a disaster for the last two years, so not much conducting is going on. I'm the musical director of glenferrie bras, and also the High Street Youth band, which is Australia's oldest youth band. They're a great bunch of kids. And I do a radio show called Arts weekly on three MBS every second week. And that's just like, interviewing people in the arts in Melbourne. Of course, that wasn't running last year, very much at all. And skunkworks community and skunkworks productions, it's kind of a company split into two one does professional shows like we have a Judy Garland Show. And the other half does community engagement, kids in music and things like that? Yeah. And that's what I do. You just You just said Judy Garland Show and we're not gonna go deeper into that. What is the Judy Garland Show? Well, John, little Does everyone know. But Judy Garland did a tour to Australia in 1964. So the show's called Judy, Australian and 64. So we put together a show called the silent Anzac. And we took that to Europe in 2018, because that was 100 years for the end of the First World War. And then why, just before we toured, Leon Keegan, who has a contract with the Australian opera came up to me after we played the song and Isaac, I said, I want you to do me show Judy college. I went okay, and then left my head. And then on the bus trip. Bill was Bill Farr, who wrote it was sitting behind me, and I was talking to Jim bad and he popped his head through the seats and goes, I think I might be able to help you with that. And then before, you know, we had a show, and we've had we've performed it a couple of times, but COVID just destroyed it. But anyway, this year, we're gonna so yeah, it's the story of Judy. She came to Australia in 1964. She played Sydney. It was amazing. And she came to Melbourne on the train, and it was a disaster. And so Nina Farrow who's one of Australia's greatest voices, she's actually playing the role of Judy, and we had Andrew Broadbent. And he's an actor. We have to get a new guy because he's just got the role in it Mary Poppins. So yeah, that's one of the shows. So as you can say, Joe, she's really boring like me. You know, I was thinking this, this show could potentially mean a study and what happens in a household in terms of sibling rivalry, or influence? Alright, I'm actually very curious about the parental influence as well. I'm trying to figure out you know, where, where this comes from, whether we attributed as as, as blame or credit. I always see the need for busyness as a one of my mom's genetic inheritances. And it's, you know, while she will apply her, her intelligence in different ways, it she's still like, you know, she takes on information in a really, really fast way. And Filipino at the same rate, we sort of, we can go into a situation and pick up a lot of information that most people can't even see. And that could be like a an exhibition, or people. And I think it's just Yes, definitely, I'd say it from you feel but I see it more from when you're a music kid, you end up with lots of parents. Yeah, so you everyone that we just had so many parents, and we had Mrs. piney down the road, and Mrs. Hackney in Aubrey, and you had Megan, Dan's mom and dad. So we had all these different people and different influences. And I think that kind of helps you not grow up to into too much of a silo. Of course, we can put ourselves in silos, but I don't think we came. We come from a very lower middle class, Catholic upbringing, but we rebelled against it quite nicely. Thank you very much. But yeah, I think having lots of parents kind of I think formed. Yes, sure. Yeah. Yeah. So they Yeah. You're I enjoy. I'll just keep observing, and, and maybe asking curious questions along the way. Along with me, the format of the show is where we talk about the news. And then we comment about the news and some of our reactions, observations, and some some of the blind spots as well, that we may recognize. I do some work with, you know, with the with the people in academia, for COVID-19. So this this law stuff that I've been doing recently, which may, or may help a little bit in our discussion about COVID. But the rest of it, I'm not so hilly, I haven't got my eyes only open for so this is where Andrea does the heavy lifting for the show. And she sends out all these notes ahead of time that we're supposed to read. And then we guilty litella, just about five minutes before that we've only got through half of it. So let's let's get to some new, shall we, as long as you read the headlines, that's all I care. What so one of the first things I think it's important to honor is that it's Holocaust Remembrance Day today. And, you know, never forgetting what humanity is capable of. But at the same time, in the recent week, we've had this tendency, scandal, I suppose there's a book called mouse. Survivors survivor's Tale, which is a cartoon, sort of based book on on the Holocaust. And that's really a novel. Yeah, apparently, because 13 and 14 year olds come through with nudity or swearing, even though it's naked mice and like, so yes, I think my I think cats and then naked mouse in a small frame. Yeah, I I've got a 13 and 14 year old or 13 and 15 year old in the house, I think they can go with nudity and swearing off. I've kind of discovered, you know, we are but of course we got to protect our kids, right. Anyway, important never to forget. Word or we talked about word or last week as a new rage. Taking over social media in Joe's been an early adopter and got stuck in. So just a bit of a question for you. Is there any chance you can participate without sharing the results on social media? Just asking to reframe completely is yes. Oh, good. But this this is just this is just ended up just just flagging to everyone else that you're sort of in the team, but it's not. It's not You're not? I don't know. I hope it's not too much of a show off thing to do, but it's just kind of fun. It just sometimes you go to Facebook and all you say his word or I'd rather say friends of my pitches, pitches, friends, kids or something, you know, but then I'm just being I'm just being facetious. But anyway, let's get into the news that really matters. Okay, so we found the other variant that is available now called noodle. Oh, okay. Yes. Only weird words. Only mute five. Let's say that one. Yeah, I should be good at it. All right. So we started the week hearing that hundreds were displaced after floods heat, Madagascar's capital and with we're ending the week knowing that dozens have been killed in Malawi, Madagascar and Mozambique, due to a storm called Ana 10s of 1000s are impacted possibly hundreds of 1000s I don't know yet. It's still early days. And I'm really sharing this story because last week we were talking about was one of the care agencies, we're talking about the 10 countries with the least attention from the media. So I want to make sure these countries are front and center. But the UN are on the ground in these countries saying vulnerability is very, very high. The challenges Titanic, the challenge is extreme. So this is I've got somebody knocking. So Steve, if you're listening, could you tell the person who's hammering to stop hammering? Yeah, it's, um, it's extremely these are the people on the frontline of the climate crisis. And they're not getting the funding and the support from the international community. Of course, the UN and other countries are going in now to help. But that's a story that's going to be evolving over the next couple of days. And it's, they're going to keep getting better. That's that's the problem. Did you do want to mention anything there before I move on to the Ukraine? Oh, Chong is the same as well. Tonga? Yeah. But this is getting there. Right? Well, it took a long time, Australia sent me $1 million and COVID to Tonga. So yeah, no, they said, plane arrived from Brisbane, and it's in the community. And it's like, Oh, my God. Yeah. So it that's it is getting there. But slowly. Yeah. No, I that was always one of the the threats of putting aid on the ground in Tonga, you know, bringing COVID in. It's a shame. So we didn't discuss Ukraine last week. And my friend Vicki, hello, Vicki, who checks in. She was asking me about it. And this is a part of the news that I'm constantly keeping my eyes on. But I kind of keep it off to the side rather than focusing straight straight at it, because it's a very, very frustrating story. And as we've discussed before, it's a well, it's a war we don't The world doesn't need, we can't afford this war. We can't afford any wars. But we did discuss last week that there's 3.4 million people in the Ukraine who, who are in need of humanitarian aid, because of the ongoing crisis. So we do need a solution. But two articles that I recommend everyone checks out on my weekend reads tomorrow. The first is, how are UK? How are Russia, UK? Re Ukraine conflict might hit global markets. So it talks about the wide financial ramifications. Joe, did you want to talk about that? Well, I must say, what I've always known about Ukraine and Russia in terms of bathmat rivalry. I've never known about the impact of it. And to be to be very honest, be the article you sent was an eye opener, I had not realized how much of a lynchpin, you know, Russia is in that part of the world and how much the Ukraine plays a part in that as well. So I was I was actually quite surprised by my by that, and it does, it really does come at a terrible time. Because right now, in terms of things that could layer on top of each other, global markets are kind of in a bad state right now already would not be additional need for the bad. The bad news. I mean, Ukraine is playing a role in this in the market as we speak. But it's just it's just crazy to have things like 50,000 troops of mass at the border, and we're not planning an invasion, which is here. And that kind of brings brinksmanship and enter the know that it has that kind of impact. I didn't I didn't realize how much of an impact until I saw things about like the gas and how much of the world's food supply actually is coming from that part of the world. And yeah, the weight. Yes, staggering. And the other thing with that is 90 tons of lethal weapons sent from the US. I mean, don't you think if if the EU, if Ukraine could just get into NATO? Would that solve a lot of the problems here? For Russia, I want that right. No. So is that a solution or a step forward or a step backwards? I think the problem that we have now is is is in terms of the agreements that are in place, even if you are part of NATO. I don't know whether that says that much about you anymore as like it says NATO membership with NATO sort of anything to do to sort of show me bare your teeth with you know, it's like a it's like a membership card. Now everyone's got you know, you know, it's something else I've been listening to. Sorry, from hijacking. I love Rachel Maddow on MSNBC, and I often listen to her when I go for a walk. And she was she's been talking this week about the Russians have allegedly in the Norwegian Sea cut one of the cables and underneath that picks up submarine movement. And then next week, the Russians are going into international waters but near Island, and they've been last year they were seeing zigzagging looking because underneath is their cables, their internet cables and all the rest of it. I'm going to take it. And then. And then next week they're doing war war games exactly in that point, and the Irish fishermen have gone. No, you're not. That's what we fish. So the Irish fishermen have gone to the consulate and had a meeting with these guys to say, you're not doing that. That's where we work. And they aren't just trying to say, No, this is what we're doing. So yeah, and that's another thing they could cut off. They if they get the submarines in there, they could cut off the Yeah, have a look at it. Something really interesting. Wow, they're just being cheeky buckets. Yeah. Pretty much Iran as well. That'd be Irish. They're like, Oh, no, you're not getting anywhere we have this fishing, and like, I think the season starts the muscle season or there's some there's some season starts on Tuesday. And they're gone that you can take your submarines and take them somewhere else. Good on, anyone seemed to be standing up to the Russians is a bunch of blokes in boats had bad hats. Yeah. But then, you know, but then, you know, you always I mean, I always look at Russian years. Charge always try and look at it with a different lens. Because sometimes if you get an English version of news from Russia, and the way they tell the story, it's very different to the Western media's version of the story. Yeah. And I think we too often except the version from the region that we come from, and we've got to be so careful of that. But you know, like Putin, you know, I mean, he said, Yeah, but the other thing that was obviously that happened, that was big news this week, is the Nord Stream two pipeline. Yeah. Wouldn't be on the chopping block. Obviously, if Russia invades Ukraine, so will that make an impact? So we're just, we just have to wait and say we none of us know where this one's going. Is this is this just throwing a massive dead cat because the UK government's just falling apart? The Australian not the street, not that we gave in, and the Americans are? Even inflation is it's just a way of the brinkmanship to get everyone's attention of the homegrown problems happening. Right. Yeah. I mean, because the homegrown problems later, we'll look at the the Trust Barometer from Edelman and Russia's sitting way down at the bottom, you know, and has been for a number of years. So it's not like, you know, there's regular protests, there's regular issues in Russia. I don't know it's, we need to get we need to get somebody from Russia on to get the Russian view, because I think that's lacking for most of us in this is Rachel Maddow. She had a really cool she is she's Russian. I'll find the name. And I'll let you know, you can read some of this stuff. Because her her interpretation of it was actually quite, she's really good. Yeah, okay. Yeah. We heard this week that the police are now investigating the Downing Street lockdown parties. And so far in Parliament roof, furiously refusing to resign. So let's see what's going to go on there. And then in Australia, it's been Australia Day this weekend. And this is a day that many love, and it's also a day that many loans no longer support. So from my perspective, the world so divided, Australia agreeing to change the date, because it's not a meaningful date to Australians, but it is a meaningful date to the original inhabitants of Australia, I think would go a long way to generating some goodwill and unify our country. We don't have the leadership, obviously, you know, I said he's capable of delivering on that. But I don't know, I think the momentum around that is definitely building or 75% of people want change. People. The problem is change. Do you mean yet change the person, right? 75, at least most reasonable people think the same thing. It's just, it's just, it's the it's the usual cohort of the guys that are in the media, you know, that kind of person. They spout all the stuff and you're but the thing is, it's only been a national holiday since 1994. We're not talking about a 200 year tradition here. We're talking about something that's happened in our lifetime. And it was more of a holiday to like harbor the end of summer. Yes, the day that the boats came and took over the as if you know what, Japan is going to come to Australia. And on the date, 100 years later, they're going to take it and they're going to massacre and they're going to do all the stuff. And then 20 years later, they're going to say you will celebrate our arrival on this date, and you will be happy with it. And that would just not happen to white people. So we need to change the date. Just no more arguing. Arguing. Change the date. Yeah. Okay. And they got a new date. And how much has it got to do with cricket? No, it's It's, you know what it's all to do with at the barbecue at the end of January. So let's have another day at the the 27th of January. But you know what we need to do we need to sit down with the First Nations people and say, What do you reckon? We'd like to celebrate? We needed maybe like a Thanksgiving Day, say or something. You can still have a barbecue if it's not Thanksgiving, but it's something you know, it doesn't need To be some jingoistic way or Australia flag and be a bogan day, we can actually come together properly and appreciate all of Australia on that day. How nice would that be? Just seems to be the hardest thing to think about. So I know. But you know, you know, when we look at the divisions in the world, it's one of those things that it could be a real example of unity. Yeah, no. Yeah. But instead, what what got everyone's attention this week in the news, of course, in Australia was a young woman who didn't smile for a man. And of course, that was Grace time, who was just finishing up her year as Australian of the Year. And the person that she didn't smile at was at the Prime Minister's scomo. It's definitely sky calling Scott Scott out his name he gave himself to make himself the ordinary bloke, you call him? Okay, I'll call him Scott, you don't call him Mr. Morrison, you because that's what he calls everybody else by their first name. You know, like, ya know, Scott, I've seen lots of different opinions, people say that she missed an opportunity to, you know, be the better person. Just that, you know, and I'm open to that. She, but like it's smiling at someone that you have zero respect for is is a very, very, very difficult thing to do if you've ever been in that situation. And especially in this case, because she was talking about violence against women in Australia, which is quite, in fact, one of the, one of the, one of the pieces today that was sort of talking about the fact she didn't smile at him underneath the piece that was his visual where it had three murders of women. That was in that week, right? Yeah. And woman had a child and two other women. Yeah. So it's a big issue. And he hasn't taken it seriously. And he hasn't done everything he can. So for me, he deserved the contempt that she showed him that day, but other people don't agree so. And then one of those issues where everyone gets really excited and passionate about it. I think I think people just need to sit down. So she's a high functioning autistic girl that was hated. She was raped repeatedly as a 15 year old by a teacher at her school. Scott Morrison put Amanda Stoker in as the Assistant Minister for Women. And she She said she's a supporter of a woman called Bettina and who gave the rapist a platform and, and felt sorry for him. So on every level, her mate Brittany Higgins, this government, this girl was raped doesn't matter how doesn't matter how short a skirt was, she was raped in Parliament, and they didn't call the police they called in the steam cleaners, that respect to work 55 things was suggested. The 49 Debbie ignored that he went to the refuse to go to the women's march and then made the comment that we're just lucky we went on in other countries because we would have been shot on every level. And even even that actual instance, she went to that she Milan to rent. check first. She went she went to that event as the outgoing Australia via invited by the Governor General not to Scott Morrison's house, she went, and he was there. I read somewhere that he actually wasn't supposed to be there. But he wanted the photo up. So he calls her over like a dog Grace, Grace come out grace. And and she didn't smiling. What would you and then and the good thing she did was she knew that if I don't know that she knew this, but and maybe she didn't even think about it. She'd know she'd not let that face up the whole time. Because all it would take one of these photo op guys is to get the moment she opened her eyes or smiled. And they could have used that. And she didn't. And she stood she stood around and you know what, sit down if you got a problem with it, because the reason why bad things happen is because these girls, she that all the people that have been subjected to this just forced to re traumatize themselves by telling what's going on and then smile at their perpetrators because it's making people feel uncomfortable. Oh, no, he's not. He No, he's just a bit touchy. You know, you know that? Well, Andrew. So yeah, not sit down. No, no, it's good. It's good to have you here because you're, you'll be flooded with the story and be getting so many perspectives on the story. I'm getting the bits and pieces like what you're sharing some other friends of my community sharing. And I think I think it's really important to be able to get that perspective from inside the nation that's going through it. Yeah. And some really thoughtful and compelling articles have been published by men and women. About the closing ones. Oh, cool. Talking about her breeding, like it's, she's some sort of horse and, and and yeah, and then you got the counter and people are just flooding with pictures of how he treats women and pictures of his, his the disdain and the contempt he holds women in so yeah, I mean, you know, maybe No, I'm proud of her for doing it. Yeah, she's made more of a statement in that three second grab than any like, that will go down in the annals of history. And that's, you know, nice lady. What's the saying nice women don't make change or whatever it is. It was called it was called iconic. The second it was published. Yeah. Which is unusual. Yeah. Yeah, what I find very interesting about this particular moment, for me is my own sense of, you know, like, where the right is, and all that. And it's been shifting all throughout this conversation as you've been, as you've been filling us in with more details. And I think my sort of naivety about the story actually, is probably why why the world works the way it does, its people will react in the in the way I initially reacted internally to the story, which was like, oh, no, to someone who doesn't want to smile, or whatever it is. And it's a it's a, it's one of those circumstances where it would be kind of kind of a nice thing to do whatever it is, and someone's saying, someone, someone's making a statement. But that's all that they will have, in their perspective, they won't have the rest of what you've just talked about, and that the whole backstory. And yeah, it's just, it's just one of those things. It's like, it's like, it seldom gets out. Right. And I think what's interesting about this is now it's getting out and now you're, you're sharing this and you've changed my perspective on that I really was about to say something, which had I said it back then, by the end of your rant, it would have been a very, very insensitive thing to say. Your face off. So yeah, I had the sense of shut up for a while. Yeah. Now that I rant, I just, I find it infuriating, and the right wing media just, they're just looking for anything now. And it's like, and people see through it all now. And, and it has to be ugly before it gets better. It there's going to have there's going to be more of this stuff. And you know, and it's exposing the the really entrenched misogynist, and there's so many of them are in media as well as politics. So it's actually exposing them. So it's making it easy for them to be seen. So it's a it's a good thing, even though it's a hard thing. Yeah, you got to, you know, every time we go through a fundamental change, where a lot of sort of, you know, aggressive sort of media and conversation happens. And a lot of people sit in the middle of it and go in, they're all fine. Everyone's fighting and talking and sharing their opinions and disagreeing with each other. But I actually always find it a it's a cleansing period, right where you need to get all the words out before everyone can stand back and go right. So what do we really want? I just wanted to, I just want to say looking good Philly. I'm presuming that Steve have been lazy. Yeah, Alvin Lee's with us here. He's one of my friends with Singapore many, many years. And we've got a Russian person who's written vom read. And I don't know what that means. Yeah, so two words. But anyway, good to have you here. And nice to see you here. I've been waiting so long to catch up. So yeah, leave a comment. We'll we'll check them out. All right. Should we move on to COVID? You guys ready? Yeah. No, Joe, you for you first shared this with me, there's been some rumblings about a new version of Omicron, which is now called ba two. So it's a new sub variant. It's highly contagious. It's more contagious than the original version of Omicron. But it is not more deadly. So that's good news. The World World Health Organization does not consider it a variant of concern. So we're gonna keep having variants while we have such a large percentage of the population around the world and vaccinated. But, Joe, anything you wanted to add, based on what you've been saying this week? Well, I was just gonna say that, you know, like, every time a new more contagious variant comes on, it begins to replace it. So actually, it is replacing Omicron the original VA one is actually replacing it in terms of infections. The other thing that is important to note though, is this, this this number and how it relates to things so even people tend to pick up on this, it's less serious or less whatever, right? They, they, they, they they take that on and and they go okay, then, therefore, we don't have to worry so much about it. There is first of all, a number of things happening, what is the and you share that as well the number of deaths in the US it's matching the number as when delta was at its peak, right. So that's one aspect of it and that has to do with hospitalizations. There is another aspect about COVID which we are not thinking about and a lot of a lot of people haven't haven't factored it in when when you think about things like a pediatric vaccinations right, which is the long term effects of of COVID side Just had a I just produced a webinar just last night actually where they were talking about pediatric COVID and long COVID. And one of the areas that people don't think about much is how COVID affects your BioDome. Right? Because it you know, you'll be when you, when you, when you get COVID, you lose your sense of taste, and whatever it is, you get the diarrhea, you get a lot of stuff that actually is affecting your gut as well. And some of those are very, very long term effects. And they can last, you know, we don't know exactly what the long term effects can be, and how long they last. But we know that Omicron also is more, it's more serious for young people now than it used to be then than the previous forms of COVID as well. So what it means is that young people are actually exposed to severe some, some some some possible severe disease as well, if they're not vaccinated. And so you have all these young kids that are because because first of all, the vaccinations didn't roll out as early. So you have a lot of young kids who are not vaccinated, but you also have a lot of parents who don't want to, to vaccinate their kids, because they have some fears and the legitimate concerns that you may have about the risks of getting a vaccination. But the weighing of the relative risk is what what the clinicians are worried about, people don't make a rational decision, it says that, you know, what, the, the risk of side effects from the vaccination is actually very low, it's about maybe one of the million, whereas the risks from getting COVID and, and the kind of complications you can have with it, if you if you catch COVID Now, especially on micron, are pretty significant. So you know, those those things you talked about the last time as well about how some people with long COVID ended up, you know, committing suicide, because it's such a drastic change to their life. Those are the kinds of dangers that actually young people are also exposed to because of how Omicron works, you know, younger people can get affected, and it spreads so fast as well means they have they have now a greater opportunity to catch it. So the need for vaccination is higher than ever before. Based on the work you've been doing, Joe, is it like we were talking about it last week? I don't, I don't envy a parent of an under 12 At the moment to make the decision. I mean, I know I would, I know I would make the decision to vaccinate my children. And, and but I know I would have gone really deep into into the science and the research to to make that decision, is there any way that you could recommend a resource, it's just an expert, something that you could recommend, obviously, your your webinar that you produced, where people can, people can go and dig into that information. So they can feel more, that they're making the right decision. Not know, one single resource, but I can say, go and look for information on both sides of your fear, right? Because you have fears and then you want to look for the information that confirms your decision. Right? Be prepared to go the other way as well and asks, okay, you know, don't just research the the dangers of the COVID vaccine. But also do the research on the dangers of long COVID and pediatric COVID. And those kinds of things. Because once you have both sides of it, then you can make that that better choice. If you don't if you're if you're obviously just going to do to immerse yourself only in the news that confirms your fears, it's very likely you won't make a choice that without that additional information is a completely valid choice. You know, if you don't if you don't know about the dangers of, of long COVID and pediatric conditions associated with with with COVID. You're not making you're not taking much of a risk with keeping your child away from the vaccine. Right? And, you know, yeah, it makes a difference. It's the same. It's like city season, a website where any reputable like, is that considered a reputable website with easily accessible and understood information for just as low if you trust them. But I mean, every every country has their own ministry of health. So it depends on if you It depends on which governments in power. And if you if you're on their side, if you're not on their side, you know, but somewhere like Singapore, I would trust the information that they would post there. And you can because you can go anywhere, any part of the world for information. So where I think you know, where the citizens have high trust? Yeah, probably. Yeah. I think it links back to this thing we were going to talk about scheduled for the end of the show where we talk about trust, right, but it is that problem, because if you're talking about the way this fear comes from China, if you talk about a US centric audience, they're concerned to start with about the vaccine and they hear all these other talk about all this talk about conspiracies and hiding the facts and this and that, and the government has its own agenda. In that kind of a scenario, it's almost like the CDC isn't the place that you would send someone to convince them. Because it's like, it's like saying, go to church to find out why you need to go to church. Right? It's, it's, the skepticism isn't going to help you make the right choice. So while I see them as reliable sources, I don't know that the best ways to convince someone so it really has to be, I think that the active speakers in our world have to have to be speaking the right thing. Right. So like, like, if you shared Howard, Howard Stern, I think, you know, doing it by mind, what is the right thing? But we need more of that. Yeah. I mean, obviously, the World Health Organization as well, I've heard a whole bunch of the doctors working for the World Health Organization and speaking at events over the last couple of years, and I've found them some of the most incredible speakers I've ever heard. You know, just from a genuine integrity perspective, so look, like Joe said, look at both sides, if you're determined not to vaccinate your children, at least be informed on what the other side is, and vice versa. But, you know, we don't have to make that decision that all of our children 12 or older, right. Yeah, but I think the other thing is people don't need to stand there. Oh, yeah. You're back now. I don't know what happened, then. Yeah, people need to graciously accept the consequences of their choices. So if you choose not to vaccinate your kids, for whatever reason, good or bad, you can't then have a tantrum because they're not welcome at at places that have vaccine mandates. You don't you can't you can't have it both ways. And you might have a very good reason. You know, well done you. But no, if you don't, if you can't, or won't, can't, or won't vaccinate your kids or yourself. There's no, there's no tangent in shopping centers. Yeah, but I've got to think it's just really important to educate yourself around. Oh, yeah. reading a lot about the neurological damage that's been happening to children who get COVID. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the neurological writing. The funny thing about that is that it's biodome associated because your brain and your gut actually is connected. All the ways it is right. And so that they're finding that link that they're discovering more about the science of it, so that that that's how that that's being the seeing what the impact is based on brain brain gut relationship. Yeah, gut health, gut health is starting to come up more as well. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's gonna be like, in a few years time, when we look back on this time, and where we were and what we knew, at this time, compared to what we will know, it's kind of fascinating to think about the leaps that we've already made, but the leaps that we will continue to make in our knowledge, and anyone who's still thinking, the same way that they were two years ago is not paying attention to all these leaps of knowledge and information and, and valid research that's taken place, you know, yeah, I don't have drawn. Having a growth mindset is not a is not as common as you think it would be. So people who cannot change, yeah, and then the real challenge with COVID and why it's so difficult to wrap yourself around it is because 20 Getting COVID isn't like the flip of a coin, where the two sides, right, it's actually a 20 sided die, where you get a different thing. If you're a different person and you have a different makeup. So COVID Isn't, doesn't represent one kind of disease. It's it really is a kind of a, it's a lucky draw, where you, you get all kinds of things you have, you have what you call the broad tendencies. And then you'll have the 70 year old who gets COVID and it's completely fine. You'll have the 93 year old I think it from Italy, the oldest lady, she gets it and she's fine. And then you'll have someone who's 20 something and they don't turn up, you know, as happily you know. So it's one of the troubles about COVID is that it's it's also very hard to know exactly what works because every time something else happens when when it when someone gets COVID time someone has a different reaction to it. So you're right about all the progress in science, but it also has created all these, these, it's I can't think of the exact or right way of the right metaphor for it, but it's like it's like an anthill, I guess you know, it's one one entrance to the top but there's so many different ways it could go underneath. And that's what COVID is. It's like you know, it's like many many versions of the the man holding the bind man holding the elephant rights. Everybody sees a different thing. Like the anti Until, okay, so you've mentioned it earlier, but the Delhi US, US death toll from COVID now matches delta. So to the 2000 people are dying from the virus every day. At the moment which matches like last late September, a large proportion of the dead are 65 years or older, or unvaccinated. And as Joe's mentioned, a lot of the deaths are happening because hospitals are overflowing. So people who potentially could survive and surviving because because, you know, because of the crazy situation, we saw that in India with the big, big waves that hit there, people just couldn't get access to oxygen, they couldn't get into hospitals, and they died. And they probably could have survived if the facilities were able to, you know, help. So today, there's 866,000 People who have died of COVID in the US. So I suppose in the next couple of months, we'll probably be looking at the million mark. And see, it's still it's only like 60, low 60% of fully vaccinated and boost boosted is even lower, but fully vaccinated people. So it's a bit of a sad one. Interesting. Sorry, Joe. I just couldn't be interesting to find out the the total deaths in America compared to like three years ago, just to see the spike from people dying because they had a heart attack and couldn't get to a hospital or existence. Yeah, excess deaths from Yeah, yeah. There's if you do a search for excess debts, they show you the information for every country. Just call it that it says debts. excess mortality, I think I think they said the technical word for it adding excess mortality, potentially, yes. Yeah. Now, and I was gonna say the following and say now, okay. Now, the tragedy of the situation right now is that the situation is different as like, there are now more drugs to treat COVID. And the problem that America is facing, is really one of education as well and belief, right? It's the thing where I have COVID, it's not serious, I don't have to worry about it, I can't, I won't, I won't deal with it, I don't find out I have it, I don't do whatever it is and then it then it gets out of hand. And then, you know, despite everything that we have right now, that can treat COVID COVID. Even Even if you get the seat that the more serious time is very survivable. Now because there are treatments that therapies they can they can they can be applied to you, even if you're not in hospital. And that's what's available. And that's not not not what is being used as widely as it could. So what ends up happening is, someone does catch COVID, they do have some of the early symptoms of it, they could have perhaps received the treatment that would have helped them prevent them get to the next stage where they wound up in hospital. And once you end up in hospital, it's usually not because it I mean, we're a bit more wimpy in Singapore, if you if you if you if you have a bit of a cough, and you think that something serious, you probably will end up in the hospital because you think okay, I can do it. It's not too expensive as well, you know, but it's a different story in the US US is like it's like you, you you, you run, you're running a financial risk to step into a hospital. And that's what's stopping people from actually sort of taking that step that may save their lives. So I think that that's the real tragedy is that is that we have such a high level of vaccination. That's one part of it, but it's also the level at which the treatments have come to you've got all these things that could have helped someone if the older person who caught COVID stepped into into into a medical into a health care environment and was able to get one of those oral treatments that would have helped as well, that could have averted the next level. You know, I was listening to MSNBC today in Florida, wrote the getting a new Surgeon General. And Eddie's hearing that the girl the democratic lady was asking him, him. Do you believe in vaccines? And he wouldn't answer question yes or no. They're trying to get rid of the vaccine mandate, but they're trying to flood the place with money. What's up mano, Mano? Yeah, but the problem with that is that they're saying is that they stopped sending it to Florida because it doesn't work on Omicron. So this kind of Florida, he's kind of thinking we're not going to get vaccines because if we get sick, we'll just have these things. And now those things are turning up because they don't work for Omicron and just go oh my god, this is my friends living in Florida. It's a it's a slightly frustrating place to be living through a pandemic from Yeah, and what they've been sharing on social media. Yep, yeah. Yeah. All right, two pieces. One in the New York Times, yes. Omicron is loosening its hold but the pandemic has not ended and other one in Al Jazeera endemic versus pandemic diseases, which really goes into the history of them, just from just from a knowledge perspective, I recommend reading both of those in my weekend reads, but you mentioned it earlier. So the world mourn the passing of meatloaf last week. He was definitely well loved. I did not participate in the, in the love fest that was shared with just because he did something many, many years ago. And I found it really disgusting. And it turned me off him for life. But anyway, he was also a very outspoken anti Vaxxer and anti masker. And you got it makes you wonder, did he regret his decision? And will we ever know, but Howard Stern of all people, has urged meatloaves family to speak out on COVID vaccines amid the rockers death. So let's see. Let's see if they do. Did he change his mind at the end? You know, but anyway, if I'm not expressing love, that's why I'm not expressing love for him. Yeah, I read I read the article. And one thing that I found interesting was that there was never any confirmation that he died from COVID. Right. And I don't think it's, it was it's not established what he actually died from. But it was it was a very under underreported part of the story. The majority of story just focused on his death. You had to search for it. Okay. Okay. So it was confirmed that it was to do with COVID was that it was definitely kind of it. Yep. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I, what I found was interesting about the story was about, you know, how it didn't begin with this thing about about not praying or not not wanting to wear masks at all, but just that mass, we were so restrictive and so uncomfortable, that the rebellion was against that. And it was like you say, This is too hard to do. So I want to be free. And and so you, you kind of like, push in the opposite direction. I'm just amazed at the number of talk show hosts that have died, you know, the the ones who are anti vaxxers, I think, four or five I think last year, you know, that that perished? And you know, what do you what do you say to them? You know, they have you leave a voice message behind it goes like oops, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Religious leaders too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. And the feeling in the hospitals? Yeah, we've got a nurse with quite a few nurse friends. And, you know, they often when they're incubating them, actually one of them said, as they're about to intubate people, their loved ones is to saying, Oh, God, give him the vitamin C, given the information, and they're saying, no, no, it's too late. Yeah, no, it's not gonna work. This is the only thing that's going to keep him alive. Yeah. So I want you another word which, which is sort of caused some consternation by you know, like, you know, how there was a lot of talk about Hi, how ivermectin doesn't do very much with the other sort of COVID treatments? irritatingly enough, there seems to be some indication that it does help in Omicron. So think that isn't one of the things that you just want to you just want the information to be true and not pushed by people that aren't scientists, everyone to go into scientists came forward like a peer reviewed study, and blah, blah, blah, and it's all written and reviewed and all the rest of it, you go, Ah, how interesting is that? How hilarious it this time last year, it didn't work against Delta, but it's gonna work against some records off we go, and everyone got on and they take them to medicine because everything's been so politicized. And it's this is a health catastrophe. And it's been made a political catastrophe, and therefore that's pending. It's gonna go for years because yeah, it only one sock. Yeah, what movie the scientific attitude which is hard to turn to have is the one where you go like, I was wrong smile, because I found out I was wrong, right. And it's a, we have too much invested in what we said before and what it looks like when we're wrong now. It applies very much to science as well. So all the stuff that we there's a lot of talk in Singapore, but flip flopping. But essentially what the what the government here has been doing is it's been agile, you know, it's been learning what is the smart thing at this particular point. And then at this particular point, what it is right, alright, as before, just a minute before we move on to the next story, Joe? I just want to make sure we're not spreaders of fake news. So is this info maximum angle with Omicron verified it's it was chaired by one of the doctors from out of India we had we have a webinar and they were talking about the the the either Mexicans right so it's the way it is the way it works in relationship to some of the some of the karma what the exact words were because I'm not I'm not a doctor, but it's just it's just a way it engages the body system. And so it does have some effect seemed to show some promise there. But it you know that the real problem with ivermectin, for instance, is, because it's such an old drug. And even if it could do something as well, even though the way to figure it out, there's no money in it for the studies to be carried out to prove it in that way, as well. Everybody would rather try and find a new way that they can monetize to prove that it kind of works. I will say that there's enough work that's been done to feel where they've used ivermectin in combination with a number of other things in sync and other stuff. That seems to have provided some good results in India. Right. So you gotta go. Does it work? Does it not work? We don't have a full double blind test, large scale clinical trial to prove that it worked. But it seemed to have had some impact there as well. So it's, it's it's hard to say scientists scientifically, you can't you can't say there's enough of a clinical trial to say everything is confirmed. 100%. But there's also and this is the trouble with it. Why when you look at a 10 a tendency for things to happen? Do you go like there's nothing there? Or is there something there? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, when, when of information first came up, so I'm lucky to have a friend who's the Chief Research Officer for a biotech company, and I just dropped him a note and go, I've heard about this, what do you think because of course, in the developing world, something like That's great. Because it's cheap. It's easily accessible, you know, and I just had a really good conversation. And he basically said, it's not but it doesn't mean it's not relevant now. So you know, obviously, keeping an open mind, right. Another story, he is how anti vaxxers use Instagram to monetize COVID-19 vaccine fake news. So these stories are really, really, really important. If you are following someone, and you believe in what they are saying, I think it's really important to also know how they make money, or don't make money. Because it's a really important part of assessing their credibility. There's a lot of people out there who are listening to people, and those people are making millions. Now the problem is, we can't comprehend how somebody could be wired that way, which makes it difficult for us to, to even challenge that, that, like it's what's right for them to make a little bit of money. But if they're making money by simply by sharing a message, which is false or even dangerous for their audience, and could potentially create harm for their audience, which we've seen many, many examples of, I think that's, it should be the first warning flag that maybe that's a person that might not be telling the whole truth. Well, that's, that's Foxtel, not just Instagram Foxtel. They have a mandate, and they have a vaccine mandate, and that they're on every night spouting don't take don't take the vaccine. Yeah, and then they know it's wrong. And no one stops him. So they keep going. And you know, it's a challenge, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, but I thought that was a good one. No final piece. Another big piece around COVID was a Boston, Boston hospital, has denied a heart transplant to a man, because he hasn't got the COVID-19 vaccine. This guy's 31. He's young dad. And without the vaccine, it's a no. So it's really created some. So I don't just read the article, sometimes I actually go and read the comments, which is something you should only do when you're feeling in a sane state of mind. But to get a transplant, you have to have a COVID vaccine. But you also have to have lots and lots and lots of vaccines. Because your your immune system is compromised from the medications, which will keep you alive after you've had the actual transplant and give you the organ going in. Obviously, they don't want to waste any organs in a world where there's a shortage. So, you know, for me, it's like, okay, this, this is the way it goes. But the conversations have been really enlightening. There's been a lot of people who have been incredibly malicious. And we talked about that last week, I think you went there for that job. Some of them are saying, well, you can't force him to vaccinate. And I kind of think that's missing the point. They're not really forcing him to vaccinate. They're saying, if you want to do this procedure, then it's a requirement of the procedure is vaccination. So you know, I don't see that as forcing and of course, then you've got the other side saying it's criminal, they would take away the opportunity for a 31 year old man to live. So, you know, I don't know to me, if you're going to go for a transplant, you got to get vaccinated not just with COVID for COVID, but for everything to give yourself the chance to leave because if you die because of your decision, somebody else missed out on their heart. And they Yeah, they die. Right. So you know, what do you guys think? That's one of the toughest things when you talk about medical ethics. Right, and and how do you make that calculation because in the face of medical ethics, or in fact, sometimes just just straight on ethics, like, you know, the more, the more logical choice or the or the correct choice seems in the same to everybody else's involved, right. One of the examples that I have that I always think about is like, for instance, you can you can do, you can spend hundreds of 1000s, or even$20,000, on trying to save one person's eyes, right in terms of their site. And it feels like a really good thing. But if you took that money and did a very simple procedure, you could save 20,000 children from losing their sight in third world country. And think, what what is the better choice? The answer, obviously, is going to be well, you should be saving the 20,000 kids or the other several 1000 kids. But can you make that choice in that moment? So it feels terrible, it you know, it reads terribly as well, because you got like you're here, someone who he's at the precipice of it, it's life saving. And the thing that he has to do is to make this impossible choice for himself, which seems to be put upon him by by by everybody else around. Is it correct? I think it's completely correct. It's like someone who says, like, I want a heart transplant, but I refuse to stop smoking. My question would be, why doesn't he want to have the vaccine? Because he's scared because one of the side effects of the vaccine is inflammation around the heart. Yeah. And one of the symptoms of Omicron is inflammation. So yeah, the thing is, after you have a transplant, you have to have a metric ton of drugs for the rest of your life. So yeah, yeah, it's it's a consequences thing again, and yeah, I suppose Joe, you're right. You just, it comes down to ethics, mythic medical ethics? Well, it's kind of a calculation you also do, you're like, Okay, well, here's the thing that I can avoid, and try to avoid beyond this point. Well, maybe I should be allowed to take this path and be really paranoid about never coming across Omicron, which is a mathematical impossibility. By the way, I've been fact checking myself in the last few minutes about about remdesivir I've conflated the two. It doesn't get better when I say hydroxychloroquine. No, it's not still no beach getting into this, but they're there. Yeah, but we're back to the heart, though. You gotta wonder why. Because as we're going to discuss about trust, trust, the media is so bad, there's got to be an agenda behind that story. Why did they put that story out? You know, what, what were they trying to get the rabble to go with that story? Yeah, it's a, it's appeared in every publication, like around the world. So if the if it started in a media with an agenda, it's sort of in the family went forward to the media to sort of make the case right now. Because young man, you know, all that sort of stuff. So obviously feel for for the family, and, you know, they potentially going to lose him. But you know, they've got a they've got a policy in place. And, and vaccination is part of the part of the thing that you've got to do everything you can, so that the investment of these heart in your body is the best investment means the best way for us to use these precious hogs from from another donated by somebody else's Yeah, another family life. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, it's a it's been, it's not an easy one to, you know, having, you know, well, passions or passions are high, but it's not an easy thing to sort of, you know, well, the story being the story, it is may have nothing to do with agenda, really. And it's one of those, I mean, if I'm just looking at it from a writer's perspective, right, it's the perfect way to get everyone interested, right. It's like, well, no matter how you feel about this, you've got to pop it over to read it right. Even Even if you will completely agree with whatever's being said. You still have to open up an article to agree with it, because it's you can see the controversy in it, you can see that there's a different view and you just want confirmation or you want to have a fight without you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not an easy one, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the environment. And I want to start off with some really good news. Susanna hasn't Hill finally worked out how to say her family name correctly. Anyway, she's been appointed as senior vice president and head of sustainability for Asia Pacific in Japan for SAP. And I just wanted to say, I, every time I've been on LinkedIn, or even Facebook this week, I've just seen the big smiling faces Suzanna on my screen. And I'm just so delighted for her. She's she's an example of somebody who's worked really hard for a really, really long time. And that hard work has been recognized. And this is an opportunity for her to create massive change at scale across the entire region. And just want you to know, she's been a regular on the no show, and I just wanted to know that we're here to support her and cheer her on all the way so I don't know if you Have you guys want to add anything on HR human relations? Yeah, congrats. I was giving my kid advice on what to look out for in terms of careers down the road, right. And it used to be, I don't think if you were interested in the environment when you were young, that would be a way to write your own check in the future. But there's a little bit of that. I mean, if you if you're, if you're being entrepreneurial right now, and and you combine a bit of marketing and a bit of trend spotting as well, to be someone who's an expert in the environment, and perhaps have a business degree as well, you'd be pretty much in demand in the next 20 years. Yeah, any green tech, if you're going to go to law school, study sustainability. If you're if you're a leader of business, you want to be a CEO in a sustainable development goals, you know, it's yeah, we, this 2020 to the beginning, it's just there's a surge, you know, and we're on a new path for humanity, whether in time or not another thing, but one of the let's talk about some of the other news in the environment, didn't have time to talk about this last week. The headline is, chemical pollution has passed safe limit for humanity. Alright, so I wanted to bring this up last week, but it actually requires a little bit more focus, and it didn't fit within what I was talking about last week. But the cocktail of chemical pollution that we've got in the world, right now threatens the stability of the global ecosystems upon which humanity depends. This is a different topic, to the climate crisis, in most people's mind, like the waste crisis, the climate crisis, the chemical crisis, they're actually all different things. So we're not just dealing with one big thing that needs to change. We're dealing with lots of different things. But plastics are a huge part of the concern, as well as 350,000 synthetic chemicals, the majority of which have never been studied for safety. And this includes pesticides, industrial compounds and antibiotics. I think it was last week in the in the weekend raids where I shared an article on the amount of deaths per year based on antibiotic antibiotic resistance. So this is a really huge issue, because it's not just the antibiotics we take. It's also the ones we eat through, like cows and chickens and stuff, right? Anyway, but chemical pollutions threatens the Earth's system by damaging the biological and physiological or physical processes that underpin all life. So you're treating a crop with chemicals. But that can also kill the bugs in the ecosystem around that crop. And that impacts the health of the soil, the cleanliness of the water, and lots of other things. So chemical production has increased 50 fold since 1950. And it's projected to triple again by 2050. So plastics are also projected to triple by again by 2050. Okay, so here's the big piece of the story that I think is important. The chemical pollution planetary boundary is the fifth of nine that scientists say have been crossed. The others are global heating, the destruction of wild habitats, loss of biodiversity, and excessive nitrogen and phosphorus pollution. We're doing a good job, aren't we? Alright, seriously, I mean, and that the whole pollution, chemical pollution thing, he kind of look at, you know, all of Europe's water, all of their water is full of these. Yeah, chemical. So many of these chemicals basically go into the environment. That's it that you there's nothing you can do. They're there forever. This piece I did you guys have a chance to read it. I didn't read that one. No, no, no, this one. Yeah, it's a big one, you know, we've passed five of the nine planetary boundaries. You know, this thing about the chemicals that we consume? That's the crazy thing about the world we live in right now. I mean, the idea the free radicals that we face all the time, right? It's all it's all around us all the time. I think the one that really got me was the Forever chemicals that we've we've also consumed right? Things like Teflon, which because of how good it is at not mixing with other stuff means it never breaks down and if it enters your system, it basically is there forever becomes part of your your your your makeup. I and I know that my solution to most things is technology and I go like I get this therefore we need to figure out how to counter it. I'm very much for self preserving cures, right things, things being driven by a massive need and it's and some of these things are I know What you're trying to do, but when you when you talk about these things, it says say like, it's time to stop the supply side, it's time to stop it putting more bad chemicals out, there's plate, it's time to stop putting more carbon in the air, all this stuff and all that. And what I am trying to do is I think when when this when this, when enough of that pain builds up, someone goes and solves the problem, hopefully, on the other side, where they go, like, let's create this super carbon eating machine, let's create this super, whatever, you know, chemical cleansing machine, or let's create a super lung for the earth, or whatever it is. That's my kind of, you know, other side of the story for me, I'm always looking out for a Tony Stark in real life, you know, like, yeah, the problem with that sort of way of thinking for me is that people think that we can continue as we are, and technology will solve the problem. But we can't continue as we are, we have to fundamentally shift how we, how we live, how we buy, how we consume the whole chemical thing, you know, my boys, you know, might get McDonald's twice a year. And I'm constantly talking to them about the reason you're not having McDonald's. And there's many, many reasons, but the reason is because it's not food, it's chemicals. And, you know, it's not pure food. They, I that's what I want. And then I'll tell them, how do you feel after you eat it, and I make them pay attention to the feeling in their body. Because when, when I was like, sort of like a teenager, McDonald's was very exciting thing in Australia in the 80s when we got it. And then I don't know, I just sort of started noticing that my face really itched. And I don't know if you've got he probably didn't even eat it fell apart. But Philip was always a vegetarian, and then she became celiac. So probably McDonald's hasn't been a big part of your life, right. But the physic I noticed the physical thing. And then Steve took one of the boys off and McDonald's when they were young. And when they came home, they were being an absolute turd. And Steve was getting really grumpy. And I'm like, you don't have any right to be grumpy with him, because you've given him the food that has turned him into a turd. So you've got to put up with this. Because you know, the food does have an impact on you. And then now when we're in America, and our holidays, especially around the whole Disney and stuff, I every every day, the only food you had access to had was full of chemicals, the bread had chemicals in it, or high sugar. We've got this, you know, we've just got this whole system around the world where where we're eating it, we're spraying it, we're putting it in our hair, we're more fit, you know, females are moisturizing their bodies with fake estrogen. You know, it's like, we've, we've just allowed this chaos to be surrounding us. And we just have to step back from it all and go, do we really want that, like food production has gone like that, right? The industrialization of food has gone like that, oh, look, special needs kids gone like that, you know, like all these health illnesses that didn't really exist in cultures around the world? Look, they're going like that. What's the common thing? Well, okay, so this, again, the old wrench to throw into things, right? Same thing for, for for for viruses, you get mutations. And that's really what happened. So is the mutation caused by all this additional stuff, all the chemicals in the system? Or is it because mutations are going to happen? You know, is the human being the human being? Is it evolving? You know, we, we talk about all these numbers going up in this direction. And what we actually have corresponding to that is actually a higher survivability rate, as in like, it used to matter a lot more how you behave, because if you were weird enough, the tribe you would either be rejected by the tribal, you would, you would, you would end up you might even die because of an act of violence, right? We've, we've we've and and this, I'm sorry, to be radical about this, but it's like, we tolerate so many different things that we do have a lot of, of things now that are completely different. So you're, you're you're you're someone who has special needs, for instance, then becomes, you know, that it goes back, it goes back into the gene pool as well as special needs and it goes back because because what used to be a reason for exclusion, we no longer allow or accepted as a reason for exclusion. And so it becomes, it becomes included. So, yes, on one hand, we have this correlation, but I don't know whether it's causation, you know, it is it is it just that I mean, I I suspect that it is and it has something to do with it. But I also think that this other stuff has to be factored in as well. You know, there there are too many people I know who would not have survived the fifth These, you know, they they just put of violence would have happened to them? You know? But but they do because this is the world we live in today. Right? So the natural selection has gone away. So what we have is now unnatural growth? Yes. But we're living longer, but what's the quality like for the majority of people? And that's the thing, you know, and I know a lot of people who obviously focused on getting old and having quality quality of life, but I don't think the majority of people who are getting old and being kept alive, like, you know, Phillip, and I, and our family, we've had some family members kept alive for many, many, many years. And I don't think that was necessarily a good idea for them. But because they could be kept alive, they were kept alive, you know, so. Yeah, you know, just, you know, it's a big philosophical discussion, this one, but yeah, no, I don't I don't envy it. Because we just have this this discussion. And it is crazy math, things that I come up with, which make the rest of the family look at me and go like, You're weird. Yeah. We were talking about, for instance, my, my father in law, who has a really good pension scheme. And I said, So what happens if he gets really ill? Right? Because my mother in law lives off the benefits of this paid pension scheme as well. Would you necessarily say when when the time came that you'd go like, Okay, we'll pull the plug in on his life support, while at the same time you're pulling the plug on the healthcare, and all the other benefits that go for mom as well. You know, it's that kind of thinking that that one chancing it lucky Plaza, kept me he said he's connections really horrible. But he's, he's here. And he's, he thinks it's an interesting discussion. Hello, Wayne. Yeah. That's a really good. Yeah, that's yeah. Maybe it needs to be a theme for you. Because that's all part of I mean, female poverty in the in, in retirement age is Philipe. God, if you if we lost your sound, yet. Yeah, we've lost your sound. Have you muted? Yeah, female poverty in retirement age is a huge, huge issue around the world. And a lot of it is to do with, you know, the man has, he's pretty cool. And pension. Yeah, it's a different situation for women. You want to check your mic felpa. Now, we've lost your sound anyway. Alright, I'll go on to the next one. So I thought that so many couple years ago, I read this article, and it was talking about how trees are migrating. But I didn't mention this one last week. Not this week, but I've heard about the idea of the trees migrating. Yeah, right. So there's this one, it's called the tree line is out of control, how the climate crisis is turning the Arctic green. And obviously, this matters for the people who are living in the Arctic, but also for the animals. But this is amazing, right? These trees are moving. That leap. They call it leaping north at a rate of 40 to 50 meters a year. I read that story. I was just like, well, that's like people would see trees is solid. Last week, we also talked about BlackRock, the world's largest fund and the CEO told investors it was time to step on, on sustainability. But this week, it's Aviva Investors. And it said it will vote to try to get directors kicked out of firms that fail to make good on environmental pledges. It also wants boss's boss's pay to be linked to sustainability goals. So I think this is this is a really good sign that I think the financial services industry is going to be a huge part. Especially the investment side, I did a podcast with some authors talking about this. I encourage everyone to have a listen. Philip, are you here? No. Can you hear me? Yeah. All right. Not sure what's going on. Sorry. That's all right. Shell, there's an article shells massive carbon. So this goes back to the technology argument, shells, massive cap carbon capture plant is emitting more than it's capturing. Technology is not the answer, it will be part of the answer. But it's not the answer. Did you guys have any comments on either of those stories? I'm just trying to take along now. I'm sorry. I was thinking about my microphone not working. Yeah, I think it I think Joe was saying that before he thinks his answers in technology and all that sort of stuff. But it needs to be much more holistic, doesn't it? Yes. And you know if if it takes the CEOs who are paid obscene amounts of money to kind of bear bear the weight of the shareholders and actually start doing something because the government's aren't then that's if that's how it's gonna start. That's how it's gonna start. Yeah, I think it's gonna be a huge part of it. So there's another reason it's called why I'm staying angry about climate change. This appeared in The Atlantic I don't know if I should share this with you. I think I read it last night after I shared stuff with you but um, It's a really, really, I think it's a really important article. And it talks through the the emotions of somebody who has fully faced up to the threat of the crisis the world faces, and the impact of that has on your mental health. And it offers some great advice on self care. But the important thing about it is, there's no way of avoiding going into periods of despair. There's no way you can avoid anger, that frustration, you can't you can't avoid it. But if you are struggling, I'm always offering this to people, if you're struggling, I am always happy to talk to people, I might do some, I might do some sort of sessions on my Facebook group. I'm not an expert in mental health, but I am I've been living with this everyday for years now. And sort of the reason why I wrote my book uncommon courage, because I wanted to talk about how I got to the mindset I've gotten to, because I'm also dealing with these extreme information all the time and the you know, you guys will know, but there's days where I'm, I'm absolutely knocked out with with fear, depression, frustration, anger, sorrow, fear for my children's future, like I feel, you know, they're starting to say things to me, now, I know that they're starting to really get the sense of the biggest story that's going on in the world. And, and I, I've tried to protect them from that for as long as possible so that they can be children, but I can't protect them from it forever. So they're stepping into that now. And I've got to be I've got to, I've got to parent them through it. But it's and that's not an easy thing to do, either. But yeah, it's not an easy thing to face. But if you're, if you are in that spot, or if you're ready to move into the facing of the crisis, and really, really looking in the eye, which is what it requires. I'm always here to help and support because it's not easy, but it needs to be done. And we need as many as possible doing it. So I know you guys didn't have a chance to read that. But any thoughts? Have you gone through your own eco anxiety? Yeah, I think it's just the grief, isn't it? But it's a grief of something that's not gone yet. But you know, yeah. And the other thing is, I think people get overwhelmed. And sometimes you just need small steps. And just one small step this week, just did that this week, and then next week, and then before, you know, you're looking back, and you've made all these changes, and I think if people just stop being overwhelmed, and just start moving forward. Yeah. And, you know, for the last, especially for the last year, but last couple years, I've been doing that trying to share those sort of things that people can do, you know, tips tricks, you know, just do it this week, you know, like I'm one of so many things I could share but yesterday I shared I think it was 27 single use items we get at a loss right. plant plant pollinators. You know, we've got some amazing pollinators including these hummingbird moth that literally looks like a hummingbird is beautiful. And it loves our boat and really is so when I'm assuming in the pool, I say these beautiful creature. So now I've decided I'm going to plant more pollinators hanging off the edge of the pool so that I can attract more bees, wasps, pollen, moths, whatever. You know, composting. Not throwing things out. Yeah, everything, everything, everything you buy you think about it in a different way. You know? Yeah. Where's this going? You know, where does it come? Nabbit Andrew, where did it come from? as well. It's only from where it comes from, but to for you to buy it. Now, the whole cycle where it came from? Yeah. You know, you buy like, I tried to buy one good thing. And we don't upgrade phones and you know, and good quality furniture and and just keep it you don't need a new lounge suite every two years. You don't need all that sort of stuff. You don't need a new Christmas tree theme every year either. Right? Yeah. So it's all that it's all that sort of stuff is just just just shrinking a little speck. We've got to shrink our lives but because Yeah. I'm thinking big enough the rubbish off the beach. So are a lot of other people. It's kind of nice to have a have a less of a bigger life to be honest. No, no. Yeah, it's kind of nice. There's joy. There's joy in lifestyle change. Yeah, like go out. We got a veggie garden and tomatoes and all the herbes compost chickens when our rabbits it's really nice. Yeah. Okay, another final story from the on the environment. Jordan Peterson is in the hot seat again. Do you guys know Jordan Peterson? I've heard of him. He's one of those people I have not looked into because other people say, I've avoided him. Right right now. A lot of men, especially young men who are struggling with their mental health sort of really respond to him. And yeah, you know, I he said some derogatory stuff as far as women is concerned, which is where a lot of the negative rhetoric started, and I'm sure I've got friends in my community have got very strong opinions on him, but he did speak on joven Rogan's podcast this week. And remember, he's the guy on on Spotify that people are trying to get off Spotify. That basically he said that the claiming the climate was too complex. So he claimed the climate was too complex to be modeled accurately. So the climate scientists have described his comments as stunningly ignorant that he has mixed up weather predictions with climate projections, because yet they can't be done long term weather projections. And it's no one no one said it is, it's as if someone with zero expertise and knowledge made comments about something he knows little about. So anyway, stay in your own line, Joe? Oh, no, Joe, Jordan. I was just thinking it I was just thinking about this time is, and in Australia, normally the scientists they'd like either when you decide to have a very good reason because you know, they don't they want to sit in the lab and do stuff. But now they're just there, they have to put his bow with people that have no idea saying stuff. So we've got some guys here are just roasting people online. And it's, it's because it's so clever. It's it's a sight to behold. And they just smashing them with like facts and just acerbic wit. And it's just it just getting them and it's like, it's a joy. There's nothing else. Yeah. And people. Well, those intelligent people are now being added in hashtags, every time something comes up. So they're being forced to engage as well. But even funny things like Victoria Police. So one of the journalists here writes a ridiculous claim that the the kids on the beach, were being watched by, you know, the helicopter, and Victoria Police went on to this woman's site and said, are not we're just doing this. So people are interacting and comp and and batting back old information. That's good. Yeah. That's what we need all over the world. And something I'm talking about a lot, too many smart people are going away, because they don't like the conversation. No, yeah, they need to get involved. Because because we need that we need the smart people involved in the conversation, because I think they're smart enough. Well, then, it also is a little bit about patience and stuff like that, because I invited my sister to listen into the show last a few weeks ago. And she's in a category of smart and he can process a lot of stuff, right? And she did get to the point where she said, like, I got about an hour that I ran out of ears, right? Yeah, that's probably true. It's, there is there is a bit of that about that, as well as in like, I find that I have, I have some friends who very intellectually, put shortcuts on to everything, they figure out this and all that good. Now, now, they come up with shorthand for this. And that's done, I come up, try and do this. And that's done. And a lot of these longer discussions are just not longer discussions for them. Because they just they just look at that you're like, No, you're wrong. And that's it. And they don't spend any time justifying it or arguing with it, and they're done with it. So there's a bunch of that it's more than it's actually more of a rarity to find someone who has really worked it out who's going to spend time trying to convince everybody else why it's correct or wrong. It's somebody else who's like me, who is perhaps, you know, driven by some other kind of need, that, that that that will use this, this the use the correct knowledge to achieve those other things in mind. Right. So that says more about my psychology than my than my intellectual ability. I mean, for me, it's like such a privilege to be able to every week be able to sit down because because I'm reading all this stuff, and I'm watching all this stuff. Once a week, I can sit down and talk to people about it. And, you know, I don't presume I'm always right. And I'm always happy to be wrong. Because I'd rather I'd rather know that I'm wrong. So I can, I can learn. Yeah, you know, exactly. Right. Well, I'm also, there's one thing that I thought about just a while ago about value as well, because you know, that people sometimes who see that environmental problem is too big for them to make a real difference, right. And sometimes people talk about things like, you know, just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as a bad as a bad thing. You know, I like to look at things from an economic standpoint, and I like to look at things in terms of value. And even if what you do is insignificant, it's not going to make a difference at all, but it increases the value of your life. I'm okay with that. You know, so I'm not I'm not necessarily the kind of person like if I if I you know, if somebody I meet has a belief which is based on something that's completely untrue, but for whatever reason, it's making them feel good. I feel there's an obligation for me not to go in there and change that. Thinking and make their life less meaningful. There's this, there's no need to do that. Right? If they're literally happy where they are with a false belief, and it doesn't hurt anyone, you know, let them let them be. No, absolutely. And we're not invading where we're participating in the social sphere of people can choose to come and listen and, you know, interact, we're not enforcing, there's no I don't, I don't feel that we're forcing ourselves on anybody at all. This is by no means an intellectual death rate. It's, you know, nice. Alright, let's move on to the theme of the week. And normally fillable would get to have a theme, but I sort of forced this one on you, sorry, but um, this came out last week, and we didn't have time to. You need to spend some time on this report before you can even talk about it. And this is Edelman's Trust Barometer, which is now in its 22nd Jia. And I've been tracking this report for more than half its life, because I've always found it a really, really important topic as far as the profession that I mean. And obviously, the the trust within our societies has been progressively getting worse. So they always come up with a theme, and this year, it is the cycle of distrust. Now, Joe, I know you didn't have time to read the whole report. And by the way, if you guys want, there's a can you say that? There's the the trust 10. It's a single page, it's got my highlights on it. It's a single page, you can download off the Ottoman website, find it in my weekend rates, and you can just look at the top 10. But Phillip, it's your first time reading through the full report, right? Yep. Yep. How did you go? Because? Because I'm year on year reading it, what was your sort of impression? Well, my I actually, I just love, I just wish everything can be presented in graphs, and, and perfectly balanced shading and all the rest of it, because it really makes things stand out. And of course, because I'm Australian, a lot of what I was, I was looking at the Australian parts in there. But the most important thing I think from that is the worst the what they're finding in the world, is the government and the media are divisive and the dividing force, but they're not going to change because they want the clicks and they want the votes. So it's being left up to it. And you know, the CEOs and industry to do the change, but they often don't have the wherewithal to make the changes that are needed. And yeah, and so like I've read through it and took notes, and just so much of it like Job, the worst things, job loss, climate change hackers and cyber attacks at freedom as a citizen, which was an experiencing racism, or prejudice or racism. So the government, the media, it's they feed the cycle of division, and disinformation for votes in cliques. And we know it, but when it's in black and white, and when it's backed up with statistics and stuff, it's like, yeah, that's what we always thought. And yeah, we have to break the cycle. It's a really beautifully put together report. And I agree with you, it's it's an it's the way it's presented makes it easier to easy to digest. So I tracks 27 countries, but business, NGOs, media, and government. And so year after year, they do a comparison of trust between those four. So the good news is, business is trusted, but also the NGO Trust has increased again. So it's up to this year. And it's sort of been gradually coming up. But few years ago, they had they really got to hammering because there was a lot of crises going on within the humanitarian sector, there was a lot of local sort of rapes and stuff. That was horrible stuff going on. But government and media have gone down. And as you said, the government and media are seen as dividing forces, whereas business and NGOs are seen as unifying forces. So that's a good thing. They look at media trust, so are new sources. So some of the wordings sort of changed over the years. But the four areas they measure is search engines, traditional media, owned media and social media. So search engines are down all the way through down to social media, which is way down in the red. They have not fixed their issues. And yet the trust is incredibly low. Fake News concerns are all times highs where people think that fake news or misinformation is going to be used as a weapon 76% of people and that's up four points. But you know, the whole we think, you know, this is the government's role to fix it. But you look at Biden, right? And how can you possibly fix the divisions in the US? It's impossible, right? So they're not able to say it and there's an article in New York Times called our tribalism will be the death of us. I definitely recommend having a look at that. Societal fears are on the rise. So one of the things that you're talking about Phillip are those sort of the five things so it's almost like To Change hackers and cyber attacks, losing my freedom as a citizen, and experiencing prejudice or racism. So these are the societal fears, the strongest ones. And obviously, job losses in this in this time that you would expect it. Climate change has never been number two, it's never been number one, but it's never been number two, it's usually choosie, five or lower. So I was I was actually kind of relieved to see that it's going up there. And I've said, I was reading a report in America, like more than 70% of Americans are now concerned about the climate, which is, which is a huge change. But basically, what what the cycle of trust is creating is that it's basically going to threaten our societal stability. And so now, NGOs and businesses are being looked at, to counter out the divisiveness of business of government and media media. Yeah. So it's pretty like, whoa, but yeah, so distrust is the default. And one of the ones I always look at is, who do we trust? So a lot of the report saying, trust is more local, but it's, that's actually always been the case. So you know, in the top, the top five people that you trust your family, your friends, your social media, community influences that are close to you and your colleagues yet, right. So that's always the top five. But scientists came in at number one trusted. So that's a good sign. That is a good sign. Finally, login, lock in a Hollywood blockbuster. They're listening to the scientists. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Family owned businesses. The ones anything you think about it, especially? I don't know, Thailand, Singapore, but we have all the what do you call it franchises here. So you know, someone, but then they have to pay money to this person to pay me this money to this person to the shareholder. And, and that, you know, that's, you know, the, the wages are crushed, to make sure more money goes up, and all the rest of it. And then yeah, and then you look at, like a family owned business, like the local butcher, people, people trust that that person because it's all everything's right, in that little, little, you know, microcosm, you know, the money's not going up and up and up, and people are being pushed down to get the more money up to the top, say, I suppose that makes sense. So one of the it's like 90 to 95% of businesses in Asia are family owned businesses having the really big empire. So huge part of the culture in Asia. But the other organization that was trusted was the World Health Organization. And again, the United Nations, I was kind of happy to see that. So I mean, there's some really good, there's some good things in it. But when trust, distrust is the default, there's basically there's no opportunity for conversation, right? So one of the points, the big points is that there's a collapse, interesting of collapse of trust in democracies. And I just want to say to everyone, if you value being part of a democracy, and you want to continue to have a democracy, then I think we've got to all stay. We've got to find a place in the middle of a middle ground, we've got to, because our distrust will destroy the foundation of the democracies that we value. And if you look at the bottom, countries in the in the in the league table, Russia has been at the bottom for a couple years now. The US has dropped and dropped and dropped. The UK, Germany dropped off significantly in Australia. Is that because Angela Merkel has left or not? I don't know if she had would have even left by the time that this was done. It could be the hang of the pandemic. But the biggest the biggest gainers were China, China's in at number one, you are UAE and Thailand. So, you know, you've got to figure, you know, the government's have done a good job during this period of time. And the biggest losers Germany, Australia, the Netherlands, South Korea and the US. South Korea has been pretty low for a long time. I don't know what they getting wrong over there. But yeah, UK is just down the bottom. Not surprising. But yeah, we've got to, but they're looking at the business leaders as societal leadership is, is the future. So but as far as I suppose, in one sense, the politicians and the media don't suffer the consequences of their bad decisions generally, unless they get voted out. Like they're not going to suffer the consequences of a terrible policy decision that takes money off single mothers. But a CEO will suffer the consequences of bad decision because when they go to the annual board meeting, the Board meeting and the shareholders are saying not mate, you're out. So I suppose yeah, there are consequences for CEOs. And it may be well, if we get a new government in Australia will Get a federal ipecac. And, and you know that is going to go a huge way to like Oh, integrity commission basically gonna go all the roads like out of control rotting from this billions and billions of dollars are being wasted and and it's retrospective they're gonna go back through it all fat the pandemic response has been atrocious as well, you know. And once people see its consequences starting to happen for bad behavior, that's when trust is going to come back up. Yeah. But also I also just think just just respect how we speak to each other, you know, how the politicians are speaking to each other, it's just gotten, it's just gotten more and more and more bitter. And, you know, obviously politics is always a game a word game, but it hasn't been that. And then the media, you know, the way they speak. And then on social media, the way we speak to each other, you know, some level of respect in how we speak to each other needs to come back into the mix. But, you know, when people are buying from businesses these days, they will only buy from businesses, they will only advocate or buy from brands that they believe in. That's 58%. On up. Yeah, I mean, that wasn't, if I look at last year's, it probably wasn't even a strong part of this. Every every year, they focus on little different bits and newer bits. Choosing a workplace 60% of said, What business, what the business does and how it is in the world matters. How you invest 60 64%, you know, making sure that you're a business doing good in the world, and 88% of institutional investors are looking more at ESG issues. So ESG remind me sustainable environment sustainable sustainability? Yeah. It's the sustainability bombs. But the the CEO is expected to lead. And they're expected to be the voice. They're not expected to get involved in politics, but they are expected to be informing policy and that surround jobs, economy, technology, automation, all those sorts of issues. So don't worry, because they know that they know no elected officials are they know, but they're truly operating at a global level. And we need we need people operating at a global level to fix the global problems. It's not a national issue anyway. So I've been I've been advocating for this for a long time. And I've had many arguments with people who said, Well, that's not the right way to be. And to me, it's the only way. It's the only way to be because, you know, a global business can make global changes that again, a matter for the entire world, right? Yep. Yeah. Another thing that they were talking about is, so the infamous, this, the social divide between the wealthy the high income and the low income. And you'll appreciate this one, especially Joe, we know that the gaps there. But when people are well informed, and they classify well informed as consults, three or more news sources daily, reads Business and Public Policy news. Seek quality information. So they consult news sources with which they disagree. And they check information against multiple sources. So these are things that we talk about all the time on the no show that just the basic rules. Like if if you are angry and furious and fighting against the world, that's fine. But if you can just do that, right, if you're just reading the Daily Mail every day, you're only getting one point of view, all media has a point of view. And it's not the journalists, it's the owner, the publisher, typically dictates that point of view. So the journalists are being hated, but actually look towards the publisher more than the journalist but read more than three. And you know, when I say read more than three, if you're, if they're all three in the same area? Yeah, it's all like how much is nearly 70% of our media is owned by the same person. So you have to work really hard to get out of a silo in Australia. I don't know if you do. I mean, from a digital perspective, everything's available online. Right? That is true, but what the most of the people that are reading that particular brand are looking for other news. Yeah, yeah. There's so much to be said about social pressure, social proof, right? Yep. Right. We are social creatures. And even if we know that 80% of the news is from one particular source, that the fact that everybody else is consuming. The same news actually, is what drives us to be attracted to the news, right? We want to know what your opinion is about this idea. We want to be with a group of four out of five rather than the one person who's disagreeing with the with the big idea. It's not it's not it's not easy to stand up and say, Well, this is I know, I know you all think this but this is what really is happening. The group doesn't suddenly get enlightened and go like, Oh, yes, you rate that much more likely to ask you to leave the meeting because you're making a making a theme, right? Yeah. I was thinking about the trust or the study about trust. And I, it occurred to me that it's more like we've found out about the issues about trust rather than this things that actually changed as in like, I was thinking about today's report, as you read it, and then applying it to the scenario that you that we are familiar with, with the 70s, for instance, it will still make sense. We don't trust politicians, we don't trust the media. You know, we feel companies are not to be trusted as much as this home, you know, like small businesses. I'm wondering how much of of a study like this actually, is to do with the fashion? Like the questions that are being asked, right? Wouldn't have been asked before? You know? I think having watched it evolve over the years, I think it's definitely changed. And so like, 70s, right? We were all basically exposed to one opinion, in the media, we might have had two or three sources, but there was still one opinion, and in the US is a classic case of that, right? Now, it's not even two opinions that oppose each other. It's two opinions that oppose each other in all of the extremities on the way out from that, and then, of course, operating within the silos of social media. So the distrust is, you know, when we look at the breaking down of democracy and the fees for democracy and having global meetings, or how to fix it, I think it's people living longer. We've got different demographics, existing coexisting that have never existed before who have different priorities, read different sources believe different things. You know, I think there's a lot of things. So this because this has been going on, this is why I value it, because it's been going on for a long time. I don't think it's just tapping into the information of the day, I think it's it's always said, we should be paying attention to this. And every year it gets more attention. If these were the barometer. And there's other trust reports that have come out, but this is the one that always gets me. It always, I always sort of sit down and spend some time thinking with it. But I said, leadership is the opportunity of leaders today. Yeah, I don't disagree with the insights that that have come out out of it. What I'm saying is that in terms of the the scene, right? Technology, and communication is changing the way now that you can you can you can then form more demarcations between the bands, it used to be, it used to be a lot easier, you would sit on this side or this side, and they wouldn't be spaced in the middle. So you'd have to kind of belong into either side. Yeah, what happens now is, if you do a search, literally on the most bizarre hobby in the world, you find a group. Right. And that's, that's kind of you know, that for me, that's the kind of stuff that's happening to the world that is also a bit different, as I was thinking about how, you know, all these all these numbers, in terms of the kind of trust and engagement that has happened, it it is, it could be a result of the evolution as well of, of learning those skills, how to engage, you know, like, like, like, unfortunately, the ones who are going to be the most untrustworthy are the ones who have cried wolf too many times. And I think politicians have learned to get your attention. And then you find out, you know, that they if they were lying, or they didn't quite represent that correctly, the media is the same way as well. They keep doing that they, they've learned now how to get your attention. But they've disappointed you more often. So it's, it's it really is I find, it's more like, yeah, they've learned one part of the skill, which is to get your attention. And unfortunately, the flip side of that is going to be now that I got your attention, you're more likely to be disappointed with what do you what what do you hear in the end, you know, hey, oh, I just think in the middle, there's this there used to be this kernel kernel of news and knowledge and information, right. And then we still set on these opposing sides, you know, whichever political parties are, yeah, yeah. But then last week with, with Tim and he was talking about before that we lived in these small communities, and if you, if you're an annoying person within that community, the community would punish you, and then we change your behavior could come back in, but this globalization, this digital sort of field of knowledge and information. We haven't been able to make the adjustment into that and hold on to what we value as a society and I think I think that it was a really interesting point. I think that's part of the part of the challenge. We don't know how to navigate this. Well, we don't really like it. I mean, if you think about what, who is really doing that right now, and they're not very popular because they do it? It's China. Right? China's doing that. This behavior is not good. Sorry. Yeah. You've been canceled. That is actually the scaled up version of the village. Which people are unreal very, very uncomfortable with everybody wants to be able to be slightly deviant. You know, do you know there's a website and there's there's a website and ladies paint a men pay or someone pays money to watch some lady fully clothed, sit on birthday cakes. And someone is making a living out of doing that. Yeah, just sitting on the cake. Also, I'd like to show you, Jamie's cucumber that has just come out of the garden, beautiful. Look at the size of that. Well used to be stopped, someone's scrolling through their feed. Like when they're delicious, do you leave it on the bench? And everyone just slices it as the guy passed? So you don't use it in gin and tonic? Like most people here, would you? Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. And the tagline for this engaging show will be Philippa brought out a cucumber. And what she did next will blow your mind. To lady sitting on cakes is awesome. I've been looked, please, if you haven't ever done it, spend some time on Edelman Trust Barometer. It's it's an easy read, you can look just the trust 10 You can look at that. But it's like the climate crisis, right? If we want to fix this, we've got to come together as a community and fix it. And I'd like to think that we have the courage to be able to do that. So yeah, any other news that you guys want to sort of talk about? Before we go that I just gonna say that I know, people look at politicians, governments, and all those people being low on the levels of trust is being a bad thing. Maybe it's not. Yeah, maybe we should just get better people. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, we really, we really have got the bottom of the barrel and the countries around the world. They couldn't go any lower. Dave. What's that prime more modules scam or whatever it's called. I mean, it's pretty spectacular. If you want to make the case for the end of the white man's dominance of the world, it's been made all over the world right now. Yeah, like, seriously? I'm not gonna guarantee any other alternative as well. Because, you know, I think as as, as some agents have shown you were capable of being as bad as well. So, you know, the countries have pretty high trust, apart from Seoul, South Korea and Japan. There's a comedian in Australia. No, oh, what's the guy he was in? Crazy Rich Asians. He's just kind of Australian. Ronnie Ronnie. Yeah. Ronnie Chang, he was talking about, he was talking about governments and stuff. And he just said, just put an Asian bunch of people in charge of every government. They're just getting they get the job done work long hours, not cause any fuss or bother. And just and then, you know, not be in the news. Just get the job done. And that's it. Yeah. The kids clearly working. Because like, in some Yeah. I think you know, yeah, well, at the moment, if that's going to clearly be a better option and the clowns we have in charge now. I think it's time for women. The future is female, though the world's nurturers you know, the world needs to be nurtured right now. And yeah, women and and men men that I would never push me out. No, you know, at least you know, 50% representation from a body 1% Well as as an Audi. Lita said, he believes in women, you know, achieving but not at the expense of men. On International Women's Day, on International Women's Day, so the other the other news, of course, was Neil Young will threaten to Spotify and said either removed my music or Joe Rogan's podcast. And in response, Spotify removes Neil Young's music. So I actually thought, you know, obviously, there's a big contract there with Joe Rogan. And that's why they don't want to remove his podcast, but I don't know I kind of felt a little bit disappointed that some of the other big superstars didn't stand up and sort of support Neil Young on that consequence. Well, I mean, the consequences. Part of the problem was Neil Young has written some other checks that were a little bit unpopular as well, because he was really getting on about why you need to, you need to have just pure music and he doesn't enable for the longest time he didn't want to be streaming As music as the quality was not going to be good enough you have to have this super high bandwidth everything or else or whatever it is right so he he kind of established himself as a little bit of a fuzzy pot in another area and so when he came up with this it's like, oh, it's Neil again. And and if you're going to take a marginal artist and then try to threaten the mainstream business in New Years, not the guy and Beyonce would have far more luck. Oh, Gaga? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, right. Alright, so what do you guys been watching what's been distracting? You know, Phillip richer last week before school goes back next week. What? What's been captured? Generation l Ah, now we've been watching succession and just oh my god. Ah, it's just dynamite. It's like you go on, that's Gina Rinehart, or that's Murdoch. Oh, no, but now it's the prison and it's just all the characters are just fabulous characters. Yeah, and it's just it's just really well written. I think we've gone through so Ted Lesko was one so succession is this been these holidays that are kind of in a locked up and not really. And then Ted lesser was last times locked down. And then the last one before that was shits Creek was the month before that. So we're going to think about each of the lockdowns all six and a half of them as the show that we watched. Yeah, we're halfway through sheets correct now and I'm getting a bit bored. Push True or true. Yeah, what Episode What are you up to? Episode One season four? No. Yeah. Really? Alright, I got a job. What about you? Well, currently, I am watching the Ozark he's we're gonna start he's gonna watch it all again with me. So I watch it. I'm Jason Bateman. So yeah, it has it has it has a little bit of potential to be a kind of breaking bad actually. It's very it's very interesting in character. It does a character formation and stories. What happens? Yeah. And the other thing you guys need to watch is a lot of cats does countdown. Anything that Joe does it does countdown 10 Cats countdown. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I just did the same. Eight out of 10. Cats does countdown. It's a it's a is it a quiz show? Show? Like this show with a format. Yeah. He's gonna format and choose saucy. wenches with little you know, little perk, girls. Yeah, that girl's got to say at least really smart. The smart really smart girl. Smart. Gorgeous. So yeah. The game, the game sure that you have to check out because it's so ridiculous is I literally just told you I think I think it's called I literally just told you it's ah, yeah, yeah, I literally just told you. It's a it's a game show. And the way the game shows structured is as they're talking about stuff. There'll be asking questions about what they just said a while ago. So it'll be it's, and sometimes it's so ridiculous because the information is so clear. And it's so that they've had some real doozies to show that I don't know how they find people who are capable of missing what's happening in real time. But they really because Jimmy Carr or Alan Carr, Jimmy Carr, right. Hilarious too. Well, one of my memories of these pandemic time will be introducing our children to wrong humor. So yeah, exactly. They both gonna have a bit of you know, they're gonna have that bit of wrong sense of humors. That's their character. Right. And it's encouraged, obviously. So we would watch some interesting ones. But anyway, we decided last Friday to watch the hangover with them. And the other thing the hangover, that's really funny. And so obviously, tonight, we'll be hanging over to but I also watched out respect for the first time just recently, it's up on iTunes. Have you seen Have you seen it Jennifer Lawrence for No, I haven't. We're supposed to take the kids from school to see it last December. But now yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's up on I mean, phenomenal performance. I'm surprised. A lot of the story about Aretha actually surprised me. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. But it's still a fantastic story, but well worth the watch. And just Yeah, Jennifer Lawrence talent like oh my god, Jennifer Hudson. W Yes. I knew I knew I knew I got it wrong. Lars that'd be incredible performance. Exactly. And then you'd be in trouble for doing blackface Of course. Yeah. You gotta be doing that. Alright. Philip, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed it. I thought we'd be here for a lot less time but but it never happens. So I will be uploading this up onto my podcast uncommon courage as quickly as I can once this is over. We're also going to have a week off next week because it's Chinese New Year. So gone sci fi to all of our Chinese friends if you're celebrating. Yeah. And yeah, just really want to say thanks. Thanks both of you for being here and being open and having a great chat about stuff. Yeah, if I can just say something to the listener right now. Thank you for listening to this podcast on Spotify, rather than Joe Rogan's. Exactly. We had much better than Joe. Ah, that's, yeah, that's not these. These shows. Greg goes. Yeah, this guy. This guy's awesome. We love this show. Alright guys, I will see you in a couple of weeks. Bye. Alright, see you guys.