20 things that shit us, must we really endure?

What annoys the hell out of you, but seems to continue regardless? Whether it’s other people’s digital noise, to the heart-breaking impact of the digital divide, WhatsApp shenanigans, small writing on products for those with failing eyes, to influencer culture and social media rage – and that’s not everything. We covered A LOT in this podcast and have fodder for another one. 

There is so much we put up with and the majority of us say nothing. We endure. Isn’t it time we said no more? Isn’t it time we demand brands to stop doing what they’re doing, because it’s a terrible user experience? Not to mention that family at the table next to us with an iPad blaring to keep their kid quiet? No no no!!

There are so many directions we could have taken this podcast, but here’s our first round of 20. We’d love to know what you agree with, what you disagree with and what you would add onto the list. 

Come and leave a comment on the Facebook Group, Uncommon Courage https://www.facebook.com/groups/uncommoncourageaninvitation 

Connect with Steve Johnson 

On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevejohnson88/ 

Phillipa Edwards 

On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardsphillipa/ 

And Skunkwork Productions https://skunkworksproductions.com.au/ 

John Vincent Gordon 

On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnvgordon/ 

And Expat Choice https://www.expatchoice.asia/ 

To get in touch with me, Andrea Edwards

Websites https://andreatedwards.com/ and https://uncommon-courage.com/ 

My book Uncommon Courage, An Invitation mybook.to/UncommonCourage

And the workbook mybook.to/UncommonCourageAction

And my Facebook Group Uncommon Courage https://www.facebook.com/groups/442905877003333 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Welcome to developer Louise Edwards. Hello, go Johnny otherwise known as John Gordon or John Vincent Gordon resident, my lovely husband, Steve Johnson. Good morning. Alright, so what we are here to do today and I, I haven't got the title of this yet, but I, I'm kind of working on the things that showed us that we accept. And I know every single person on this planet has got these things. And everything I'm trying to do is about trying to encourage people to think about things, right things that matter, rather than just accepting and ignoring. And so basically, what we're going to do is we will come up with five ideas we may have may have some overlap, but we may not. And we're all going to go through and talk about the things that she asks in our lives that we don't accept, but sometimes can't change anything. Can we write it? Can I just can I just sort of make a mention to the non Australians out there. When Australians talk about things that shipped them, it means annoy them, so it doesn't make them physically through their pants. It just means things that annoy them. Oh, yeah, you forget about those things. A little bit of Ozzy lingo translation there for everyone who, who is not a proud Australian? Or just someone who's a bit more classy. Yeah. Yeah. All that. Alright, so do you want me to kick it off so that I can sort of set the scene and give you guys a feel, because we obviously haven't practiced any of this. So my number one thing shoots me is ads that appear in the middle of video. So you can be on Facebook or wherever you're watching your ads. And right in the middle of this ad for this crappy thing that you've never shown any interested in buying or even thinking about sort of pops in and and you're in the middle of watching a story about a small animal that was born with legs that don't work. And there's these amazing humans that are coming in, and they're going to fix this animal. So it can, it can walk, right, and so you're in an emotional state. And then some poxy Ed comes in the middle. And I honestly honestly don't understand there are businesses out there. think that that's a good idea, because all they do is piss off the customers or potential customers? Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's, it's funny, you say that, because, you know, it has to change, because we've been, we've been experiencing this for like, a good four or five years, probably even less. Yeah, I can't tell you exactly. But it's so prolific and so annoying, and it shifts everyone off so much the whole ecosystem needs to change. Yeah, you know, and that's sort of what's happening with, with analytics, and, you know, huge amount of, you know, machine learning, and I, I reckon, in another 12 months to 18 months, we're not going to see those sort of ads, well, maybe that's a little bit premature, or there's two things I find with them. Back in the olden days, when we were used to, you know, the television, and then television would have a show, they have little segments. So the ads would make sense, because it'd be a scene change or something like that. So you weren't kind of pulled out of the out of the emotion of the show it kind of a little, little bit of a gap there, as you add, and off, you go again. And the other thing is, and everyone talks about mental health and all the rest of it, it's actually really bad psychologically, if your mental health especially girls, female brains, and all the rest of it, all the stuff that goes in our heads, when we watch a movie, like a chick flick, they call it. And if we watch it without ads, our our cortisol levels come down, and our serotonin levels go up. And so it's actually good for people to watch a movie all the way through. And it helps with our mental health, basically. So these sorts of ads give you a smash of cortisol when you're least expecting it, and it pushes you back up into a stress response. So it's actually there's so many reasons why they shouldn't do it. And that's, that's like a yeah, here we go. How about stop it? Yeah. Just stopping. Yeah. Yeah, I certainly don't want to ever buy from any brand that does it. You know, I'm always sort of chasing the impossible dream. So channels like, or platforms like YouTube, etc. You know, they monetize by driving traffic through ads. So I love the idea of things changing. I just can't see it happening. I think, I know. I know why it's your number one bugbear because where we're currently located, the quality of the ads are absolutely shocking. And they're not even English. And they're not even in English as well. But pay money. Take your choice live in a foreign country. You kind of have to go with it, but they are particularly crap. Yeah. I mean, just like if I get one more, I will never spend another cent with Lazada because if they send me if they advertise to me one more time. I'm going to scrape to sell Lazada it's like shopping Online. Okay, I'm about using I see when you came to visit Australia, and it's just the things we get used to all the, the betting ads, and you said you were astounded by it. And so we just got so used to it. And now it's it's 1,000% more. Every ad break is an ad betting, there's so many ads for betting. I find it scary in Australia. The fact if you want to watch for the replay is either sponsored by a betting app. Yeah. Or a junk food brand. Yep, McDonald's KFC. And the scary thing, and we've had this conversation before, the scary thing is, is, you know, kids nowadays, they don't just watch sport, they watch sport and think they can't watch a game without putting a bet on. And that's all these ads that are just smacking you in the face everywhere you go. And it's interesting to Steve, because when you think of YouTube ads, like popup ads, they don't seem to be programmatic. They don't seem to be targeted at you. Whereas when you're online and you're doing some browsing online, and you get an ad within the environment online, normally it's targeted at you like it's something you've just looked at, or something that you'll been researching. And that's sort of like the different category, isn't it? So these are popup ads. I think when I'm listening to what we're all saying here, the pop up ad in YouTube shuts us. But the programmatic ad is another one that we can talk about, which also shuts it, but it maybe doesn't shut us so much. Yeah, you're just gonna go with your with your first idea, Jenny. Oh, let's change gears. You know what I'm really shoots me the amount of print collateral that still ends up in my bloody mailbox. And I always throw it out. I never look at it. I don't care what it is. I will not look at print. I mean, it's a dilemma. Because it's not just my mailbox. It's the other 200 people in my condo. And then it's the other 20,000 condos. It just it's just unfathomable to think of the amount of paper waste that's going through the post. It should be banned. Like that form of advertising does not work. It's it's the numbers game advertising. Let's put out 100,000 leaflets. And maybe 100 People will take the $5 author that shoots me. Yeah. We don't get it. We don't get any of that here. Or not that I've seen. Have you seen stuff? When you say here your meaning Thailand, Thailand? Yeah, we I don't I don't see any of that coming through my mind. Mine's in Singapore. Yeah. And I've only just sort of come back to Australia for a few months working remotely. And I don't have a mailbox. So I don't really know. Phil, but do you get a lot of sort of mail marketing mail still in Australia? Hyper mail? No, it's a lot less than it used to be a lot less. Right. Yeah. So what would you I think what we have now is it's more localized. So you'll get we get occasionally magnets from the local world local plumber, or electrician or the local real estate agent, or put in a cardboard thing. So we don't get those great swathes of advertising material much. But in Australia, if we're talking about advertising, do you know it's it's legal to tell lies and political advertising? You don't have to tell the truth. Yeah. So yeah, it's like, yeah, it's, it's crazy. This, it's not the Wild West. It feels like sometimes, but one of the maybe that's very Singapore centric, you know, but yeah, I don't think it is. I think it still happens far too much. But one of the things you can do if you get paper mail is at least put it in a compost bin not in the rubbish in Singapore. I'm sorry, I'm being Singapore century. We don't have compost bins readily available. Yeah, but we don't need in our condo and some modern condo with with 200 apartments. Yeah, there's no red bin blue bin yellow bin. Yeah, we're getting a purple bean soon. What's the purple bin? For glass? Oh, cool. Yeah. Is there one for electronics? At your home at your place by the end of the week? Really? All the broken glasses. Yes. I was thinking more empty wine bottles. Oh no, that Sonia COVID thing that's a COVID thing and that shit COVID Run. Alright, Philip, what's your first one? Okay, I'm going to bring the the tone down because that's what I'm good at. You know, it shoots me. You get in the shower. And we're all you know, we're not spring chickens. I'm visualizing please don't visual. Oh goodness. No. And we all wear glasses. Take your glasses off. Yeah, why can't they write shampoo and conditioner on the containers so you can read them when your glasses are off? rehearing Yes. Oh yeah, man at times of washing We're here with conditioner because everything looks the same. It's ridiculous. That's so funny. Steven. I don't have that problem because we don't have any here. Well, I was gonna say I mean yeah, I'm with you, Philip when I get my shampoo conditioner mixed up. All over the place for the day. Like my left and my right hair. What about your front hair? Yeah. Did you have to get the fecal matter out of the bead? Number one, I haven't got fecal matter in. Apparently it's quite the place of fecal matter. Oh, well, apparently not this one. But yeah, thanks. Thanks for sharing toothbrushes in the bathroom. Apparently a full of fecal matter because when you flush the toilet, okay, this little poof it toothbrush. Just, you know, an FYI. We get this from Can I just think I just I'm a deep thinker, Steven, so much time on your hands. That's a revolting idea. All right, Steve, what's your first rub? Well, I mean, look, I interruption advertising like, annoys me frustrates me. But what I have noticed in the last I think, since COVID times is suddenly people think seem to think it's absolutely okay to either have a zoom call or a video call, or even just a voice call in public and talk about their latest p&l talk about their customer, like realizations, and I just can't stand. I can't stand it. Recently, I was at hospital I was in the waiting room. And this absolute tool sits there. And just for everyone's quiet, this guy's going off Full Tilt, walk on the beach, most mornings. And there's a dude that obviously living here for a while, and he decides that's the time in the morning when his peace and quiet for him to do a whole bunch of calls. And it's just one of these really sort of like, frustrating things that people say thing is all right. I mean, you wouldn't sit next to somebody and sort of like shout in their ear. And yet these folks seem to think it's alright. Yeah, that's one of the things that I can't stand is just being, you know, just being aware of people around you. And that goes for using devices in public for stop. Yeah, that's where we've gone from Me, too. We know from waiting me. Yeah. Yeah, I want to do this. No, not my problem. That's your problem. Also, you get the response in public, like, you know, sometimes, look, we live in a digital world we've been born. Well, we haven't. But the generation before us had been born with the phone in their hand. Every so often, you do need to sort of look at your phone, like you might be out with your look, I might we might all be together somewhere. One day, after COVID we might all be together somewhere. And, and you've got your phone and you know, do you put on the table? I mean, with guys and girls, you can chuck it in your bag. Sorry, but I don't know got I've got a man bag, I can bring my man bag. But sometimes I do need to look at it and watch it to be off. It's when the person on the table says, John, you're not here. You're not present, put the find out. And it's like, well hang on a minute. I just need like, with you telling me that I could have looked at that I could have got it out of the way. I'm not going to be back present. But now we're talking about how not present that shuts me. Yeah, I am. I tried to turn my phone upside down on a table when I'm with people and try to ignore it. Because you know, I could be on my phone 2024 hours a day, seven days a week, and still not be able to keep up with everything that's going on. So I just turned it upside down. And I get what your friends are saying but also every now and again. You know, yesterday, we were out for lunch. So every now and again. I looked at my phone just to make sure the boys weren't trying to talk to us, right? It's perfectly acceptable, but but that group of people together everyone on their phones just doesn't just doesn't make any sense to me. Alright, so for my next one. So we've all gone through first round. Yeah, yep. Yeah. So for my next one is actually an extension of Steve's one other people's digital noise. And Steve knows this one very, very well, because it makes him very anxious. So other people's digital noise can be sitting in a restaurant and someone some kids watching a video without any headphones on because the parents want to keep him happy or happy. But we all have to listen to it on a plane people doing people do video calls in public. You know, we it's not just hearing them talk. It's also hearing the person they're talking to talking. And you know, then you go to places like America where you can't walk into any breakfast buffet without a television on. Yeah, every way you look, you know in digital noise or you go into those sports bars wherever sporting event in the country is on and it's like all these screens and all of them, all of them. I've got noise coming out of them and I just there's just so much noise. That is the point of a sports bar. Sorry, I'm going to be pedantic you go to a sports bar to watch sports. So it's the it's the all the different that sports at the same time, like how can you watch your sport and be fully present in the sport that you're watching? Well, it all the other sport is being shouted over the speakers. So that's just the that's just years of practice of negotiating sports bars and going there and, and tuning out to the AFL because who gives a crap and tuning into the rugby? So that just comes with practice? I don't know if that's a male female thing. But yeah, right. I'm not sure that's the best analogy because the idea of going to a sports fight is to get that digital noise, but you're selected digital noise. Like I said, if you can kick out the AFL then life becomes easier. Yeah, fair enough. But um, yeah, but for me digital noise, the amount of digital noise that we have to deal with other people's noise. I just I'm, you know, I used to be nice about it. And I or I used to not say anything, but then I just sit there the whole time just burning with this anger. Right. And now, pleasure to be with when that happens. Yeah, it makes rotation. It impacts us, right? And our joy of the evening, so I'm yeah, now I will say something to the parents or I ought to, or I'll get Steve to or I'll say to the waiting staff or the stewardess on a plane or the story of the steward. Yeah, no, I, we were polite in that situation. And a lot of people also don't realize like with microphones, you've got a microphone, you don't have to shout, is the microphone makes your voice louder? In our phones, apparently, because I'm such a techno amazing person. Not. Apparently, there's one of those in there as well. So you can talk really quietly on your phone, and no needs to hear you. Yeah. But then you wouldn't be getting attention. And that's what it's all about. The thing that shocks me is if you go out for dinner with the kids, and you did this our seem to be well, let's not pretend we're that great. But we've tried our kit. We don't you don't have technology, the table. And if we're going out for dinner, joining the conversation, other parents will bring their technology, because that's what they've done. But then there's also televisions within not a sports bar seat, but like a restaurant, and in the family kind of restaurants. And they'll have you know, mainstream media channels blaring. And so you're actually distracted by what you want to what you came to do is with us have conversation with people that you you know, want to have dinner with, with tech. Yeah, the tech at the table, but also the, you know, the channel seven, whatever is going on there as well. So yeah, it's the noise bits. It's also the distraction of it. You just can't. It's like we're all becoming ADHD because we just can't hold focus, because there's just so much stuff coming us all the time. Yeah, I recommend more basic than that. I think this is a new thing. I think it's basics around like, it's not okay, it's never been okay to sit next to someone and talking to the phone at the top of your voice. Now you just got a video, you've got an extra arm to that with all the extra technology and videos, whether it be YouTube or make watching Peppa Pig, it sees every kid I wouldn't mind so much. But most kids now nowadays seem to be into Peppa Pig, which is the worst thing to actually have going on in the background. But it's never been. And I don't understand why people would think it is okay. I remember us being at one of our favorite hotels here during the summer and we sat outside this cafe and there's this dude watching a video on football and went up to us excuse me, we got the headphones is or what? Have you got any headphones? Like what the look on his face is like how dare you? So he just closed it down and walked off? was like, Dude, I'm not in the wrong. I'm like, You're so right. I don't want to hear about yet. Whatever BS it is you're listening to. So I think that's a fundamental. That's a fundamental human like basic manners. Yeah. Yeah, we seem to have lost those. Alright, Johnny, what's your next one? Sorry, I was just thinking very deeply about what, what, what we were just talking about. And I was just going into a response, but I'll move on, and I go nuts. It's okay. Now the moment that I just in the moment, it's just like, I remember it used to be all about, you know, it was the three screens. It was like television, your desktop, and your mobile. And the third screen was the mobile that was like, Oh, my God, then we got you know, like all that in store advertising, which is also sort of programmatic, like you can walk into a store, and all of a sudden you're watching an ad that specifically for you, because it knows that John Gordon's walked into the store to pick up my IP address, and it's selling me jeans, because I'm looking for jeans or whatever it might be. It just goes back to when we did not have any technology and we used to have to go home, make a phone call and say I'll meet you on Thursday at a cafe and we'll catch up and then you'd catch up and it'd be great and you'll be there together talking together and maybe we just need to look at what the digital etiquette is in relationship to what it was in past generation, and start really understanding that maybe well, it's not about shaming people because it shuts us off. But maybe it's just not appropriate to walk along in Westfield Shopping Mall in Bondi Junction in Sydney and be having a deep and meaningful with the cousin in Vietnam. You know, because that is happening all the time. I saw that today. So just walking along, let's say having an I just looked over for a moment. And I could just say that wasn't prying. I wasn't eavesdropping. It was just in my face. Like she was just walking in front of me. And she was talking to someone wherever they were talking to those differently an older person could be mom, it could have been an auntie could have been sister, whoever. But it was like, how can you have a meaningful conversation when you're walking through? Westville? You know, like, just yeah, anyway, shits me. Sorry, what? Let's move on. I think one here that is probably not universal. But I'm still getting a lot of spam on SMS. I still get like, do you want to tutor? It's like, No, I don't want it to that junk mail report, spam or whatever it is. And I, I do it all the time. But it just doesn't seem to work. Like does anyone else still get SMS spam message? I and it's all about, you've signed up for something at some point, you're giving your telephone number and you've missed the box to tick. Please do not send me anything. Do not share my details if you miss one of those boxes. No. royally routed? Absolutely. And maybe Singapore betting? And I you know want to bet on traditional into that? No, absolutely not. I think it paints down to the unsubscribing to go to the unsubscribing as long convoluted process that is deliberately hard. It's really hard to unsubscribe from an SMS. Normally it says to unsubscribe, reply to a different number. And you've got to like remember that number? And then you got to remember what the unsub is because it's normally like 396 unsub to four J Yeah. I'm not gonna do it. But it does give me the shit. Really? What about what about politicians in Australia? Just somehow he got everyone's phone number. I don't know. I know he did it. Dodgy anti Vaxxer people and he just sent messages to everybody. So everyone just replied. You can imagine the fruity language from most people towards him. Oh, my Lord. And I don't know. Yeah, exactly. I don't even know if I was I don't even know if you could opt out. Actually, I haven't we haven't had one for a while. But yeah, it's completely so we all thought it was completely SMS. Filipo SMS. Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's so bizarre, because like SMS, you know, just just as a very quick aside, many, many years ago, when I was living in Singapore, and one of my first startups was an SMS aggregation platform, and we built it, and it was great. And for about a year, sold all these campaigns to a big brands, you know, wanted to send out 100,000 SMS to people, you know, to buy a hot pot in Singapore 3995. And then the government decided that, you know, okay, this is really bad for you know, we need to do opt ins, and you need to get, you know, double opt ins and blah, blah, blah, blah, totally destroyed that business. Let's see you later. That really shouldn't be off. I can imagine. Yeah, I mean, here I am saying, you know, SMS spam shoots me, but you know, I was the one doing it. First of all, back in 2008. In Singapore. Yeah. But, but I remember those days and all the technologies that were being developed to do it, and they and they still being used today, right? Yeah. But that's another part about being in Asia is the rules. Like in the EU, it's illegal to do those sorts of things. But in Asia, it's sort of like anything goes because for me, it's the same with email marketing, exactly the same. I'm constantly being added to email marketing lists. And I there's one, maybe two that I'm interested in receiving, and the rest of them, I'm constantly unsubscribing and saying, I never subscribed to this, hoping that at some point, they'll be punished because of the platform saying, you've got too many people who are saying that they they didn't subscribe to this. Oh, yes. But yeah, I'm hoping on that. But yeah, I mean, any anything to do with interruption marketing, I just, I just I does, it doesn't make any sense to me and people still to this day. So you got to do it. No, you don't you just peel off your audience. And it was what you said at the start of this session, you know, the podcast that it's all about, you know, brand experience. And you know, brands are really causing jeopardy for themselves. The more they do this, and I think they're trying to change as quickly as possible as soon as the technologies become available. And that comes down to personalized messaging. It's much better when somebody sends you a message message and says, Hey, John, not sure if you'd like this, but because you were a customer of x, y and Zed. Would you be open to you know, look at this. Yeah, sure. Yeah. More personal, right. Yeah. I think that's where we're going though. Yeah. Make the people of the brand, the voice of the business people the brand out on social media, and they talking about the business and the product. In the customers and telling the stories of the company, it's that is a far more effective strategy and you're not pissing your customers off, and the people build the loyalty with your audience. You know, it's just it's been, you know, that's what the whole content marketing revolution in social leadership revolution is all about. And brands don't seem to get it and marketing departments certainly aren't getting it. Just Yeah, it's crazy. What what's going on? It's so noisy, what's going on out there in the world? Right. And we're justice, isn't it? Because everything said short term, there's no, there's no long term thinking anymore. It's all about the short term short term, the budget, you have to get the budget by the end of the month, you have to do everything you can for this month, this next month that there's no, yeah, yeah. And that's part of the problem of what we're facing now. And knowing thinking long term, which is, you know, if we let the, you know, the industries that have doubled in the last 20 years are going to double again in the next 20 years. And we certainly are facing a climate catastrophe. And if you're only looking at three quarters ahead, you're sort of not really paying attention to that growth and what it potentially means for the earth. You know, it's just like, yeah, we've got our heads in the sand, but it's good one, Johnny? No, that's what sheets is. Philippi What's your next one? Well, as the great man, Albert Einstein's once said, everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. And I think that's a very fine quote. Because there's a lot of people that think they're very clever, and they're making sound more clever to make them set themselves appear more clever, but what they're doing is they're leaving a lot of people behind. So as a person, I do technology, because I have to, I don't love it. And I just want it to work. But everything seems to be made difficult, incompatible, or just and what you're saying unsubscribing for things, they complicate things. Still, it's a deliberate ploy. To make things as difficult as possible to unsubscribe, you have to buy the new gadget, you have to do this, that and that. The problem with that is and these other people up here thinking they're too clever for words, creating things that are not compatible, and that everyone has to keep spending money. We've got this Kreher like, crazy Digital Divide now. So I teach it when I'm in Dandenong. And we, you know, I come from Melbourne used to be the world's most livable city, and it's now the world's most lockdown city. So we've had like two years, it's been hell on earth. And the digital divide has never been more obvious. So Jamie's at one private school where all the kids are engaged, they all have equipment, they all have their own bedrooms, I love everything. And I'm in another school where they there's a kid in a two bedroom place, they don't have computers that computers don't work. And then you think of all the oldies and all this informations coming out from COVID about what to do be certain the other thing and it's all coming through technology and all the all these don't know how to use it. So there's like 5% of the population that do technology and think it's the best thing. And then there's the people making money out of it. And then there's the rest of us just trying to we're just rounding dreams, drowning in this stuff. And every time we talk to him, like we had to have COVID certificates here, so everyone has to have it on their phone. And of course, surprise, it wasn't thought through from the federal government so then all the oldies could who didn't have phones and had to go and get a printout from Medicare. They're all too afraid to go outside of their houses because of it's just been a disaster. So they need to make technology that works for everybody and the middle 5% of little nasties that level that stuff. They can go off and have a fancy pants land over there. But they it needs to be for the for the general public, for the oldies for the kids that can't afford it. And the families that don't just can't do it. Imagine having eight kids in a two bedroom house in lockdown and eight kids trying to learn eight devices, and you got one wage coming in. It's like it's out of control. So yeah, did that that sheets me and there's no reason for it. There is no reason to be fixed. It's been such a heartbreaking part of the story of these times. I mean, around the world in developing countries, like the amount of kids they've lost to education now they'll never come back. Yeah. And young girls are being sold off into child marriage because they just need to fund the fund the family through the times of crisis. But yeah, the digital divide the vaccine, divide the digital divide all of it right just to watch the incredible suffering that's happening around the world. And you take away a child's education, you take away their future and in you know, in a developed country like Australia, to me, there's just is no, there's no excuse. No, there's no deliberate policy. Yeah. Oh, it's offside. All the money siphons up. And it's deliberate policy. Yeah. And it's making sure there is an underclass and it's a That's disgraceful. Yeah, there is enough money. Yeah, it's time for you know, it's time for us to be policy, as you know, those 47 billionaires whose properties one to $6 million a week between them, right, you know, just that one week of earning could get a technology and into the hands of every child in Australia. So those kids have a future. Yeah, or an air purifier into every state school, or tutors or get wages increased for nurses and doctors and teachers and ambos. You know, it's, it's, it's got to stop. Sorry, it's Dave, you probably had somebody say, no, no, no, I'm just listening. And I was just thinking, you know, something that sort of not so much the digital divide, but you know, the economic divide, you know, it's like it's really it's really shitty. To experience coming back into Sydney for a little while working remotely and to have to like line up and get these rapid antigen test rats rat tests, whereas I came from Singapore where you went down into into the mailbox where all that paper peripheral crap was that shoots me and get through all the paper. And what does the government in Singapore? Do? They just send you five art tests, antigen rapid tests, so much more eloquent than the rap test in Australia. But that that divide that economic divide the people that can't afford to pay, it's$35. Well, I just bought some yesterday, actually, luckily, and though it was $20 for two so okay, that's yeah, that's the best I've been able to do. But if you're if you're like, on, you know, in unemployment benefits, and you've got a family and got the kids and your dad's just got a job at some restaurant, but you've got to like do a rat test twice a week, it's like 2030 bucks a week might be more common thing, either. They actually said they do not want the private market to be left out of this. It was a deliberate thing. They also didn't order any until they put out like two weeks ago on the quiet they did a bit of a federal asking for tenders. And then suddenly, all these people that have ordered all their rat, because rat T 's test are suddenly they've just disappeared out of out of the marketplace and artists fill up. But that's the crux of the matter, right? Government attitude towards it. I don't know. I don't know when the Thai government. So we live in Thailand, I don't know when the government decided it's okay for the private sector to bring in these rapid antigen tests. It's a part of literally daily daily life here. The boys have to until today, they had to do two a week and submit their results to be allowed on campus. And we have to do the same thing. So I think it's very, very, it's a very curious decision by the Australian Government to limit the access to these rapid antigen tests. Meanwhile, people are making out like bandits. So we trade with a company. I'm on their mailer. I got a flyer last week. Hey, Steve, special price for you. 2895. I happened to have a call. And the CEO, the same company was on the same day. I was like, you know, we get these for two bucks here. And they're like, You're kidding. This is the best product 28 bucks is that is a good price. So it's a real pig in a poke. So the cost price for rapid antigen tests must be below $1. Yeah, if anyone is flogging them for like 20 Another I mean, it is daylight robbery. And that's something I think the Australian Government needs to step in. You need to be careful because when governments pull the trigger on getting emergency procurement, it can go Zack Yep. So the problem is the government didn't procure them, but one of their biggest sponsors, having Norman seem to know last September to have them in place and ordered in bulk. So they were one of the first ones selling rats when it when we have them, or you can look at it another way. I mean, maybe Harvey Norman weren't tip the wink. Maybe someone took a courageous business. Yeah, maybe that's true now. And so we think this is dying. And so we're gonna get out ahead of it. Now there's a there is a government in Europe that's being held up as an example of bad procurement practice right now, because they worked out at some point in the midst of all the COVID stuff. They had two weeks of PPE stuff for their frontline workers. Okay, so the leader of that government say, apparently there was a meeting says go and buy as much as you can. So they did. And in the space of two weeks, they bought enough PPE equipment to last for 35 years. The trouble is, it all had a shelf life of two years. Oh, no, that's, yeah, there's a whole heap of rats that expired. This isn't just test this is God. Oh, my God. So we happen to know somebody who was on the project to try and give back some of this stuff and try me because it was north of three in Australian dollars, it was north of 6 billion with a be Australian dollars. So I kind of I think individual governments need to sort of be held accountable for that. It's confusing the fact that we can walk in, throw a rock in any direction here, you hit five different pharmacies, and we can walk in and get tests anything from 60 bucks. I think the most we've ever paid is like 300 bucks, something like that. So that's something I think that's that the government needs to get a handle. Yeah, but they don't want to. So it seems universal that this subject should sort of us no matter what country we're in. Yeah. Because management around the world around COVID is just crazy. I look, these tests are, you know, these tests typically have sort of 60 between 60 and 70% accuracy. So they're not the gold they're not the silver bullet, but you play the numbers. Right. And it's better than a poke in the eye with a with a Sharpie. Yeah. I think it also keeps society safer, right. So we take a test. If we're going to go out and meet people or like to a branch or something this morning, we'll do a test because we don't want to put ourselves into a situation where we're putting other people at risk, right? Yep. And so most people do that. And you can do that when it's an affordable thing. Absolutely. If you can't afford it, you just be constantly putting your friends and family at risk. Right? And it's at anxiety, Andrea as well. It's like, if you if everyone's got access to them it everyone comes down. Yeah, the health minister was saying it's because people are stockpiling. It's not true at all. Today, as of today, all people on a condition cards should be able to get two free tests or 10, free tests or some amount, there's no tests to be had anywhere well, so they do all these announcements. And then all these people can't get that and then it brings it and people get more anxious, or anxious than they do another announcement. And then And then suddenly, all the rats are disappearing from you know, a Queensland Rail and people saying, but I think it's just people and this is all this confusion and they never ever say you know what we stuffed up you know, what, we probably should have ordered all that Pfizer when we were approached two years ago probably should have gone to read last June when the unions were saying get onto the rats. Now they're saying you know, the third booster they didn't order that as well. And it just over and over and over anyway, they just would say we stuffed up we're sorry. And this is what we're doing to fix it. Yeah, they just lie and then they just talk they prevaricate and just an all the spin or that's what ships made us be noticed. There's Australian Government fantastic for distraction and diversion from dead cats. Look over here. Look at the beach and over here. Yeah, dropping probably while the world is up in arms about dropping the Japanese visa. How dare he be here we are royally rooting. Yeah. You know, and dropping the ball all over the place. That's not an Australian unique thing. Jay wish? I mean, you look at our look at bar scene. Oh, man. Yeah. country so proud right now. You know what an absolute doofus he and I were talking last night, you know, so you got Boris with the picture having wine in in Downing Street. Hey, Rahm why weren't meeting and then you have this tragic image of the Queen sitting there by yourself mourning her husband of however gazillion trillion years, and no one is allowed to sit next to her and cuddle her. And that was her decision. I should lead by example. It's horrible. It's such an emotional thing. So that's a populist government in the end the way we every populist government has approached this appallingly. You see so much just in return, she's got a wedding cat and she's just cancelled it. She's just doing what you need to do to keep people safe, not looking. And guess guess what? The Guess which media company don't have a foothold in that country. So she can just do a job without the unrelenting crap of the mainstream media. I do enjoy her live. She's like, Oh, I'm just sitting in the back of her a restaurant and I just thought I would update you. So here we are today. And this is what's going to happen. And it's just like, she's just so engaging. I just sit there going, Oh my God, you're amazing. Why can't we have just Tinder idea? And in Australia? Yeah, yeah, exactly. We have just seen your audience in Australia. We just need to vote for them. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's me. And by the way, it's not Pauline Hanson. Ah, now she'll, she'll crop up. She's still not sure. Anyway. We got this one to death. Andrew, what do you think? Yeah, I was just gonna say your your turn. Right. Okay. So I have a, I have what I call, like a niche hate. And so we do all our banking over the internet, okay. And I am tired of receiving emails from the bank saying, Never send your personal data, okay? Because you'd like people do they get drawn in, but watch out for fake stuff, etc. So when you log on to the website, there's always like three or four parts, like, you know, take this training course for fishing, and recognize scamming and all the rest of it. So I mean, it's like, you have to battle your way through all these warnings if you didn't know that they were active scammers or fissures around internet banking and quite frankly, big Hindustan for the last two or three years. So the oldies don't know. Right? However, three weeks ago, we got an email from the bank where we do our company banking, okay, saying, hey, we need you to update your details, please email us a certified true copy of your passport and your NRIC car. So this stinks to high heaven. Right so I checked the email address looks like it's legit speak to our accountant. So how you know you've seen this they came back to does look legit. And anyway, so in the end, he rang the bank and bought on. It's a nice speak to this person, oh, no, we can't put you through to that person. We didn't call you back. And they never called me back. In the end, I tried to ring this person directly. And it turns out it was a legitimate request. So the bank is saying like, if you need to send anything here, even your name, like send it in three separate emails and yet the other hand, they're saying, hey, please send us a copy of your passport and your NRIC card. So between those two things, you basically got everything you need. to apply my sort of personality or identity, it that's the way and you're a savvy guy, Steve. Well, imagine if you're not, you're not savvy. And we, and we all know somebody who's recently fallen foul to something like this, right? Mm hmm. I mean, this is our business account. So like, it's our lifeblood, I just find it amazing. In the end, I finally get clarity. Yes, it's legit as like, and they're like, oh, yeah, you're past the deadline. It's like because you've asked us to send sensitive information over email, and I'm doing what you've told me to do in your 1 billion emails, say watch out for scammers and phishers. We will never ask you to send personal information. And that's exactly what you've done. So we ended up running around trying to get a Thai justice of the peace to sign off on a true copy law, a lot of fun. And then we get bent over 80 bucks to Korea this over. So banks, financial institutions, if you're going to send out warnings, you're live and die by and not then send out something to just send us a copy of your passport and yet your ID card because it just doesn't work. Yeah, just think put yourself in the customers shoes, think through your communications, make sure that you're not contradicting, you know, the primary message of the institution. I mean, it's just, it's just so obvious, right? It's crazy. I think it'd be, I think a big problem we all have. And I've thought about this a lot lately, and I think I can't remember it was Hillary Clinton maybe said I can't remember. And we all assumed that the people running governments, big businesses, the banks, all these guys, they're all the cleverest people in the room. But in actual fact, they're not. They usually just the bastards that made it to the top on the shoulders of other guys, and mostly guys. And I think we just assume that the best people are doing. And then when it when a catastrophe hits, or something like the COVID and everything, that's when we just kind of go, oh, maybe maybe this guy that's only here because those his dad and that guy's dad went to school together, and they're on the same rugby team. Maybe he wasn't the best person to run the education in the state when they couldn't get reps and half the kids are dropping like flies, and there's no teachers left. Maybe Maybe we should maybe employ people that actually know stuff. Would not be wouldn't that be something? Yeah, based on merit? Yeah. All right. So my third one is it is time for aspirational marketing to be a thing of the past. And this is a real passion point from an environment perspective. So right at the moment, the PR marketing advertising and social media industries are getting a real shellacking in the media. And the pressure is building on them to step away from their fossil fuel clients. And they basically are responsible for a lot of what's going on, a lot of the green washing is coming from this sector. And it's obviously the sector I built my career in, right. But on the other side of things like you know, we haven't upgraded our phones for more than four years. And that's a choice. Whereas before, before I really understood what was going on, and E waste and all that sort of stuff. I used to update my technology every two years. Because I believe in if you're going to, you know, I need technology to do what I do. The boys have, I think their phones, maybe three years now, constantly Jaaxy mainly constantly begging us to get them the light is fine. And I'm just like you don't need the light is fine. You don't need it, it doesn't make any difference, but because they might have got it going to the movies. And so beyond the fossil fuel industry, I think the marketing, PR advertising industry, you're gonna have to really wake up to this, you know, the, the automotive industry. So we're sitting in a developing country do it already has too many cars on the road. I mean, you look at the images of China, you know, in the, in the 80s, when everyone's on a bike to China now where there's so much traffic on the road, it's out of control, right, this explosion of growth of the things that are creating the crisis that we're facing, and there's no stopping the advertising for this. So you'll you'll see that, you know, the cars advertising the movie theaters, plastic bottles for soft drinks, like Coca Cola always advertises with glass bottles, they don't sell glass bottles, but that's what they're advertising with. But the more local brands, they're just still advertising with the plastic bottles, right? And I'm just constantly looking at all of these just going when is this going to start? Like their advertising our doom is that's basically the way I'm saying it and I'm finding it really hard. And it's hard, you know, we kids, but you know, we're just constantly talking to the boys about it about not wanting shit, just because someone told them that they should want it. You know, we're talking about the brands, you know, all these fashion brands that abandoned the developing world at the beginning of the pandemic and lift these women with nothing, you know, where they're at risk of being sold into slavery, domestic abuse, because they're the money earners in the family, and they're not bringing any money in. I mean, just this misery and lack of care for the women in their supply chain. Right. And then, you know, Jackson sort of mentioned one of the brands that I know is responsible for that. And I'm like, I'll never buy from those people. But we will as a society, we will as a global society, we will go back and buy from those brands will never punish them for behaving that way. And so for me, aspirational marketing, I'm just so tired of it. I think it's the cornerstone issue for the environment, and we just, it's just not changing. So that's one of my I think that some you know, it's all about as you say, you know, can tumor ism and habit and you know how we were brought up as children and and, you know, in all those influences digitally now, you know, maybe it's a great opportunity now to start a movement what what do we have the what what's the day that the day we turn off the lights that day? Yeah Earth Day so Earth Day so you know we should have you know no consumer day or something and we were for a whole day no one buys anything imagine the impact that it would make on the world? No but but you do that and you get you imagined the retail associations will be up in us. This will cost x 100,000 jobs worldwide what just from one day where you're not actually taking in money? Sure, sure. And look, I think it's this is not a new thing. The idea of aspirational money get this you to look or, you know, if you're, I remember going to the cinema in 1976 and Pearl and Dean used to run the adverts. And one of the biggest advertisers at cinema was Bacardi rum. And they used to show these these really, really good looking people in like linen suits running down, appear to a speedboat, and then going off to their yacht. And the tagline was when you're drinking Bacardi, I mean, you know, whether it's a half measure or a full measure, you know, apparently, you know, if you drink McCarty, you're gonna look super cool. And you're gonna zip out to your on your speedboat. Yeah, it doesn't work like that you grew up in Buckinghamshire. Exactly, because it just doesn't. And what made it worse, I think, and now in the last five, in the last 10 years, massive demographic of middle class coming? Absolutely. They've got money 17% of the global population sit in the middle class. So 7.6 billion people, how many people is that? 17%? Steve? I'm not too sure. This morning. 51 5.19. What was the numbers again, 70 70% of the global population and middle class now 1.7 billion of those came on board in the last decade. Even China, they want the most of them. Asia, Asia, Middle Class. Yeah. But the key percentage is who was born into working class and has gotten into middle class because when you're born into working class, you grew up with a certain set of norms. Okay. But then as you move through middle classes, like Oh, hang on, I have got money in the bank, and so should get a car and it could be cool. We were out yesterday with friends who bought a car, they're foreigners in this country, and they walk straight into a dealership, zero guarantees on anything. They went, Oh, yeah, you can have it 1.9% Finance, like put a deposit down 1.9% Finance, no backstop. So it's like get this get this get this Tata was it five years ago released that car less than$5,000. For a car, it's for people, you know, I think it was basically skin and bones. But it's like, now you're intimate with us. And you too, can own a car. You don't have to balance the family on one motorbike. You too, can own a car. And it's only 5000 bucks. Six years ago, here in Thailand, the government had a new scheme where for first time car buyers, they got the government contributed 50% of the deposit to go out there in a country where the infrastructure is creaking already. And so you suddenly put 30% More cars on the road in a two year period. Yeah, it's a huge, huge topic. Yeah, it's a massive topic. And and when, you know, when I when I think of the global brands, so it's not like like you're saying, you know, it's always been the case, basically, since the advertising industry in the 50s started, right, that's when this sort of big movement has been happening. But we've got to get to the point where we've got to recognize that the problems that the world face right now, because of this, and it's like every time you go into a supermarket, and the shelves are not changing, they're not redesigning the supermarket for for it to be less polluting, then nothing's changing. And that has to change. Right? You had a great post, Andrea, in some of your most recent posts about out of the 20,500 toothbrushes available in the island is not one that's like an eco friendly made from whatever, you know. And and it's test. It's just ridiculous, because, you know, it shouldn't be there, those products should be there. And they should be the dominant numbers, not that there were two choices in that aisle for sustainable two prices to two. But did that comes back to the things you've talked about short sighted because the new cycle is so short, and politicians in power are so short, so that short, we were expecting big thinkers and smart people to be in charge of everything, and they're not. So no one's got any, any. They're not looking towards the future. Everyone's thinking about now. And then the smartest people aren't coming up with it. Like I'm expecting someone to suddenly go, Oh, we've devised this machine. It'll go down to the local tip and it'll turn all that stuff in 20 years in the tip in a day and I'll make it into a big battery and then all the rubbish in the world will be gone. And it's like, that's probably not going to happen. So we all need to actually go on we probably need to do something. I think everyone still waiting for someone to say extract and fixes and it's we were the ones that have to fix this don't get despondent Andrea, Dr. Kaku she Neitzke is really clever. He He's a scientist in Australia. I love him. He's welcome medicine. He's got everything he does. And he said it and he wrote a post and it gave me hope it said we had we know how to fix this. We just need the right politicians. We can fix this. So don't lose heart. Because I haven't met people. I haven't lost hope. And I never I never will. And I'll never be a doom and gloom. I won't sometimes I exasperated by the just no change. Not yet. In May this year, when the election is called. We have seen it's been laid very, very, very starkly how badly we've been served by this government in Australia. And it's all about politics. It's all about this party in this party at this party in particular has been taken over by you know, it's not the party of you know, the 50s It's different. It's like the Republican Party in America. That's not the party of Lincoln. So we need to just purge and it feels like we're going to do a big purge and once that big purge, it feels like we'll get some momentum and Australia this one so ashamed. So shame this country, we could lead the world. We have the brains we have the money, we have the environment we have everything we need here to we could have led the world and yet we're on the backfoot we're down the bottom and it's gross. But can I can I have can I just do a funny one? You know, sheets me you'd have boys and girls are pathetic. Uh huh. You know, she to me? They put the goddamn wheel nuts on the car so tight. Even if you wanted to change your tire in the middle of the night on the side of the road. You can't we have to call me and that sheets me because I would like to be able to change a tire if my goddamn tire were and are also why did they make John meet so tight? I can't do a job. I'm making dinner. I can't do the job. I need a man for that. And that's not good enough. Okay, so I don't think you need a man. I think you just need a few more brain cells. If I'm honest. If you can't get a job laid off, use a bot like that. So you're the man here is telling me how to open leads. So I still needed a man to open the job. I can have breasts and still tell you this because it's Yeah, but what you're doing now is your test circulating Steven gesticulating Lee made my testicles out of it. Like mansplaining. But it's testicular waiting. No, no, no, I think it's just common sense. I know the changes, the change in the car thing, mate. It's it's leveraged. So yes, you have a Jack just get like a hollow tube and put the end on it. And Atticus could change the tire with one thing I use my whole body. And why don't we get this chip from, you know your equation length Times. But it's it can't be done. It's still trying to work out how you use a bottle open and open again. A donut chart. Yeah, I'm in a job. How do you use I have to admit that something that I'm thinking has taught me in the last two or three weeks up flip clockwise about one of those but aliveness or a bottle opener? I'm sorry, like a bottle opener. Or? Sorry, I'm not to open my bottle. It was sort of like them what sounds they make? So so a jar of jam, right? It's a screw top. So Philipa has always struggled with being able to open that when it's new. I have had both my wrists broken. So it's a bit of weakness going on there. But you know, I'd like to be able to do things for us not so good for a horn player. Ah, okay. I've got a route buddy implant now can't play anyway. Yeah, I know. It's just those things as little things that just make your life difficult. Just a little and it's all because and that's that's the thing that shoots me is like some idiot 20 years ago put a bloody a bit of glass in a jar of something or other. And now forevermore, we have to have our jaws tightened so much so that because that one idiot 20 years ago, we're talking just stupid people. Stupid people do stupid things, but we all suffer the consequences from it. Why do you need to know that you don't drink bleach? Why does that need to be written on there? Because some idiot drank bleach. You know, it's all just we all have to suffer the consequences and stupid people trivial shit me things like a really quick trivial one. If I can just jump in. Yes, sir. You know, when you let someone stay at your house, and like usually they your friend, right? And they change the law like, no, it's so true. I've actually had to give people marching orders over the last few months. But when you let someone stay in your house, and they like completely change everything, like the shower. Hi. He come back in. It's like it's for a midget and they're not even a midget. What do they shower? I don't know, the toilet papers around the other way. What's going on there? I actually had a friend come and stay and she was staying in my house with me in Singapore only recently. Oh, she didn't do that all night. Every time I went to the bathroom. I had to turn the toilet paper up because I Got a way that I like the toilet paper? You know, everyone has their way. I don't know. It's really trivial, right? But it really showed me. Yeah. And I'm like am I won't say or no. Do you mind just leaving the toilet paper the way I like it because it is actually my house and she like, like confronted me with it like really gave me the shit she was out of the house the next day. That's that's shows me the privilege, though, doesn't it John? Sorry, she hasn't been a privilege, don't you think on her? Who's been on John's path? Because he's got a house? Free? I mean, yeah, but I pay a huge amount for No, but just it's really trivial, right? But the shower thing, so it's only coming to the shower, you want to bring it down, put it back up to where it was? Put it back, didn't you learn as as one of the first things is leaving how you found it? Yeah, leave it how you found it, especially when you're in someone's face. One of my favorites was we had some people come and stay, we went off. When we came back sat down, you know, we've been away for quite a few weeks, sat down in our lounge turned on our TV. And this person had locked us out of our Netflix account, locked themselves into our Netflix account, and then had no idea how to lock themselves back out. So it's basically do a hard reset on the whole account on the whole TV and all the rest of it. It's like, you know what, I don't need this, I really, really don't need it. I just want to sit down and watch my TV. It's like, if you've got your own Netflix list, then transfer it onto us don't mess with the account. And then And then basically saying, oh, yeah, you know, and I reached out to this person said, Hey, can you tell me how to do it? Oh, yeah. Ah, probably just for Netflix Help Center. Okay, yeah, make because I've got time to do that right now, as I'm sitting down here trying to watch my own TV. Like, for God's sake, and I've got a few more that I can't go into. Because they're probably a lot of I think that's I think it's a whole subject on its own trivial shit means one of the things that I've noticed that seems to be happening more in the last two or three years is people using this voice to text as communication. So so on WhatsApp, for example. You can always tell people, they've got WhatsApp installed on their PC, because you get WhatsApp messages really long message. Yeah, that are like 3000 words. It's like there's no way you could type that out on your phone. You just your thumbs wouldn't work for months afterwards. Absolutely. So it seems to be on WhatsApp. And so if you're having a conversation with someone's your tap out message, Hey, I just want to forget to do this. And then you get a voice voice memo back. So you have to stop you're doing you have to listen to their voice memo. Right? And then you have to respond to it. And then you get another voice memo back then it's always okay. A little bit selfish, you know, and if you're driving, you know, I totally get it. It's all good. I've seen three or four occasions where people have been having conversations by doing this. I've ever been behind someone at the check in desk in in Kuala Lumpur. I think it was and this guy was having a no, no, no, it was with a lady because I kept to hear it. So he would record a message and send it to her. Okay, she would then record a message and send it back to him. And then he would listen to it for the whole world to hear. But the kind of responses were things like, what do you want for dinner tonight? You know, and they're kind of on our mind. Yeah, yeah, we have this. It's like, just pick up the phone and talk to each other. That really shit you not rocket science. I don't want to hear it. No one else wants to hear it. You've just tripled your time. Pick up the phone. What do you want for dinner tonight? I don't care. Don't have chicken. We're good, right? Instead of this convoluted thing. So I think that's an example of technology being misused. It's like just pick up the phone and talk to each other. That sounds like the WhatsApp groups with the mums groups at school. Like I haven't I've I'm shocking, like I have no zero interest. It's actually interesting in prep when else was in prep. And the prep teacher said you don't have to be friends with these people. And it was like such a relief. Because thank God for that. But you have to you know, do all this stuff. So there's there's a WhatsApp group for adequacies class. And it's just, it just dings all day with this mindless stuff. Yeah, they'd like this. There's a you've actually, you've actually this is now my fifth and final one. asinine pointless WhatsApp groups. Yeah. People with too much time on their hands and asking stupid questions. So mind, this is my this my, my fourth, my fifth one all rolled up in one Oh, I suppose it serves a purpose for someone. Well, it's just annoying dumb because we're getting the dings like, oh, that's red. It's great. She keeps just the information. And then if you miss it, no, but the problem is if you miss that moment, you have to trawl back through 10,000 messages and I'm selling candles and what sort of arigato candle can I use for this? Or Is anyone interested in and it's like what's happening tomorrow at school, but you have to trawl through all the stuff to find it. And it's like, just put the information there a digital so in response to you know, not so much voice to text, but I think what Steve was talking about was voice to voice is that what you're talking about voice to voice not voice to text. It's when somebody's voice instead of text. You're talking Okay, when someone opts into their phone, saying is that as a kind of memo type? Yep. So I use that. Usually when I just can't be bothered having to type it all out, because it's just too hard to explain in words, I just say it, and I send it as a voice. And I don't need to hear back straightaway. They might respond in an hour and in a week, whenever, it's just that it's just easier for me to verbalize it than to sit there going, and how am I going to say this without making that because, you know, like, often you can send a text or an email communication, and it just gets misinterpreted. Like, it's like, Oh, my God, that's not what I meant. You know, that sometimes it's better just to send the voice recording with you, John, when it's got it's what I like, but you wouldn't start you wouldn't, you wouldn't reach out to your partner and say, Hey, what do you want for dinner tonight? And then sometime, but sometimes it sort of just goes that way. But you don't mean it to be that way. But this person Oh, shit, they're there. Oh, they've entered? Oh, yeah, sure. Well, I'll answer back Oh, dancer, but then all of a sudden, you're in a line in a supermarket that shit shoe because you're hearing this person. But maybe the circumstance was it wasn't supposed to be like that. But it just sort of ended up like that. That's how I sort of find how those communications work for me. And I just want to get it done as quickly as possible. Yeah, just use headphones, right? When you're in public spaces, so that you don't have to annoy other people. I was very anti quietly. Yeah, I was very anti audio text for a long time. And but I've just gotten to the point now, where I just, you know, sometimes you'll get an essay on WhatsApp from somebody, you know. And I by the end of the day, I'm so sick of typing on my phone. So so I'm more inclined now to do audio, not to everyone and like, John, you know, I allow his one. Audio so you can listen to it, please. Alright. Oh, shit. Sorry. That's me answering. How do I stop? You got the idea? I mean, yeah, sometimes you just got to do it. Exactly. So I'm Yeah, but the WhatsApp group thing, especially when you're living in expat land, right is out of control out of control. A simple Google search will answer the vast majority of questions that people are in like you fill up or it's it's pinging. Or like, if I had my phone up, when I'm out for dinner with people, it just never stops. Yeah, it never stops. It's unbelievable. You know, where I work is a black spot. So from you know, 730 in the morning to 430 at night, I don't get it. I can't get anything. So you get in the car, and it sets on fire. And most of us just watsapp stuff that you it's not like, oh my god, she's so popular. she get so many messages. It's just all the endless stuff. Yeah. And you're always feeling like you're not keeping up with stuff. Yeah. It's just like, just give us the information once. Yeah. I'm so glad. I'm sorry to say I mean, I love all my friends that are parents, but I'm so glad I'm not a parent. Yeah, I don't really I don't know the parent. I have to go through all those groups. Yeah. All right. So let's go through quickly. I think Steve's have now finished he's five but let's go quickly for the last couple. So one of the things that I absolutely. It just makes me feel sad, I suppose is the whole influence the culture. And you know, the first time Steve and I went out for lunch after lockdown after the first lockdown. So in 2020, we're sitting in this beautiful beachside restaurant at catch. And everywhere I looked where influences and there was a group of girls on a table, and they all had their phones on a tripod and they were live streaming themselves eating. They weren't talking to each other. They were just doing that. And then it all around them, whether it be skills in their bikinis with you know, just getting their, you know, getting their photos done, saying Terranea remember walking through center in with the boys and there was this woman who was taking it was it was on you know, if you ever go to Santorini it's all about the stairs everywhere, right? And she was basically blocking the path for anyone to so nobody could walk past and I'm like, Screw you. You don't get to own this space. I don't care. You know, so I'm just barging through the middle of with the boys getting the fat a foul look from her. I'm like, seriously, like the selfishness of it. The vanity. You know, such a small percent of luck. I get it, I get that there's a career opportunity for people who succeed. There really is a big career opportunity. financial gains. There really is. But there's so few but it's just become obnoxious. You can't escape it. It's not pleasant to watch. And yeah, it really hits me. It's that trend that we're seeing on social media. Like it's, it's just everywhere, where people make these videos that are more than 10 minutes long one to capture the algorithm for ads to the oh, it goes anywhere. Okay, never goes anywhere. Like it's like, look what look what we're gonna do with this amazing like these colors. And when we spray the pain on this wedding dress, and it's like 10 minutes later, they uncover and it's just looks like a load of shit. It's like, you know, and it's just like the reaction from the people that have been watching the process and got to the end is like totally unsatisfying. And that is this sort of influencer marketing, but it's just gone completely wrong. Because it's just like a whole lot of, you know, like some prankster thing that goes on and it's 10 minutes like you see them on Facebook a lot, dude, does anyone know what I'm talking about? I've got definitely, but I didn't know that the 10 Minute Rule with videos 10 minutes. So there seems to be there's this cake decorating one that you get lured in, and then after a couple minutes, and it just looks like crap in the end. But I lift up the thing and it goes down. And it's like, it just looks like, you know, something I did in kindergarten. Yeah. I mean, it's part of our culture. But you know, just Yeah, it's a diary to something wrong with society where people are so intrinsically vain. And people, they're like, Oh, you're gonna follow this person, because he or she is beautiful. I was down the beach last week, walking a dog 730 In the morning, and there was two girls. And one was the photographer. And you know, the other suit a bikini with a long flowing sarong. So by the time I got to the end of the beach and walk back, she'd gone through, like a couple of Bikini changes. But this point she was in the water with like, wet hair, and kind of like in this sort of, like, in this sort of phase of, it's like, who's following this? Yeah. Why would you do it? If you're launching a modeling career? I could I totally get that. But I'm guessing most of them aren't. There are there was an article in a BBC about two or three months ago, how this trend is taking everyone off garden, there are schools where you learn to do this, and they have this one particular school training, because they had 1200 people signing up a week, yeah, a week, a week, to learn the tips and tricks of taking pictures of yourself and making money. I'd seriously seriously in China, like, you know, it's a 24 hour a day job. Right. So you're constantly online, you're constantly out there. But if you do a good enough job, you'll get a guy that will pay you $100,000 To to support you. So there's money like playing I said, in North Asia, it's a different sort of culture. And I try not to be critical or judgmental of anything, because it's just, it's just part of the society that we're in. But what it's overlapping to, well, everything that we do now, that's the thing, it's like, Fine, if you need to do that. That's your life, that's your choice. But you're in my life, too. And I don't like that. I don't want to be in that space. I don't want to, you know, the first lunch, I go out with my husband after being in lockdown. And all I can see is this nonsense going on around me. And I don't want to have to control I don't want to have to face that all the time. And they broke from it. You know, it's a narcissism. And it's like, you just look at it, you go. So is, is it a personality trait you're born with? Or are we developing this feature of narcissistic people that just can't cope with anything other than adulation from someone somewhere? No, just completely useless in the real world. So you got to worry about that sort of stuff. Because we're not. It's not it's not serving anyone to have these. So many of these sorts of people will look at look at no history and go back to vaudeville, and then come into the performance arts and music and opera and audit, there's always so many people that are so great at the pinnacle of their careers, and they're the most popular on stage or screen, when How many times have we heard those stories of like, where are they now? You know, or, you know, look what they look like, Now, where are they now and more often than not, you know, people that put themselves out into the spotlight will not be in the spotlight for the rest of their life. It's only the lucky few. And they are lucky again, because there's so much talent, there's so much talent, but these people aren't talented. They're talking about when people one line in one life, you know, some people might think they're talented, because you've got all the different rungs of society where someone's looking at this girl on the beach in Thailand, swinging her hair back and oh my god, she's so beautiful. I wish I could be like her, you know, there is always going to be someone that thinks that person is talented. And they may look the last the last couple of months, the majority of people doing it our visitors from overseas for a very cold countries who maybe haven't been able to travel for like 18 months. So it really is a kind of like knife in the ribs is like, not only can I travel, I've got the money to go to this country and look at me because you know, I've either worked really hard all through my life and eaten right to have this body or I've had a little help along the way with a little bit of surgery or a little injection or a little bit of this along the way. Whatever floats your boat, that's absolutely fine. But people are still gravitating towards these perfect beings, which are not necessarily perfect. And I just think it's a shame. And they're up and that's it. There are some that are doing good. Yeah. We had a conversation couple weeks ago with one of our boys who you know, there's this fantastic YouTube star who's you know, is doing some good for the environment a little bit late, and it's kind of like a drop in the ocean but You know, fair play, he's taken a break from counting his money to actually give him some money away and trying to clean up the oceans. So you can do good for it. Yeah. Good with it. Sorry. No, I totally agree. All right, he's got another one. One last one. For me. This is an observation in Sydney over the last four or five weeks going into my local brand supermarket. I won't mention which one, but I always say would you like a plastic bag for 30 cents? But why are they selling me a plastic bag? 30 cents? Why are they selling me a hessian bag or bad, you know, some bag made out of some other sustainable substance. And I just don't understand that. Like how a big brand, like one of the biggest supermarket brands, and they've got great produce, and it's wonderful shopping experience. And then you get to the checkout. And that whole brand experience is lost. Because it's like, I can't carry this, but I don't want to buy a plastic bag. But it's all I've got. So then I've got a of course, I know Andrew, you'll say John, you need to take the bag with you and let you know, but I wasn't thinking about that when I was on the bus this morning. And then I on the way back all there's a supermarket you know, so it's like, I always want to be able to buy something that's you know, going to help the environment. And it's like, you know that that really suits me? Yeah, look, even with the Hessian bags, you got to use them 150 times to counter out their emissions in the creation of them anyway. So you know, this whole idea of buying these reusable bags in the supermarkets and everyone just doesn't or forgot my bags, and I'll buy some more. Yeah, and actually, when we're not, it's not the right decision. It's really hard to change that habit though. Like, I want to I'm I'm under the impression that when I buy that hessian bag, I'm doing something better than using a plastic bag. Yeah, actually, they've actually proved that based on how many times you need to use it before you counter it out. They've actually shown that plastic bags are better. Oh, really? I'm sorry. But not to go to last for 500 years 1000 years right so but John I mean look, you're fortunate in that you're living in a country where you know there are there is no Australian knows that plastic bags are bad for the environment, you know, the message, right? The message is out there probably one of the most progressive you know catching stormwater, gray water users I was Australia is that you imagine if you until where we live, there happens to be a plastic free drive. And so for for as long as I can remember the supermarket's here have stopped giving out plastic bags. Can you buy paper bags, you can buy the reusable hessayon ones or you can buy the really chunky sort of plastic ones that last forever. Like as with handles and stuff are the 1520 kilos. And you can buy insulated bags for your cold stuff. So you got no excuses. The trouble comes when people and I've noticed it the last two or three months, every time I get supermarket, I'm behind someone, they're they're on holiday, and they have a pile of stuff at the end. And they'll go give me back and and the tie checkout person is they get bags, or they go off. It's a money making scheme. Because the country where they come from has zero understanding of the fact you don't need plastic bags. Yeah. Yeah. And so that is quite tricky. And so you end up with the staff getting in getting all kinds of a shellacking, thinking that you know, and then the brand gets pulled through the mud. Yeah, you know, and so it's it's her supermarkets, they're kind of screwed if they do screwed if they don't, if they stop giving out bags, they'll get a kicking, if they carry on giving out bags, they'll still get a kickin, it's the conundrum of what do we have to do to motivate people to bring their own bags, and it's as simple as we just don't need to bloody remember? Yeah, we just need to remember, and we need to maybe be reminded of that. But you know, I, I'm glad I brought it up, because I've got enough bags there that I can go, I should just take one with me every day, you know, the ones where you kill them up and you put them in and they're like, they ended up being like as big as a Fist Tie even smaller than one fist. And it was probably in the public markets, you know, that certain brand, I'm guessing beginning with W maybe they need to do back sharing services, you know, where you have these big bags that can be sterilized, and you put your stuff in it and you pay five bucks for it and you get your five bucks when you bring it back next time. Good. So that's quite a good idea. Sort of like, you know, when we used to be able to get the, you know, put the $1 in when you get your trolley trolley in the carpark. You know, Charlie's John, in the middle of a pandemic health and safety nightmare. Oh COVID For my shopping bag. So it's all about getting people to remember to take their bags to the point we actually have. So we used to just keep them in the car the whole time because like three out of four times I would forget the bags, kicking the habit. We also asked for boxes as well. A lot of the supermarket's he can just get a box. So that's another thing. Ask for boxes. And if you can remember to take your wallet and your phone in the car keys, you can retake it back. You may remember to John right. Yeah, of course. I always take my man by it. If you go back, okay, if you go to the supermarket three times and you've forgotten twice you're not going to forget it the third time because it's really annoying to not have a bag you will remember because you have to when toddlers unless you're driving home from work and someone gives you a call and says hey you just pop in and pick up this this this this this time with your mate if you can remember your phone your car keys and your wallet you should be able to remember a bag like you say John those little sort of fold away bags that we should all have one of those click to our car keys. Yeah, if the small enough What does Yeah, keep me calm, empty, empty shopping taken back out to the car. Liquid Gold, John are no. All right, final ones. I just selfish the my last one. And it's just kind of universal. It's the way the frontline people have been treated by the people that have been encouraged by the right wing nut jobs. So people in power have behaved appallingly, which has given permission to people that have had no power to treat people on the frontline who have no power being spat on, punched, abused, that shits me because the people, especially the some of the senators in Australia, they're anti vaccine, they they know, they've all had their vaccines, they know what they're doing, and they just playing to their base, but the consequences of that behavior, they will never feel it. It's the people at the front, the nurses and the you know, the supermarket workers getting spat on and punched and screamed up. And that shoots me because those those they know what they're doing. And they know who they're playing to. And they don't care. And they're feeding the fire of that rage. Right, which just makes all society worse. And yeah. Keep them divided. Keep them controlled. Yeah. And the fact that people can't see it, you know, that's, I don't want to say it. But yeah, you know, the people in the nursing education, supermarkets, obviously, predominately women, right? Yep. Yeah, the way that they've been treated and disrespected by by the leaders of the country, which ripples out because it's not just the right, it's also the left with the extreme sort of anti Vaxxer movement. So it's both it's both, it's the extremes on both sides that I think have been a huge, we've shined the light on some big failings in our societies, and the majority of us are decent people, you know, 90 95% of populations are getting vaccinated. So 90 to 95% of the people in the country agree with the you know, the all in approach. And then there's a small percentage of people that are getting all the media attention, causing all the problems and making it worse for everybody else. And yeah, I'm just time God, heavy. It's hard to keep the faith in humanity sometimes. Right? Yeah. All right. So it kind of links to my next one, my last one in one of the things that really suits me, and it's really, I think it's getting worse is the amount of rage on social media. I wrote about it recently. And I need to, I need to sort of formulate it more. But people are arguing and fighting with people they don't know. And I have this theory, if I don't know you, and I don't know how much work you've done to form the opinion that you've formed, I'm not going to engage in a conversation with you, because it's not worth it, especially if you're just going to rage at me, or the language of rage, you know, anything you say, or you're just so caught, you know, that sort of patronizing tool, but it's just disgusting, the way people are talking to each other. So just if you're don't get involved in these conversations, you know, if you even if it's family, you got some nasty aunt or uncle that wants to have a fight with you about whatever they want to have a fight with you about just don't get involved in the rage. Because it just it sits inside of you, you know, put your points of view out there keep a balanced Chinese language that brings people with you, it doesn't push people away, we've got a we got to get the rage out of out of our societies, but you know, everyone's going through a hard time. And that's people are using that as a justification. But we got to start talking with more respect towards each other, we really don't, because it's just making the whole world worse. And we need people to come in together now more than ever to overcome the challenges that faces so that's one of mine. Yeah, I mean, I in response to that, I made a comment. Recently, I watched an interview with a, you know, one of those well known global shifts, whichever one it was, I think it was Gordon Ramsay or one of those and I responded just in the chat just saying, Oh, wow. You know, like, How cool was that? It was like responding had something to do with you know, you mentioned X amount of children and he didn't mention that he had two sons as well. I think he's got three daughters and two sons or something like this. And he said, Oh, you know, I'm having three daughters blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the response was, Well, his son must have been a very lucky guy to you know, be brought up with so much great food and I said something like me think daughter like that's all I said was me things daughter, I was just like going I was like a I don't even know why maybe it was, I don't know, responding to 1000s of different people saying things in this in this in this feed and I had some someone like verbally abusing me. Wasn't it was the kids and blah, blah, blah. He's got two kids and like, don't you know these things? And it's like, you know, I didn't even respond by was like, Well, I think I might just back out of this. Yes, it sort of pushes you away. Like, you don't want to you don't want to contribute like, Oh, I thought it was, you know, yeah, was just it was just an aside, it wasn't meant to be a digue or anything. Someone I didn't know, I wanted to make sure I knew exactly what was going on in his family. So I think social media, and it goes back before social media goes back to the very invention of the interweb. allowing someone to anonymously engage, or even not even anonymously, engaging someone that they know, they have no chance of ever meeting may, everyone's 10 Men, everyone's 10 men, they say whatever they want to someone that they know, they're never going to meet. I remember in the early days, I remember getting drawn in. And I can remember, I think on one occasion, I actually posted up my address, and said, Hey, this is where I live, come and see me anytime, anytime, right? And it was when I just got to Singapore, and I think I was going through an exception and facing my life, because this person had gotten under my skin where I swear, punchier lights. Yeah. So that I actually posted that my address how stupid am I? I think, and then with, with hindsight, you can look back and go, You know what, it's just not worth it, you know, it's just these people can be anybody you know. And it's, it's just not worth it. Unless you can look someone in the eye, there's there is sometimes there is zero point in trying to engage in having a meaningful conversation if you're dealing with that type of person who just wants to fight. And I know, Andrew has recently gone through an experience with somebody who's going to come on to one of our platforms, and just kind of seems like they want to have a little bit of a fight. They're not quite charming, and it's driven people away. Yeah. And that she's such a waste of energy. I mean, you told us about things that shaped me, when I know, and I see how hard Andrew has worked to create a lovely environment, and that particular group, and for somebody to say, I can't be part of this group, if it's gonna be in is because of some absolute tool who just can't control his or, or herself. And I think the internet makes a coward out of people like that. And it's the mute, delete whatever button it is, you just don't need them in your life, because otherwise it gets in your head. Yeah, well, they also the internet has given a platform to people that shouldn't have a platform. And so people, professionals, people with PhDs, 50 PhDs in you know, immunology and epidemiology. They're being questioned, abused by the local fish and chip shop owner, because they've read something somewhere. So suddenly, these people that didn't have a voice, have a voice, and they're abusing the people that actually know what they're talking about. And so these good people that are just doing their job, like you, Andrea, are just copying it from people that yeah, they think their opinion is worth more than your education and experience. Yeah, that's interesting. It's an interesting observation. Because it just makes me think of a number of people I can think of straight away that have found a voice. And that's what Andrew has done with so many of us to allow us to unleash that voice. And there are people you know, I can pinpoint people right now, which I won't hear on this podcast, but who have really found a voice and they're really contributing, and it's really great to see it. Yes, it's gone from odd, no posts to maybe some pictures to then a few words to like actual sentences. Yeah. Sentences. That's the balance of social media is yes, giving a platform to people who never would have had a platform, which is awesome, and a voice to those people. But the other the dark side of it is, is giving a voice to people who shouldn't should. So there's people that are using their voice for good and there's people are using their voice to crush other people's voices. Yes. Yeah, I think we're gonna see some great developments within all that space of machine learning where, you know, brands and platforms like the Facebook's and the LinkedIn, and everything, that we'll be able to work out who who's contributing, and who's not, and possibly be able to block them out, like, mute them, like, you know, because it's, you know, that machine learning, it's learning and learning so quickly, that it can actually see where there's the negativity and it can pick up the words and you know, if you decide you want to block out that, that feed or the contribution from those particular nodes or people, I think that's very feasible. I think that's very much, John big tech knows or how to do this already. Yeah, exactly. It's already there. The machine learns, and they know what they just don't they're not doing it because it's all about money. Well, that sort of just comes up that one last point on me is the fact of the algorithm changes from Facebook over the last three years that went from build your communities, build your groups, get everyone on Facebook, now we've got 3 billion people on Facebook, but now we're going to stop you like being able to talk to those people unless you pay us. But of course, that was exactly the strategy right from the start. And the tactic that they took when they decided on that strategy to be able to monetize every single action and reaction on Facebook to make them into the multi billion dollar business that they are was simply a tactical approach to sacking us all integrate all these fabulous groups when I've got like, a dozen groups with 1000s of people across different groups, and I can't connect with them anymore. Unless I pay, you know, totally pisses me off. Yeah, yeah. Media ships. Yeah, it certainly does. But you know, back to the, the negative and the positive. So the negative people are pushing the good people away from social media, right. So the good people don't want to be there anymore. Because it's so that when they go there, it's such an unpleasant experience. And so basically, what we're, what we're doing is we're allowing them to dominate the global conversation, because we're not participating in it because of how they're participating in it. And so one of my fundamental messages is all the good people need to get back on social media and start engaging and participating. Because if we don't, we're going to allow them to control the global narrative. And it's a very dangerous thing, to give them that power. And it's all through history, this stuff, it's not social media. And the other thing is, as soon as a society ignores its experts. Another thing all through history, when we start to ignore our experts, or make it harder for them to return have a voice or even to the point where you know, when you're the fall of Persia, you know, it was it was killing, killing the academics, the experts, the scientists, if they didn't get out of the country, they were dead. Right. That's the beginning of the end of I think it's the beginning of societal breakdown. That's happening Australia, but also Andrea, more, more recently, it's any good movie, they never listened to the scientists at the start. Yeah. And it's not until the end, when they finally realize that they have to listen to the scientists. Yeah. And but by not listening to the scientists, all of us have to endure this pandemic for longer. And it's just an end the frustration that everyone feels who's done the right thing, right. You just feel it, you know, and it's, but there's nothing we can do about those people, but we can drown them out. But to be able to get the good people back on on it back into digital or into social media or back into a conversation, because we're so diluted with so many channels, you know, it's like, maybe it's time we have, there's something new that that we can bring the good people back, you know, where where do they go back to? Yeah, well, they've got to be back. They've got to be where where everybody is, rather than creating something new, because there's a lot of new marketplaces that are sort of locked in. Where is everybody? I mean, you've got people on LinkedIn on tick tock on Facebook, still, you know, Facebook is still the biggest, right? Whether you like it or not, but it's wherever that wherever the community is, right? Yeah. You got to be where you're comfortable and all that sort of stuff. But we can't run away from it because it's ugly. Face it and change it. Yeah. Where do you find within your professional world as digital conversationalist, do you find that you get the most engagement? In which platform? Or does it change from subject matter? Yeah. For me, it's always LinkedIn and Facebook, LinkedIn, and Facebook. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Twitter, kind of, you know, sort of, I don't like to get involved in conversations with random people that I've never met. So Twitter, for me, has been an information distribution channel or Instagrams more personal to sharing the joy of life, you know, but yeah, Link Facebook and LinkedIn for sure. Okay. All right, guys. G is everyone done this? Yeah. I hope you've enjoyed it. Hearing about the things that shitless we got to reinvent jars, so my sister can open them and leave a comment about the things that she you, because it would be really interesting for us to know, what are those other things, you know, that we just accept, and we shouldn't anymore? So, guys, thank you. Appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Andrea. I think the four of us should get back together again. So if you have think of a theme, let me know. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. All right, and signing off, and we'll see you soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.