My guests for this podcast are Katie Hudson, Karine Gauthier and Caryll Mullings-McDonald.
To set the scene, I was delighted when a group of my friends, who run a book club in Phuket, decided to make Uncommon Courage their book of choice. I personally know most of the ladies in the group, but not all of them, and on the night it happened (which I was not invited to) I was a nervous wreck.
Katie reminded me in the podcast that she did share feedback at 2.30am that night (it was a long and rowdy night apparently), but it was only a few days later when Caryll sent me video testimonials that I knew the book was well received. PHEW!!
This book is not your typical book by any stretch of the imagination. It’s intentionally designed that way too. I wanted to do something different, far-reaching, and useful for everyone today, as we are collectively stuck in a very challenging time for humanity! It was written to launch people out of despair, and into hope and action. I know that if we can work on ourselves, we can achieve amazing results together.
To know it resonated with the book club so powerfully - for different reasons and in different ways - is something I am absolutely excited and relived to hear.
I loved doing this podcast with Karine, Katie and Caryll. It was amazing hearing what resonated and why, as well as some of the funny things that came up on the night.
Super grateful to you all for doing this podcast with me, and for all of the ladies who attended book club that night. Very special. Thank you.
#UncommonCourage #BookClub #Phuket
Hello, my name is Andrea Edwards and welcome to uncommon courage. I've got a bit of an unusual one tonight. Recently some of my wonderful friends hosted a book club in Phuket spaced on the book uncommon courage. So those friends Katie Hudson, hello, Korean go to Good evening, and Kirill Mullings McDonald, allo thrinng want to go first? Tell everyone a little bit about you. So my name is Corinne booty. I'm French Canadian. I'm a business owner, personal trainer and life coach. I'm also a wife and a mother. I've been living in Asia for 24 years, I think now, I lived in Australia for 10 years, Singapore for 14. And now we've lived in Phuket for the last three and a half years, I have a beautiful little company, a fitness center for women in Singapore. So that's my little business that I have down there. And that's where I use my skills as a personal trainer in the life coach. And current is truly truly amazing. So go check out the body temple. Alright, Katie. So I've been in Asia for nearly 20 years, Hong Kong, Singapore Phuket for the last four years. So I worked at the British Chamber of Commerce in Singapore for 10 years, which is where I met you, Andrea. And then we decided to have a complete lifestyle change and move cat. I've got a small business here and important distribution business where I bring in some beautiful men's and boys swimwear and distribute those through the hotel boutique. So that keeps me a little bit entertained, as well as doing careens fitness classes, which are excellent. Yeah, it's very true, actually. So you're running down the road as I was doing my final stretch in the pool the other day, Katie, but you're so focused on your run, you didn't look up, so you have to look up next time. Alright. And grill. Hi. So I'm originally from Jamaica. And we moved to Asia to Phuket. In particular, we've been here about eight years. But once we got here, we promptly got pregnant. So we have two small ones that came from drinking Phuket water. I will say I work in hospitality, particularly a marketing strategy and hospitality tech, which I've grown to love over the last couple of years. Just what else can I say, you know, Phuket has been amazing. It's, I think one of the best places to live. We've thoroughly enjoyed our time here. And I plan to stay beside for as long as we can. I know, obviously, all of us have been impacted by what's been going on for the last sort of 1819 months, right, working in the hospitality industry, working in health and wellness. And then, of course, Katie's distributing to the hotels when there's no customers in the hotel. So it's been a pretty grueling time for everyone. But I think we can all agree we're lucky to be in Phuket getting through the shower. I was talking to the boys, they're complaining, they want to go to Singapore. And I'm like, could you imagine being stuck in that apartment in Singapore? This is what we've got here. Anyway, so one of the reasons I asked these ladies to come is they did a book club on the book and common carriage, they wouldn't let me come, which I thought was very evil. And I knew it was happening. And then I didn't hear anything for like three or four days, and then curl, you finally sent me through some videos, I had no idea what the outcome was. All I knew was that I do nothing. But it sounds like you guys had a pretty funny night. I'm just going to interrupt there very quickly, because you did hear something. I text you at 230 in the morning to say we were all quite drunk. And we'd had the best, most, I don't know, enthusiastic book club discussion. But funny. That could also have been a negative, right? Oh, no, it wasn't. He wasn't mentioned. This actually created the most engaged, but I thought, yeah, so anyway, it sounded like a lot of fun. And I know I would have enjoyed the night. But yeah, Korean, you're the one that suggested you do the book club, because I know you've just done another one. But give me a bit of an insight. So I mean, Katie's a very well organized lady. So she has all my books, you know, for the next 12 months or something. And your books came actually when the list had been done anyway, already. So and then you've been very generous. And we had these copies of book that you've personally delivered and autographed and everything and I just obviously picked it up and really enjoying it. And I just sent it to the book club. And I thought, I think we really ought to read this and have it like, you know, squeeze it in between all these 12 books. So then that's how you made the list and you made it straight for the next month. And we thought All right, let's do this. Alright, then obviously, there was a lot of wine consumed, but it got quite, there's a lot of wisdom. See, Andrea went with like 108 wisdom, a few glasses of wine to go with all the wisdoms what we decided to do, Andrea, because there was so much to get through in the book. So I think Corinne mentioned to you earlier today, we all decided to pick three particular chapters so we can talk about those and then start the discussion around those particular chapters. And I think that worked really well even though honestly, we didn't get through even those three chapters each. I think we made it all to number two, but that was about as far as we got because the discussions were Yeah, they were they were really interesting. I think the thinking behind them as well. To add to this was this feminine wisdom once again, and it's not like it's a flowing story. I mean, everything makes sense and they all gel together of course but it's not like a flowing stories from the beginning to the end and you can So much content to the book. And I thought, you know, if everyone just picks three of them, that'd be very good to discuss what, you know what they resonated with them, I suppose. And it just bought some, again, very engaging conversation from with their opinion. And yeah, it was really, really good. It was very good just to, you know, add to what current saying, I think one of the things was, we split the book up. And because of the way the book is written, it resonates with people really deeply. So if they had a chapter, it wasn't just a quick Oh, I thought this, it was really got into their own life, their own stories, their own struggles, like how they felt during reading that chapter, what they wanted to apply. So even though the chapters are actually really easy to digest, it was nice because it brought a lot of stuff out of people. So that's what made the conversation so enriching as Korean said, and then it would bring home because everybody is different. So it would bring up a lot of discussions as to how people saw things are differently from somebody else, and that type of thing. So it was actually really interesting to me at how deep people went with what they were presented in the book. That was really cool. That's great. I love that. I agree. That's what I was saying. It's a strong point of your book, the fact that there's so many different wisdom that can be applicable and people can take when that different stage of their life sexually. So, you know, it's kind of broad, and it can be enjoyed by so many readers. And there might be something that's and that's what I said, it should be a bedside book that you have next to you all the time, because it's something that was applicable, and then six months down the track, like you're into a different space as well. So it's powerful in that way. Actually, for me, I think that book, yeah, I'll actually steal from one of the ladies that was out the book club. So she is an A Levels literature teacher, and she's also doing her own blog. So writing, reading, this is her thing. And she was so excited. She's like, this book is gonna be amazing. She's like, it's so approachable. And it's just a proper coffee table book. Like, you just need to have it out there all the time. And I'm like, very true. And you know, once you use that word approach, but like, that's exactly what it is like, it really is easy to digest, easy to read, quick to go for. So it was really cool. hearing that from her and her perspective on that. Then someone else's said it shouldn't be a Christmas stocking for many people. And everyone's Yes. Do you remember? Yeah, should be a Christmas stocking filler fish? Yeah, I think that was me, probably a bottle of wine. And it was, it was me, it was one of those books, I could have just kept writing and writing and writing. And I had to stop myself. Because there's just so many, there's so many things, and I especially the time that the world's been going through and I just see so many people suffering unnecessarily and you know, you know, the resist, persist message is a real big one for me. And something I learned when the boys were young, you know, what you resist, not going to go away, the laws of energy are actually really true. So I just, you know, I just really wanted to put it out there in the world just hoping that I could help some people right now. And, you know, it's a very difficult book to put out in the world. Because until people tell you what they think of it, you have no idea what how it's going to go, right. So your book club, and your feedbacks been really beautiful. And I really, really appreciate it. But um, I thought this is a beautiful opportunity just for some other people to hear about it, who may not have picked up the book yet or bought the book and just, you know, because obviously I'm, I was watching a bondo video interview, and he was talking about this new song. And he goes, I just want people to listen to the music. And I was like, Yeah, I just want people to read the book, you know, that's why I put it together, right. But it's a hard process to get a book out there without that sort of international fame. So hearing what you guys think, but also giving other people an opportunity, because people don't read anymore, they're not necessarily going to buy a book, if they're not reading anymore. And I don't know, I think this is all part of the time where we all need to slow down a bit and sort of step back a bit and reflect a bit, you know, that's what if we can't do that now, we're never gonna be able to do it. Just like even for the trumpet, I just want to say that you really did write it in such a way understanding that people don't read anymore, because I tell you, you know, like, my husband doesn't read at all. And I would say your books, the first thing is read in I don't know, since school, if it wasn't a sports magazine, or anything of that he would never read anything like that. And again, the way it was written, it's you know, it's short, it's easy to digest, it's relatable. So I really do think that people will 100% appreciate the style that is written. And also it's related to that chapter that resist persists. So you talk about chapters that we like, that was actually the one that I thought about, and I enjoyed it, because it's one of those things that you It takes a while for you to learn. And I was reading that I didn't know the term if you resist persists, but it's something I take with me because I've learned that the more that you push when you push it sometimes I think it's just a way you know, the universe is saying to there's a lesson you need to learn. Like if you keep pushing against it, you keep pushing, pushing, pushing, it's gonna continue and it's funny once you release and just take what has been offered into place, all of a sudden everything changes. So I thought that was a pretty awesome I'm definitely gonna steal that. Also my children so many times the boys are doing sewing, I just can't stand it. And I'm like, I've just got to start not standing it because the more energy I put into it, the more it exists to having children actually is when that universal truth really sunk in for me, I want to add like because it's spot on exactly what corral was. They're like, you know, people don't read much or whatever. You know, I also saw like no people are just really hooked on on Netflix nails in series, right? Like sometimes they like I don't want to watch a big long movies or whatever they like to have like a snippets of movies or so we have series and I think your book is very much like this as well now that you can pick it up and you know, read a few pages wisdoms, and so on, and you put it down, and then you read again. And you know, so I think it's fantastic. But then actually, and you've really catered for people, okay, they don't want to read much. Well, here we go. It's a good book for it. I mean, actually, Corinne, that's a really good point. I think it's the perfect book for that. And you shouldn't read too many chapters in one go, because you need to read them and digest and put some of the wisdoms in place. And then when you've done that, then maybe go back and read some more thoroughly agree and what you resist persists. That was also one of mine as well, I think it's also and then it's great that you put into the book as well. I mean, there's so many great wisdoms that are like but yeah, to surrender and just Yeah, don't resist what keeps persisting so I I didn't have that also on my favorite actually corral. That's why we friends, and we just got great minds think alike, right? Yes, yeah. All right. Cody, did you have one that sort of stood out? I chose chapters that were personal, particularly between you and I. So the first one, Andrew was number four, which was Do you hear voices in your head? And can you remember we had that conversation quite a while ago? And you said to me, do you hear voices in your head? And we explained your your story in which you've written about in the book, which was is absolutely amazing. But I said, No, I don't hear voices. So I was really curious. I mean, I do I hear voices, as in I'm thinking, but I don't hear the negative voices to the point that you have done where you've had to really work hard to make them go away. So it was really interesting for me, because this was actually the first chapter that we took, I think it was the first one Correll curry, yeah, that we talked about. I was expecting maybe 50% of people to say, No, I don't have voices. And actually, everyone said, Yeah, yeah, we hit voices. So I was, am I the only one who doesn't and I was, I think I was the only one who didn't. And it was Benito, who said to me, You should be so so happy with that. Because you're incredibly lucky if you don't hear the voices. But it was it was very interesting to hear everyone else's story at what level the voices were, how they affected them, whether they were negative, some talking about positive voices. And that's absolutely fantastic. But that was the starting point of the discussion. And it really it taught me a lesson about, you know, kind of trying to understanding what so many people are dealing with on an everyday basis in terms of the certain amount of negativity. And it was very interesting, because I actually started asking people everywhere I went, and the most common people who don't have voices in their head come from communist upbringing, which is really interesting, right? But that's China, Eastern Europe. And you know, it made these people in business and I started just asking people, do you have voices in your head? Some people obviously looked at me like I was nuts, it would always opens up a great conversation, but the people who don't have them, I think it's important for them to understand the people who do have them, but also vice versa, because well, that's, that's all part of the healing of humanity's understanding each other. I don't think men have the voices as much as women do. But if we can understand that quality that exists in each other, or doesn't, it's very powerful. I mean, don't get me wrong, I do sometimes have a voice where I might think, Oh, I probably could have handled that a bit better. But it's never any sort of long term negativity. And but you're absolutely right, you with something we talked about a book club was about men not having those voices, because they're a lot more simplistic in the way that they think that was my first chapter. And it was really interesting to get to get a lot of feedback from everyone else. And it was Yeah, it was personal to me because we'd had quite a detailed conversation about it. So you finally understood the conversation from my perspective by reading I absolutely do because I thought you were crazy when you first had that conversation. No, I mean, I'm only joking. No, definitely. I understand it. So if I'm gonna make a habit of asking people from now on all right, crew, you can drag a truck Yeah, well, yeah, I would definitely read more than that. But for the purpose of the book club, we kind of focus on three I don't know if this one was on my bucket list, but it is one that I wanted to talk about. Because you do mention a lot of this type of stuff for was on the self empowerment. And we were talking about like as a young teenager having the Dali magazine, I guess that's a Australian, but we have the same you know, you have Teen Vogue tea, you know, all these Teen Spirit, whatever they are these these magazines and stuff growing up. And it's interesting having a daughter born and raised in Asia, that's so so focused on looks. So every day I have to spend so much time like we have to have conversations because even from four or five she would use words that beautiful and pretty which are not words I would have put in our vocabulary, but just being here, it's just something that she would hear from friends or from or or helper or things like that. So we've had some from a very early age, start talking about this thing, what is beautiful and beauty from within, when that's what you're addressing the chapter saying, you know, teaching that if you are the conventional, whatever the world at the moment says is beautiful, but You're a nasty person inside, then it's not possible for you to be beautiful. And that's such a strong message you said, you're doing that as a teenager. I don't know if it's sign at the time. But I'm having a conversation with my three year old for five every day having to drum it in and I think it's sticking but for sure it's still there. Like she still do you like this outfit I want you to she's in Asia, she has her hair is quite fair and curly, and she wants black long hair. And I'm like, well, already you want what's the opposite of what you have, because that's what she sees around her. And that's what's you know, the perception of beauty here. So, you know, spending a lot of time trying to I'm trying to lay all this foundation to make sure that she understand that we talk as like no beauties, when you're kind beauties when you are good to your brother beauties when you share your lunches, school, you know, stuff like that. So now she kind of gets when, when she says something but beautiful. And she's talking to her friend, she like quickly looks up and over at me. And then she's like, and also in your heart. Yes, NIH and VCs all swing your heart. So I'm like, Well, at least it's it's sticking. But I actually liked that conversation was under the topic of self empowerment. Because for a young girl and for a woman, those are the things that will enable her to be empowered as a woman going forward, whatever she's going to face. You know, I grew up in the Barbie era loved Barbies. My mother refused to buy a Barbie for me, she's like, no, because back in the day, there was only one type of Barbie. And my mother said, women don't look like that. Nobody looks like that. And she's like, you certainly don't look like that. So she wouldn't. So I'd sneak over to my cousin's house to play with Barbies. But the lesson was always still that you know, the self image, what's beautiful, all those things, that it's very diverse. And it's certainly about who you are and what you do. So I really enjoyed that chapter. So like I said, the biggest part was that you put it on the self empowerment, because I think that's huge. I don't think enough people spend enough time considering the negative impact of the images of the world have on them and their self esteem. Right. And that was the point I was really making around Dolly. But I think the children especially in our community, I think they're being raised by parents who are very aware whereas a lot of children don't don't have the benefit of aware parents, right. So you know, you look at the social media age and what's going on I look at the girls, the younger girls that you know, the boys are friends with and stuff and and I really worry about them and that life online, such a young age, and then you've got the whole fashion for small Girls Bras for four year olds, all that sort of nonsense, right? And again, you've got two teenage girls, two beautiful young teenage girls. I mean, well, it's super challenging. You know, like, that's the same. I mean, I'm right in it for me, you know, like, so chorale speaks with someone who's four, she can still send me resonates when I am and we all know, Naya. So I was I thought I was waiting till my got to your age, yeah, then I'll have this but I'm like, at this age, really, I have to start this conversation, I'm going to say facing that challenge. There's so many wisdoms of Andrea that I can apply basically, like mothering is weird. And, you know, again, I've got to surrender, I can only keep being, you know, sticking to my values. And again, you know, explain beauty from within, as you said, corral, and so on. I mean, I cannot control every social media. And then you have another wisdom, you know, entry about the social media, basically, of how to manage your children in it, you know, so that's the same thing as well. So for me, I have to keep repeating to them, you know, like, but I don't want to put all social media and everything else that's down. But I also have to explain to them that a lot of it is not reality. Do you know what I mean, by that their Android, you know what I mean? Like, you have to choose the platform and what you discuss and so on. And I think the only way I'm going to be able to survive is going to be communication throughout all these years, basically, trying to have good values myself, as well and walk the talk as well. I mean, I think I walk and work in fitness. And I always emphasize the fact that it's not about skinny and being this and being that it's about you know, being strong and healthy. And you know how much you're gonna invest in your, in your health now to be very healthy in your 30s and your 40s and 60s and 70s. Like, now I'm in my 40s. So I'm like I want to invest until I'm at 1819. So I don't think they do get it so much. All I can hope is well, you know, they understand, but that it's gonna stick with them. And they'll remember at some stage and go, Oh, yeah, resonates with me, like what mom said, and so on. But I mean, they exploring now everything right? They just, you know, they're teenagers as well. And they're trying to find themselves as well. So, yeah, I can only be there to support them the best I can and communicate with them. And hopefully, again, I think just values and honesty, and being with them is the only thing that's gonna save me, I think, yeah, and it communication. It's just all that the key. Both such amazing girls, they are powerful, and they are strong. And this I mean, there's sports, there's sports women, like I've watched, but both of them can do and they're amazing, you know, so yeah, but we've got to navigate the terrain of the teenage years. Yeah. Man, you know, me, Andrea, I'm not like a big, you know, the social media and this and this and that and like the technology, but it also keeps me on my toes. And it's true. Like I have to educate myself constantly to be able to keep up with them and see what's going on. So I educate myself. It also allows me to relate to them as well in their world and it's what's going to be in the future anyway. So yeah, it challenges me to keep up with them too. So I think it's really really really important with kids like cream for grilling Katie years or even younger, but they don't remember a world without social media. It's always existed right? So it's a it's a permanent part of their life into the future. And, you know, I've seen a lot of the, you know, parents conversations around social media and one a lot of the criticism is when they're not actively on it, and they're not actually actively seeking out what people are doing not just their own children, but across the board. But so we've got to pay attention, we've got to be there, we've got to participate. Because if we don't actually understand the platform's, it's very easy to stand back and criticize, but once you get into it and see it and feel it and experience it and see all the negative as well, as well as all the positives, then I think we can better parent our children through the crisis, years of social media and puberty and working out who they are. I mean, you're you're absolutely right, Andrea, we have to get involved but it literally is everywhere. So for example, Alia my son Oliver is 10 years old, and he is constantly playing Minecraft, but there's so much social media that's integrated in that there's group chats, there's trading, buying, selling, or so even at 10 he's already communicating with all sorts of people you don't know, right? You don't want to take it away from the boys because that's their communication platform, sharing homeschooling staying in touch with their friends, but you don't know if there's any question lately, and I really don't want to spend my time playing Minecraft and I just completely jumped into like this comes back to educate myself but you know, Katie, because exactly Henry will play Minecraft you know, we all have all these little friends and I've I haven't taken much interest in Minecraft, which means I need to take interest so last week was digital citizen for all the little ones and so on. So they're learning about it and data down and it had to this is my Henry was seven. So I'm thinking Minecraft is building stuff. I'm safe, I'm fine. And then no talking about digital citizen and being responsible. And we've watched a social media so he's the homework and his task was an action to show is a good digital citizen. I said, Okay, what are you going to do? He goes, Well, I think I'm gonna go and defend a lot of the people on Minecraft because I don't really know them. And I was like, excuse me. And that was a massive eye opener for me to just where did I kind of lose that because with the girls and a lot more, you know what I mean? I just thought they are my focus right now the girls and so on and, and I was pretty shocked actually said that. I think I need to take some interest in Minecraft now. It's I went with him Like, who do you know and stuff and but you know, like, he's seven. And I was already I'm like, wow, like, why did I there was a bit of a lesson of like, Yeah, but that's exactly it. Korean it is everywhere. Yeah. Have you guys seen snap map? No, no. All right. So we've been driving along and Jackson's snap map? Yeah, Jax will get his phone out and go out till he's somewhere at the beach. And I'm like, How the hell do you know that? Oh, Leanna. Snapchat? Yes, I do that. Yeah, if they make friends with people, they can see what where their location is, right? You know, social media is usually about making friends with people you don't know, that's kind of, you know, Instagram, Snapchat, tick tock. It's about building an audience. And it's about numbers. In most people's minds. It's not the way I think about it. But when I'm invited, you know, somebody who's could potentially harm your children into their life, they can actually see the very low game of the child. It's exactly the point of my Like, comment of like, keep up even more and just have communication of what's going on and what they use and understand and go through them, you know, the plan, whatever app, they're using, whatever, you know, and just understand and go oh, okay, so I just didn't think so. The whole point is like, it starts young, a lot younger than I thought. And boy, His voice is different. Like you were saying it with some gaming, it's completely different objects he loves social media likes, couldn't, couldn't care less about it. But gaming is, yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on there that Steve likes gaming, so he can keep an eye on that I keep an eye on the social stuff. But actually, there can be some quite heavy bullying online with the gaming. Ali's been at the tail end of a couple of times. And it certainly made him a bit more resilient. But I don't want him to deal with that at his age. So yeah, it's just something you have to keep really, like Corinne said, just really keep on top of the joys of parenting. Curran Did you have another chapter. And let's say for me, though, how I kind of like it's not that I'm a person, like, I'm one kind of person at work or one kind of person personally, but in some of the wisdom, some of them like I needed them more personally, for me on a personal level, if it makes any sense. And some of them really appealed to me from the works perspective, if it makes any sense as well, like I was just so without going through all of them, but and physically relevant now. So again, it's just coming back to the relevance of your book, and that you pick these wisdoms at a time that you are. So for me, there was use your time wisely during crisis, it's been challenging, obviously, with my business and having a gym that's been open, close, open, close and using my time wisely, and not just kind of go down and be you know, really down about it, but actually see opportunity and have these challenging times and think outside the box and constantly reinventing ourselves. So that really appealed to me that chapter, there was also something that I want to keep being as a leader. So you had I think, lead with compassion, be generous, be kind, and be a person of your words. So that was a good reminder for me in terms of, I mean, of course, as the person as well, but because it was all close with how you lead how you are laid out. So that was very powerful for me. So all of these kinds of 69 seven 71 wisdom were very powerful for me, I did like a lot of them, as you can see. And then in that time that we are because you know, we're going with the flow, slow down, calm down. So they were just Yeah, they were the one that you just, you know, you read them, you digest them also, like, as Katie said, and you just go right, close the book, and then it makes you reflect about it. And I'm going to be honest, like, I'm going to reread again, everything, but to actually do the activity book properly. And that was the way that I've always intended to read the book, first, read it first, take everything in, because I think there's a lot of content and it's very powerful, and then go again, and then just use more a lot of the activity as well with it. I'm not allowed to say go with the flow at home, there's no other choice, surrender, just go with the flow. And you know, and you had another chapter, like controlling everything as well, like, Well, yeah, it's just, you know, I think I like go with the flow. And my favorite, like, I think you've finished the book really powerful. Let's show up. That's one thing also for me, like, regardless of how hard it is, or you know, you have bad days or whatever, just and I've always said that also to my team, or my kids or just show up, you know, just show up at least just show up doesn't matter, but just show up. So I thought it was a good a good closure on the book. That was your last wisdom. If you actually read the whole book. Well, a lot of it Nice job. That's I'm saying, I go to the wisdom. I'm like, Okay, which one do I want to read now. And then it's a book that you pick up and you just drop it and you pick up again, all the time, I think I'm just trying to find one of the chapters that we thought was really, really reflective of Corinne, and that was being excited. And that's just so curried. It's awesome. Come on, I want to be excited pens, again, I said, I love that chapter if there was no for my personal action, like I just I'm sure used to be alone. I want to be an excited pants again, I couldn't even pronounce it. Remember. It's number 24. Corinne, you're always an exciting. That's just what we love you for, amongst other things, but in that chapter, I talked about being excited parents about royal weddings. So Katie, you reminded me to be an excited parents about royal weddings, right? Yes. And it's really good to remind each other to you know, life's good. You know, enjoy it be with people that make you smile and get excited about stupid stuff. And then that was a good one. And don't be a maybe that's my favorite one as well. Right now. There'll be a maybe I mean it to me, it's a yes or no, right? I don't feel like any of you guys are maybes. Do you feel like you have been in the past? No, I mean, no, I don't think we are say yes. Or we say no, it's not about how often you show up. It's about when you say you're going to do it, you do it. It's just commitment. You know, it's like, oh, I might have something you know, yeah, maybe box, I might just don't come not interested, you know, and then you stop inviting them as well. It's, it's interesting that you sit that way, like people would think they'll wait to have a better offer or something. So for me, it's just more like, I think it's just a bit of an uncertain time all around at the moment or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like the kids at home all the time online schooling, I don't know what's going to happen. So that's why I think I'm a bit more of a maybe, but and I just leave it up to them, like, you know, or I can't say no, that's my other thing. Or, you know, like just doing like, yes or no, and it's just about being a reliable person in people's lives. No, I was just saying. Absolutely. In terms of doing that deliberately. Like, it's funny when you explained it the way you did you know, we're making jokes about Korean. But that's like, that's not the way she is at all. But I've actually met you know, being here in Phuket and stuff, there's always something going on. And it took me a while because I'm not a maybe person at all, like to my detriment if I say yes, even I'm just gonna try to find every way to make it happen. But I started coming across you, but I didn't get it at first where they were always say yes, and then never show up. And then I realized that they always say yes, immediately, because it's right now on the calendar, it's the best thing and it's something going on, but I actually had to put them in a compartment to understand that there. Yes. Does it mean yes, it just means right now I have nothing else doing. But immediately that there's something else doing, they'll swap. And that was a personality that actually never come across before. So it actually took me a while to understand and then not get disappointed every single time. But when you realize you know just how that's just how some people are or how they're built or how they how they do things, then it was way my stress level starts to go down considerably less because I do not understand I'm like, this is kind of recurring all the time. And I'm like, Oh, it's just that's just how some people are just like that. It's just a time where you know, you do say stuff that you like gets in the way. And to be honest, I would like to be more like you in that way where I do say yes. And sometimes there's so much things that are going to suffer because I've said yes, but because I'm like I've said yes, my word is my bond, I'll have to do it. I really should back out I really to actually I can't or no, and it's not. It's not like I can't say no, it's just at the moment. I'm like, you know, actually, I should do this. I can do this. And I'm a time optimistic, optimistic persons. I always assume I can get it all done. It will be fine. But yeah, but sometimes sometimes you have to be like Actually, I failed. No, I can't. And then practice to think about properly before you say yes or before you say no. So that when you do give them sir or whatever it is, you know, sensible but that's the other point. Oh, women say yes too much because we feel this obligation or this sense of responsibility or women just aren't very good at saying no. Right. And I think we're guilty of that. And the only thing that helps seems to help that is getting a little bit older, but yeah, eat just you know, managing your energy levels, there's always like you said, there's always so much going on. But I first discovered this way in when I was living in Boston back, back at the end of the 90s. People would say yes to a dinner invitation at my house, and then they wouldn't show up. I just couldn't believe people would do that, you know? Like, how could you be like that? You've made a commitment. And I've cooked for you. And that was before the mobile phone technology we have today where there was this constant sort of talking to each other. And and yeah, so a bit expectations, what you're saying, like the bane of our life, our expectations, expecting people to be different to what they are. And once you worked out that group of people that said yes, but never showed up, I bet you none of them are good friends to you right now, there might still be here they might be in your life, but they won't be the people that you talk to and have deep, deep and meaningful conversations with right? Typically, I did not think about that. But you're absolutely 100%. Right, it's difficult to invest the time, if which I do want if it's good or bad, because there are a lot of people that are great people, amazing people that I'd love to have my life but being so maybe different from the expressions that I need or anything like that means that maybe I've not invested as much time as I would have before in developing that relationship with because friendship is a two way so it's all Yeah, it definitely has would have fallen off with people like that for sure. But I don't think that's fair enough. So then that's part of protecting yourself, you don't invest in a friendship that will constantly disappoint you because you're going to be constantly disappointed. And I see a lot of a lot of people who do that. And you know, that's the one thing that they could just learn to stop expecting better from people who never ever give it their life will be a little bit happier, or a lot more happier, whether it's family or friends about you, Katie, any any others that you you know, eco anxiety? Yeah, that's right. Can't say I particularly like this chapter, because it applies to me so much to deal with, how to deal with it, and how you go through these various stages and getting to the point where it really is something we cannot ignore. And I for one have buried my head in the sand so much. And this I could associate with this so much, Andrea, because I know when I start to really and you've always said to me, have you read this article, have you read that, and you're always trying to keep me informed. And I'll start or read certain ones, which I know I can find palatable. But when it gets to the heavy stuff, I just know, I'm gonna have to go through that very, very depressing, dark phase where I have to finally accept what's happening. And I almost started to go through those emotions reading this chapter. So that was a very interesting chapter. But I really didn't enjoy it. But I think everyone should read that chapter. Because I will certainly try and have a bit more climate courage and a bit more courage to to be more informed and to take a lot more action. Yeah, that was a great chapter, the other chapter. Did you remember though, Katie, on this one, I think it was good that you actually even if you hadn't, it was not a chapter you said, You got out of your comfort zone, and you bought into the table. Right? It was very nice. And I'm sure Andrew will appreciate that. But he brought some good conversation with all of us. And remember, we said, what are we going to walk away from this book club as well? And these? And we said, we're going to be accountable. And yeah, even on a small table of 10 that we were if it has this impact on anyone that's going to read the book as well. And then chapter the people, I think it's pretty cool. Actually, the anxiety if it's shared with others, do you know enemies? Yeah, we can all be in a better place and actually face it. And then because it's going to be a collective movement, obviously, to be more consistent and eco warriors and save the world and so on. So I'm going to acknowledge you for the courage of bringing that chapter anyway. And that was it, it was what like, we had a few walkaways. Actually, Andrew was one was like, yeah, to be accountable to each other, and just, you know, save Mother Earth. Yeah, because there were people that were like big eco warriors at the table. And they had even said that with COVID convenience. And a lot of other things had made them puts in a backseat where they were really like always aggressively doing these things. And when Katie brown stopped reminding them that they'd really fallen off because this time has changed our priorities. Also, you just not able to do certain things and a bunch of other things that happened during this time that made it fall off. And so she was committed, I made that she's actually I'm going to bring back all of that stuff. And really start focusing on that again, because it's important, I say it a lot. But I've been through it, like I go into into the depression many, many times because you can't read what I read and not go into depression sometimes. But I know, I know, when it hits, I know when to step away. And I'll always go back into it. That's what I see my role as is a distributor of information. And I'm raising awareness. And I'm trying to create ripples. And every person I've reached that can change the way they think. And then they ripple out and change their community. It's the only way and you know, there's a lot of gloom and doom about it. But if we can get enough of us together, fighting for the future, defining the future, we do have a chance. But when you read this stuff, you're saying there is no chance and there is if we look at the leaders around the world right now. Yeah, it doesn't look particularly good, right? The news around the climate crisis doesn't look particularly good. We can bank on them leading. But if all of us rise up and say this is what we want, and we fight for it, that's the chance. And you know, we've got the big climate summit happening in November in Glasgow, and that's supposed to be the place Where the future of humanity will be discussed and whether it happens or it doesn't, you know, and not all of the countries have committed yet put forward their plans, right? The only country on Earth even close to 1.5 is Gambia, you know, the UK. Yeah, my husband grew up, yeah, be happy to know that we're gonna hit 1.5 in the next five years, right. So we're all living in the part of the world where it's going to be 1.5, obviously, around the world, but we're in the part of the world where it's too hard to live. So while we can stay inside, in our air conditioning, a lot of the people in this area live in tin sheds, people won't be able to go out and farm and there'll be no food supplies, this is in the next couple of years. So we are, we're on the cusp of such dramatic change. And it's such a huge amount of crisis. And we you know, it's kind of up end all of our lives. And you know, I've been talking about it for years. And I know, it's a slow process with most people to sort of Listen, but I think maybe Finally, everyone's ready. And you need to give yourself the space to go through the depression. And the horror before you can come out the other side and go into action. Clearly, we did you have another one, wait and come back to mine if we've got more time because we're going to run out of time. Anyone else? Number 20. Trust your own counsel. And similar to Katie, I kind of pick things that were you know, relevant. And I'd say my screen you kind of pick it up, read a couple, pick it up, read some more and different things go back and forth. But that one, you know resonated in terms of the you were talking about other people will constantly be telling you things, and I think maybe it's a I think women do this as well, there's a bit more we take everything on, and I believe in information. So I'm interested in taking everything on and hearing what everybody has to say and all of that stuff. But I think about the big choices I've made in life, you know, I realized that like, you know what, actually the things that have worked out, or more important to me were things that ended up having to take my own counsel, which sounds like you didn't have people supporting you, that's not the case. But you booked puts it actually really, really well, where I started to understand that the advice was coming from their perspective, which wasn't always relevant to my own. And I remarked that people are not capable of being courageous in their own lives regularly projecting these fears on me. So you know, coming from a small island decisions, I mean, you know, married to somebody from Northern Ireland moving there adopt the university then quitting my job moving to China to do MBA, then the next move was to Thailand, my friends in Jamaica think I'm crazy. And my friends in the States, there's like, are you still living over there? Like, like, it's a different world, like, it's not a real world, like you need to come back to the real world. And I didn't understand why constantly hearing this and I and you book just nailed it. Like they have completely different perspectives. This is something I would probably quite fearful to them while To me it seems normal, like, why not? But it's, you know, it's something I was like, you know, I need that to stick because when I think about, like I said, the big good decisions I've made, you kind of have to shun all of that out. And then now that I realized, I'm like, Yeah, actually, they just come from a completely they're well meaning, but they will never understand and they'll never get it. So there's no point in trying to figure out or trying to have the conversation, you just gonna have those people that will be naysayers, not not because they want to be or they want to hurt you is that they come from a place that you aren't coming from. And that was a really, really good takeaway for me like moving forward in terms of understanding because again, I like to take on the information I want to, you know, to make sure I make the best decision with all the information I have. But sometimes, and I think more often than not the people, they're saying no to something, their information isn't relevant, because they're not you or they don't have the they haven't walked in your shoes or that are wired the way you are. So I think it's important, but then I'm like, actually, you know what you aren't me. And so this is this is never going to happen this way. So that was really cool for me to take away from people to be courageous enough to be able to walk into the future that they want, without being impacted by other people's opinions that aren't relevant. You know, you say it all the time. And you know, and everyone's got people talking at them, telling them what they should do, and just having the courage to say, but that's not what I want, and then going and doing what you want. The only thing I did for the rest of my life was help people identify that and move forward and to chase their dreams because you meet far too many people who were impacted by that. And they've never lived the life they wanted to live. And I always feel so heartbroken when I hear that we've all been courageous in our lives. But a lot of people are scared too. And then they don't like their lifes and become angry and bitter and resentful. And they get jealous and and it's like, no, don't, don't be like that. Go and do it. Now. You might have missed it. But do it now, you know, and trust yourself. I don't know why we don't. And we're not taught to trust ourselves. Why are we not all of us, right? Because I think sometimes or positive voices become so small compared to everything else around you know, and like I do surround myself with strong people. So their voices are very loud and constant. So it's just again, putting it in that compartment that okay, and it's not, it's not necessarily Oh, people hate us. It's not people trying to be mean or trying to pull you down. It's just they don't understand you, their advice will never be relevant. And sometimes it's because people are a little bit cautious about taking those steps themselves. True. So therefore, they project that onto you as a person as well, for sure. Instead of encouraging Yeah, I have to say like, that's one of the things that I love about my husband, he is not a courageous move, like every time it's dragging him kicking and screaming. He's like, Where do you want us to move? What do you mean, China? We're moving back to Jamaica. What? No, like, it just it's called every couple years. He's like, you're serious. But he will say that we know it. He's the most easygoing, he's like, you're gonna be fitting, and you're gonna be fine. And he always is, and he knows this. So, you know, we might go back and forth a little bit, but he's ever single time packed up and made the move. I mean, very happy to, you know, I'm very fine with it. But I wish there would be more people like that, where even if they're not naturally courageous, just like, go with the flow, Steve, and just go for it. And it's, it always works out. That's that Chris is like, yeah, I can throw Chris in a room with anybody anywhere, and is perfectly fine. He just has that, you know, personality is blends in and makes it work and just actually got Steve taking huge risks, like, no jobs, nothing, just Let's go, there were some times and he was like, oh, I'll go, what do you get me into, but he did it. I was I was really proud of him, I got him to sort of really step into a different way of being because there was always when we first met, he goes, right, so we're obviously going to be together. So we should start thinking about saving up buying a house. And I'm like, why do you want to do that? He goes, Well, you know, that's what you do, right? I don't want to do that I got no interest. So that's not the sort of life I'm looking at leading. And then you know, every time we talked about it more and more, he started to understand where I was coming from. And there's times when he goes back to it, like, you know, we haven't got the security. And I'm like, there is no such thing as security. There's not an arm at the age where all my friends are starting to get divorced, and they've got less than we got. And they've starting again, you know, at the same age. So I figured that the whole climate thing, I've been paying attention to it for a very long time, even I'm surprised by how quickly it's happening. But I got a new in our lifetime, the path of that was set out for all of us, when we were raised was not going to be a path that would be available to us in the long run, most will have a good time, I'm having a realization I want to share that with you ladies like as we speak. And it's you know, and your book does say so that, Andrea that everything is you know, related and come back to it and whatever but we're getting the full live proof of it actually has me chatting and stuff. And you're talking about the council, one actually corral and now the little voice are coming back from me in my head now. Like, I think also that's like in combinational. So we've listened to you in Council. I mean, that's how I think I've made a lot of my decision on do this. And like all these decisions I've made that's kind of brought me from Quebec to Australia to you know, Singapore and all that stuff. It's again, like these little voices and the big voices of people when you have conversation with others, which is great, because again, it's just getting and gathering more information like Carl said, but it will be my little inner voice anyway, eventually at the end of the day and my own counsel next to me taking all these decisions and trusting myself but I think having voices is great Corinne is just when they become too negative we having voices there plays devil's advocate curse, they make you think about stuff, but just don't let that don't let that negativity get in because particularly if it's not something you can fix, then don't let it get you down. I mean, that's that's my view. Anyway. Yeah. So key voices really positive thoughts all depends little. I don't want to get that into the into the dictionary doesn't exist as a word. We've been overwhelmed, but it's up to you guys. I'm sure you want to go and do something else. There was one more chapter curl and Corinne, please do sort of jump in at there's another one in particular that he wanted to talk about. But it was the chapter 64, which I think curl was yours, a book club, don't lose yourself in challenging times. And I think this was this was very interesting for me, because we've all had very challenging time. And it's about how you survive as a family or as a couple as a person how you keep your positivity, your motivation and your your vision through those those times and your story in particular Andrew was is absolutely amazing about about Lex and about Jackson there. And I know we've spoke about it before, but the the determination that you've had to deal and to do the absolute best for your boys is is amazing. This was one we talked about in Book Club, and I think all of us appreciate it's your complete vulnerability. Yeah, and only in that chapter. But of course, it was captured even more in that chapter. But the book also overall, I think we've all really admire you for putting yourself out there so much in that book. Yeah, that's very good. It was the popular it was actually Benito and corral 64 was a popular wisdom. So much is going on. And we're all juggling so many balls. And it is this challenging time that it's just thrown in the world right now that it really is important to I think the point of that chapter was to stay the course there's certain things that we know as truths within ourselves within our family or these type of things. And there's so much noise and distraction right now, or we're just so tired or stressed out. You could just easily just drop the things that were your true self. Were you truths just for some peace or the easy route or anything like that, especially in this time. So it was really motivating to remind you to say, you know what, you know, you know what's best, you know, watch rights, and there's a lot of things going on, but just stick with it just stay the course. That was amazing. That was a very late inclusion. But I've read a lot of books that sort of try and motivate people and inspire people. And the thing that always annoys me is when I don't think that they've suffered enough to actually have the right to the wisdom that they're trying to share. It's because until you really know how shit life can get, it's hard to carry you stay sane in the middle of really, really hard times. Right? So it was a late inclusion. But when I had the sort of final read through, and I knew I needed to put that story there. And obviously, it was hard for Steve to read it. He still struggles a lot through that time. But obviously, we've helped each other through it. And he still feels anger towards some of the people and I can't hold it that anger because it's just not who I want to be. Yeah, so I knew I needed to write it just to show people that I'm not someone who's got this wonderful life. He's just giving out all these life advice. I'm person that's had lots of deep complexity in hard times. And I don't come from Melton, you know, but I am privileged some white, I'm female, I grew up in Australia, being able to travel the world, right? So I am privileged. But like I said, right at the very beginning, this book isn't for people who are drowning in the oceans, you know, if you're a big trying to escape, right, it's for the rest of us. Because I think if the rest of us can just rise up, stop spending our time on shit, that doesn't matter. And stop being angry. And, you know, I was just I saw this quote today as Socrates quote, and I'm a big fan of Socrates. And this is part of this workshop. But the secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old but I'm building the new, and it just sort of popped out at me today. I just, that's exactly where we all need to go so much fighting the old within ourselves, within our families, within our communities with around the world, you know, but looking in new direction together, and start building the new and, you know, I hope I can be part of the moment that, you know, helps people think to move forward there. So thanks for reading that chapter. Thank you for writing. Alright, well, I think I'll let you ladies go. But thank you so much for doing this. Next time. We're having a Sandra. Yes. Thank you very much for having us. We're dealing with wine next time. I want to talk to you guys all individually. Anyway, but yeah, no, I just yet to know how people felt reading the book. And the fact that the some of the ladies there, I don't really know them. That was great as well. But to know how people feel when they read it and, and knowing that there's so many different bits for so many different people and, and also men are reading it. You know, Chris, it's like, brilliant, right? Because I was hoping men would pick it up, but I'm sure Simon will never touch it. I made him read the chapter on wine. And yeah, it's not Simon advice. It's for everybody else would migrate and cream Jurgen, he would write I'm sure. I mean, you know, I've had the girls also. I mean, of course, my girls find it quite interesting. Like, you know, particularly when I got the book, because they know that it's you and your Jackson next month, you know, so they, you know, they pick up a few chapters and so on. But I do believe that they'll pick it up and read a few, you know, wisdom and so on. Yeah, of course, my husband will pick it up at some stage when he does have the time to read something. Absolutely. You know, I hadn't really thought to get Ali to read this. I mean, he's 10 but actually, that's a great idea. I might just pick out a few very special chapters that would be palatable for him. He'll read them Andrea because they're from you. So yeah, the big positive of your book there. I think Andrew and I, you know, I've read many self help books and things like this, and I keep reading them. There's it's always work in progress, but it's just very accessible. You know, like, there's some of them that you mean, it's just so complicated and it's greatly you can understand the behind whatever, but just you made it accessible for all people and exactly it's like you know, maybe there's some chapters will be more complicated for my children to read but I think a lot of it you know, Chile or Kenya would pick it up and just go Okay, and even if they don't understand to the depth that they should, they'll still walk away and get something out of it. I think it's a very good thing. You know, it's just it's really you as expressing it to reach out to as many people as possible and I don't mean like to say Oh, it's simple or whatever, like it's just, you know, still written in a beautifully intelligent way but to reach out to as many people as possible good i'm glad it's not written in a simple way. No, no, exactly. No, no, no. It's approachable but I didn't know what how I was going to feel reading it and I was just so glad that it was a page turner Oh, I like to go through you know, and be able to read and I was like, Oh, I'm getting through this really well you know, for people that wouldn't even pick up this genre at all. It's amazing in your written like, you have done it so you can reach a wide audience for sure. Do not you know, it's been 20 years reading self help books just to try to understand the genre and then so 20 years so it started with just the self help books in and evolved into influences speakers all that this is the sort of weird mind I've got and I'm like, if I'm ever going to write something, I need to work out what makes it successful, right? And I realized that nothing I saw in the bestseller list was aligned to who I am and what I could write. So yeah, that was a really interesting process. So someone like Robin Sharma, I love his blog. And his books are fun to read. But they're so simply written because he's obviously trying to attract a wide audience. But he's blogs, a lot more intelligence, the integrity of my message and who I am has to be consistent across everything. That's just who I am. So yeah, so thank you, do you Exactly. That's a real conversation. I've had a million times, you know, especially females, you get to early 30s. And you're like, oh, all the guys are scared to me. Maybe I should, you know, just keep doing you. Don't show up. God, if someone showed up for me if they showed up, man, I shall for you trust me. Anyway. All right. So thank you so much. I really, really, really, really appreciate it. Thank you for doing the book club, but also for doing this. And yeah, it's been really cool for me to listen to and I really appreciate it. Congratulations. And well done. Thanks. Yes, yes, yes. Congrats. Okay. Take care guys. Bye. Beautiful was that Korean Korean and Katie, thank you so so, so, so much for doing that with me. I don't think you'll ever really truly appreciate what it means. A lot of people think I doubt my book. It's not a doubt, it's hard to know how a book like mine is going to resonate until people actually tell me what it means to them. So very, very special for me to hear what it means to you guys, but also to all the other ladies that are in the book club. So thank you to all of you for choosing my book. And if you're doing a book club and my books part of it, I'd love to love to be part of the conversation if it's appropriate. Big thanks to Priscilla Joseph who is my lovely assistant and she's taking on the job of editing and she's doing a fabulous job, Gary Kraus who is composed all of the music in my all of the different podcasts and if you want to get in touch, he's legit and music Paquette but I'm happy to make an introduction. If you want to help me be successful with my podcast, you can rate and review the podcasts on whatever platform you listen to them on. And you can follow me on Andrea t edwards.com. It's also my social media name. And my other website is uncommon dash courage.com. So there you go. Another podcast very, very grateful, very happy and I'll speak to you soon. Cheers. Let's talk about that stuff to say all of this stuff. Common common