The Know Show – impartiality is critical, unnecessary if you’re on the same “side”

A big news story that circulated the world this week, was Gary Lineker’s comments on the British government’s refugee policy. We couldn’t miss this news (it was EVERYWHERE), but it opened up a bigger conversation about impartiality and the inconsistency of how the “rules” are applied! Not just a British story, and not just a story about journalists offering political opinions, this is a wider story of who can speak up, and who can’t. We are looking forward to discussing this in the theme section, right after we cover the main news that’s worth attention. 

We are delighted to welcome Sagar Amlani, The Productivity Explorer. He’s a global keynote speaker, working with organisations and individuals to build The Productive Mindset. He’s an author, LinkedIn productivity strategist and consultant, and we are thrilled to have him join us this week. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the climate crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics, business, social issues, and passion/humor/history. Join us. 

 
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Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Welcome to the no show. My name is Andrea Edwards. And my name is Joe Augustine. And Tim Wade is actually having a great holiday as we speak. But in his place we haven't we've yet we have invited a special guest to join us and his name is saga. I'm Lonnie. He's a productivity explorer coming out of India. I know nothing about productivity, as my friends will tell you. Tell me what you do. So hello, everyone, and thank you for having me in the show. And yes, I am from India, residing in Gujarat. And I'm an author of two books, and I work with business owners to help them improve their productivity and build an autonomous work culture. If you want to know more about my books, just Google my name and I'll be there on your screen. Thank you. As always, we've gathered for the no show is a show that basically tries to talk about the news that perhaps wasn't as sexy enough to be taken by clickbait, or we're catching your attention that way. And of course, we have a weekly theme as well. And our theme this week is all about being What's the word for impartial, or at least the the requirements for impartiality. And for those of you who were able to miss it, I must confess, Andrea, even though you said that it was everywhere, I think that's a sign of social media. I managed to miss most of it. But yeah, it's quite bizarre, this part of the world what it is, what it was, like, in my corner of the internet, but basically, he made some personal comments, and they were political in nature. And that kind of ran up against the whole BBC thing. So we're gonna come back and talk about that. In a while. Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually shocked he could possibly have missed it. It was so huge, and in so many different ways, because it's, you know, it's it's my least elegant headline so far. We have to agree right? impartiality is critical, unnecessary if you're on the same side. But I spent days like thinking, How do I even present this as an idea because it's actually so much more than that. It's also about refugees, and how we talk about our fellow human beings. So there's a lot to the story. So I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys think. And before we get down to the the meat of the day, shall we say we we always review the news? So a big week that went by and especially for, we'll call it Asian cinema? I think everybody was on board with the news from the Oscars. Yeah, no. I mean, you'd have to be under a rock to have missed it. But big weeks, especially for Asia the very first time a female Asian is one of the best actor award for that, obviously, for the for that category. Michelle Yeoh, which was awesome, but favourite moments and knowing moments, what was the standout for you guys? Oh, Will Smith wasn't around, which was good. I liked that they actually had I think they had hired someone to be there to help them make those decisions. If something happened, what would they do immediately in the moment? Because I think the lesson from last year was there was no one had worked out the ethics of what was going to happen if something happened. And so this year amongst the many people that they hired, besides, I guess, more security at the edge of the stage. They also made sure that they had someone whose job it was to make those quick decisions in the moment should they come up? And fortunately, none of those did. Yeah. So they didn't want to be impartial to the audience and other people out there. But about two years ago, what was your moment when Oscar for us was an amazing moment because first time in India and the news all over the place was just singing the song now to natto if you've not heard the song just to build a song that in order from our head when Arara and it's absolutely a catchy choreography, what all different dance moves, and absolutely different, you know, people coming whites, Indians, and you know, the woman coming out and doing different dance forms. And basically the movie was shot or the song was shot in military, which is the heart of India, the elephant whispers and it's absolutely a stunning city to be in. So if you want to be next time in India be in good ease. And if you want to hear the song not to not do why did it win the Oscars? Just Google it. Yeah. And then even Lady Gaga, right. I think Rihanna was what was that for a song as well. So, yeah, yeah, that song actually made for the Golden Globe Award as well apart from Oscar. So it also won the critics choice. So yeah, it's been doing rounds in many other awards. Yeah, nice. It's, yeah, it's a lots of pride in Asia Pacific, you know, right across the region. Obviously, I can't say his name. When you guys helped me Qi Hua Kuan the guy in everything else. Yeah, okay, so easy if you just say, I'm an Indiana Jones fan, obviously sorry, as a boy. So he's whole refugee story was really beautiful. But there was another side, another little story. There's always lots of stories coming out. And that is, apparently Hugh Grant was rude. Right? And that got some attention. But I actually looked at the clip, and the lady interviewing him, he was talking about a classic piece of classical literature and the lady interviewing him, turned it into sort of pop culture. And I think it was more, he was baffled, maybe confused, or maybe even concerned about the intelligence of the person asking him the question, but I thought that was another little side story that was going on. That was good. But anyway, let's get stuck into the big news. All right. So I'm going to do just quickly go through a few. So I don't know if you've been paying attention. But there's a lot of stuff going on in Israel at the moment. Netanyahu is back. And it's very much right leaning government that the biggest protests that ever seen have been happening. And that's about changes to the judiciary. In France, we're also seeing mass protests. And it's now at the point where they've decided not to vote for it, it's just going to happen, there's going to be a lot more shenanigans over these, this is one of these stories where, from a refugee perspective, right, so if the French want to keep the retirement age as it is, and they start they have to start accepting refugees into the country. So those people can earn money to take care of the older generation. So to me, it's all it's all linked. The US, UK and Australia or orcas that deal, the submarine deal has been done. Paul Keating, who's a former Prime Minister of Australia, liberal, liberal, liberal labour, and he's liberal right now his labour claims it's the worst deal in history, which is obviously not pleasing Albanese. But the really, really big political story that came out yesterday was in the Netherlands of all places, did you have a chance to have a look at that one, I didn't share it with you because it only just came out. But it's being described as a political earthquake. And basically, there's a farmers particle called the BB B. And it's completely stunned Dutch politics. And it's set to be the biggest party in the House of so in the, in the upper house of parliament. So basically, it was only set up in 2019. And it's on the back of all these widespread farmers protests. So the last time I was in Amsterdam in the summer, there was protests going on. And it's an environmental thing. And it's also an EU thing. And it's about dramatically reducing farms and livestock on farms, and also buying out 1000s of farms. This appeal of this party has spread well beyond the rural community. And it's become a really sort of a populist party, which speaks to Dutch values, and conservative Dutch values, and moral values. But the Greens have got 15 seats, the main coalition party with the prime minister have fallen by eight seats down to 24. So you can sort of see the big numbers, the turnout for the vote was 57.5%, the biggest turnout ever. And to me, it's just another example of we all need to be really focused on making sure we vote for the future that we want. Because other people who are different to us and then their opinions, they're voting in bigger numbers than ever and using shocks like this. But the biggest thing for me is it's a really bad outcome for the environment. Moving on another big story, especially which has environmental ramifications is with one of the headlines. Biden just betrayed the planet and his own campaign vows. And this is obviously ConocoPhillips project called Willow, and is being described as a carbon bomb. So basically, it's set to puncture largely pristine wilderness that's relied upon by the local communities, and it will access more than 600 million barrels of oil over the next 30 years. And that's basically the equivalent of Spain's total emissions as the country. It's incompatible with any sort of scenario to fend off global warming. And also it goes against Biden's climate agenda. And he's promising that in 2020, which is no more drilling on fan federal lands period, the US really got behind Biden, so this is going to have a big impact. It's I think he's it's about moving to more centrist position to get more votes. Al Gore said it was recklessly irresponsible, and would cause climate chaos. But you know, all these stories, they're not as straightforward as everyone thinks they are. One of the reasons was, they basically knew that Conoco Phillips would win in court, if they rejected it, so, you know, go for it anyway. But then there's a lady called Mary Pelton Ella, who's a Democratic Congresswoman and the first Native Alaskan to hold a position. And she actually called for the approval of the so there's a lot of different aspects to these, I don't know how it's going to play out in the long run. But the best hope for this is get it started at six years until they'll be able to get oil out of it. And they hope it becomes obsolete almost immediately. But, you know, if we look at towards the suppose that 2050 data of no more fossil fuels, it already goes beyond that date. So I think one of the my favourite comments was from The Guardian, they said, Willow could prove to be one of the last last beat benders before we properly get sober. And I thought that was a cool way of describing it. But Joe, I know you've been really busy in doing all sorts of stuff. But a lot has also been going on in the financial sector are well, there's been, there's been a big party called the bank rush, I first of all, I want to, I want to make sure that I am very clear about this, I am not an expert. I was I felt called out reading one of my friends, making a comment about how everybody seems to be an expert. And I want to be very clear that I'm not an expert, it hasn't stopped me from having an opinion. But I want to just make sure that you're clear that it's not a place of expert that I'm talking from, when the first news came out of Silicon Valley Bank, sort of going under. And then the reason I mean, the reason these things happen with banks, first of all, is the nature of banks, how banks are created. And it's a licence. It's an ability given by the government to a group company, whatever it is, to take deposits, and then based on that to give out a credit as well. So there is a kind of magic that happens. And I say magic, because it doesn't make sense. When you look at it from a logical point of view, you know, I put $1 in the bank, I can loan out 90 cents, if you put that 90 cents back with me, I can loan out some 80 Something cents, and if you lower than that, if you put it back in my account, I can loan out another 70 Something cents. So there's a multiplier effect that creates money. But it also creates a kind of very special, interwoven relationship, that if you start wanting to have those withdrawals come out, then you are the bank has to come up with the money for it. But because of this multiplier effect, the money kind of literally isn't there. So banks actually continue to do to move based completely on the idea of confidence. And these are the people who criticise crypto, anyway, a separate point. But the idea is banking itself is a concept was really abstract. And what happened with Silicon Valley is our Silicon Valley Bank is that there's always a bunch of people who know stuff ahead of everybody else. So some people got wind of some of the difficulties that they were going to have. And so if you get wind ahead of time, and you know that, okay, this bank is gonna have trouble fulfilling its, its withdrawals, you tell your friends to go ahead and do that. And so there's a rush of people to make sure that their money is first out, and they're not caught with the with the pants down. And that built on itself. And because everyone showed up at the same time to say, Where's my money, you have what you call a rush in the bank, the bank cannot meet those things. And the reason why that happened was well as because the bank and on the flip side and mitigate its risks. The bank goes into things like investments and stuff like that. Investments, which were pretty alright, investments before all the big changes in the economy, because what happened was the when banks tend to mitigate a lot their risk by investing in bonds, but because of all the massive changes in the interest rates, those bonds became far less profitable. And so when they had to liquidate, liquidate those as well, there were a lot of losses that came all at once. So that's where you have a situation where everybody wants the money, I don't have the money. And then we have to say I will I put my hands up and say, you know, where we can meet that we close out, we close ourselves down. What happened is, the US government jumped in, in a way which, but it's really not supposed to, I mean, in terms of deposits and the FDIC insurance, which is to insure, you know, it's supposed to protect the everyday man. So if you are someone who has a deposit of up to I think 250,000, it's protected by insurance. But if you had deposits that are much bigger than that you're not so that would have created a real bad problem, because a lot of companies also kept their money with the bank, and they wouldn't have been protected by insurance. And that would mean a whole cash flow issue. And that would be then it'd be a cascading effect no money here to pay other people, other people can pay other people and then a whole thing a whole bunch of things happen. So Americans rushed in saying that the covering insurance for all depositors. It's very important to understand as well that they are not covering investors. because investors are people who put in money, knowing the risk, and they're prepared to lose the money. So people who are saying it's not fair for that purpose that they're actually wrong, investors are not being covered by this. It's only the depositors are being covered this way. But the big problem is everything is linked together. So Silicon Valley Bank isn't just a bank by itself, it's linked to companies that are linked to other companies are linked to other companies. And that contagion has found its way all across into Europe, where a name that you always hear as being one of the stable names, has now had its share price has come completely under fire. It's Credit Suisse. Because Credit Suisse that's been going on for a while, right? That's been brewing. It's always been been brewing. It's one of the you know, it's one of the, if you talk about a good name, you know, like a year ago, you look at what what you would have in a banking portfolio, you definitely have to have some Credit Suisse in it, right? It's just that it's turned so sour for them. And it's always about liquidity. So a little bit like what's happened on the other side, someone's usually behind this and sort of like, like a providing the liquidity to make sure that they can pull through those difficult times. But they've had their most loyal investor, I can't remember the name of the person, but from the Middle East, who basically said, I'm out. And that's really, really caused problems. It's a very interesting situation. Will Europe allow Credit Suisse to fail? Or will it jump in, like the US, you know, and bring it up? I have a feeling Europe is a little bit less inclined to do things the way the US does, they usually a little bit more stoic in terms of failure. But this is, it's something that could be very, very big for them as well. Now, I think that gives you a quick flavour, what's happening with the banking stories, and as a result of all the banking stories, stock markets, everything like that, be very careful, because the contagion is there, it just, you just need another kind of a big story to happen and collapse somewhere else. And it can cause everything, everything, the flavour, everything else does sort of go the wrong direction as well. What people have been completely confused by is how you can have this much bad news and still have the stock market claim. You can because of that kind of enthusiasm people going like it's going anyway, it's going anyway, I'm going to try and get in on this. But it's built on very, very light infrastructure, as in like, if something just collapses or pulls or some some something happens, everyone's going to rush for the door to get out. And with stock markets, and with all markets, it's not how fast you get in it's the size of the exit when you try to leave. Well, one of the one of the stories, I mean, there's lots of stories, but the turnover at Credit Suisse of the CEOs was quite interesting, but where it said, there's basically the SV SVB collapse, the majority of the companies impacted by the client startups. So there's another ramification off the back of it, which kind of, you know, I found a bit heartbreaking. Cigar plastics. Yes, I was, I was really at all when Joy explained the whole psychology of you know, one that goes to 90 cents, and then 80 cents, which means just $1 of investment, has a plethora of investors in line and plethora of lenders enlightened borrowers in line. So $1 If you actually compound it can end up in almost eight plus dollars. So it's called it's all a multiplier. So depends what. Yeah, it's how much money you have to hold. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you, Joe, for that explanation. And it was wonderful. Coming from in chemical engineer, I would talk about plastics, and how are they actually impacting all of us around us? So we've been hearing about plastics, causing issues, plastics, causing cancer, plastic, causing many other diseases. But does it mean it's all the plastic or it's only a specific group of plastics or specific type of plastic that's causing it? Well, the recent jury has been identifying the impact of plastic on humans. And we know it's in our bodies because even though we don't agree, the supermarkets we go the malls we go. We have the films we have the containers, which are plastic, we have the packets which are plastic, even the biscuit trays, or pet plastics. So can we avoid it? 100%? No. So the studies have gone into the details of the jewellery is that it's gone into the blood organs, it's gone into hormones, it's gone into our brain. It's also entered the breast milk. And that is more concerning, because that's the purest form of milk that the mother gives to her child. And if that is getting contaminated, it's a worry for all of us as a human race to think about. Now, does it mean that it ends there. No, it's actually ended up as fewer people to take disease linked to cancer call plus resources. And it's also found not only in humans, but it's also got into birds. It's also got into animals because they feed on the plastic waste that we have stone either in the sea or somewhere else at the landfill in India, of course, and that is started causing the whole ecological system. So be it vegetarian or beat a person who is eating meat, we are all open to cancer, we are all exposed to cancer, which is caused to plastics. Now, that is a cause of concern. And the recent study done by Australian government has shocked everyone because it has revealed that given the tiny birds that are flying around the coast, and in the coastal regions, they have been found loaded with plastic waste in their systems in their stomach. And it doesn't end there. As I said, it's also been a recent study that it has hit the hormones in the stomach, it has also got a stain or the thing that it's the hallmark of cancer. Because out of 20 different types of brain cancer, this cancer, which is caused by plastic is the highest. So think about the next time when you really want to use plastic and its impact on the environment. So try and reduce plastic, everything starts small, you can be a contributor from your sides, if you think you can contribute by reducing plastic, take a step. It's a to me, that was a really big piece of news, because it's they haven't been able to prove the link between disease and plastic in our bodies. And it was one of the first that I've seen where they're actually proved the link. And I think that's a really important one. Because the arguments against plastic have been clear for a long time just from the environment, right? So, you know, let's hope they do something about it. Alright, so I remember in 1999, and, you know, 2000, I did a project on recycling of plastic, and it did not see the light of the day because then people said it's not a problem. And now it's clearly the problem. It's massive. I talk about a lot to the Middle East. And there was this amazing article in Reuters, which I found. You know, there's, there's some big geopolitical changes going on in our world. And I think a lot of people are not paying attention. But basically, China or Beijing is in the middle of trying to make Saudi Arabia and Iran friends again. And if you don't know, they haven't been friends for a very long time. But it's it's it's it's a bigger deal than than what people are sort of maybe aware of. So Saudi is obviously against the Houthi movement in Yemen. But Iran has always backed the Houthis. So it's been a military stalemate. For years, people over there are suffering horrendous conditions. But if they restore the ties between Saudi and Iran, this could actually facilitate great facilitating agreement between the Saudis and the Hutus and maybe even in that war, then you look at a country like Syria, right? We all know what's been going on there. So her Iran has been supporting Assad in his isolation. China has also kept up ties with Syria. But Saudi has been backing insurgents to topple around or to topple Assad and weaken Iran. Right. So this sort of insurgency backed by Saudi has been waning over the years. But basically, what's what they're looking at now is taking Syria out of Arab isolation, and could actually return them to the Arab League. It also looks at what's going on in Lebanon, what's going on in Iraq, but also maritime security in the Gulf waters, we're, of course, most of the world's oil, trans transit. So it's a massive, massive story. And I don't know we're not really hearing that much about it, but I definitely think it's one that's worth keeping an eye on. Yeah, do you guys have a look at that one have a chance to see it. It sounds like a very interesting puzzle to solve and extended to say they can solve it to them should go the spoils of war as much as Americans will hate to hear that it's a bit of going I mean to the to the to the victor or it's not the spoils of war is the spoils of non war I think it's very interesting thing. I think one of one of the primers that has really been put out there as a price that the US will pay somewhere along the way, I think it is paying a price already is always this the sense of American supremacy or that ability to do everything and be number one and all that kind of stuff. And they have left people out of the game as when they're playing a game. They don't bring everyone to the table. And one of the people one of the I will say I say people but one of the country's really that's been left out most times has been China and China instead of trying to now get Have a seat at the table is building tables. Yes. Yeah, fast furniture to another story on the climate. I hope everyone's got the news about Greenland, which has been experiencing temperatures 50 degrees above normal. And this is obviously on the back of Antarctica, which is just now coming into its winter period, after the what I would consider the great melt. Obviously, it's refreezing as the temperature gets colder, but it's still well below its normal. extent, I 16 extend for this time of year. But there's another story that probably didn't get that much attention. And it's by the University of Gothenburg. So in my weekend, reads, look out for Arctic climate modelling to conservative and basically, just due to the environment in the climate, that it's relatively few observations are actually even been able to be made in that part of the world. And what that means is the climate models used for projecting the future of the Arctic, have not been calibrated to the same extent as other parts of the world. And so basically, what they're saying is, it's going to proceed at a much faster rate than projected by current climate models, including IPCC reports. There's another video that I'm going to put in my weekend rates, which is a couple of old professors talking about Arctic melt and as well as Antarctica, which is quite alarming. But if you can get underneath the noise that's going on in the world, there's, there's some real conversations going around the threat to all of us from from the melts on both of the poles as well as Greenland. So that's a big one. Second. You're on mute there. Yep. So I'm saying, as you rightly said that it's definitely increasing, and they've not been able to align it, the numbers that I came across, while I was reading to the same news article, it's actually four times faster than predicted, which means the ice is melting four times faster, that's causing issues whirled around but specifically in India, if I talk about there is a warning that the whole of West Coast, which includes the financial capital of India, Mumbai, will be underwater by 2016. And that is something really very shocking. And that is the impact of all these meltdowns happening all around the world, because that's actually adding up to the waters in the ocean. And that's impacting a lot of areas. So that's from my side of the world. All right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Do you think it's 2060? Well, they said it's 2060. And that's what I'm reading about. But like you said that earlier, they predicted something else, and it's four times faster. Well, if their prediction is wrong in this one, then we see it before we leave. So by the end of this year, we're so linear has officially is officially over all of the things that they measure in the signs of linear, they're gone. There's maybe a couple of lagging things, but by the end of this year, they're actually predicting a super El Nino. So that's sort of, you know, coming into the last quarter of the year, so keep an eye out for that. And obviously, with with our Nino comes extreme heat, and I know in India right now you guys are moving into an extreme heatwave as well over the next few months. A year already familiar. It's already 36 right now. Yeah. And it's one should, should have been? Yeah. What should have been at this time, when it should have been somewhere around 3032? Because if it's 36 and 38 Right now, by the time it comes me, we will touch 45? All right, what about what's going on in North Korea? Well, North Korea, as they said, COVID. And there is a concerning news that North Korea has completely shut its borders with the world since COVID. Now, even its border with China has been shut off. And there is multiple news sources that are suggesting that there are deaths due to starvation. There are certain experts who will read or who are saying that it's the worst point in the history of Korea since 1990. February, that may have caused massive starvation and killed hundreds and 1000s of people and estimated maybe 5% of the population was wiped out, which was 20 million strong then the question is, how do they know it? Or how are they predicting it? Or how are they talking about it? While they're talking about based on the trade data, the satellite images that are being shared by United Nations the assessment made by the United Nations and support from the South Korean authorities they all supply that the food supply chain has completely dipped and has been very, very Law to satisfy the minimum human needs. And that is a concern because that's one country, one brotherhood, that suffering and the news are not out, there is no clarity. And it's a concern to the whole of the world at the end of the day. So, Joe, we had a Russian jet crashing into a US drone. And I think we should, you know, a drone is not like that little small thing with propellers on it, like a military drone is like a, like an aircraft. So it's not a small thing, right? Well, it's not a small thing, but it's not a large thing compared to a fighter aircraft. So a drone is kind of, if you can imagine what it's like, it's a preteen fly, a fighter jet, and really, and drones can be set up with all kinds of things that can that they can have, of course, a lot of weapons on them, but usually they are deployed with lots of reconnaissance equipment on them. And the great thing about drones is they can fly at great stability, great heights, with all the instruments that help to balance things out. And now they can see very, very far away. And with all the stability, they don't have to enter the airspace, and they can see things from file. So as a result of that drones are deployed very much for reconnaissance, again, outside of the the airspace, so they're in international airspace. So technically, they're completely legal where they are. And that's actually the case as well for for any other kind of aircraft. So you can of course, you can of course, have international airspace that it happens to be near a country. So this particular story happens in airspace, international airspace that is near Russia, there is. So there's not only is this American drone in the air there, there's also these Russian jets who happen to be nearby. And for reasons that are not completely known right now. It does look very much like the Russians kind of antagonise the drop. And in some really, really bizarre ways as well, like, you know, like, I mean, fly by is buzzing. And that's all. That's all fun and games, I guess. But one of the things that I heard that they did as well was the jettison the fuel on the drone, you know, kind of kind of a drive by P. You know, think about it. I mean, look, it's all to do with, you know, it's all to do with making a bit of a statement. But anyway, the drone has finally crashed or was had finally crashed. And the reason that was given is because it was hit, it was it was bumped, it wasn't shot down, it was knocked by one of these planes trying to engage it. And the denials have come fast and furious as well. So Russia says no, that's not what happened. But in the meantime, you have a drone that doesn't tend to the crash that has crashed. So besides that, though, it's just a case of, you know, spy versus spy up in the air, it's international airspace. You know, it's, it seems like someone bullied somebody, but really, in terms of, you know, real, real victims here. There's, there's no real person there. There's an embarrassed pilot, perhaps somewhere in Wyoming went. On, one of the stories that I saw was, obviously there's political ramifications in escalation. And all that sort of stuff is always possible in situations like this, but the other is the potential to steal some of the information on board where Russia and Iran are not succeeding from a technology technology perspective. So I think the Russians have salvaged the drone. So I don't know maybe it's got a dis self destruct mode, so they don't get access. But But yeah, let's move. Let's move on. Sorry, go. Now, I was gonna say there's there's definitely all kinds of things where they do things like self destruct and things like that. But the idea that Russia hasn't already stolen this technology, you know, is, a lot of this stuff is out there in the open. It's a technology where you haven't seen that kind of aircraft before. That's the kind of stuff that usually hasn't had any sort of industrial espionage happening. Things like this where drones which have been around for a long time, they have almost definitely been compromised by some sort of thing. It's, you know, if we're going to make a joke about it, it's like how would the Russians find out what's going on in there, they might want to ask the Chinese All right, so let's move on to the theme of the day, which is impartiality is critical and necessary if you're on the same side so obviously, again, if you missed it, which Joe it sounds like Joe did so we all heard about getting Gary Lineker suspension from the BBC because he spoke up because he thinks it's based on comments by suella. Braverman who's one of my least favourite people on the planet, I think Marjorie Taylor The Green sort of sits alongside her. There's a few others out there. But anyway, it said that compared the language used by ministers to describe their asylum policies to that at the Nazis in 1930s, Germany, and basically, you know, the key thing was not dissimilar, so it wasn't saying they're going to treat them, like, you know, they treated the Jews during in the Holocaust, right? It's not about that it's the big before when it was brewing up. And I, you know, the normalisation of hate. And then there's another fantastic article in the Sydney Morning Herald where they're basically what's happened is the Australian refugee policy, stop the boats. This is almost exactly like it. But what it does is it sort of takes away the the human impact, right? These are people who are suffering, you know, these are people who are escaping, whether it's war, you know, through threats to their life or climate change, which was caused by the countries that want to keep them out. Right. So there's, there's there's two big stories for me. So the first is the right to speak up. Who has it? Who doesn't? As well as the contradictions? Because there's many many examples that are being discussed this week, Alan, sugar Lord Alan Sugar, sorry. Someone appearing on a in BBC comedy, or a drama? Do they have a right to a political perspective if they're on the BBC, so there's lots of conversation about that. But the either the biggest story for me is the dehumanisation of your refugees, which I do think has been lost in the story. And I think it's a really important thing that Lineker raised attention, but we've almost lost the focus of what he was raising attention on. And we got caught up in the other stuff, but what are you? What's your takeaway from what you've been paying attention to this way? Um, I think you're right, because in terms of where I got drawn to immediately was this thing about, you know, what, what you can say, and what you're allowed to say. And I mean, these are, by the way, very familiar. It's a very familiar territory for me, because I used to be, you know, in on the radio here, and I was a freelancer. So, I mean, I have I have various thoughts about the idea about being able to say what you want to say anyway, I mean, it's the way the world currently is what it is. But at the same time, I think we have what we call a contract, right? So for me, just purely on the on the idea of being able to say what you want to say from whenever and however, there is, there is a bit of a trade off when you have signed on, especially with with what I presume is going to be a pretty lucrative contract, that there's always going to be something you give away. When you do that, you know, you're still you still have to play nice. And I was just looking at some of the videos and stuff. So the very quick media perspective is the BBC is supposed to be this big, impartial thing and so they're not supposed to say anything specifically about things and and it kind of tried to tweak that and said, it's mostly about news people and current affairs people. And so how Gary Lineker falls into that as a football commentator. It's in question. And the Lord, Lord sugar's comments that you mentioned a while ago as well, that they were very, very much in favour of then. I was not sure whether he was in charge, but anyway, was what it was about. I forget the name now. But anyway, that the last three three prime ministers ago it was it was one of those things where if you're, if you're impartial, we don't we don't worry about impartiality, it will be benefits us. But if it then goes the other way. We have concerns about that. Do you agree like that? So for me the impartiality debate, if it's a left leaning government, they don't push that. But if it's a right leaning government, they do. Yeah, that the pressure on the media seems to be more of a right wing than a left wing thing. That's, that's my impression. Would you guys agree with that? I think it has, it goes to the values that you have, actually, I mean, if you talk about what what you are when you are left leaning and when you are when you're right meaning and the full expression of that if you are left leaning, the nature of that means that you have to be open to greater discourse, because you're supposed to be as a left leaning person that you have to be open to bigger ideas. Whereas if your right leaning the nature of that is that the more you lean, right, the less you want to hear other views, right? I mean, that's the that's the nature of that. So I don't think it's a case of bias. Because it's what they because what they want or in favour of one side or the other. It's just because of the nature of that idealism. So if you have the, if the left is in charge, in I presume you're going to end up with with even wider views, sort of like being expressed because that's the right you have to express yourself is supposed to be the entity meaning of different ideas, it may be more, sort of, there may be anarchy as well, in terms of the ideas that may be put on, you'll have really opposite views being put on stage. And we'll see how people react to that. and PM, you know, yeah, but the right to review, you know, the whole freedom of speech argument, right. I mean, you see what some of the stuff that DeSantis is doing in Florida. It's, it's crazy what's going on over there. But it's not just there. I mean, in India, you know, the, the Modi government can go in and stop social media channels from allowing certain perspectives to be shared. I mean, what, what's your view from from an Indian perspective, sir? Yes, absolutely. I mean, I would have a little different opinion, because we might not have the right wing and the left wing, but there will be many, several parties here. And the perspective is still the same. That if it's in your favour, you're there for it. If it's not in your favour, you're always opposing it. And it's always important to understand to have a holistic view of the situation rather than just being, you know, one sided on this decision or the other side, because in media in India, yes, people are not allowed to speak. There have been incidents, I would not name them, of course, not to get into any other controversy myself. There have been people who have been put behind bars, there have been shows the TV shows that have been shut down, because there have been jokes around the government policies and you know, other stuff. But why would that cause a problem to anyone running the government? Does it cause any harm for the peace in the country? No. But does it cause harm to their personal branding, like we say in the social media right now? Or does it cause harm to their personal motives? That is the answer that we need to look upon when they act with impartial things. Now, coming back to the BBC controversy, why did they take that step? Or why did they took that step? What was the intention? What was the internal discussion that was going on when we talk about BBC being completely impartial? Now, we in India view it a little differently, because they have been showcasing the Modi government's issue, or specifically pm Modi's issue that happened in 2004. With, with one of the incidents where people were burnt out in the train, and there was an issue, who were government of India, the Supreme Court, and even special investigation team has given a clean ship to Mr. Modi. But still, there's a documentary that is being aired by BBC. And I can get the name of that thing for sure. Yeah, and they've named it as India, the Modi question. And they're saying that the documentary is completely controversial, because everything has been done in 2002, and 2004. All the thoughts have been done, there have been clean shade. And since he's been a prime minister, we see that he's been very, very vocal. Why do a documentary now? What is it in a BBC to share the documentary now without even having any new data? Any new news feed any new point that has been discussed so far? So is there some other political agenda that is coming up? We don't know. Yeah, it's certainly interesting to get that insight is what's the general view? I mean, obviously, you can't, you can't speak for everyone. But when you feel the sort of the mood of the country, is it against the BBC for putting that documentary out there? It's definitely it's definitely a little against the BBC for putting up that is because the we have seen the change in the Indian political thing that is happening right now. We have seen the respect that India gets outside we have seen how India has been able to help people during the COVID times sending out the vaccines. We have seen India supporting Syria, we have seen India supporting Turkey recently. And that has happened because of Modi government. I'm not saying BJP or anyone but Modi government, because he's been he's been a legionary of visionary leader. And as we always say that when we are teaching people that if the leader has a vision, which is connected to everyone down the line, people run for that, yes, there would be bribery, there would be corruption. I'm not saying India has been absolutely clean on corruption. But it's reduced. Even with the GST the nation's wealth is becoming strengthened. So people are against that documentary, which is being aired, because it's not showing any new evidence. It's just creating a little turbulence or, you know, it's just creating a problem with people's emotion. Why would you do that? What is the purpose? And as a media house if you really want to get the truth out? The time has already gone. There has been statement, there's been investigation, there's been a supreme court judgement, why a documentary now? Yeah. And it's just sort of all adding to the divisions that are brewing around the world. Right. So that changing mindsets towards Ender India, you know, again, documentaries and documentaries again, going back to ages when Britishers actually went leaving India, drawing a partition line dividing Hindus and Muslims and creating creating that divide and rule. The documentary again talks about the same thing that Modi government is being partial to Muslims. Why? Marshall? Yeah, so not partial, but they're saying that, you know, they're not they're targeting the homes of the Muslim state, they're not supporting the Muslims. And why this communal separation is why do we need to have this when everybody is trying to have peace? And I mean, I've been to I have so many friends in Pakistan, I have so many friends Muslim, not every Muslim is bad. Why portrayed like that. And not every hindu is from or anti Muslim. So when peace is there, why disturb it? So that's what my point is when people are unhappy is because it's trying to disturb the peace of the country, creating rift between, you know, different religions, not fair. So my my question about this, because I haven't I haven't, I haven't seen the documentary. I don't know the context of it. But for me, the questions I would ask is, when was the was the documentary released or produced? Because I think ultimately, what happened is it's a documentary is it's a it's a documentary, right? And so that there is a there's a point at which there's the end of the story. What was this a recent thing? Or was it an old one? No, no, no, it was a recent thing. That's why I gave the date. So let me pull up the date. The incident happened in 2002, where the controversy started 2004, everything was sorted 2014, he was elected as the Prime Minister, even his US visa ban was lifted because of that. And in 2012, the special investigation team and Supreme Court gave a clean chit to Mr. Modi. But the documentary does not show that, you know, it hasn't evidence as a neutral documentary. But the documentary is actually showing Modi government, Kojak rights and linking it to the policies that they're making are not pro to Hindu, the not pro to Muslims, the policies they are making are more towards Hindu. And the policy also is talking about hallmark of ethnic cleansing, and more towards Hindu extremist. They don't need to make those statements when you have a documentary, a documentary should be a fact of evidence or the events that happened. And that's it, that's fine. But why do you give judgments that this government is thrown into this government is like that, that is disturbing. And that is where they have they've been biassed, and they lack objectivity is what people have been saying here. And still, the colonial mindset is absolutely visible in their documentaries. So you know, just before COVID hit, I mean, there were there were a lot of Muslim communities attacked, especially in Delhi, I think, if I remember correctly, and people were murdered, so it's not like it's not happening under his watch. Right. So the original, the original documentary was was when he was a leader of his own state. And now as the Prime Minister, these problems are still existing within society. And obviously, the Muslim in this problems would ditch problems would exist everywhere, where there are different people, different communities, but does not mean that they should be propagandised in that way, that India is anti Muslims. That's not fair. No, of course not. Yeah, I think I think the challenge this is this is this is where I'm my impartiality as well, right, because I think there is this thing about what we think should happen as well, because I'm hearing things echo in the background of almost like censorship, right, as in like, you know, that there is this idea of some things that happen or may not happened, and maybe it's not the whole story, maybe it is, it is the it's one side of the story, right? And if, if, sometimes what I mean, I do feel that there's this, there's this thing about telling sides of the story, when you when you when you when you want to put out a story, it isn't always the case that you want to tell both sides of the story, you may want to tell people educate people about a certain aspect of it and where it's gone and what have you. i I'm personally just curious about this as in like, you know, was there a time or was there a period when, if that if that was a slice of life, that they would have reflected what was happening at the time? And are we also at a stage where we go like, Okay, some things we have to put behind us those things did happen, but we have to put behind us and move forward. Is it is it then you know, something where we also don't bring it up? I mean, I'm hearing like it's maybe not that those things didn't happen, but it's like it's not the thing right now. Is that is that And that's absolutely accurate way of putting it that, yes, X, some things would have happened, the details are given, but they are not as grave as they are being portrayed. And they need not be talked now, because things have changed now things have evolved now. And people have moved on and people have proved to falsify the allegations that have been put on them. So if someone has proved that the allegations have falsified, with evidences with clarity, with all the stuff, that in that case, we need to, again, move on, forget the things and don't drop the past. Because as they say, you dig the grave? You only get dirt and smell, there's nothing else that you so it's so interesting. Yeah. But it's so interesting, because it's a perspective from yours. Right? And, you know, from my side of the world for from personally. Yeah, exactly. And if there was somebody else from India here, they potentially could give us a completely different perspective, different perspective. Absolutely. For me, it's the same thing of stoking fear and anger within the society, targeting a minority group, and making the other other ring, right, then lots and lots of other interviews going on all over the world, you know, it's their fault, that you're suffering. And when it's actually government, incompetence, you know, in England, England's doing it, blaming the refugee, it's no, it's not the refugees fault, build the right infrastructure and the right support, so you can take care of people in their moment of need. And then and that message is, you know, people are out bending hotels, where the refugees are being put up, you know, so can you imagine escaping a war zone and turning up in a, in a country where you think you can maybe give your children a possibility of life, or even if you're a 1213 year old kid who's escaping that, just, you just want to go to school? You know, you just, you just, you know, you're already dealing with the trauma of losing your parents, brothers, sisters, whatever, and you just want to have a chance at life, you know, but you're the enemy. It's your fault. And it's like, no, it's not. It's not their fault. It's the government's fault. And, and it's not, it's not even, it's got nothing to do with the refugees. I mean, when you look at the data, the percentage of refugees in the UK are down, like tiny percentage of what they used to be, and they're making it out, there's, there's this throngs coming over over the walls, and that that's not the case. You know, that some of the Brexit commentary that's coming out at the moment of what, you know, the leave party, what they were saying would happen, if they didn't do Brexit, right, and you said, Listen to the words and the threats and who the other is when the other is a minority without power. Our intent should be up. And for some reason, it's like the mob spec. Right? And, I don't know, it's like, humans can't evolve beyond these basic sort of mindset. Again, just to observe this, this moment, right now is like, you know, I think I fell for it as well. And I got I got caught up with the fight as I'm like, A, my attention was drawn by the fight and not the issue, as like, you know, like you talk about it right now that the real issue is about refugees, the real issue is about what we can do for them. But I got caught up with the with the flight and I think that's, that's, it's something that we were hardwired to do. I don't want to I don't want to give myself an excuse for it. But we are we are we tend to be hardwired. In the sense that you know, very often we end up in situations where we know a fights going on and we know we know who the enemy is, but we sometimes forget why we're fighting. And I think we should get get back to this as in like, I think I think your point in making this the topic today was about, you know, that the fight is in what's important. Really right, if I got you, Ryan? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'd like to add to just the whole refugee thing, you know, coming from Australia, it's one of my great shames of being Australian, you know, that everywhere I go. People say Australians are really racist, aren't they? And I'm like, No, that's not. It's not the Australia I grew up with. I mean, certainly not my family. You know, it just was not what I would consider a racist community. And in fact, the most racism I've ever experienced, not towards me, but seen within societies is across Asia, it's just way out there in the open. You people say what they think about someone else who might have darker skin or come from a country that's considered inferior, whatever it is, even within the within the caste system, right. You know, I mean, it's just out there, it's part of society. But you know, for me, like, you know, Australia could be a country with what's coming from an climate perspective, where they might all end up as refugees, who's going to take them in, right where they got to go and we're kind of at a point in, in the world where we really need to start waking up to what's happening in the divisions. would have been created. Because the more separated we become, the less capable we're going to be able to come back together and, and do what we need to do together to take care of each other. And I'm incredibly concerned about their level of propaganda, the level of success that it's having, you know, when we don't even think it's propaganda, you know, but we are, you know, we're in real danger right now. And every country across the world, you know, if, if the press is being suppressed. Next concern, we should be concerned, the press is important. You don't have to agree with it. You don't even have to like them. But they should, you know, people argue for free speech, but then want to suppress the voices. Well, that's not free speech. Right. So I think we're at an important time for humanity. And it worries me where we're going. Absolutely, it worries me. So Joe, I was gonna say the difficulty really is it we think about it in terms of the label that we have, like it's propaganda, there is just the way we are inclined to be as in like, you know, it's to be to be the well developed human is to kind of break out the orbit of yourself, you have to stop, you have to stop being who you essentially are concerned about yourself and how you feel because the, it's like, for instance, one of the biggest things that we are going to face as a planet is this idea that nobody, nobody's good with letting go of my, this is my stop, this is my home, this is my place, it's not yours. And we kind of have to have this idea of of our, we have to really come to terms with our. But it's not easy to do. Because we are competitive by nature, our very nature is to go like, where am I at Better, better now than it was before worse off than than we are now. So that's the huge challenge. And then propaganda is, I mean, I really think no one's really pulling the levers, there's just basically the tide of power. It's it, there's more of you in charge right now. And you have more access. So I hear your voice more. And it's going to flow back and forth. And that's the kind of the thing that's going to happen. And I spoken about the the benevolent dictators, right? I mean, you do have to have someone who sees it and goes, this isn't quite right. And so what you end up with, I think, is a world that is in need of a James Bond villain. Not really a villain. And that's really the kind of tragedy that we have. I mean, we kind of played a hand, we're all we're all at checkmate, in ourselves. And the only way to beat this is to throw the chessboard away. But we still want to we want we want to, we want to play the game to get out of the game. And that's just not, I think that's just not possible. Yeah. Well, I would, I would give a little different perspective. That's okay. With rather than talking about, you know, the refugees, the chessboard, or all of the stuff, or even the racism, I would say, why don't we, as global leaders have a discussion about the root cause of this refugees, they either come out because of fear, insecurity, poverty, climate change, as you rightly said, Andrea, or violence around their countries or even conflict. Now, if we start solving those problems, the solution or the problem of refugees will be out and looking at what Joe said, the way to do it is have them having developed, maybe places for them to work to on, but also to look at it with an angle of compassion, empathy. So why not be a government who looks at resolving the root cause as a part of a global summit that we do are a global entity? And Taka is one world like you said, the chessboard, let's mix the black and white together and play chess as one whole. Of course, there's no killing then, but at the same time, the refugee problems will be resolved is because we're looking at the root cause and we're not trying to, you know, treat the symptoms, let's create the cause or treat the cause. Yeah. So Neeraja has just said the only purpose of government is to protect man's rights, Ayn Rand, and I absolutely agree. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, you're absolutely right. But I think that the, the root cause, right, and that's always the bit that we don't, do we put band aids on top, like, you know, in the US, what do they do? They build prisons, private prisons, and guess what, there's more and more and more people in prison than they've ever been, you know, so when you make money off something like that, not a good business model, right. Not for humanity. But, you know, there's a big movement around dealing with trauma recognising trauma, trying to come to terms with it. You know, when it comes to clothes I met refugees, if we put some more effort into understanding where the problems are the countries, wealthy countries are not even doing what they need to do to adapt for climate change in their own countries, right? Not even not even remotely like building dams, putting the right infrastructure in place, they are not doing what they need to do. And one of the things that I've been talking about for a long time is we need to build refugee communities around the world, where people who have to pack up and leave, can go to, and get settled for a while, when we work out, where can they go without it being a big hoo ha, and we need to solve this, because the movement of people is going to cause wars all over the world, right. But we do need to solve it. Because, you know, the amount of children that are sold into slavery, the amount of women that go into slavery, you know, because they're unsafe in their movement, you know, you see it on the border in Mexico, the amount of women who is they finally get across the border, you know, could have been raped several times on the journey, right? Or the children. So we've got to look at the trauma, and this is the societal problems in all of our societies, we've got to look at the infrastructure that we need to put in place to deal with climate change, but mainly to deal with the mass movement of people, so people can move and be safe and have dignity. But you know, we've got to look at, you know, the institutions are crumbling, this BBC story is, is about an institution in crisis. And that's the BBC, right? The media is in crisis. Our legal system is in crisis, our education, healthcare system all over the world is in crisis. If you're following or connected to any teachers, it's a nightmare to be a teacher right now. You know, all of the institutions are crumbling, and we're all sitting there going, Oh, well, so we need to vote. We need to vote for the right sort of leaders, we need to challenge the traditional sort of idea of what politics is in the countries that we come from, but we've got to fight. You know, we've this Dutch story. I was reading it last night going, Wow, this is huge, conservative Dutch values. Now, what are the millennials and the Gen Zed think of that? Do they want that? But 57 point, what is it 57.5% of the vote? Where are the kids voting? I hope they are because this is their future, you know, so sorry, I'm having a bit of a rant. But it's been a big few weeks. I mean, the news is crazy right now, but we are on the cartridge, it's definitely gonna change the reference, you know, when you go out for food, and you go and you want to go Dutch, you know, don't don't try that. Try going Ultra Dutch and see what happens. Now, you've had a few nurses today. Yeah. So yeah, the big ones, right? It's, um, we, we have to make a choice about the future that we want. And we need to make it now. And we need to stop fighting for that future. Because the people who are motivated, are going to do that. But the people who are motivated aren't necessarily the people that we agree with, you know, the kids are on Tik Tok having a good time sharing their political opinions. But they're not going to vote. So the kids need to get voting, because it's their future. And, um, yeah, I'm concerned, I'm getting more and more concerned by the day, you guys do you feel it was just made? I think the politics that we're looking at in the future, you know, we look at politics today. And we think in terms of borders, and what you've described as a problem is a model as problem. It's like, well, when you have a when you have I mean, let's, let's take it to the end level, right? When you have 20 million Australians trying to get somewhere because because the places on fire what happens outside of that? Do they arrive as part of what the Australian Government wants to try and soar? Or is around? Or is it is it 20 million people so you know, I'm done with this. I'm not I'm not really gonna go Ozzy anymore. It's a hard it's a hard thing, because, you know, refugees don't enjoy and by the nature of what we have right now can't enjoy the, the the protection of their own government because they are leaving, or they're saying they have to leave that place rather than trying to make a try to leave the place. So who, whose children? Are they? Right? And it's a lot. The scale of it is just I can't I can't begin to imagine how, as a you know, we're trying to solve our own problems out we're gonna go like, Oh, I can also then take on another problem for somebody else, and it becomes our problem. Only our problem. No, I mean, yeah, near is just saying that we're already borderless from a digital perspective we are but the rise of nationalism, know where that's, you know, and you know, the beam about the Dutch fo, that's all about older generations, and it's not a it's a rural sort of boat, so it's just got to keep our eyes open. Alright, let's finish up Thank you to Julian. We had push, push carouge, you might have to help me say that name. So I didn't push crash this Monday. Right? Okay, I didn't, we didn't put the question up because it didn't really make sense to what we were talking about till the end Mars here and a couple of other names, but I can't see them. But thanks for joining guys really appreciate it. All right, what's keeping you distracted? Anything, TV books, podcasts, he wants to go first, I have hooked on to the diary of a CEO. Notch. It's a great podcast coming out of the UK and now the US as well. And it's been an inspiration to me to consider going back to doing podcasting as well, because I think I am. I've always enjoyed it. And I like what I'm able to do while I'm podcasting, but I've always tried to figure out the the financial part of it, because I always think about my work or my life in terms of sustainability. And part of that is about is about it has a lot to do with money, it really in the end, you can be passionate about things, but if you're leading, it's not going to end well. Or at least you won't feel great as you're trying to get there. So but yeah, Dario CEO, so many great conversations that have been captured on that particular show. And consistently, you know, the, the, the host of the show, Steven, I can't remember he says his second name now. But Bartlett, okay. has been able to extract a response from someone that they probably may not have, had been thinking about before they actually began the show. And it's because you know, it's just listening. And being vulnerable himself and just talking about how he feels about stuff as well. That that podcast really is a high value podcast, I recommend it to anybody who wants to improve the quality of their thinking, ya know, it's one I've been listening to him for a while. And the more popular he gets, obviously, the more famous the guests are. So the Stephen Fry interview. I'll listen to Stephen Fry all day long. But he, he has fascinating guests. And yeah, and the one you shared with me was fantastic. How do you monetize it? I thought that was a that was a really, that was a really interesting perspective, right? Yeah, that show actually happen because he had a guest, and they cancelled the they deleted the podcast, because it just wasn't up to the standard that they wanted to have. And so they actually deleted the podcast, and then they put something else on, and it's why we have that show. Yeah, I like the integrity behind it. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So he's, he's operating at the level that I admire as well. So I think I thought, yeah, I'm glad you found him. I don't think I introduced you to him either. Did I? Just, we both found greatness separately. watching or listening or reading. So I have been watching a show called blacklisted on Netflix, Netflix, and that's really an interesting series, which have recently started. And every show is interesting because of you know, you can also find out good in bad people is what I'm looking at it that they were criminals, but they all have ethics. That was fascinating for me to see that. You know, even they have ethics and like we talk about today's show that impersonality where are the ethics then? Yeah, no, yeah, I've been I've been enjoying blacklist. I'm on season five. I'm a little late in watching it. But yeah, on season five, and it's absolutely amazing. worth watching. If you love adventure, thriller, action and suspense. The Northern Lights model, I looked up I wrote Parag Khanna so I was sharing about him recently. So a book I'm trying to get to get through his don't even think about it, why our brains are wired to ignore climate change. And it's a really, really interesting one. Samantha gopher recommended this to me. And I did watch everything everywhere all at once again. Yeah, I think it's important to watch that movie at least twice, if not more. Have you guys watched it? I did. I did the same thing as well. I watched it the first time and we're like, Okay, I'm not sure if I understood what I saw. And then I watched it again. It's by the way, it is a show if you can break the traditions that you have most times of watching a show by yourself and try and gather a group of people and watch it. There's a completely different dynamic in terms of the show and there's some there's some scenes on the show. That if you think we're kind of funny when you are watching it yourself, when you're in a group of people, maybe with a couple of wines and watching you're really have a good time with that as well. Well, and I think what's great about it is the takeaway from the show, there is a message, there is a solution being offered actually to to you if you're having any kind of issue. So it's a great show, Rachel. Yeah, there's there's some February coverage around the Asian American community who are really resonating with it from a mental health perspective. So no, no mental health perspective, like the relationship between mothers and daughters. Yeah. Traditions and you know, living in the culture, right? If I can speak from a Chinese perspective, I mean, the irony of the movie is they're all the Asians representing completely what Asians don't do. What do you remember that? This this idea of acceptance, the idea of you can do what you want to do I accept you for what you are, accept your choices. I don't judge you and all that, right. It is. Seriously if you look, you know, I don't have I don't have the book on Asian parenting here. But that's not what it says in there. You know, yeah. You're getting fat, right? Which is, which is, which is one of the, which is one of the scenes between the mother and daughter, she, she comes up, she wants to express affection. And she says you're getting fat. And yeah, and it's funny when I when I heard that I'm like, Oh my God, I've seen that so many times in Azure. And every time every time I say that, Oh, here it It shocks me that people talk about stuff like that, but it's just that cultural thing, but, but I think it's um, it's opening a conversation with, with lots of communities around the world. Right. And that's good. Conversations. Good. We need to be talking about stuff like this. Anyway, let's, let's wrap it up. Yep, yep. So thanks very much for watching. You know, I've never asked for this on the show. But listen, if you if you kind of enjoy what we talked about which you please hit subscribe, you hit like, give us a thumbs up all that kind of stuff. I mean, I feel like a YouTuber, right. But we can we can, we can we can do with I'd like to think that every time we get together, some new thoughts get birthed from it some new perspectives. And definitely Of course, we figure out something about the shows. If anything, just get to the to the end, where we're talking about what's what's distracting us. And you'll find these four new things to try on your news feed or, or movies or Netflix or books. So thanks for watching. I hope you've had a good time with us and if you if you have not be send the whole programme back for a full refund. If it's on Netflix, I have no idea what she's asking about. I think it's about blacklist blacklist on internet. And cigar, thank thank you so much for joining us and being part of the conversation. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you. I hope your electricity holds up with the aircon over the coming months. I know a lot of people in the community won't be as lucky and as fortunate. That's probably the thing I'm concerned about the most the people who can't afford to have aircon when it's in 45 to 50 degrees temperatures, right. So but really appreciate you being part of it. And yeah, we'll see you in a couple of weeks. All right. All right. Thank you so much.