The Know Show – what new addictions are destroying us?

This week on the ‘Then & Now’ YouTube channel, a compelling video was released, called ‘How New Addictions are Destroying Us’ (link below). It’s a very compelling watch and really looks at the bigger implications of how these addictions are destroying us as a global society, as well as what needs to be done about it. We found this so interesting, we think it’s worth a conversation in our theme section, so please come and join us as we discuss this and some of the major news from around the world.  

We are delighted to welcome Avni Martin, a Master Certified Coach (MCC), who trained in Inner Child Integration Therapy, to the conversation this week. Avni is enthusiastic to talk about how this relates to the science of habits, which is a fundamental part of her coaching, training and therapy work. It’s going to be a great conversation. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the climate crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics, business, social issues, and passion/humor/history. Join us. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdHOXKLgGUY link to the video. 

#TheKnowShow #UncommonCourage

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

Welcome to the no show. My name is Andrew redwoods. My name is Joe Augustine. And joining us in place of Tim that this week is after Martin. Hi. Hi. Hi, Andrea. Hi, Joe. Thanks for having me here. And what a perfect addition to for the topic that we're going to dig into later on. So Abby, thank you so much. He did us a huge favour by joining us as well. Appreciate it. My pleasure. My pleasure. And thanks for having me here. Thank you. On the no show today, you're gonna get a whole lot of updates about what's been happening in the world. And of course, get to the main theme of the show, which is about, well, it's something that doesn't happen in Singapore, apparently, addictions. Got lots of them. And we're gonna get through a lot of it. And we've been talking about how the world really is facing some of its biggest challenges because of addictions. Yeah, definitely, you want to give us a bit of a bit of a background? I know you've been on the show before, but you want to give us a quick sort of overview of what you do and what you care about. Sure, yes. So I as you know, I'm a coach and a coach trainers, I work with leaders, organisations and teams to support them in changing cultures. And I develop coaches. And also, I have recently just completed my training programme for being an inner child integration therapist, as I'm really interested to look at, you know, what really happens beyond coaching. So when we need to go into our past, and what really drives us deep inside, what really results in our behaviour, ultimately, in our decision making. So I'm really excited to be here to discuss all of this things with you and bringing in that angle from, you know, in a child perspective into many of the stories that we have on our table today. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh, shall we get down to it be updates about what's been happening in the world. Yeah, like that. Going through just this week's news versus even two weeks news, there is so much that we could have shared so I've got a couple of really quick ones to keep an eye out for but and then obviously the biggest stories that we're going to talk about. So just kicking off in Sydney, if you haven't noticed in the last couple of weeks, it's been Mardi Gras season, and it's one of the largest Pride marches in the world. And for the very first time, the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese actually marched at the front of the parade. So that's, that's a big thing. I thought it was important to call out because if we had more leaders, doing things like that, you know, around the world, we could really see some change. Another devastating thing that we saw this week was off the coast of Colombia, in Italy. nearly 60 people migrants were killed in a boat wreckage when it crashed into the rocks. And last, no show we were talking about bird flu. And I know Joe, you said the scientists aren't expressing too much fear around bird flu. I'm I'm reading some different perspectives on that. But in Cambodia, Cambodia, in the last week, a young girl died of bird flu. So they're obviously looking into, you know, how did that infection happen, because once it becomes human to human, then we've got a problem. But one of the biggest stories that broke this week was obviously the train crash in Greece. So a freight train and a passenger train collided, it's horrific. It was packed full of young people on board, 350 passengers. And for the first time in three years because of COVID, though, we're out really celebrating these festivals, sort of It's a pre Lent Festival. So the details came through very quickly in the devastation became quite obvious. At least 57 Young people have been killed so far. And the first few carriages instantly broke into fire. If you look at the temperatures, there was no chance. So it's very grim. And of course, the relatives have to donate their DNA so that they can identify body parts to the victims. But the news is much bigger than this, because we've heard that a station Marcia, station master was arrested and charged with manslaughter. And he accepts his role in what happened. But it's part of a much bigger systemic problem. And more and more reports are starting to come out that the employees working for the train system in in Greece have been complaining for decades about system failures, and that this is basically an accident waiting to happen. And here we are. So what so that by blaming the station master and human behaviour for this, that's really starting to see some huge and angry protests as train strike that the Minister of Transport has designed or resigned, sorry, but to me, this actually feels like one of those sparks that sets off a big fire and the protests are going to get bigger, and they're going to be about more of the bigger issues that Greece is, is and has been facing for a very, very long time. It feels like people people have had enough side keep an eye on that stuff. worry, but very, very sad story because so many young lives were lost. On the environment front, there's multiple stories that are getting media attention, and I hope everyone's paying attention. The first one in The Guardian, Australia faces unprecedented grass fires next summer, which have been supercharged by global heating. So basically, the message is Australia should prepare for grass fires on a scale not experienced before. And basically the summer of 2324. There's a widespread fire risk. And of course, this is moving from La Nina into El Nino. So because of the anaemia, there's been a lot of water, and typically the vegetation growth in Australia is between point five and 1.5 tonnes, and now it's at 4.5 to six tonnes per hectare. So you know, it's all turning brown, and it's getting ready to spark on the other side of the UK. They have experienced the dryers February in England since 1993. And they're saying that the signals are there's drought ahead, which of course, impacts farming, access to drinking water, being able to even what are your gardens. So when we talked about this last sort of summer, England's water is completely privatised. Kind of get somebody needs to mute. So there's clicking and clicking in the background. There we go. So basically, it's privatised, and it hasn't been upgraded for 30 years, and nothing has changed since. And, of course, the people who are getting the shares in these water companies are getting their dividends. But they're looking at another widespread drought this year, which of course, will further exacerbate global famine. And we're already seeing the food shortages in the UK. But over in India, they're actually preparing for a heatwave over the coming months, Channel NewsAsia said, India warm warns of heat waves expects surge in heat related illnesses, they're definitely going to see surges and illnesses. But of course, it can be much worse than that. Because basically India is one of the first countries in the world that's moving into too hot to live territory, when when the heat or the wet bulb temperatures start to come in. And that's when you you basically no longer sweat, and you start to to basically die from the inside out, right. And that's coming up, you know, the majority of people in India do not live in conditions which are suitable for that sort of heat. And with the electricity shortages, which happened when that sort of heat hits, it's going to impact a huge proportion of the population. And people are at risk of cooking alive inside their homes. And this is something that we're going to see more and more of, and then another quick one, Spring has sprung in the US. And it's the earliest spring on record. Now, this is actually a bad thing, even though people are going away. It's so beautiful and warm. I love being outside. The birds, bees, bugs and all of the other animals survive, because of the certainty of food available at different times of the year based on, you know, when things are born or when they come out of hibernation. So, yeah, all very bad sides. signs from a climate perspective, Joe, well over to the economy where we don't bring you as much of a news story as much as a mystery. People are wondering, where is that recession that was supposed to have come gone? Well, here's what's happened. We've always been on the verge of it for the past few months, almost every time we've done this show in the past few months, it's been like, around the corner, all indications are there. And to be honest, the fundamentals are still in place for recession. But there's something about what's happening in the economy in the sense that I think decisions have been made somewhat early by companies. And what's happened is in the expectation that they're going to lose money and not do as well. Companies have actually unexpectedly made money. And there's so the as far as the economy is concerned, the recession is supposed to be two to two quarters, I think in a row where there's there's a there's a there's a there's a loss in GDP or shrinking in GDP. But because of those better numbers, it doesn't come out as in the same way. So what what we've actually got is a situation where everybody is expecting the recession, everyone's thinking about the recession. I mean, anyone anyone talks about performance issues or challenges and all that everyone says the same thing recession. Now, of course, it doesn't mean that there isn't, there is still isn't the risk of the recession, because what's happened is we are currently in in a place where they should have been something really bad that happened in the economy, but we had a lot of buffers that came in so there was a huge spending that came in from not just the American government but government All around the world in response to COVID. If there wasn't any of that we wouldn't be in not just a recession, we would be in the depression at this point. So the kind of echoes of all those actions still reverberating through our, our global economy. And then of course, there's the whole thing of everyone wanting to do something about it, right. I mean, it's challenging situations, I think inflation has come back a little bit, which is a bit of relief in terms of usually inflation is what stuff or stifles the economy's trying to come out. And it makes it pretty slow down, but because inflation has backed off a little bit, and there's a bit of pressure coming off that way, as well. So we still don't have a recession. I'm not about to wave the flag and say everything is completely fine. I think we're still on the verge of things. But there's a kind of quiet optimism. And it's the kind of thing where everybody's sitting at the all the executives of the world. I think what they're doing right now is like kind of like standing at the edge of the pool, and sort of looking to the left and looking to the right into like, you know, you go first. It's that feeling right now. They could be this huge growth in terms of the economy in terms of stock markets. But if you look at I watched, I watched the charts and I see what's happening is we are at a place where the market wants to break out. But it's it's not been decisive, it hasn't gone out and said, Oh, yes, we've we've we've we're not striking out because the conditions are not really optimum. So what's happened is everyone's come to this gate. And it's just like, opening time at Disneyland. People waiting for the gates to open and then there'll be a rush, but no one wants to go ahead of anybody else. So we'll see. We're still they'll still have a pensive state. Could it go the other way? Absolutely. I mean, it's about you know, people tried to look after the the Capitol. So if there is a shift in the in the negative direction, what happens is that there's kind of a scurrying that happens and everyone tries to go back to defensive situations, and they will protect their money. So no recession yet, but I would, I wouldn't fill the seat yet. I think he might still arrive at the dinner bit late. Yeah, waiting to see what happens on that one. You know what, I think we're gonna welcome Mito, who's coming join us. Like he's helping me tell. All right, Evany. Yes, I'd like to talk about the poisoning of the Iranian schoolgirls, as you may have read, around 1000 children in schools got poisoned. And it's considered to be allegedly revenge poisoning by a group of people who are there to essentially shut down the voice of these girls, and what voice Do they want to shut down? It's apparently related to when the girls actually stood up in protest for another girl who did not wear her scarf properly. So girl who did not wearing a scarf properly, apparently, was then detained. And then she died when she was in custody. So a lot of school girls have stood up against it. And as a retaliation, a group of people have poisoned these girls. Now, whilst it's, you know, absolutely devastating and disgusting human behaviour to do this. My thoughts as I read this is to go beyond it. Because this kind of stuff keeps happening all the time. We keep seeing oppression of women, and above and beyond oppression of women, we keep seeing people in power, misusing their power. Ultimately, that's what this is a situation of, and it's, I feel like it's like a pandemic that goes unaddressed. I feel I think, like it's a global phenomenon that goes unaddressed. And it makes me think and wonder, what is really that global phenomenon? And how can we actually stop people abusing their power? And how can we stop people using all the means that they have, in an unwholesome way to hurt another person just to get what they want? So I just, I just like this whole story breaking out, it's just it's devastating, right? So one of the ideas that they're not sure who's doing it. One of the ideas is they're trying to shut down girls being able to be educated. And to me it's just feels pathetic, right? You know, You're so skinny. You're scared a little girls. But any country that holds women back, there is a war on women when we don't seem to want to acknowledge it in America. In many countries around the world. There's a war on women if you take away women's rights, especially the right to an education Should you take everyone's you reduce the possibility for everyone, not just for girls? So it's clear, it's been proven, you know, if you support girls, that your society flourishes, and if you don't, everyone suffers, you know, it's just like, Yeah. And, Andrea, whilst we completely agree to this, there are so many people who don't agree to it. And that is the problem. So how do we, it makes me think about how do we really address those people who do not agree to it, because they are also the people who are holding the power, and they have the ability to go around poisoning young children. Right. So I think, I think one of the, if there is any way in it, it really makes me feel really passionate about doing something about it in reference to, if we can help people reflect on what is it that we really want? And why do we do these things? So if they want to oppress girls, they have to really think about why do we want women to be oppressed? What are we so fearful of? Right? Somebody has to look at themselves in the mirror, and look at that, as to what is really a true fear. If women were successful equals and had equal power, what what can possibly go wrong in their lives? And can they handle it or not? And will they benefit from it or not? And you know, Will their children and their entire society become more successful? So I feel like if there is a way that people can really look at what's really underneath it, and what really drives our human behaviour, like, what is it Who Who are we really, and what is it that we really want? And how can we truly get what we want? Ultimately, then I think that that would be brilliant, and that would be great. Yeah, I agree. Apparently, there's also an onion shortage we need to be addressing, we need to be thinking about. Yes, that's right. So, you know, coming from India, and with an Indian background, you know, if there is a shortage of onions in India, that is like, catastrophic, right is as bad as people. Yeah. I mean, it's not as bad as people cooking up in their own houses. But it is, it's really bad to have onion shortage, because all of our food has onion in it. So not good at all. Yes, so over to you. But I also think it could be part of Sparrow and part of a global food crisis. And that's something we've watched brewing for a number of years now. So global famine, global food shortages, it's happening. Anyway, Times of India reported that one job? Oh, no, it's me. Yes. Yeah, sure. So yeah, shocks in the bank, Bangkok Post. The title is falling shock numbers worrying. So basically, 75 of the 87 species of sharks in the waters around Thailand are endangered. And this is including them what this includes whale sharks, leopard, sharks, hammerheads, and bull sharks. So and in the last decade, it's been alarming. So in 2003, they were worried that the sharks that were being caught, and obviously the best thing we can do is start catching them, right. But in 2003, the sharks weighed 14,409 tonnes by 2011. It was 1424 tonnes, which is a 90%. Drop. And then in 2018, which was the last time they did it, they only managed to catch catch 419 tonnes, and that was in 2018. So we're five years since then. So please don't eat shark. In fact, if anything, I think we all should we, we've got to be protesting the overfishing in our oceans. And the best way we can protest is to not eat seafood until it gets sorted out. We need to kill the market, because it's a dead ocean, you know, it's an ecosystem. It's a it's a top predator. You know, did oceans did humans, right? And the other big story, of course, in the UK was Rishi Sunak. has hailed a new Northern Ireland Brexit deal. And if you're paying attention to that, because to me, it's like, incredibly simple and incredibly complex. The DUP needs to confirm it. Have you got any thoughts on it? But maybe, maybe there's some progress there? I don't know. But do you think Joe it's one of those things like like you said, it's really simple. And it's really hard, right? The problem with big economic deals are not just economic deals, any kind of government thing is, if only there's a way for you to get everyone to agree and be on board, then everyone's fine. But because of all the nuances and because we are in a world increasingly where I don't agree with you, and I and here's why. And I'm not going to move and I'm not going to compromise and what is politics anyway, right? I think that there's a real need for more people always talking about less politics. We need more politics, and we need politics to be what it really should be, which is people who don't agree coming together to find a way to live together. Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of people trying to live together, you may have heard about the news about Adam Scott, the, the, the, well, hang on the creator of Dilbert. While he's kind of, he's kind of been cancelled enough, some would argue that he cancelled himself, that he's on a podcast, which is the the other thing about this particular story is that there was probably a chance to get in front of it. And not have to say what you said, in the public space. But essentially, he was talking about how he made he made some comments about living with the black community, and saying things like, well, he said, That's why he's decided not to live with them. He's made, he made some uncomfortable comments. And basically, the backlash has been universal. That around zero is the estimate right now, but the newspaper, the number of newspapers who will continue to run Dilbert? And I think, largely, there's a bunch of people who say, Well, yes, and you deserve it. I feel a little bit torn about this. I mean, I understand that that as far as the view is concerned, I completely understand the view that it's not on, right. But we are we are in a world where there is no, there's not even an opportunity for someone to try and back away from something and sort of explain themselves that people kind of like process it very quickly. It comes in, they've got to label it immediately and go like, that's what they meant. And therefore we kind of feed them to the sharks. I think there was a bit more nuance to what he was saying is that as I heard it, I'm not. I'm not suggesting that he was on the right side of history here. But you know, I think I think there's a little bit more to it sometimes. Yeah, if there was some commentaries that he he'd been a bit unhinged for a while. So it wasn't just a one off, and then he went too far. But, you know, I think we do live in a world where there's certain things that are just unacceptable, and saying things like, you know, white and black people shouldn't live together. That's just not acceptable. Yeah. And I think his comments were a little bit about the the propensity of a certain racial group to do certain things, and that he was trying to afford to avoid them. And therefore he had chosen the way he had he had he had chosen. But I think I think that's the thing about that rain, it's the it's the thing that I think happens, but you just are not supposed to talk about it. And yet, at the same time that they shouldn't be. And again, it's one of those difficult things, not even there's not easy to this at all, there should be a way to approach it somehow and go like, what do we think about this? Can we talk about it? Because I think it's more of a it's more of a powder keg over there. And I think it, it blew up a lot bigger, simply because of everything else that was happening at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I, I think there's always what you do, and what you say and what you're allowed to say. And I think that's not always in alignment. Yeah. I'd like to add to that, because I think Dilbert story aside, per se, I did not hear Him say exactly what he said. So I haven't heard the exact context. But it makes me think about, people say what they say they don't always, words come out. And I think there has to be some grace in our society to really ask the person if something was offensive, for example, that that was offensive. What exactly did you mean by that? Why did you say that? So to give people a chance to explain, because nowadays, we are as a society just so quick to react to anything that we see. It's like, we have to have an opinion about absolutely everything. And I really do not subscribe to that. You know, I mean, I would subscribe to an idea that people can say what they say do what they do, but it's it is really important to check in to understand why did you say that? Why did you do that? What's really behind it? What's the motivation? And understand the true hearts motivation, rather than what we want to make it mean, right. There's also this this thing that we have as a society really to shout down the wealthy and powerful if they have an opinion about something. If someone without wealth without power says something like that. It's like, okay, I just met this weird guy on the train. You know, I mean, that's the that's the big difference. Yeah. I'll just let it Something similar happened to Rishi Sunak. When he first became the Prime Minister. They showed a clip of less than two Three and a half seconds or four seconds of him taking a moment to pause and think. And then he answered the question that was asked of him. But they, they basically replayed those three and a half to four seconds over and over again, on media to say that he basically was lost for words, and he doesn't know what he's doing. And you know, yeah, exactly. But actually, he was just taking a pause, and he was thinking about something. And then he responded really well. But it's just again, that right, people want to make something out of something. But yeah, that that is not directly for deal, but because I haven't heard him say what he said. I mean, we need to be encouraging people to take a pause before they open their mouths, right. But for Dilbert, you know, there's a responsibility here. He's a person of influence, what the words he uses matters. He's got a global audience, you know, and, you know, he's, he's, he's lost his work, you know, and it's been doing it for decades, right? So there's a consequence to opening your mouth, especially if you're a person of influence. And I think that's right. You know? So people have been talking about this next thing for quite a while now. But who do you hold responsible for fossil fuel? Because I mean, over the years, you know, that scientists within the companies have known the damage that it's been doing to the environment. So who do you hold responsible? Well, you can hold the companies who actually engage in their business, you can also hold some of the companies perhaps who are engaged in the financing of those businesses. And this is where the news of BNP Paribas being the first bank now to be sued for fossil fuel financing comes in, it's going to be very interesting how how it all comes together, because it's one of those things where, as far as the legal framework is concerned, it becomes a precedent for everything else. And so the pressure is really on. And here's where, you know, a little bit of I think nuance needs to need to come in as well. If it if it what, if what is being sought, is seen as too much of a sweeping kind of reparation, or some other, you know, legal solution is sought after. Sometimes what happens is if the demand is too great, the lawyer the law, they are the judges can actually a seat to those things because it opens too big a can of worms. So we got to see how the lawyers will approach this. There's always the law is always about small wins in the right direction, rather than the one large homerun. And that doesn't just mean the expectations of the audience will be that way. But usually what will happen is there'll be small steps towards the right direction. So right, the climate crisis is a fight in the courts as much as anything else. Just on the streets, or about Avenue, we've got some sports sports washing. Yeah, we can talk about sports washing, we can also talk about I think what Joe talked about last last show about Chad GBD. So sports washing is definitely a thing. We are seeing green fields instead of snow fields where people are skiing. So global warming is unfortunately, we're seeing so much evidence of it left, right and centre. But if we have a couple of minutes, then you know, I'd really love to like touch base on Joe's story that he shared last week, Joe, you know, what do you think about this? Charge? GBD, essentially, in terms of how we can actually embrace it. I know, we've talked about it offline a little bit. And so you know, what do you think about schools, colleges, universities actually embracing it as a tool, because it's an unstoppable force, whether we like it or not, and I personally absolutely love it. And so I think it'd be great for schools, universities and colleges to actually use it, and change the curriculum to reflect what it is to be human and what it is to be creative. And how do we really what then are we going to test humans on? If it's not their writing skills? Right? Well, I think what we've been good about chat, GBT, if you make it a subject in school, is that it calls into question, the need to have other subjects should be taught along with that. And that includes ethics. And I think what we do need is that package of stuff that goes along with that, right, so the ethics of using GBT, that the people whose work is derived from whether you can, you know, whether you can submit this as your work, who does the work belong to? It'd be really good for I think, I think kids to sort of start thinking about those things as well. And in fact, I think educators in themselves, they don't really think about those questions, too, because what they've got is they have their metric. They have their way of marking stuff. And I was saying, I think, on the last show, as well as that the reason why there's so much pushback usually is because there's so much change for the educators to deal with. And so they were rather say, Nope, let's not do any of this because there's change, I have my curriculum all set up, or I have this method already of checking whether or not this is original article. And they you know, they're the ones who have had their feathers ruffled. And actually, they're the ones who have to come to terms with it, they have to work out, you know, the world, the world is what it is, right? I mean, you could have said back in the 90s, we don't want the internet. It's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. And you know, last time, when we spoke about it, we were, we were looking at some of the potential negatives because we embrace new technology, we flee. But we as a species, we're not very good at looking at the negatives, which we, you know, for forewarned is forearmed, right. But there was one piece of the New York Times and the title is don't band chat GPT in schools teach with it now, on one side, the teachers are exhausted, they've gone through COVID, especially in the in the public system, or the government system, you know, they're short, they're overwhelmed. And this, this is a great article in The New York Times I put it in my weekend rates, where it really sort of talks to the to the teachers how they can work with it. Not. So it's not a burden, it's it's a good thing. But also, it's about helping the children like a child that's trained in artificial intelligence, and you know what reading this, I really want to encourage my boys to embrace it more. Whereas before I read this, I was probably a little less sort of interested, but I think it's a really important, we've got to look at all but we've got to have our eyes open. You know, when it comes to artificial intelligence, that's kind of my view, I'll tell you what chat GBT has made me and I'm the worst person in this field, in this on the screen, and definitely in many rooms. When it comes to admin. I'm terrible, right? And chat GVD has made me a better executive. Because what I've learned to do now is to think, okay, now I want to get this result from this software. What do I have to do to get this result? You know, and it's actually made me a better executive. Okay, that's good today. Yeah. And I think just like the internet is an unstoppable force and basically charge if it is also the next level up now from there. And I think schools will have to re reflect on the curriculum, because I don't think that there is anything we can do to stop it, it's just going to be more and more integrated more and more used by kids moving forward. So they just need to look at how do we change the curriculum so that we can embrace it? Rather than ban it? Yeah. And parents don't be scared of it. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Like, I used to say that about social media, or the parents were scared of it. And no matter what the first thing about social media is, you've got to be on it, and understand it. So you can understand that for your kids. Because if because a lot of the parents that were freaking out, especially in the early days, they weren't actively present on social media. So you can't understand the technology if you don't use it yourself. So that's one, but two, but keep your eyes open for all of the different sides. And then look at the innovation that's going to happen, you know, study the innovation that's coming, and it's coming fast. It's coming faster than anything. You know, there's, this is the greatest tech technology revolution in the last 50 years. And we've been through so many technology revolutions in the last 50 years. And this is way up their adoption rates, like off the charts. We've never seen anything like it. So but yeah, and technology. Yes, speaking of technology brings its own issues, of course. And we're about to go into that. Yeah. I I'm really happy to have Abney here because of her area of expertise. But there's a YouTube channel called then and now and it's a great channels worth subscribing to you can support him on Patreon as well. Anyway, basically he this week, he released one called How would new addictions are destroying us. And of course, when I shared this with Joe, we had a bit of a joke about addictions, right? But it's it's a look beyond the normal addictions that we think about which are alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, sex, gambling, prostitution, whatever pornography. And it's more about digging into the behavioural addictions which can be work, social media, our phones, gaming, YouTube, even our health goals, people are addicted to that and beyond, right. And basically, when you watch this video, the only conclusion you can come to is it pretty much every single one of us has an addiction, at least one right. But when I watched it, and you know, it's very rare for me to watch a video that sort of blows my hair back. And this was definitely a blow my hair back kind of moment. It felt like he really captured a big picture of you. And that's I always appreciate it, of one of the massive societal challenges that we face, which goes back to whatever he was saying earlier about going underneath and understanding the issues right. And I think that if we can be really honest about it, and the problem that it is creating for society collectively, we might actually be able to look at solving it, you know, that he's biggest point. And his biggest argument is that you and I, we can't solve it that we need the businesses who are creating the social media and the technology companies. So more ethical companies, our business for good, you know, there's a whole message around our algorithms can be algorithms for good or algorithms for destruction, and the algorithms that we're seeing at the moment of destruction. So there's a big sort of conversation going on about this, but we can solve it, the first part of solving it is to for all of us to accept it, to see it to see our own behaviour. But any, do you want to kick us off? I came up with a whole bunch of what can we do? Is that Sure? Yeah, sure. I mean, so I'd like to really reflect on the whole fact that we are all addicted. Absolutely right. And I as an inner child therapist, and as a coach, I often look at what is really the heart of addictions, because I work with people on it, I reflect on it for myself, my family. And ultimately, there are two main reasons for addictions. So yes, technology and algorithms are governed in a way or they're organised in a way to really grab our attention and really make us addicted advertising is doing the same thing. However, ultimately, we are the people who are addicted, right? And if they don't do what they are supposed to do, from an ethical perspective, we still do have the control to look at, how are these affecting us? And if we choose that, okay, I have this addiction, I don't want it in my life, we then can look at why do I have it? And there are two main reasons why we do have addictions. One is that we're running away from pain. So should as being every, every alive thing wants to run away from pain, we basically want to avoid pain, right goes to the Buddhist principle, that we have an aversion to what we don't want, right? So we run away from the pain and how do we run away from the pain by creating an escapism, so we basically escape into something so when we have a cigarette, when we have when we have alcohol, it makes us feel like hmm, right, I took a moment to breathe or, or that or the alcohol took me away from my thoughts, or my anxiety or my worry, right? Or when we are into the gaming, right, it takes us away into another alternate world where our problems don't exist for that moment whilst we're immersed in that. And, of course, each one of these addictions will give us that dopamine that is shared in the YouTube video, it gives us a dopamine, dopamine. So in that little momentary moment, it takes us away from our pain. So we feel good. And so then we are hooked. Yeah, because of that feel good. And that dopamine. So the first one is running away from pain. And the second one is, we, which is still running away from pain. So ultimately, it's all about running away from pain. But the second one is that essentially, as a society, we have become more fragmented. We're not living with our loved ones, our families are far away, the world has become much more international, like I'm, for example, living in Singapore, I don't have any family here whatsoever, right? So we are that much more removed from our communities, and people are moving away from their villages or wherever their parents were. And Joe, I don't know, if you might be lucky, you might be living in Singapore, and your family might still be here. But I know Andrea's family are all over the world. Right? Certainly. So I think that that creates a sense of loneliness and avoid, and I think social media is unfortunately, unfortunately, I say absolutely perfect for filling that void of loneliness. I think there is a pandemic within us, which is that we are all lonely people, we are more lonely, even though we are more connected. So I think that is something that we're running away from, which is essentially running away from pain, a kind of pain. Yeah, I found that that whole perspective on seeking pain versus pleasure is sort of what's the what's the code? You know, that's yeah, it's just how we're wired. Right? So. Yeah, and the last sort of 100 years and probably even even the last 50 years, right? We went from scarcity, no, to a huge percentage of the population of the world but not obviously everybody in the world to abundance and access, right. So he really talks about that. And so when you're talking about social media, it to me it wasn't even just about social media. It's about like he visualised the noise of the world so beautifully, I thought, you know, showing, you know, probably Tokyo or New York just signs everywhere. I've been in rooms with people designing technology. So you walk past a Coke machine and it sends a signal to You find him and an ad pops up going, Hey, do you want to Coke, Andrea, you know, and you're just out there. So you go and get one, right? That sort of. And I'm like, well, that's not a good development of technology, there's but this, this constant 24/7 noise coming at us, and we're all actively and willingly participating in until we decide to check out, you know, and then you've got people living up in the woods because they just can't stand it anymore. And we can't understand them, because we're part of this sort of really complex, noisy society. But how much joy is there in our society? You know, are people happy? You know, like, in the last couple of years, it's like, spend time thinking about what makes you what makes you happy? Do you like this? Do you want this back? Do you want to go back to what we left behind, and we're gone, we've gone back into, into the old world in full throttle, with all of this climate emergency on the doorstep. You know, we and you kind of looking at it, and you're like, Oh, my God, we really not getting this lesson out. We, you know, but are we even happy? That's to me. Yeah. I mean, the heart and soul, they've done some sorry, Joe, please continue. Now, I was just gonna say that my my slightly contrarian view is, we've got to watch ourselves for these nostalgia glasses we always put on. Because, you know, we talk about, you know, back in the old days, back in the old days, back in the old days, and I can vividly remember being unhappy when I was young. In simpler times, I can vividly remember, you know, there were there were times when people were very, very, very unhappy. It's, it's, it's partly, I mean, I like to simplify it to simple simplify it to this, right, we're comparative beings, we're very much we're designed to see the difference between this and that. And that's how we were made. And what we are now in is a world where we are being thrown into the fire, where we are shown if we participate in social media, or we have email at what it will be, if someone sending us messages, whatever it is, as long as we're part of the world, right now, we're being shown at a much faster pace, how the world might be better somewhere else, someone's life is a bit better than ours. And what we do is we see the gap. So there's the chasm between what we have and what we want to have. And that is actually the source of most, most unhappiness, right? So the burden of knowing in this case is if you know that something better than your, you're going to be upset, like, you know, the, I can't remember the the full story about there's a story about how the, that there's, the devil is trying to tempt, or someone is trying to tempt, you know, a cardinal and he's beyond temptation, right? And then someone comes along and says, I'll tell you what I'll do. And then and then he just goes up to the Cardinal. And then the next thing is the cardinal is breaking out in violence, and he's cursing and everything. And the question is asked, What did you tell him? He said, Well, I just told him that his brother just became Pope. Your point about nostalgia is a really interesting one, because I totally 100% agree with it. But at the same time, I think that we we also don't allow ourselves to do that. Like, if you actually look at a lot of commentary around nostalgia, and pushing back on it, like you just did. I also think that we we are not allowing ourselves to look back to the best. But I think what we've got to look forward to is a combination of different sort of things, which isn't about the past, and it's about creating a new future, right? Do we want to live in a world? You know, and the biggest point that he's making in that is generational destruction, you know, was one of the terms he used around the impact of technology on our children. So people have suffered from deep trauma, and our kids are up for, like, we don't even know, we don't even know what's going to happen to them, or what you know, we know that female suicide rates are up because girls feel bad about themselves, because they're on Instagram, we know that you saw youth suicide rates, right? We know that mental health all around the world is a massive issue. So we know all of this stuff, right. And at the core of all of this stuff, is the world that we're built from. And it's not just social media, it's advertising, it's, it's technology companies selling products, it's getting those hooks into us, you know, to, to buy into something and you know, the, the natural sort of inclinations of human beings, you know, the psychology behind it all. It's like they've mastered the psychology of how to control us, and where we've stepped into it with, with open arms going control me. Because this is joyful, and I'm getting constant pleasure. But now that I'm getting pleasure from this, I need more pleasure because any addiction requires more and more and more and more, and then we're all out of control. And we're in this world where everyone's just like running around. People Ain't got time to spend with each other families don't spend with each other didn't even have meals together. You know, we A broken we've actually broken our own contracts with our selves as a society and, and we've allowed this to happen. And it's out of control. And now AI has been put into the middle of it. And we're like, oh, come in AI. That's brilliant. Let's let's just embrace you. But how much for how much further until it is? We've seen that we've we can see the societal destruction around us. Yeah, in a social media we can see what the standard democracies around the world. So you know what, at what point what point does it all blow? Yeah, has it already? Well, I want to rejoin rejoin that, but I'm gonna get to Rp you wait, you were about to say something just now? Well, I think there is actually no stopping it, right, just a bit like charge up the conversation. Technology is upon upon us. And people are making billions out of us being addicted to social media and advertising and all of these kinds of things. So I think there is no stopping it, it is a matter of embracing it and looking at what does that really mean. And I go back to you know, Joe's point, I thought that was really interesting, the whole burden of knowing. Because in between the lines, it knocks on something which I visualise almost as a door, it's like a door to wisdom, right? Right now, everyone knows what everyone's up to. And most people are very, very happy and very, very keen and very key very quick to shout about every little thing that happens to them. That's wonderful. Right. And so everyone knows about everyone's successes, and you know, all the fantastic pictures and whatever they're up to. And so, just like you said about the pope story, you know, the the other guy was upset because his brother became a pope. And that makes him upset, whereas actually, he's got nothing to be upset about nothing at all. So I feel like our lives could be incredibly happy if we can gracefully carry this burden of knowing. And if we can find the wisdom within us to gracefully carry this burden of knowing, and I live, I try to, shall I say, I try my best to blow it out and live and breathe through literally, I have to blow myself in, I have to like literally blow, you know, breathe out. Every time I feel overwhelmed by all the things I keep seeing on social media. And you know, naturally sometimes, and I try my best not to every now and then this little thing comes in. Hey, why don't you shout about this. So why don't you do this? And you know, for whatever reason, that's another deep story altogether. I am not motivated anymore. I'm really demotivated, in fact, a shout about all the achievements because I feel like so what? You know, so there is a different part of me that's now here because of my inner child work. I was driven by Yeah, acknowledgments and all of these things, you know, recognition and whatever. But those things drove me to get to where I am. But now I'm not motivated by those things. And I see the fallacy in that right, I see the fallacy and showing off or, or putting it all out there. I don't find it motivating. But yeah, but still in saying that I still feel a part of me still feels and I look, I look at everything on social media. And I think, oh, that person's doing all of these things. And they're talking about it. I'm not what does that say? If I don't talk about all the things that I've just done? In the last whatever, six months? I've not shouted about it? Does it mean something? Or does it not? Should I should I not? Do I have the energy to shout about it not? And if I shout, what's the point anyway? What does it even do to anyone you know? So all of these things come through in my mind? And I just go just breathe it out. It doesn't matter. That burden of knowing, right? Yeah, bring on the wisdom. I always try and participate in alignment with my personal integrity, right. So that's always sort of the what anchors me on social media. And I just don't want to do any of the other stuff. And I don't mind that people do it. But I think if you if we want to change it, one of the things that we can do is participate in a way that we'd like to see the world participating. But I think we need more people doing that versus, you know, because you know, we are a minority still. And I've been doing this for a really long time. And it feels like I'm never going to be able to break through with that message even by showing, you know, leading by example. Right. And that's been a bit of a frustration, but I'm not there for ego. I'm not there for like, I'm not there for any of that stuff. I just, it just does not interest me. It never has never will. But that ego centric, like, life's great. I actually I'm happy to show you in my life shit. And I do it on a regular basis. You know, my husband went through a major operation and I had to think I needed to share it, because he's got friends and family and people who love him around the world. But I was very conscious. How do I share it? How do I respect his privacy and dignity? I asked his permission about what I could share. Some people just share everything You know, everything when it comes to medical there, and I, I'm not comfortable knowing about everybody's medical situation, I don't really want to know your personal, you know what's going on. But some people are really comfortable with that, you know, and that's okay, you know, they're not doing any harm. But I want to just quickly go through Joe, we're going to jump in and say something, I just want to go through some of the conclusions that I picked up when I was watching it. Well, I'll give you a very, very quickly. The problem we have is not the technology, the problem we have is the lack of technology that we have that you know, like, like in terms of like, the world around us is changing technology is all it's building up. But the technology and and I don't mean in terms of electronics, or whatever it is human skills to deal with these things, right? Because at the core of it, if we are just who we are, and we want the world to work the way we are, that means that there's no room for development, the world can't change. The problem now is the rate of change is so fast. We're surrounded by these circumstances, which by the way, I mean, look, even in a group of 100 people, the real obligation was to be good at what you do, you did. And so people would know it. But because you were only competing with 100 people, it was easier to be the best barber, you know, right now is that you can be really good as a barber, and you can put on tick tock and you instantly know that you're nowhere close to being the best. Right? And in fact, you don't even feel like you've talked about the imposter syndrome that we always feel, right. I mean, now, how much worse is that? Because I'm kind of good at what I do. But really, when I look to the left and right on me, oh, when I think about what other people can see when they look to the left and right of themselves, is the fact that I am not as good as this. So what was a fallacy of the imposter syndrome is actually now becoming more real, that we can actually prove that you're not the best at what you do. And we can actually prove you're not the best top 10 in the world. And now we can actually kind of prove that you're not the top 100 in the world, you know, so it's a, it's a technology issue, we need to we need to add more technology to ourselves, I think. And that's maybe where AI is gonna come in, because I think AI can be programmed in such a way to be your outer self, because I picture a world in the future where and and this will be where there's going to be a digital gap, there's going to be economic gap as well. But it'd be very interesting if I could protect myself with AI, so that, then I can deal with the world in a way that's not going to trigger me as much. That's one way of thinking about things. But we have an opportunity to work on ourselves where we don't get triggered anyway. That's the question that always fundamentally was for me is like, it's like we, we work so hard to deny who we are. And that seems to be the ultimate solution. You know, like we because we react to things, we get angry with things. And that's actually who we are. But we have to deny ourselves of that for the world to happen. Is there a way where we can come we can reframe it, so that instead of this being the stressful, you know, bungee jump, it's the exciting thing that happens. I mean, so that's, that's the conundrum my final, you know, like, like, there's because we're human beings, we interpret things as we do. And we give power to so many things, because we tell the story to ourselves about what this is about. And sometimes, like, like you mentioned before, you know, it's like, it really doesn't matter. In the end, no one will remember me in 100 years, hobby, any one of us. Anything I say right now my opinion, it's not going to make a difference, really. But we feel as though that this is such an important thing that everyone's listening to us. That comment, Joe, knowing who you are, I thought was a really interesting one, Joe, because I don't think I spent any time denying who I am. So yeah, that was gonna I don't, I have never felt that from you either. But that's I think it's quite a complex thing that you just said. So one of the things so me, did you want to jump in on that? Point? I actually if that's okay. Yeah. Yeah, because we have to control and deny who we are, if who we are, isn't really ultimately aligned to who we like to be, somehow. But if we and there is a way and this is why I became I went into this whole inner child work because there really is a way for us to work on things within us in such a way that we don't have these reactions of anger. We don't have these drivers that we're not proud of meaning that we then start to get new drivers so I've gotten rid of so many drivers and I'm feeling a void. I have a say and to be quite honest, what Andrea said earlier have really inspired me in, in between the lines like a mentor to understand how can I then fill this void? So if I've gotten rid of some parts of my ego, and all those internal drivers of recognition and whatever, yeah, then what makes me want to be on social media and share anything. But I think I really heard what you said there is that it's all it's all about them, what do you stand for? And you talk about that. And that inspires me that when I start talking about that, I will not stop, and you'll see me everywhere. But I haven't really to be quite honest, I haven't really begun fully expressing or sharing publicly, what I really feel inside. But yeah, that day will come one day, Andrea, thank you for that inspiration there. But yeah, Joe, I just wanted to add to that, that basically, I think it's not about we must not deny ourselves, we can never control what's within. It's just, it's just never gonna happen. So we then we want to be within who we want to be outside. And that is actually possible. I've got a book for you. That might help. That's, that's what I've got my garage is all about the journey within, right. And it's sort of my journey, but it's also the wider journey of walking around the world. But one of the things that I found really, really effective about the way this video was filmed was the majority of time you saw him, he was in nature. And if you didn't notice that he was talking about what is the landscape that you want to live in. And he was talking about digital landscape, where, you know, he's in these busy cities, and it's like bb, bb, bb, bb. And then the other time he was in nature, and I think that's I thought that was a very subtle and beautiful part of the video. It's like, I do think we need to start asking ourselves that question, how much do we want to be in a digital landscape? You know, my, my boys are virtual reality headsets. I love it. Like I don't even want to put one on, I've got no interest in it. But you know, we've got to, we've got to start to ask ourselves the questions. As parents, we've got to ask ourselves the questions. We can't keep the kids away from it, they need, it's healthy for them to be able to use the technology that's coming through. But we've also got to keep nature. Because if we actually close nature off to our attention, we're certainly not going to save it. That you know, there's that movie where they're everyone's living in these absolute dumps, but they've all got virtual reality where they're living in these beautiful worlds to kind of remember them them in the movie. And it's kind of almost feels like if we if we don't pay attention to the natural world, we're going to destroy it, and then build a society where we're going to live in the digital world permanently, because it's more beautiful than the natural world. But it was living in the digital world that created the natural world. You know what I mean? So I think I think it showed a real fine line there that we're on a, we're on the cusp. Did you guys pick that side up? Yeah, I love this video. I love the visuals. You know, I love the visuals of how he uses the word language and you know about landscape. And then he's in this beautiful landscape. And then there is all this digital stuff happening. I wanted to touch upon a fantastic point, a really, really important point that Joe made about the lack of technology. Because I think we are this this wisdom that we also need for us to, in a sense, protect ourselves from the influx, demanding influx of the digital world, I think there is a lack of tech there because as a mom with two teenage kids and a six year old, my husband is a proper techy guy. And if he can work out all the firewalls and anyone can do that, then then he should be able to shall I say, but my 13 year old son is totally able to hack into the system and break all the protection that he puts in, right. So I think there is actually I think we don't have the right applications and the right systems that helps the parent protect kids if they want to be protected. And on that note, I wanted to mention that kids do want to be protected by the way, like my 13 year old and my six year old, both of them, come and tell me that Mommy, please take away. My technology helped me take away my technology. So on that day, when I was walking, when you asked me to do this show, it was 930 in the evening, I was walking with my husband, I get a call from him saying Mommy, you need to help me you can you ask daddy to ban this thing? And can you can you answer it to ban all the applications except Duolingo on my iPad? Because I'm using it too much. And I don't want to stop using it either. And I need some help. Right. That's a six year old telling me right. Yeah, yeah, I think there was a couple of weeks ago I put a story in the weekend rates and it was just talking about how if you can empower your children to make their own decisions around technology that and it's and that's basically what I've done right. Jax was My father in law, he's 15. Now, he wasn't doing great at school for a period. So we basically took his PSA away from him, right. And it was, it was a few months. And by the time he got it back, I mean, you're obviously excited. He's the gamer of the two, he was so excited. But before that, he said, it's been really nice having a break from the technology. And ever since he's gone back, he, he does have a self regulation to technology. So I think that's what we've got to try and partner with our kids because it's not going to go away. And I think if you create, if you give them personal responsibility, you're going to, you're going to have more success. If you if you're, if it's antagonistic, then you're never going to win. A couple of things that I really thought was important. And, you know, because I've been reading about this sort of stuff a lot. But I think it's really important that we start taking some responsibility for understanding how our brains work, and how we're wired, and why we respond to things that we do. And you know, the role of dopamine in our lives. There's loads of information on this, like loads of information, I share lots of it, you know, it's from how the political landscape is now being used and abused from a social media perspective, how the media use and how advertisers you to use it, there's degrees you can do at universities around the world where you can learn how to manipulate people to do your bidding. And of course, you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff around how Putin has used social media for more than a decade, and has basically been waging war. And a lot of the destruction that we're seeing in democratic societies is linked back to this strategy. And that's some really interesting stuff. But it's all the way to our acceptance of it, like, our acceptance without thinking, I think that's something and if we can understand if we can understand our brain, I, I think we can do, we can help ourselves a lot. But the big, essential message for me, and the whole sort of story, and the mess that we've found ourselves in, I suppose we are out of control individually. And we are out of control collectively. And we have to take that control back. And that was one of the sort of conclusions that I really took away from it. Like, you know, we accept all this new stuff. But even though we know that there's bad stuff, we still accept the new stuff and get excited about it. And then there's this wreckage in following us of destruction. We saw it with social media, with the elections and, you know, the crumbling democracies around the world. And we know that it's all linked to what's going on with technology, and yet we still accept it. But the bigger message was businesses, the technology and social media companies have to change. Just this week, tick tock announced that for all users under 18, they're going to set it up so that they can only use it for an hour a day. They can, there is a way of getting past that, but it's a start, you know, it's a start. Right. So I think, you know, we've we've got to look at our responsibility to big takeaways. Well, okay, well, for me, it's always the thing I've always said that the the the the the end of the world's problems, and will not be in at least the part of the world, a better world is always going to be through benevolent dictators. And I think ultimately, you need to have someone come across and say, No, this is not good for you stop it. You know that. And that is, unfortunately, that's the kind of thing that crosses the line in terms of freedom. And, you know, you know, we've a constitution in my face, because you know, it's not ethical and what have you. I always think that if there is sometimes there's a, there's a simple way for things to happen, and you go like, well, if you do this, you will die. And you have to make the threat real, right. So in most things, like you said, you know, people tell you, I can't do this, I can't do that. Okay, listen, I've got a gun, and I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to take you out if you don't do this, they can do it. You know, that's usually what it is. So it's about the reality that the closeness or the the how imminent the threat really is and how real the threat is. And we've got to figure away and I think that's going to be the heart of most, most behaviour in terms of getting it getting us to behave better. We have to understand what what is imminent? Well, it's really, really important for us, I think we have to learn to to help ourselves, feel it. If you do a bit of you know, like time travelling the future, how will I feel, if this isn't done in 20 days, and whatever it is, for me, I gotta tell you. The problem is, if we know how to do it, it makes it very hard for us to use it. Because for myself, I know so much of this, no one can approach me without me knowing what they're going to be doing. You know, I kind of know what the Kung Fu is about, right? So we need a bunch of benevolent dictators. Can anyone say LK y? Who can figure out a way to help society go in the way it needs to go. And then, of course, with an overall view that says, this is this is, this is good enough, you know, I think the big problem that we face, and then this bit of wisdom came from a wealth of all people, Jimmy Carr is that we, we don't have enough, we never get to enough. We never, we never feel that this is enough. And so even if we're having a discussion, I'll tell you a real life story that we had, we were talking about one particular topic, and I very rare for me to agree on everything. And I agreed on every single aspect of it, the behaviour, whatever it is going forward. And I only said, but there was only one thing that I that I don't want. And it was just about the label, how we how we describe this. And that wasn't enough, you know, so we've got it, we got to come to a point I'm I'm learning for myself to get to the point where like, you know, what, 80% 50%? That's actually enough. Yeah. I think your comment about the benevolent dictators is interesting, because, obviously, we live in a world where you know, from the right, it's all about less government. And actually, what the world needs right now is more government. So that's a fight that's going to come because what's happening here, and this whole point is that this is this is the market at play. And we've lost our cultural, political, social, we've lost our guideposts that we had traditionally, because the market has become the guidepost. And hello, this is what it looks like. Do we still want it? Are we ready? Are we ready to wake up? Are we going to keep fighting for? You know? Sorry? I think it was difficult. Yeah, no, I know, I agree with you like, are we going to keep fighting for something that was before? Or are we just going to accept it? Right? So you know, on your thoughts, but I agree with both of you. And then something else on top of it is that? So? Andrea, you're saying that things are changing rapidly. And we are things are coming to us in a way that feels like it's out of control. And that is the way it is. And that's the way it's going to be there's simply no stopping that. Right? I think technology is going to come at us at an insanely rapid speed. Now, especially the development will speed up quantum computers are coming our way. And so with the advancement of quantum computers and AI together, I mean, technology is going to come at us at even faster speeds, faster pace, and it has so far, this is I think, just the beginning of a wave. So we just got to have to embrace it. And Joe's point about having benevolent leaders or somebody who can really be odic dictator who can really come in and say, This is how it needs to be. And this is righteous. Again, I I wish and I hope, but I don't really see that that's necessarily going to happen. I hope he does. But I really don't think so. Right? If it's going to work on his sales pitch for that one, right? Yeah, I really wish you can. Yeah. Because if that because if we could have a dictator like that, I would, I would wish for a dictator like that to come and stop all the wars to begin with. Right? All the killing, right first, before they look control the technology. If we can have a leader like that in the world, I'd like them to do something else. But I don't think that's necessarily coming either. So I think nobody I'm not benevolent anyway. Yeah. The dictators are coming, but not the benevolent ones. Yeah, but so we can be we can be our own leaders. And I guess we can be our own guiding posts, right, we can work on ourselves, and we have that control. So I guess my message really is that the lack of control is going to come away, and no one's going to help us gain any control except ourselves. It really is, you know, me, myself and I, who has to manage my life, and all the things that are happening within and same message goes to a six year old as it goes to a 1330 or whatever, 100 year old, right? That it is up to us. Whatever we can do, is what we can do. We can't necessarily rely on others to do anything for us, per se. Yeah, but we can work towards pushing the pushing these global brands to change their business practices so that they stop destroying society society, we can vote vote for the sort of leaders that we need in the world right now and support them to succeed. You know, there is a lot that we can do. But of course taking taking care of ourselves and our own mindsets and educating ourselves and being you know, more switched on to what's going on and working to to solve the divisions that exist in the world. You know, there's a lot that we can do and a lot of people are feeling useless and I just I just really want to encourage people to stop feeling useless. There's so much that we can do you know, even if you're just picking up rubbish on the beach He's saying you care and you want to be part of the problem solution, not the problem, right. So just get involved in in any way that you can to address the big, big problems that are going on, I think we need a sort of a council of matriarchs and ambassadors, who, you know, the best people, you know, the greatest people will do with big hearts in full of compassion and empathy, who, who basically just, they're, they're like guides for the world? You know, I think we need something, we need something new, something we've never seen before. Because if we don't do it, self destruction is imminent. Yeah. But it's also an opportunity, it's an opportunity for those businessmen or those opportunistic, smart people out there who are developing the technology to hear this and hear the fact that there is a hopelessness that people feel there is this addiction, there is these issues that people feel that they can't control technology. So that's an opportunity for somebody out there who's listening in to develop software, develop applications that we will buy, we will buy with open arms and spend a lot of money on it to help. The only way that works is if we change the whole economic system, because currently, it's all about making money, right? We have to change the the incentive, what is success look like? And it's about if we want to build a better world, we actually I mean, big part of creating a better world is completely revamping the global economy anyway, away from growth and GDP and as a measure to human wellbeing, so that we can flourish. So that's one of the big sort of stories in the world at the moment as well. Anyway, let's wrap up. We've gone a little bit over which we always do, but that's okay. What's keeping you distracted at the moment? Well, I if I am not sure if I mentioned this before, but the series Pokerface we with Natasha Leone, if you like if you like Colombo back in the old days, this weekend nostalgia This is a show which has a very simple premise. She's someone who can always tell if you're telling a lie. And that little piece of logic, and of course, her personality, he makes the show a very entertaining one to watch. How you find the show? Well, that's going to be your little challenge using the internet and associated technologies. Okay, whenever Where have you been watching it? It's well, it's actually streaming on peacock. So what are the surprising one of the surprising one of the surprising things successes is that you know, most people were just talking about all streaming companies coming up and it's gonna be another also ran, Peacock has managed to come up with a number of compelling shows, and poker face is one of them. The other show that I cannot recommend it is a new series from Apple TV is shrinking. And that one is one of those rare things where you get to see Harrison Ford did a TV series Harrison Ford HDS decided to do two TV series and it's kind of like learn the world. Shrinking is one of them. The other 119 23 which I have not seen at all, but a shrinking is good shrinking is about it's about psychiatrists, and and how they try to try to solve the problems of the world and again, restricted within what they what they have to get through it to combat them. So you know, like to be a psychiatrist you're supposed to be they're supposed to be that. How do you do that without being that? All right, you got some you got some people who are agreeing with you. We've got Clinton, Vicki, Cindy, Ms. Oh, contributing to the conversation. Thanks, guys. We appreciate you being here. Abby, what's keeping me distracted is I'm in the process of starting to write a book for penguin. It's about my coach training system, that happy coaching system for businesses, organisations and teams. So that's keeping me busy. And the other thing keeping me busy is I have really refocused my attention away from some of those. I basically gave up a really senior position in an institute because I wanted to and I really need to focus on the book and also my kids. So my kids are taking up a lot of my time in a happy way in a good way. So which I didn't do as much of a few years ago, but now suddenly, yeah, new awakening, call it whatever new me, but I'm just letting go of a lot of things in one place, but then putting that investment into my kids and I'm enjoying that. So yeah, that's what's keeping me happily distracted. Yeah, that's how I'm doing it all. And Vicki's recommending Mrs. America that that already sounds interesting. I'm just been I'm gonna have a cough but I'm totally with you have any like the focus on on the children. So my boys are 15 and 16. Now, right? And they're starting to get towards that intense end of education. So obviously spending time with them, making sure that they're on track and You're just doing their best. I don't like to put too much pressure on him, but you don't you know, and emotional support and social support all the stuff that comes with being a kid. Right? So being a present parent, but um, yeah, so my my week of entertainment has been the latest season of drive to survive. You guys watched it? Oh, yeah. I saw it all in one night. That the whole series like even even 2022. Yeah, I mean, the whole the whole new series, the whole new season. I caught it all in one night. I called the whole season live mafia. I mean, there isn't a whole season of racing. But I watched the I watched the show. I mean, look, that's that. If anything, that's an indication of what's going to happen with f1 in the US this year, because it's just, it's the big marketing. is the show that markets for sure, right? I mean, it's such a, it's all about Formula One. And it's sort of really shows all the characters of all the drivers. So Daniel, Daniel Ricardos, an Australian Formula One driver. So he was in the first season, he was obviously the first of the drivers to say, Yeah, I'll be part of this Netflix thing. And it's taken off around the world. And it's a huge global success. And it's obviously generated so much more interested in Formula One. And you know, it, I love it. So yeah, you everything, you might just watch it for understanding the mindset of a Formula One driver, so people who are driving at the highest speeds, you know, this, they make decisions in sort of fractions of seconds. And, and you like, into understanding the mindset of them. And some of them are goofy or a bit crazy. And some of them are so like, hard. And they're not even, they're not warm, and they're not friendly, right. But it's a really interesting mindset. As well as the team's, you made all the different teams, the managers, the principals, all that sort of stuff. So it's a really fascinating programme, and I've recommended it or they've launched one now, the same team on professional golf. I'm not as interested in watching that, but I've enjoyed the Formula One. There's one with golf with one also, I think same producers who are also doing tennis, they all get into that, actually, you know, I want to save you 100 hours this year. Okay. We wait for next year's drive to survive, and you will save yourself 100 hours because you don't you don't need to watch the actual races because they're boring. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an interesting sort of angle like of storytelling, like the only consistent thing in every drug to survive is is the red lights going for restarts? And everything else is how do they tell this story? I've it's like a four seasons now. They're telling the same story in in different ways from different angles. And I find it from a storytelling perspective, I found that the people behind it are doing an excellent job. Yeah, well, it's a great it's a great for anybody who's a speaker, it's a great source for leadership, leadership to stories, because you hear so much you see so much. And there's a management style, you know, because it's if you think it's hard to manage the office that you've got, try and have, try and have a room where everyone is a multimillionaire and you have to kind of get them to do what you want them to do. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. No, sounds like a fun. Yeah. But speaking of Netflix, travellers in manifest and my two favourite TV programmes, I mean to my sci fi with my hubby, and so we watch them, you know, I don't Yeah, maybe one of the travellers and what is different Chinese? Yeah. All right. Awesome. Thanks, everyone for tuning in and having a listen, we really appreciate it. Oh, wait a minute. Picard. Clint Clinton is adding Picard for Star Trek nerds like me out there. I am not a Star Trek nerd. So once again, thanks. All right. Abby, thanks for joining us. It was you jumped in and you jumped in the last minute and you really helped me out. Because I'm finding I'm still floating a little bit in my life trying to just manage everything that's been going on. So I really appreciate you jumping in supporting us. And the perfect person for the topic. You know, I'd already chosen that before I even reached out to you. So it's so good to see you get does so we'll see you all in a couple of weeks. Right? Yeah, big everyone. Anything for you, Andrew and Joe and thank you very much for having me here. It's It's been fun. Cool. Happy weekend, everyone.