Climate Courage: is where I’m living safe?

One of the biggest issues on most minds today is, regardless of where we live in the world, will we be safe to stay where we are and if so, for how long? Many are having these conversations privately with spouses and families, while in the meantime, hedge fund managers and investors are buying up land that appears desirable in the future.

Climate migration is expected to pick up pace too, but is it best to move before? Or is it best to wait and see what unfolds? The truth is, there is no clear answer from all the data and research being released but being aware of the risks locally is critical. We don’t want to be shocked into action after-the-fact, when it’s going to be a lot harder with potentially millions on the move at the same time. However, neither do we want to move too soon, especially if it proves unnecessary. 

Who knows, we might be able to get this climate emergency front and centre, which may reduce impact. But right now, what is needed for that to happen is not happening – aka emissions are only going in one direction – UP!

I am thrilled to welcome Kate Marsden on the show this week. Kate and her family lost everything in the Queensland floods this year, and she has struggled ever since. She is going to share her experiences and observations from this devastating event, as well as the emotions, so we can learn from someone who has already been in the eye of the storm.

I’m also delighted to welcome Samantha Gayfer as my co-host, someone who has been pondering this for her family too. Between the three of us, we will be able to cover Australia, Asia and all the way to Canada. 

Join us for a wide-ranging conversation, and let’s all start thinking about what is at risk, so we can push for the systemic change needed that won’t result in millions of us having to move. In the meantime, let’s make sure we are prepared!

#ClimateCourage #UncommonCourage 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

Unknown: 0:02

Welcome to climate courage. I'm Andrea Edwards. And I'm Smith the golfer. And I'm so happy to have you here. I hated doing it by myself last week. I love the conversation in the banter. I'm always out of that. That yeah, it's just the other perspectives. And I think different people pay attention to different things. And it's really important to hear different perspectives rather than just your own because you can easily go down your own rabbit holes if you if you're not careful, right? Absolutely, absolutely. It's what we're talking about with the LinkedIn algorithm, like, are more people talking about climate change? Or am I just seeing more of it? Because that's because you're talking about? Exactly, no, I definitely, definitely the conversation has, has gone off gone through the roof. So just a reminder, climate courage, this is about focusing on the actions that we can all take. The only way that we can survive in the future is if we, we do implement systemic change right across the board. But in the meantime, while that's not happening, how we think about it, what we do, the actions we do, how we vote that that all matters, right? So that's what we're here to really talk about. And the topic today is where I'm living safe. And I thought this was a pretty early, early, important one to sort of talk about, it's not about creating a sense of panic, it's just about saying, it's time for us all to take responsibility for where we are, because this isn't actually about us. It's about our children's future. And some of us are living in places that will be unlivable as we move forward. So that's kind of the gist of what we're doing today, here. But Sam, I've got a bit of a quandary that I wanted to share with you. Lots and lots of people talk to me about their dreams for the future. And I'm forced to bite my tongue because I don't want to be that person in the room. That's always saying that you can't do that. Because no one's going to invite me anywhere. And I'm sure the invitations have already started dropping, dropping off anyway. But you know, like, someone recently told me a story, how they wanted to sort of move out to the sort of farm area and have a farm and I'm sitting there going, but it's going to be too hot to leave, and there'll be no access to fresh water. So that's not even possible. And then I have other friends who are either buying or renovating homes, and I know that before the end of this decade, the ocean will be coming down their road. And I don't want to tell people that I figure, you know, we need to sort of be aware of what's coming at us and then make decisions, you know, that that are going to mean that you know, we're not left with a stranded asset like a house. Right. But it's a difficult one, do you find yourself in that position? Yeah, and I think it depends on on who it is. Ironically, I was hiking this morning, with a bunch of women here in Malaysia, most of whom have husbands who work for Shell. Right. And I was talking about coming on to do this with you today and what it was about, and one of the women was like, oh, like my son is doing a project on that. And they're from Texas. Yeah. And I was sort of saying, Well, you know, like, have you thought about? And she's like, Oh, I think we'll stay abroad until the kids are done school. And, and, and I was like, well, but you know, have you looked at any of the climate maps to look at where your home is? And whether or not it'll be safe? And she was like, No, I don't know anything about that. Yeah. And I part of me is like, is that a strategic choice? Right? Because if you do know about it, and your life is embedded in Shell, then then you have other conversations at home you each have, or is it just literally not aware? And so I sent her the the heat map and the flood map of the states when I got home. Because I mean, okay, maybe you don't ever talk to me again. But maybe you also end up being somewhere that's actually hospitable for your three kids. And I don't know, I'm willing to take that gamble. I think it depends on who it is. I think it's harder when it's family. It's harder when it's somebody who's, uh, you know, in denial. It's a lot easier to me when it's just someone who doesn't know. Yeah, because then it's more about like, well, you know, maybe look at what, what's, what's that, you know, we come from a town on a lake in Canada, where we're very lucky because sea rise isn't gonna affect the lake. But, you know, we've always joked, like, you don't want the house that's on the beach. You want the house three streets up from the beach. You know, it's, it's the reality, and I think I think people do need to talk about it. Yeah. And so I just look at it like sharing information. without washing dreams. Just say like, Hey, well have you you know, have you considered Whether you'll be able to insure that house in 10 years, then you're not saying don't do it, don't build it. You're just saying like, Hey, I'm concerned about your interest here. So here's some more information. And I just sent them links, you know, yeah, I didn't talk about it much on the hike. And then afterwards, I was just like, hey, this is, you know, a little bit of what we were talking about. And she was like, Oh, thanks. Yeah, your husband might not thank me. But yeah, so when I talk to people, most people go, but it's not gonna happen to 2100. Right. And basically, if you're under, under 65, you will experience catastrophe in the country that you live in. So that's, that's, you know, I think, if you haven't remembered, yeah, exactly right. But and we're gonna, we're gonna hear about somebody's experience of catastrophe, and really understand, you know, what it's like, but what's happening in the environment now wasn't expected till 2050. According to the climate scientists, they're shocked that 1.2 degrees global warming is here, and this is what it's creating. So everything is now happening faster, the weather is more severe, it's happening more frequently, larger and larger areas are being impacted. And this is all happening. And we're not even being told, or what we even believe, is not aligned with the truth of what we're facing. So the question is, you know, what can we do about it? When should we do something about it, you don't want to make a decision too soon. But you don't want to make it too late either. Because you can make it too late, then you're in the, in the migration, when millions of people will be moving, and then it's much more difficult. But it's actually a really, really, really complicated topic. And I've been looking, at least for years, and I still don't know the answer to the question, because our priority now is not us. It's our children. Where can we put them on this planet where they have the best chance of survival, so any decision we make is for them, not for us. And I still don't know the answer to that, because there's so many variables in the mix. So I'm not surprised people are confused by it. But we'll talk about some of the things to sort of really start paying attention to so that we can be responsible. But before we do that, I want to introduce you to a very, very special guest. And it's my friend Kate mazdan, who I met in Singapore, we only actually ever met once, maybe twice in person. And most of our friendship has actually been built digitally. But the bond was strong. And she her family lost everything in the floods, or one one set of the floods in Australia this year. They've had a terrible time since she's just moved for the sixth time this year. So please welcome the lovely Kate Melton. Hello. Hello, hello. Hello, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. And just before I kick off, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional landowners that are the lead that I'm from here. The younger people, and I'm coming from meanjin in Brisbane, Australia. So I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and future. So thank you so much for having me. And, yes, the floods. So, just to touch on ARM, I was listening to your introduction, then Andrea and making a few notes. And yeah, like, there's just so much to say about this. I'll start on my own story and just kind of, you know, give a brief account of what happened at the end of February. And I think the thing that we need to kind of think about and talk about is the mitigating circumstances of that, and just what chaos it just throws society into, and it just completely unravels everything. It's been a really hard year. But I'm always inclined to be positive and cup half full. And I've seen just the most incredible acts of kindness, and community. And I feel like Australia has really listened to the messages. And you know, yeah, we voted in the right way. So that's, that's good. But let me just go back to what happened at the beginning of the year. So we moved from Singapore, in 2020, in the middle of the pandemic, don't recommend and we came back to Australia to kind of, you know, put down roots I've been away for 10 years and just give it a shot and see how it goes. And moved into the same neighbourhood as my sister and her children and my parents and sort of just We can have the dream of the backyard and having everyone together, going to the same schools, and we had this lovely house in a flooded neighbourhood. When we inspected the house, the real estate agent told us about the floods. He said that it was flooded up to the ceiling in 2011. But we haven't had them for ages. And again, just as a bit of a backstory as well, in 2011, there was some catastrophic floods in Brisbane as well. And Brisbane is ostensibly a giant floodplain. And I don't know why we keep building on it like this is another thing to kind of think about too, is that properties are still being built. People are fixing their properties and living on these still. So 2011 I was here for that. And I'm really grateful in hindsight that I had that experience because it was knowing what the precursors and what are the signals that are leading up to that that actually saved our bacon at the end of the day. My husband's English, so he had no clue. So we were living next to a pony club is it was beautiful. It was so lovely looking Alex's beautiful vista. And at the beginning of the year, it just rained, and it rained, and it rained, and it rained and rained and it rained. Brisbane was opening up from COVID as well, Queensland had been sort of shut down from the rest of the world. And which meant we didn't have any COVID. So it opened up, and then everybody had it. So our family got it. And we're back to back. And it was also my youngest, sorry, my eldest child, that was his first week of school. So he started school in February, February 7. And then February 14, Valentine's Day, my husband came home with COVID. And so he had it for a week. Then I had it for a week. And Solomon, the youngest head of awake, so we were in lockdown for three weeks, and the rain and the rain and the rain and the rain and the rain. And I was just thinking like, this is not good. This isn't stopping this is like 2011 that anxiety sort of kicked in. And just that heightened and also, you know, Cabin Fever being locked in with my kids for three weeks. And it was a Friday night. And I could see the water like rising across the road up from the paddocks. And I think it was like Saturday morning at like 3am Actually, the night before I was talking to my mom, and she said, you know, we were laughing I was like, ha ha ha ha, or, you know, I bet the thing that breaks us out of our quarantine is like we get evacuated from our house hahahahaha. And she said, Look, just just call like, don't feel ridiculous about it. Like just phone, whenever you need us to come, we'll bail everyone out and just do that. So 530, the Saturday morning, I was just up not sleeping anxious, looked outside, and just the water was almost up to the road. The Facebook community groups were going crazy. And you know, like, has anyone seen this debt? Like posting pictures? And yeah, that was just I was like, no, no, no, no, no, this is this is 2011. So at 5am Put up a bat signal to the family. Everybody just kind of got in their cars came straight over by 530. And we were just we just loaded in all of the stuff that mattered, you know, the stuff that you would think I would really miss that. So, you know, passports, birth certificates, all of that really important sort of life had been stuff but, you know, like, like, the kids like birth records and you know, like photos and artwork and labs and you know that things that that make us us and we're really fortunate that you know, a that my family were so magnanimous on one hand, we were able to just take the stuff with us that mattered. And everything else we just kind of left. And I remember like a 5am like just barging into Jonathan's store. I'm like, get out we're evacuating and he was like, what what like he had been out drinking the night before it was a bit dusty mate Welcome to Australia and and he had no idea and you know we're all just like oh, we're gonna get to like it was just kind of the second nature to anyone that had been there before like putting car gonna get sandbags, blah blah. And by far I think we were out of there by we did like two loads. We were out by nine and As the water was coming up over the street, like you could hear this de luz where the golf club is, which is 100 metres away. Danglers. Like, like you're standing next to a river. And we, it was actually like funny because everybody on our street who had who were all there in 2000, Levin and who all lost everything. They're all kind of, you know, out on the road and checking it out. And there was like this young guy, and he must have been about 12. He was a baby. And he came out to me was like, Ah, you here in 2011? And I was like, yep, yep. But I was over an entropy. And he was like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was rough. Went up, went up today. And I was like, How old are you? And then he looked at us putting everything in the car and he went, are you ditching? Like, we were the first bit like, you're not from around these parts? Are you kind of saying, like, we were just kind of like, yeah, just no. And I was like, No, I must. Yes, of course, I'm ditching, like, laters catch you by no one was moving. No one was doing anything. And, yeah, we felt really self conscious. But by 930, like, the whole, the streets have been shut off around us. And next door neighbor's had to be. They had to call the SES to come and get them in a boat by 2pm. That afternoon. So that's how fast it all went up. Like, it just does not. With the evacuation orders in the mix? Oh, no, none. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no text messages, no messages to say, this is where you can go for sandbags, no preparation, no. Nothing, nothing. Because we were all banking on this thing of like, we're all told after 2011. And there was this huge inquiry into, into, like, why did 2011 happen? And they said that it was like human error and that they didn't like let the dam let the water out of the dams fast enough like or? Yeah, it's had something to do with letting the water levels down. And that dragged on for years. And then they were like, no bad humans. We won't do that, again. No more floods. And so, you know, we forget quickly as humans, we also forget very quickly, as humans in the middle of the housing crisis were flooded properties. Everyone's just like, got, like, panicked, and they've got, like, fear. And all the houses along our street. We're all getting sold. And you can you tell everyone was like really trepidatious about it because they weren't selling but then everything just went through the roof. And they all sold and the house that we were in, we were renting while we're waiting for another one to be built. The woman had just bought it like a week before. So yeah, awful. So Brisbane had just kind of this collective memory was just completely wiped because people were so scared about buying property and having houses. And it's yeah, we just, it was it was crazy. Like it was crazy. It just it just happened again, and worse and in different ways. Like I was speaking to some friends, and they were in the north side, which doesn't like it didn't flood in 2011. But they got annihilated this time. So you can't predict how it's going to go and you can't this there's types of flooding. And so when you buy property here, you look at like, flood maps. So anyone buying in Brisbane knows that the flood map first. But what does that what do we do with that information now, like we've got the message, and going back to what you were saying before, Andrea with the debt assets, like that's the entire neighbourhood now, and it's devastating. And it's devastating, like we know so many people that have lost their homes, insurance still isn't paying out still. Still this happened on the 27th of February. And insurance still haven't paid people out. People are living off their savings. People were staying with friends like us and yeah, just the knock on effects of what happens when I think in. I think in Brisbane, there was 19,000 families that lost their homes like that's 19,000 homes. And yeah, just trying to get back on your feet after that in the community. And what do people do after that? You know, like, what do people do who have these homes, as you say, like that the completely gutted now that they've got no money, they can't rebuild their home, they can't sell their home. They've been there for 30 years, like, what do they like? It's, that is like, a new, we'd be okay, we'll be fine. And we've been so lucky. And again, like the positive through this was that, you know, we have networks, we are well supported. My husband and I are educated, we've got a job like, we were in really good stead to handle something like this. And for me, it's the families and the, anybody that's affected by this that doesn't have those access to the things that we were able to have access to. And even when we were able to access these things, fighting the system, or trying to get not fighting, trying to access a system to get anything from the system is mind bogglingly insane. And have you ever seen that film I Daniel Blake by Ken Loach about like just that kind of a Sisyphean nightmare of dealing with like, the guy that has the heart attack? Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the most powerful movies I've ever seen. And real, real indication of what's wrong in the world. So it's funny, I've never been able to remember its name. But I've always had it been, especially the single mother, who was moved from her community, to another city, because the home in London was full of mould and the but then she was moved to another city to get housing, which was equally bad. But she had no community. So yeah, all of it. But yeah, this systemic sort of, you know, so you know, Australia, the, you see the amount of money going towards fossil fuels, but emergency services like fire, and floods are not being or not being invested in. And, you know, those flood flood maps that you were referencing, as we saw in Pakistan, how relevant are the flood maps, so it's all, it's all happening. So if you're outside, just outside the flood maps, you might actually be still a target for a future flood because the weather is getting more and more extreme. So this, ignoring it, and we've done it before, we'll get through it again. But we're in a new phase now. Yeah. And we have to get ready for it. Oh, 1,000%. And it's that resilient stuff as well. And, you know, like, how do we prepare ourselves for this? And after that happened, like I said, under your nose, I'm fairly politically motivated by most of my decisions, and I've always considered myself, you know, like, I'm interested in this stuff. I, I think it's important that we are all engaged and aware and sort of lend our voices to people that don't have the same, you know, platforms as we do. And just yeah, it just, it just, it just absolutely blew my mind. How the hypocrisy, the just the cheap lip service that politicians will pay, to get to get reelected, to get them like to make it look like they they're doing something. And, you know, like a good example of this was, again, like Brisbane City itself is, is LNP. So so large, l conservative, Tory for international listeners. So Brisbane City Council is like run by the Conservative government. And then you've got the state is run by the Labour government. So the left wing and internationally federally at sorry, nationally, federal at the time, it was, again, the Conservative government. So you've got like, all these different tiers of government that are responsible for different things, that you've got to learn how to kind of access that and, or to lobby it or to petition it or to write about like, it just it was just, it's just so confusing. It was just, it was awful and, and to kind of look those local councillors in the eye, like one of them I know from like school pickups and drop offs and stuff like we're the same age of kids who's scraping together and I just couldn't, like face her cuz I'm just like, how can you look to kids? Look your kids in the ally And stand for this stuff like, you're a politician. And like, you may not be affected by this. But it just, it's so disingenuous to me that then you come out and you're all about helping in the community and rebuilding and I'm like, the singular way that you are going to help is by acknowledging that this is happening, and doing something about it. And I don't know, like, and I feel like, again, going back to the positives, that there was so many people that felt the same way. And that's, you know, in, in Queensland, where I live is traditionally like, very conservative, and it's a large state. And it's like, you know, like, this is big farming populations and like, yeah, it's, it's, it's very conservative. And we all voted green like it was we call it green, blanch now, so you know, like, I it was, it was pretty incredible, leading up to the election. And really scary bit, too, because you're just like, are we going to do this again? Guys, are we gonna vote for them? Are we doing this again? Are we going to we're going to we're going to do this again. And no, we didn't here in Queensland, thankfully. But still, like, These things take time. There's Yeah, like still so many people without homes. I couldn't access money that Centrelink owed us like a lot of money. And Centrelink is like our social services. And yeah, like I was kind of had my I Daniel Blake moment where I was in Centrelink, crying to this lovely woman saying, like, you owe me money. Like, I need it. Now. I've lost my home. I've lost everything, like, what do I do? And she was like, man, sorry. There's nothing we can do. And I'm like, Look, I know, I'll be fine. But like, what if I'm not? What if I'm, what if I wasn't? Do you just do you just say to somebody who doesn't have anything fancy, like, you know, all of those kinds of things that you just think, if I'm having these problems, if it's so hard for me, like, I dread to think about how difficult these systems are that we currently have in place for everybody else. Yeah. And again, housing crisis, you know, like, who can afford to buy a house here? Like, it's insane? Like, it's just it is. And now who can afford to buy a house that doesn't float? You know, so it's the, it's the knock on effects of these things that I didn't ever consider. And, yeah, like, leasing everything you own is horrible. But there's an example of systemic change that needs to happen right across the board, right? It's not about just getting people out of the floodplains. And designing a city that's going to cope with the future. But even at some point, Brisbane will become too hot to live and people will have to migrate away anyway. So how's that going to be managed? Like the fact that I think that's where my despair sits? It's, those conversations just don't even seem to be happening yet. And the urgency is rising, every single day. No, you're so right. And going back to what Sam was saying, I was frantically writing notes at the beginning there. But you know what you were saying Sam as well with? Like, you have these conversations with people and people are in denial, like, and I understand that. Like, there's, there's a part of like, you know, as a professional procrastinator, I do understand that putting things off but like, especially when it's so massive that you can't, you can't you can't get your head around it. But I thought it was interesting when you said like, there's denial. But you know, there's people that actively profiteer off it. So, you know, that's like another level of denial like, and that's a big thing here, too. You know, like, we're a country that's run on fossil fuels. Like I have the same issues with my own family and having these conversations I grew up living in mining communities, like, there's that cognitive dissonance there that and you just kind of feel like saying, you know, it's okay to say that this has happened in you guys. Like it's fine. It's not going to, you're not going to deny what you are or who you are or what your job or profession or your sense of identity is, if you acknowledge this, what we need to do is acknowledge it and be pragmatic about what we can do together to move forward rather than just you know, no, no, no, no, no, no It's not happening because it's too hard. Or it just, I find that that conversation. For me personally, having these conversations with people, puts them in a position of possibly unravelling who they are as a person, and who they, who they've spent their life, buildings and identity. And that's been, that's been a parent. Like, I think that struck me about this conversation was her son doing a presentation today on on Bangladesh and future water shortages. And, and I was just thinking, like, when does that conversation between son and dad happen? And then, then then that how do you how I can't even like I'm constantly on my kids case. But if they turned around and said, Well, you know, why are we living in Malaysia? And when we have to fly home to Canada to see people every year? It's like, Oh, we got a plan for that. But like, but we've got to plan for that. If we didn't. I just when your kids question what you're doing, that's the moment where I think where I hope that those conversations, and that unravelling has to happen. And better it better it happened that way where you have to, you can't walk away, you can't deny it, you can't shrug it off, you're living with this little person, you owe this little person, this little person is asking you really good questions that you need to think about. Yeah, and just are, are those conversate? I'm curious. You know, Andrea, and I had talked the last time we did it about this book called Don't even think about it. And one of the fascinating pieces in it is that he does all these interviews with people who survived Katrina, and Han. And he said, What was really interesting was everybody talks about community and coming together and working together. And but no one talked about climate change. Yeah, no one talked about why it happened. Or you talked about how wonderfully they dealt with it and came together. But they didn't talk about why are they talking about why in Queensland? The vote? No, oh, well, yeah. It's complicated. The Greens definitely are the Greens definitely are they definitely are. And, and that was a grassroots campaign like that has been going on for years and years. And it's actually like in terms of kind of like political sort of case studies in terms of like, how this is going to affect political change globally, I think is a really interesting example on on, especially in Brisbane, which is like such a, you know, conservative stone war. Surreal bastion for like, it's it's it's honestly, I'm still shocked. The greens are and labour. Yeah, no, I think I think like, but but still, again, Labor's socially progressive, but I don't think they're doing anywhere near enough as they could or should for, you know, for reducing emissions and transferring from fossil fuels into renewables. What do you what do you think Andrea do? Like? I don't think I don't think any of the government's even remotely close to making the steps that they need to be taking. I mean, we're seeing it in some of the, like, Scandinavian Scandinavian countries, China is doing more than practically any country, you know, but that that sense of urgency, like the adaptation that needs to happen, and the timescale that we're talking about, like if people are going through floods in Brisbane now, you know, we I was there during the 2010 flood, I think it was 2011. Yeah. Was it to that? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. We left just before the end of December. And that was a 100 year event. And there's been three of those years in the last decade. Right. And so what we've got to start to sort of come to terms with what's coming, you know, and so let's, let's, let's move on, and let's talk about the rest. So last week, I mentioned the six tipping points that we are very close to reaching and I'm going to share some articles when I'm not talking here, just as background so the first is the Greenland ice sheet collapse and we've seen massive melt of that this in September. Western Antarctic ice collapse, which is the weights for the doomsday glacier, collapse of ocean circulation in the polar region of the North Atlantic. So a mock coral reef die off In low latitudes, sudden thawing of permafrost in the northern regions, and abrupt sea ice loss in the Barents Sea. So these are the six tipping points. The Doomsday glacier is expected to go within the next few years. There's a talk about some aerosol experiment where they're going to put it over the north over the Arctic and Antarctica, which will refreeze the ice, but it's no one knows, you know, what are the consequences of that going to be? But you know, the solution is, I don't know. But those sorts of solutions, we're going to need them right. 2020 2022 is the year the escalation really took off. And it started for me back in February, you know. So what we do now when when we do stuff now is what matters. But we have to understand, we're now moving into a new era for the climate stability is no longer on the cards, and humanity prospers when we have stability. So what can we be paying attention to? Right, so in our own backyards, so worsening weather we've seen in Japan this week, as well as Puerto Rico, and that that hurricane in Puerto Rico was only a category one. But it hung around longer, and it's obviously still doing its damage. Heat waves? What's What's the hardest temperature you've ever had in Brisbane? Ah, it's actually been quite mild since we've been back because it's been the El Nino years. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's been, but I've got God before I left. Oh, just disgusting. Like, really felt like I. And it's humid here, too. So yeah, the heat is very concerning, like, very concerning, very concerning. So I grew up more south. And you know, Australia hit its first 50 degree temperature in this last 12 months, right. So once the country hits 50, you're starting to go into the, the wet bulb temperatures, which means not everyone knows what this means. But basically, once you go into the wet bulb temperature range, and that's going to be part of the weather predictions. At some point, all of the media will start putting wet bulb temperatures up. But basically, you no longer sweat, and it cooks your internal organs. So even a very, very healthy person in the shade with plenty of water to drink will die. Right and around. In I think it was in August or July, they they passed the wet bulb temperature mark. And so that's going to become something that we're going to hear about more. We're going to hit 1.5. This this decade. And it's going to we're going to like taste it before it becomes permanently embedded. We're at 1.2. Now and this is what we're dealing with. So it's gonna get worse. What Yeah, I But basically, if you're in a country or a place Canada hit 50 and 2021. Two, yeah, right. So that's, that's not a good sign. So once you because the temperature is only going to go up. So if it's hitting 50, that the number of days it will be at 50 will be more. But then once you hit 50, then it's sunny to move up towards 60, which is obviously completely unlivable temperatures. So that's the sort of direction we're going with temperature, flooding, obviously, you know, we're in a London New Year, we're going into the third London New Year, which means you're probably all expecting more floods. Yeah. Where it's almost a bit of a relief. Now we know for at least for the next 12 months what to expect. But when it when it goes back to El Nino, then then a whole other a bunch of other factors will be coming in, including the higher temperatures. So flooding is really important. I think it's criminal, absolutely criminal that any house has been allowed to be built in a floodplain. And it's not just in the developed world. It's also in developing worlds like we saw in Durban and South Africa. People are living in shanty towns on the bottom of the bottom of the rivers, and they just got washed away when that big rain bomb hit. But, you know, obviously in Pakistan, the deniers tried to make it out that the people who were being washed away in the homes that were washed away were because they were illegally built. But then we saw 150 year old hotel go down like matchsticks right and that was not in our floodplain. Right? So that whole argument, but we need to be looking at floodplains but also expanding the size of the floodplains because that's what's gonna happen, right? So recently, we've just bought this house and again, we had to move six times this year, six times. So we were evacuated. And we moved underneath my mums and dads after like straightaway, and then after that, we were able to house it for a friend, which was so wonderful for three months. And then we have set for another friend for a month. And then we rented while we were trying to buy for for six weeks, so we've moved six times. But again, part of that is just the housing insecurity. So, again, we've got insane housing markets, complete and utter unaffordability. Like, I do not know how just yet, it just boggles my mind. Like I think I think I read somewhere that the average house price in Australia was $1 million. And that's average over like, like that is in sane like that. When did you ever think in your life like that? You would live in a million dollar property. Do you know what I'm like? It's just crazy. And that's just what you need to have to buy a house now. And obviously, I know, like, I know that there's lower ends, it's like, I get it, I get it. But also it goes back to those things that you were saying before that like, no, like, this is where my kids go to school. This is where they're going to kindy This is our community. You know, like, it's just unconscionable that like people have bought and lived in houses that have been allowed to build since. And again, 1974 was another massive flood year that we had. And actually, my parents were newly married at the time. And they lost everything in 1974, as well. Ironically, in Oxley, where we're living now, so same postcode, and they lost everything, little caravan. And, you know, that was 50 years ago, right? There's definitely houses that have been built on floodplains in 50 years, definitely, like, just that kind of stuff. Like, and again, you can't you can't wipe out the clock, and you can't change that. But we did like, like you said, once in 100 years, no, no, no, no, it's been three times in 50. Like, three times. In 10, we're TWICE in 10. Yeah, yeah. So it's just crazy. So yeah, but even though it's sort of mindset of buying a home, because it because Queensland's in the tropics, it's close to the equator. So it is going to be sent more severely impacted by what's going on with the environment. So like, even even, like, Oh, my husband would like us to buy something and have some sort of security, but I, I, to this day, don't know where to buy. And yeah, anywhere on Earth. Yeah, you know, and even that sense of ownership, you know, when you look at the migration of the future, it's migrating once, but be prepared to be migrating more than once. So this connection that we have to the, you know, the big dream or the American dream, like, to me, that's an outdated sort of concept overrated. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, it has to change and, you know, Jason and I similar case, I mean, we lived in Vancouver for two years and talk about a crazy housing market. And yes, and our first home that we've ever owned, because we've always lived overseas and we you know, crash at our parents house when we get home even though we're fully functioning adults. Is was a million dollar townhouse. 1600 square feet, built in the 1970s. up a mountain, a 45 minute drive away from the city, like, and I remember just signing this mortgage, panic. Well, it's not ours. But it was like I had a panic here. I thought, No, this is not the million dollar house in my dream it has 18 rooms and here's like, what is this? How you know, the this there were lots on our street with tear downs that were a million dollars and it's the same idea of like, you know, we sold we went back overseas again. And and now it's our dream house is somewhere with farmland. Yeah, and we're not farmers managed to grow a couple cucumbers. But yeah, but But what our dreams are have changed dramatically. And our dream home is no longer a dream home. It's where can we put our kids where they will be able to grow food? Where can we be near a body of freshwater where it can be be away from coast lands? Where are we far enough away from A city that if someone wants to come and take what we have, we're, you know, we're somebody has to look real hard through a beaver colony to find us. Like, this is where we're at right now. People we know are too. Yeah. And that's why we have to work it out. We got to nice here. And we're going to talk about the where in a minute. But yeah, the safety right. And that's why we have to approach it from a community perspective, rather than a each for their own because each for their own, you know, I was talking about the billionaire bunkers and how they're, how they're going about that. And basically, they will fail if they go with that approach. But if they go with a community approach, and everyone comes together, they then we have a chance of succeeding. But um, so we've obviously got flooding. The other thing is rain bombs. So we saw it in Durban, this year, this incredible amount of rain just fell in one spot, and a whole bunch of people were killed in massive destruction. And these are important because basically, what's happening is, this rain is sort of come usually gets picked up and moved across the world and land somewhere where it should land to grow food. And now it's not landing where it should land. So the next point is drought, which obviously, we're, we're facing, and it's gonna get worse and worse and worse farmers, you know, massive crop loss this year, but next year, they're not even going to plant their crops, because it's not going to grow. So then by the third year, you know, we could be really looking at a global famine. And we need to be thinking about that, and moving our farms into into places, you know that right now they're under ice, but soon that that's where we'll be able to grow food, wildfires, there. Obviously, it's obviously a massive issue for many, many parts of the world. Now, even more now, growing up in Australia, we all grew up with it, that I live through, but you also have the impact of the haze of smoke. And there's a lot of people living in that. Do you want to live in that you want your children breathing that? You know, I saw it in Singapore with the fires and Indonesian It was absolutely disgusting. Oh, God, I can't, I couldn't stand it. And of course, the sea level rise, you know, so if you're living near the ocean, you know, just just the Greenland ice sheet collapse. And the doomsday glacier, just those two things together, will increase sea level rise by 10 feet. So go and stand at the beach, and you get a get a stick and work out what 10 feet looks like. And, you know, here it is, I'm just sharing the climate map. And you can go and have a little look around the world and see what's going on and where it's going on and which beaches are going to be gone. You might be surprised. So sea level rise. Yeah, sea level rise is a big one. I think Queensland is okay for that. Right? You guys are out? Well, this is actually what I meant to say before with regard to like buying that like So now whenever you buy a property in Brisbane, and I remember people saying to me, like when we were looking in there like, Oh, check the flood maps, don't you? Yes, yes, I do. Check the flood maps, thank you. Like, I've lost everything to a flood. Of course, I'm going to check the footpaths like, but it's now this second nature. Here. When people buy check the flood maps to check the flood maps. And we've got so in our flood maps, we've got like, three levels, and they're kind of different. And you can kind of I'll send you a link to them, you can kind of play around and see. And they've got like the different levels of sort of extreme flooding. And yeah, it's just second nature now. And it's terrifying. Like, it's really scary. The sea level ones aren't so bad. But the flooding ones are like, really. And that's the thing you got to work out for you. Right. You know, what's relevant to you. And I think that's important. The other thing is glacial mountain. Obviously, we saw the devastation in Pakistan. And it's still devastating. And, like, it's actually like when I first saw that footage, I honestly had never seen anything more horrific. And I'm sure for UK that that was really hard for you to watch. But there's another 33 Glacial Lakes at risk of collapsing. Right. So it's not like, you know, you're going to be able to rebuild. I mean, you know, they're going to have to look at the entire landmass and work out where can they rebuild within the context of potentially more, more of this catastrophic fall waterfall, but it's not just Pakistan, of course, the Himalayas were reportedly had passed a tipping point years ago. So everyone down the track of that for drinking water, agricultural water is at risk. And then of course, in the Swiss Alps. They're melting fast too. And if they go, that will impact millions of people across Europe. So you know, we're really did some big stuff, you know, and then of course, you know, to this ocean, ocean life loss, you know, just take one piece of the, of the ecosystem out and, you know, we see a collapse, that wider ecosystem die offs as well. And, you know, with the temperatures expected to go up next year with El Nino, you know, we probably going to see more of the coral reefs which have rebounded this year, but we'll probably see see them potentially sort of heading towards the end of their life? And what's, what's that gonna look like? food scarcity is a thing. We've got to move like the future breadbasket of the world, Canada, Russia, Russia and Greenland, you know, and most of Greenland is still under under ice. So, you know, we need to be moving our farming and our agriculture into areas where it can, it can grow. You know, but then, you know, everyone says, Go north, and today's saying go north, and everything I'm reading is saying, going north, but the methane Dragon is being released, you know, and what does that mean? What does it really mean? You know, because that's going to accelerate global warming and push more tipping points. Diseases are on the moon, malaria, and dengue are moving up north, they haven't been there before. pandemics, you know, all these animals are going to be crossing each other's paths that have never crossed before. So there's going to be new sort of combinations of viruses and bacterias. We're looking at an insect apocalypse, we're looking at all pollinators dying. But then, you know, then this is where it gets really confusing for me. So the a mock, which is the Atlantic meridional, I never did say current. So think of the movie day after tomorrow. So the a mock stops, it's the best disaster movie of them all the stops, that sets up this massive freeze across Europe and the northern hemisphere, right. And apparently, when, when the marks goes, it's not going to be as extreme as the movie, but it's going to send the northern hemisphere into an ice age. Now, if it does that, that means we'll have lots of ice on the ground to reflect the sunblock. So maybe that that will be that will be the thing that shifts everything around the other way. And then these other parts of the world will be safe, that currently aren't safe. So that's why it's really confusing, because there's so many different possibilities in the mix. And any, any anything that you're paying attention to it. There's so much uncertainty, I think that what I try to pay attention to is the fact that I love science. So I'm going back to do Masters in Science, but I love the noble goal of focusing, curiously focusing on evidence without Lee, you know, you're sure you can have a hypothesis, but your job is actually to disprove your hypothesis. Yeah. And if you happen to prove it true along the way, fabulous, right? Yeah. And I think, which has instead of become something to really respect, when it comes to climate science, has been this little opening that people have tried to kind of widen into disbelief. Okay, well, but they're not certain. They say might the range is 100 years, they won't equivocally say, you know, they can't predict on October 4 2029, this is going to happen. And so everybody likes to kind of take that as the Get Out of Jail Free card and say, Yeah, well, you know, they're not sure. But no scientist is at night to say, No. Or being a scientist. Yeah. And I think this like, comes down to again, like a communication thing, too. I mean, we saw it in COVID. Like, you know, science comps came to the fore and it was able to shine and, you know, you're right, like, how do you that doesn't that doesn't sell headlines that doesn't get people interested saying like, maybe there's going to be we don't we don't know, you know, like, maybe we can't say with any certainty because yeah, because science, that's science. But, and I think this is really interesting from like a comms point of view, which is like I work in communications, and I'm really interested in science community. All through this dude. Oh, great. Perfect. Yeah. Well, like I was I was thinking like, how do you this is a special communicate like this is a special. This is another really interesting way of like, how do we communicate this to people and get like, so this George Monbiot, obviously, but like, I don't know, like, who else is doing this? Well, and I feel like we need to, we need to kind of maybe look at what happened with like, the COVID comms and kind of go like, how do we get people engaged and wanting to listen? Because I feel like if I know it's difficult to kind of it is doom and gloom. It's horrendous. And, you know, I do really respect the Guardian sort of stance when They changed the language and said, No, no, no, we're calling it a crisis now because this different crisis. But I think I sent you the link to that journal podcast Andrea ages ago, and it was like, it was a really interesting look into, like, how do we How does? How is the media responsible for this? And what's the media's role in shifting behaviours? Or shifting perspectives? And how can the media get people more engaged? And they were talking about in think they use a case of Vanuatu, and you know, like, there's those South Pacific countries which, like, are going to be obsolete, right, like they're going to be underwater. But you know, there's some amazing developments there happening, like, they've kind of they've developed like a new form of like a new strand of Tarot route. And, you know, they've, they're all these really interesting things happening, where they kind of like, ya know, like, they've accepted this reality and the pragmatism that's being employed there. And again, obviously, much easier to do tiny nation, blah, blah, blah, like, you can't pick up the same model and shifted around. But I wonder if there's like another way of, I don't know, like, engaging people in this does that. It's some it's something I spent a long time, a lot of time thinking about, how can I communicate this in a way that people want to hear, but it's actually a separate topic that I want to do as a live stream. So wait, you guys are going to come back in. And I want to get some media in that conversation as well, when we talk about it, because it's a really big thing. But at the same time, it's also the motivation to listen to this information is about our children's future. Yeah. And I'm trying to I struggle with how can that not be enough. But anyway, some other considerations that we should all be sort of starting to really think about is your insurance premiums on your property, if you're, if you're lucky enough to live in a wealthy country, or one day, you may just find out that you can no longer be insured. So you know, getting out of those properties now, before it's too late, if you can, for you know, a lot of people are already going through this, as Kate was saying, Are you buying or renovating a property? Is it worth it? Will you be able to sell it you know how much time until you know, your property is on the front line. Recently, the Commonwealth Bank of Australia sticking with Australia announcing it's got $31 billion worth of mortgages that are exposed to extreme weather risks. So obviously, the banks are going to start changing how they do things, and they're not going to help us right, they're going to help themselves, the cost of land in safer countries is already being bought. And it's not just for the billionaire bankers, hedge fund managers and investors are out buying it up in, you know, as much as they can, so that the Australian wine industry moved to Tasmania a decade ago. Because because they could see what was coming. So it's gonna get harder and more expensive to move. So we need to be thinking about that. And that's really where the community comes in. Moving to cities that take it seriously is one of the recommendations was, I think it's earth.org. And, you know, basically, if the, if the city is investing in its infrastructure to be working at the top level, that's a really good sign. So in New York City, when they got flooded last year, and people were dying, in some ways, they're not ready. In the UK, they're going through a drought, they haven't invested in their water infrastructure for 30 years. So you know, that's, that's a good sign. But I think the most important thing is if you can think within, stuck, we got to stop thinking about ourselves. And think about what does this look like for our children? And what can we do now to make sure that's not as bad as it potentially could be? So? Yeah, so just some other things like jumping within anything. So earth.org, three things to consider if you need to migrate. Geographically advantage, which we'll talk about the country is putting in the most effort to mitigate and also the countries that are most likely to adapt. So Japan is a country that is going to get hammered by weather, but it will adapt for that weather. So it's, it's a country you can still live in, even though it might be quite horrendous, but no country can escape sea rise, so So what to consider cooler areas of the world. So we're going to increase temperatures by between five and six degrees Fahrenheit, the optimal temperature is 10 to 15 degrees Celsius, for humans to have an abundant lifestyle. So that just sort of something in your mind. So away from the oceans, obviously, you've got to get far from the ocean and especially with the Rose, Rose of the ocean erosion and shrunken coastlines are already happening and we'll get worse. Flooding is already commonplace, and tropical storms and hurricanes are expected to get a lot worse. We're going to lose entire towns and cities right And then I say Putin's nukes. Yes, that's another risk. You need to move where there's fresh fresh water X access to an elevated area. That's why your home in Canada sounds good, Sam, we need to move away from the equator. And I'm living near the equator. So you Sam, you know, when I think of Singapore, you know, and Singapore will adapt for as long as it can. But you know, you can't get the oceans back, right? Don't go to a small island, they're going to be submerged. Don't go to arid or desert regions unless the precipitation changes, and rain will fall on those areas. And I'll tell you about one of them. And don't move near rain, rain forests or woodlands, because you'll be in increasing fire danger. So that's just some of the things to be thinking about. So where do we move? what's your what's your feeling of where we move? I've got a whole list of places I've uncovered. It's, I've always said and as a joke, haha, that I married an Englishman to say that my kids would be climate refugees. And now I'm like, no, no, no joke. deadly serious, deadly serious. We also got married in the year of Brexit. And I was like, hoping for European passports, my children also not happening. Yes. But that is the crime of Brexit. To me, it's like it's taken away our children's? Absolutely, absolutely. Like taking away sovereignty. Totally. Me too. Absolutely. I, I don't know, Andrea, I do not know. I mean, yeah, like, for me, it's countries that are taking this seriously. And again, for our own personal experience, like we are living on the top of a hill. So if we flood, we've got bigger issues. Like, we are all screwed, I'm like, yeah, we've got a biblical Ark situation on our hands. However, we are near woodland, and we had to make that choice. Otherwise, I don't know, like, we, we could move to another suburb, but like, our life is in here. So it's Yeah, where do we weigh all those things up? I'm totally with you on that. I don't know. But, and I've, I'm in we are all here present incredibly privileged to make these choices as well, like, like, so lucky that we have these options, and so lucky. And yeah, if it, you know, if the flooding gets too much, and even even living in the neighbourhood, you know, like, I'm expecting it to happen again soon. And it's just incredibly stressful for the entire community. And like, I've just set myself up for the expectation that this is just life here now, like this is this is a norm for our kids that this is just going to be it and I don't, I, I don't want this for my kids. Like I don't, I don't want them to go through this all the time. And if there's a way that I can avoid that, I'll do it. But there's some guilt in that as well. Like, I'm really aware of that. And I feel terrible about that. And I'm really aware of how this sounds. And I really, really want to stress that I am so aware of this. And it's not, I can just kind of pick up and take my you know, like, just screw everybody else by but like, there has been some strategic, you know, we are making strategic plans, as you were saying, Sam, as well, like, you know, we're making these plans to, you know, save money so that we can do that we can move our lives around, I'm going back to study so that I can have a degree that's going to allow me to us to be more mobile as a family, like all of those kinds of forward thinking decisions that climate and our ease of mobility, like definitely takes into consideration there. But I'm just so sad by what did we do? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, you can't do that. Yeah. And I think it's really important to point out the privilege, because those of us who are also part of the problem, that we're part of the problem that has been created, right, so and that's why if we if we claim our privilege, you know, I can move my boys to four countries, based on the passports that they've got, right. And the majority of people I know, can't move anywhere, right. So we've got to be part of coming together and working out the solution for the migration, so that people can be moved safely and with dignity. And rather than being we just all accept being torn apart and end up in civil wars, and, you know, just I can't bear that as a future for our children. I don't want to I don't want my boys living in that future. I'd rather those get washed away. Right. So, yeah, what Sam? Yeah, um, I have grandiose plans for Canada. Canada doesn't know about them yet. But, you know, we are a nation of immigrants. We're 30 million people and 8 million of us are refugees. And out of that 30 million, like, let's talk first nations numbers 30 million of the 29 point 5 million of them are immigrants from somewhere. Yeah. And we have always created a nation by welcoming as many people as we can from as many places and honest to God, you know, our work with you WC, Thailand, which is all about deliberate diversity and building peace. I, my hope is that candidate becomes that place that that we go back to help steer a national dialogue around, you know, it's a jump to say nation, Lis states and you know, whatever. And I know that I'm here for Tim not I'm here for it. Yeah. I love I love my Canadian flag on my backpack and very proud. Yeah, but But if somebody told me tomorrow, okay, you know, the border comes down. The world is in peril. We have the resources, we've got the largest freshwater lakes in the world. And if we don't do this, people are gonna die. I be like, how do I help? Yeah. And my hope is that we keep raising generations of children that see it that way. So that we don't build a wall like our neighbours to the south. And instead, we roll out the welcome carpet and figure out like, I mean, come on Canada is a freaking huge country. 9.9 million square kilometres, okay. And like, 90% of our population lives within like 10 miles of the US border or something insane. Like we're all at that border. And then there's like, the polar bears and Churchill, like, there's a lot of country there. That's, that's not being used. So you that hasn't been able to write so nobody's because Canadians don't want nobody wants to live in Winnipeg, I'm sorry, Winnipeg. People who live in Winnipeg. Nobody dreams of living in Winnipeg, right, we call it winter pick. It won't be winter peg anymore. But, you know, like, there's just so much land and opportunity, and for the most part peaceable and accepting an AI, I really think Canada can be part of a global solution. And our hope is to go home and try to drive that narrative that says we will be well, I did hear that Alaska, Alaska, Alaska is gonna have the same temperature as Florida, by 2047. So if you skated the winter, it's not going to hang around for long. So we need to wrap up, because I know that we've all got different things to do. But I want to go through, I've been collecting the places where we can live and thinking about them from multiple angles, but this is this is a collection from multiple publications and, and science and stuff. So earth.org are saying New Zealand, Iceland, UK, Australia and Ireland. So when Australia's mentioned it surprises me. Yep. But it's mainly Tasmania, when it gets mentioned, so don't get too excited. But the good thing, the good. The good thing about all of these is they've all got smaller populations, except for the UK. They all have large agricultural land, which is obviously critical, direct us access to the sea for shipping, and they're isolated, which means there'll be less embroiled in economic and social instability. And the other key thing is, of course, they're all energy independent. So on other less Denmark, Sweden, Sweden, Norway in the UK, so then the UK gets a couple. But you know, if a mug goes, it's going to be freezing. In the US. It's Boston, the great salt lakes, Denver, Colorado, because that's up. Upstate New York and Pacific North northwest like Portland, Portland, and Seattle are all looking good, even though we've seen extreme temperatures go through them. I talked about Japan earlier, northern Thailand. So up in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai, it's the only place that I've seen mentioned in Asia, that is near the equator especially, which is potentially livable Canada, Greenland superior and Russia. No than central European countries like Latvia and Estonia. Yeah, Serbia is going to be massive. So is Russia. In fact, is one article the Russia in the mix piece? Really important one? Iceland, Nordic nations? Just about? Yeah, Russia's Yeah. And then down south, it's Patagonia, Australia, as I said, but mainly Tasmania and New Zealand. However, the doomsday glacier is going to come up going to slide into the sea, and it's predicted to set off a tsunami. Where does that what impact will that have? So that needs to be thought about. I've also seen a map of 2100, where the precipitation changes around the world will be so vast, that there's a desert area north of Perth at the moment that will be green. And finally, in Antarctica, there will be 17,000 square kilometres of new ice free land, where they're expecting humans to all also migrate. So there's another sort of topic, it's called north of the 4045 degree in parallel. And this is from Michigan, in the US to France, Croatia, Mongolia, and Xinjiang in China. And this is seen as a set basically, from there up, it seemed as the 21st century Boomtown area. Like I said, Alaska is going to be like Florida by 2047. And they're looking at this as there'll be a hub of connected Arctic cities. So, you know, if you're down south, do you move down south where there'll be a smaller population? Or do you move up north? where there'll be a larger population? And when you think of your children, like what's your tune in money? Yeah, or more or more instability, you know, so it's kind of interesting, you know, finally, the most vulnerable, Africa, Middle East, South America, the tropics, anywhere near the equator, and developing nations. So if you think of a country like Haiti, that's, that's pretty much screwed. So I've been doing that research for years and years and years, I still don't have a definitive answer. But yeah, you're lucky to be from Canada were lucky to have access to UK passports. But we do need to give people the freedom to move because to build these new cities, we're going to need people to be building them and we have to take care of the people who didn't create this. We have to and they need to be part of it. So yeah. What else? You're welcome to come live on my beaver colony. Oh, yes. Good hats good hats. Good hats at the compound people trying to make a difference in the world. I love it. Oh, my God a bunker. out a bunker. No, no, no, no, no. No bunker. Yeah, please. People are welcome. Yeah, I can imagine. It's like we've got a decision to make. You know. We're heading towards a dystopia that Mad Max future. And you just saw the far right ascendancy in Italy. You know, Bassano hopefully won't be elected soon. But he's going to create deny said beaver colony lol. I'm with him. When you say that I was like, noble animal and climate hero. Yeah. So any nationalism, any political rhetoric, which is divisive, any, anything that's sort of shutting down, you know, or blaming one small group of people or a minority, you know, any, any leadership like that, like we can no longer afford to vote in people who aren't paying attention to what we need to do. And we need to, yeah, I'm with you tonight. And we have to come together. And we have to make this future possible. We can't let it happen the way because it's going in the wrong direction, we have to say this is what we want. And this is how we want it to look. Otherwise, what we're doing is setting our set children up for absolute horror. You know, whether it's by weather, or just social instability, so and I'm calling on all the parents of the world, it looks like Kate might have frozen out and I'm calling on all the parents of the world to step up and do this. Oh, looks like we lost cake. So there you go. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's the conversation we had before we have to talk about it, people have to talk about it. Everyone has to talk about it. Because the data says people don't talk about it because their fear of being excluded and fear of not belonging, which is hardwired into this cro-magnon brain of we need to have a tribe to survive, but this is the opposite. We need to talk about it to survive. I think that's all So the advantage if you're not talking about it, and you're planning for something, so you can go and buy the land before, before the land gets too expensive. You know, I think there's a self protection aspect in that mix, too. And I understand it. I really do I understand it, but but that's the thinking that got us into this problem in the first place. You know, taking care of ourselves, we, we've got to think about community, how do we take care of our community? How to, you know, how do we feed everyone? You know, if we're going through famine, how do we make sure that there's food growing in communal gardens all over the countries or cities that we're living in? You know, how do we get ready? And yeah, can't take care of anyone else if you haven't taken care of yourself to? That's right. There's that argument, right? Like, if you've got yourself sorted, then you can focus all your energy on helping other people. If you're focusing on how you're going to feed your family, then that also contributes to this eye for an eye. You know, I'll come after you for your garden or your whatever. So, yeah, no, no, that's fine. All right. Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening in. I hope it's useful. But the most, the key question is really start paying attention to what's going on in the environment as far as impacts you and your family and your community. It's not like before it's accelerating, it's getting worse. It's getting more extreme. We need to bring a cake back in now to say goodbye. It's getting more extreme. You know, we need to take it seriously. Let's do it. And let's come together. You have to make the noise. I said, I'm so glad I came back for this. Sorry. Take issues. That's like that. Thanks so much, Kate. I really appreciate you coming and sharing and best of luck out like I hope, I hope you find your home and you guys can be happy for a few years. Without any more trauma. Yeah, thank you so much. No, it's definitely feeling much more settled. But thank you, and thank you for having me. And it was lovely to meet you. Same. You too. All right, I'm gonna end the broadcast. So see you later. Got a few weeks. All right. See you. Bye bye. Bye.