Uncommon Courage

The Know Show – theme, engineering climate change

June 10, 2022 Arishta Khanna, Andrea T Edwards, Joe Augustin, Steve Johnson Episode 67
Uncommon Courage
The Know Show – theme, engineering climate change
Show Notes Transcript

Welcome to the Know Show, as we head into our second last show of the season. Join Andrea T Edwards and Joe Augustin (Tim Wade is still on holiday) with Arishta Khanna joining us this week as co-host! Every show, we review the news that’s been capturing attention around the world and are thrilled to have Steve Johnson, a geotechnical engineer, with more than 25 years of civil engineering experience, across five continents, joining us this week. 

The theme – engineering climate change - will look into what is changing in our environment and how rapidly, from an engineers’ point of view. The discussion will focus on something we are hearing more and more today, the fact that one in a 100 year events, or even one in a 500 year events, seem to be hitting us every few years now. So why are these measures changing so rapidly, and what does it mean in real terms? How does this impact how our built environment is constructed, when extreme weather events make existing design codes and engineering practices outdated in the face of rapid environmental change? 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters to all of us. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the climate crisis, Covid 19, topical moments in the world, global politics, business, social issues and passion/humor/history. Join us. 

#TheKnowShow #UncommonCourage

 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Unknown:

Welcome to the no show. My name is Andrew redwoods. And my name is Joe Augustine and sitting in for Tim Wade is a rich, higher rich that welcome to the show. Thank you. And yeah, I'm sitting in with Tim Wade, the big. You got lots of weeks. Sorry. Have you got lots of weeks? Yeah. You can imagine, arranged that just before you came on to the feed as well, me and Andrea, were just talking. And we said, like, we know, we know Arista really well, but we don't know what she does. What what does she tell other people she does when she says you know what she does? So let's do that. First, tell us what do you do? With a little bit that you do know, currently, I'm in, you're doing green mentioned strategies for brands and leaders. And I do brand identification events, some of which you would have seen here and there, which I've started posting as events have just started opening up. But that's connecting brands to their target audience. In the social sector, primarily. Right? Now, the no show is a show that is one where we hopefully make you a slightly more interesting person. And I always like to joke or a more irritating person. And we like to have very many different points of view. So we go far and wide. Sometimes we don't go as wide. But we've left this little gem I think by the side for a long time. He's a longtime supporter, and he slept with at least one person on this show. So I'd like to welcome to the show. Steve Johnson, who is Andrea's other half and your area of expertise, I'm told is your civil engineer with a geotechnical background? Is that about Correct? That's about correct, Joe, and thanks for such a stunning intro. I've never been introduced like that. I'm glad you've got it out there pretty quick that I had actually slept with is actually my wife. And I'm glad our secret didn't get out yet. After a night in Singapore stays on tour. Right? Well, welcome to the show, Steve. And for everybody else, maybe a little bit of an introduction to what what what your, your technical background is? Sure. So um, so I kind of bounced around a fair bit from school, I didn't do particularly well. And I guess I found, I guess I kind of saw the light relatively sort of late in life, sort of like mid 20s, took myself off to university did engineering, geology and Geotechnics. And then I studied to become a geotechnical engineer. The bizarre thing was after five or six years of working, I was so certain this was it. And then when I finally graduated, and got a job with the top consultancy in the UK, after a year, I just couldn't stand it. So I actually practiced for about a year and a half after that. And then I moved over into the sales and marketing but which is great, because it kind of gets me across all the different projects. So watching that industry change. And having been very fortunate to do that in, you know, several continents around the world. Yeah, it's been really interesting, right. So today's show is going to take us again, all over the place as we usually do we start with the news that's been catching our attention. And then later on in the show, we'll get to Steve your area of expertise and your particular perspective on the world as well. You know, and Chris Andrews been saying that you know, it's such a staunch supporter you know, of the of the show, you make up about 50% of the audience most times I think you've watched it every week, which is awesome as to why in the comment section with a few really interesting ones, you know. Okay, so let's get to the news and, and what's been catching our attention, Andrea, so with you. All right, let's get stuck in so that big news breaking this week, Kate Bush is number one in the charts. And of course, this is for her song running up the hill, which has appeared in Stranger Things So apparently, there's a whole new generation being exposed to the beauty of Kate Bush's music so you guys fans? Well, Kate Bush is I found her always to be you have to be in the right mood. She's not she's not the person who's put on at all times. Right? I think. I think in the middle of a stranger things episode is it's a perfect place for Kate because she is she is like a musical milestone, right? I mean, you hear her sound her voice she and Peter Gabriel. You know that That sound that error, right? Yeah, true. Nika. I'd agree with that, Joe, I can remember growing up. She had that incredible voice and you're right. You couldn't listen to her first thing in the morning. You know, it's not morning music. And then when she did you ended with Peter Gabriel. Fantastic talent. Full disclosure, I actually had to ask my kids what Stranger Things was. I knew this was going to be discussed. So I'm catching up slowly. Yeah, we haven't. We haven't watched it. One of the one of the tweets that went live this week, which I thought was, which caught the moment. Okay, so let me get this straight. The number one movie in the country is Top Gun. The number one song is Kate Bush running up the hill. And America is in a proxy war with Russia. So we're just like, fuck it. Let's give 1986 and other go then. I thought that was great perspective. Yeah, exactly. All I was gonna say was I took the boys to Gansu Top Gun or to one of the boys to guarantee Top Gun last Sunday, and the audience was packed with 50 Something white dudes who had dragged their kids on? And I think awesome was the only one that enjoyed it. At the end of it. There was this sorry, trail of people who so boring. being dragged to see this movie. So yeah, right. Not only that he's six all over again. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Interesting, I haven't actually been just to see it because we keep getting mixed reviews, you know, 8.9 ratings from some friends, you know, within the circle, and the boys are like, really? I mean, you think this can top the actual top gun? So we haven't actually managed to go but no spoilers. Yeah, well, I mean, hearing it rhymes with the first one. I mean, as what it should do is as a kind of a follow up, and more like, not so much that the highway to the danger zone, I've been hearing a bit more like the by way to the sort of slightly dangerous place. Last night, I didn't go and watch it with the boys because I don't know. I just wasn't interested. But last week, Philip has said, if you go and watch the original Top Gun, it's very homoerotic. Do you remember when she said that? Well, so we watched it. And she is absolutely correct. Oh, my God. She coming back. We'll go back and watch the original one. It's an apparently the new one isn't as bad as that. Is that right, Steve? No, there's not as many sort of tight, tight Whitey underpants shots and they're very tactile in the first one. I'm really glad Philip have brought that up, because I can actually not look at that movie ever the same? Again, I don't know, all I really should do is we should we should take the original one. And I should just strip out all the the official soundtracks and replace everything with RuPaul music and see what happens. I'm pretty sure it'd be great. That's an interesting idea. All right. So the Queen's Jubilee weekend was kicking off just as we did the no show last week. And of course, it was a massive weekend. And it looked like everyone in the UK had a wonderful time. And I think you know, there's a lot of people criticizing it. There's a lot of media coverage talking about the colonial heritage and what has happened in her reign. But, you know, it was a moment it was a weekend of a with a little bit of joy in the world and which I think the world needs. And of course, the big piece that broke at the beginning of the Jubilee was the queen having afternoon tea with Paddington Bear, which then led into we will rock you. And of course, I was delighted because the first band was Queen and Adam Lambert. So did you. Did you have an opportunity to watch the performance I found Diana Ross a bit strange. But otherwise, I thought it was a fantastic show. She goes have a chance to have a look on his debut looked interesting, because I wouldn't catch the bits on Twitter. But what follows is the barrage of comments below. It's really you know, I don't know whether it was a happy happy to stick with it. There's so much negativity as well. It's really shocking to be to be honest, like what do you think as well and also the the comparison between you know, when Kate young Hassan was doing all the antics that he does, and suddenly you have all of you know, the social media with snippets of him going away and guessing doing her and everything else and comparing what if Megan Markel and done the same and you thinking like, really like, Where does this even come in? And so yeah, interesting from what angle? You're right, that Megan Markel, Michael and Harry angle and just seeing that the media just immediately going back into that, criticizing them praising Kate, that that whole side of things. And you know, when you when you talk to a royalists, they've got no patience to listen to anything else. But yeah, just seeing that ugly side. Yeah, you know, The only thing I would add to this as the only as the only Brit on the call is never underestimate our ability to self destruct when we have something to demonstrate English batting collapse during the summer is always ascertain, just as any royal event, you know is guaranteed to split the country down the middle. I actually thought it was a really good I thought I gave a really good accountant so she can remember, Queen is adjusting to life without her lifelong part, you know, relatively recently, so all kudos to her for being able to step up I thought the same of Paddington where she posted marmalade sandwich, I have a handbag because the only the only bad thing about it is when I saw Duran Duran, Simon lip balm looks so old. And I used to emulate him and you still want to look like him so much. And now it's kind of like a reality. Shock. It's like, maybe not. But I thought it was good the way they kind of mix it up. I was surprised Adam Lambert but pleased that Adam Lambert made a performance being an American. And that got a lot of negative kind of attention. But I thought it was I thought it was a it was a nice. I thought it was celebrating a respectful and nice way, just my perception. The funny thing about Adam Lambert is that he's actually been touring with clean, he's actually been hired by the band to be the replacement singer for the band. On the tour. The guy who wasn't happy I think with this was particular when at least on the stage was Rod Stewart. I don't know what happened. I don't know how it happened. But it seemed as though he hadn't been to a rehearsal and found out very shortly before the song was coming on the air that he couldn't sing it. And why it was Sweet Caroline. My best guess according to somebody else was that, oh, they wanted to have something for the evident fans in the audience. The sing along to you know where they go, like so good. And like so good. So good. That's a kind of a soccer chair. But that was about it. He happened. So just to put some background to that. So I'm having embarrassed myself many, many times by singing that at various rugby functions. It's a it's a rugby anthem, almost. There's, there's nothing better 85,000 people on their feet singing network at the top? Well, if you've, if you've had a few pints, it sounds pretty good at the time. It's just when you play it back. It's like, oh, did I really do that? So I kind of get the end goal. But yeah, he delivered a shocker. On that one. The only thing about that particular performance was new diamond. I mean, that was that was a problem with it. Yeah, apparently it was. It was at the request of the Queen, so or the royal family and Diana Ross as well. So they had a little bit to do with it. Yeah. And when you talk about it from a rugby perspective, that, that kind of, yeah, that kind of speaks to it. Alright, moving on Thailand legalizes cannabis trade, but still bans recreational use. So I don't know if you guys realize, but in the last sort of 12 months, Thailand is really sort of jumped headlong into the whole medic medical marijuana space in if you come on a holiday to Phuket, you can get edibles that most of the restaurants, and there's little shops sort of popping up everywhere. So but the other thing is that people can grow cannabis at home, and also sell it back to the government. So they're really trying to help people sort of work out new ways of ending funding. But for those of us who live in Southeast Asia, we know that the drug laws and the seriousness of JARC was very extreme, you know, as an Australian, was a Balos. And somebody, another guy who were were killed in Thailand for drugs. So you know, it's been a serious place for a really long time. So this is a huge move in Asia. But it's also a very progressive move, because of course, the the research around medical marijuana is going off into the stratosphere at the moment. So, you know, Thailand setting itself up to be the leading contender in that fight for this region. So but they were also releasing, I think it was 4000 people in jails and the jails are really overrun, who've been charged with marijuana crime. So you know, so it's a pretty interesting announcement. Yeah, and although also, I mean, not not to forget that they are actually giving away those samplings of seedlings to citizens courage to boost it. It's yeah, I don't know where they draw the line and where the balance fits in. So you're right originally the government are allowing each Thai citizen can grow six cannabis plants each. They are allowed to keep the produce of one and they have to sell back the other five to the government. Good luck with that. Fascinating from from where this this, they would have done the research and study that this is a workable solution. It's not going to destroy the whatever. It's just bizarre why like in Australia you can grow for crops in your backyard for personal? Yeah, you do. That's been for a number of years, what's been my number of years, I don't know culturally where it comes from. So so the debate over here is not just the fact that it is theirs, and it's called the medicine, I mean, back home as well. I mean, we're in India in certain regions is the same. So you've got all these crops, which is can go this way or that way. But whether the use and what it really comes across as with the generations that are there, and what they actually going for, what is perceived perception is a huge thing and what they go in for visiting the country and having it I don't know whether whether they will be able to hold on to their draw balance, or it's going to completely okay, why oh, well, you know, I can just drop in my two cents worth on this. I don't think just as an example, and nightspot in Phuket smelling any differently today than it did five years ago. But that's before it goes like, Here, here's your million samplings and your seedlings and things have just gone. Find it. Buy it, it's one of those things where I think it's, you know, it was everywhere to start with, and it was kind of like, you know, I don't think there was a difficulty in finding or getting drugs. And that's true. You know, even surprisingly, in Singapore, where it is so much frowned upon people still still go for that. But I think what changes is now the clandestine activity that goes along with it. So I think it's a very interesting experiment. I'm not, I'm not automatically against it. And I know that to just say, it doesn't work. It's too much, there's too much happening from a medical perspective that that that suggests that there is a there is a there's quite a bit of benefit to it. I mean, the opioid crisis in the US, for instance, that's a big case for the fact that if you use if you use medicinal marijuana, you wouldn't be avoiding the situation that they have right now, which is a highly addicted audience that is doing things that, you know, it really shouldn't, it gets to the point where that those gets higher and higher and higher. Whereas the, I mean, the lifestyle may be addictive, but apparently marijuana itself isn't quite as, as as much of a drug to make you do the weird things, you know, it'd be, it'd be definitely an interesting experience. We'll see how that goes. So the culture, the culture of marijuana in Thailand has always been very, very strong. If you go way up north, and you can sort of see, you know, what's that place, we went to Steve up north, where we're at three rivers. The past where the all the drugs was to go to triangle, the Golden Triangle, right? So there's a long history. And the only reason that it stopped is because the Americans basically made it illegal all over the world, and force countries to comply. So and then the Asian countries went even more extreme than the American companies, but it's never gone, it's existed. It's just sort of more undercover. So I don't see that. I don't see it as a societal issue as far as allowing people to grow it then. And for many people who live hand to mouth and the day to day wage type people, especially in the last couple of years, who've lost everything. It's just a nice little way to earn some money so that they can create not just a medical marijuana industry, but also a hemp industry, which is a super crop when it comes to you know, the marijuana and bamboo are the two big crops that can really sequester carbon. So I don't know I see it as a great thing. I don't see it as an issue. As far as you know, drug use is going to get out of control because the five just just like Steve was saying that the five big you're gonna get back is that going to work? So I, I have a kind of a tacit agreement that the government goes in partnership with with with the audience and actually, you know, this isn't a new thing in terms of getting the government getting you to plant marijuana, right? The US was the first to do that. As far as I can remember. They went ahead and they said, you know, let's do this. Before it all turned out in terms of, I think most of the arguments that people have about about marijuana, they I mean, I understand where they come from, I see where they come from and all the tradition and all the history and all that but it all rings a little hollow for me that that alcohol is still you know, alcohol is readily available. I was I was at a at a birthday party last last weekend. And you know the guy Is the gains were so high, not all of them, but some of them were just so high and alcohol and so belligerent. It was, you know, is actually a threatening situation. And it's the kind of behavior that happens with alcohol and not so much with marijuana. I am, I am old. So I always find it really funny when Singaporeans say you're high when you're drunk, because Australians, you're high when you're when you're stoned. But I'm one of them. There's no question the War on Drugs has not worked. And, you know, making them illegal. You know, we saw it with alcohol, making drugs illegal. So, you know, Thailand decides that there's one drug that they have approved, and it doesn't mean they're gonna go soft on everything else. I think I think it's progress. It's time. You know, because the War on Drugs isn't working. There's just so many people in jail that don't need to be in jail that aren't criminals. And as soon as you put someone in jail, they're recruiting criminal for life, very few. Escape, that, you know, that's just basically what being jailed does to us. So one of the one of the top, one of the top guys I used to work with at Microsoft in the public sector, he said, a crime is is a career path. And once you get on the path, it's very difficult to get off the path and, you know, putting people in jail for smoking a joint. What are your saving? Really sorry, state? No, all I was gonna say was, I think it's a bold move from from the Thai government. And, you know, coming out of COVID, you know, but there's a lot of misunderstanding around cannabis and other Oh too much about it, I had a call with a guy in Australia who represented a company in the US that had four or five, growing licenses. So these guys were huge into weed. Apparently, they're building houses out of the waste from hemp now. So it goes so much beyond the sort of traditional sort of Shaggy, from Scooby Doo type character, you know, like banging on a huge carrot of a joint, you know, and so, you know, eaten his body weight at three o'clock in the morning, you know, because he's got the munchies, it's so much more than that, where I think it has the potential to become undone in Thailand is if someone does the basic maths, and they work out that the CBD content, which is the medical part of it is worth X amount, but the THC content, which is the bit that apparently gets your high is worth why. And I think as soon as that that math is kind of done, that could be where the government becomes undone. But hopefully not. Hopefully, it carries on moving. And you know, I mean, Southeast Asia is perfect for growing, you know, plants in massive, massive, you know, industrial scale. So fingers crossed, it all works out. I'm presuming that Denise would love to be here for this conversation right now, because he knows more about this than any of us. But he's just been giving us some some information here. But all right. All right. So now this is a bit of a bit of a big one. So bear with me. So one of the reports that I read, and we talked about it back in January is the Edelman Trust Barometer. And one of the one of the risks for society is societal breakdown. And of course, when you add the climate crisis information, also, societal breakdown is a big issue, right. But there's a couple of stories that have come out in the last week that I want to share with you. And I'm going to bring them together ones in Australia, and two are in the UK. Now, we're obviously seeing societal breakdown in countries like Sri Lanka, it's expected in a lot of the countries in Africa, the Middle East. So we're waiting for a lot of bad stuff to start emerging. But there's other things going on in in Western developed rich countries. So the first one is teachers speak about atrocious, atrocious staff shortages, crippling many New South Wales public schools. So the essence of this and for all the teachers out there, please have a read of this. So in the remote areas of Australia, it's very hard to attract teaching staff. So staff shortages are not an uncommon thing. But today and it but it rarely goes into the cities, right. But today, schools from Bondi to Broken Hill are struggling to put teachers in front of classes and career educators in New South Wales and across the country say they've never seen anything like it. And we're talking about, you know, a generation of kids, who, for the last couple of years have been so hammered by the lack of education, obviously, online learning with COVID and everything else that's gone on with it. But the teachers are basically just leaving, they're not being treated well. They're not being paid, they're not being respected, and the kids are suffering the teachers are suffering and it's a real crisis. But then when you go across the pond to the UK, there's a piece in The Guardian the store on clouds of Brexit and COVID have moved on. But Britain just isn't working anymore. And this is a really interesting pace. From childcare to the courts, public service service failures are causing chaos. And they asked the question tried getting through to Ajit GP surgeries lately, or a bank or the customer services of almost anything, catching a flight, good luck waiting for a train, stay, stay calm, fingers crossed. And they said over the Jubilee weekend, 1000s of flights were canceled and 10s of 1000s of holidays wrecked. And the transport secretaries basically didn't know what to do about it. The NHS NHS is in distress. It's lost 25,000 beds, what 14 million people are facing delete surgery and 300,000 of those have a heart treatment. A third of GP say they're going to quit in the next four years. They just demoralize the secret the bureaucracy and on crime. And this is amazing. Berg, the failure to invest, investigate burglaries has doubled. prosecutions for rape have plummeted by 70 70%. In the final quarter of 2021 96, criminal trials were abandoned for one to the judge against just for a year earlier. And London education has reduced 41% of site school parents to feeling they have to pay for private tutoring. And then there's one more article and then I'll hand it over to you guys. Johnson's war culture war against judges is having a chilling effect on the rule of law. And this is basically revealing that 99% of all judges in the UK are the seriously or concerned about the current current government's attitude and conduct towards the judiciary. So the media is going after the judges, the government's going after the judges, you know, human rights and it really matters. And basically this all amounts to we went into the COVID pandemic, without trusting the institutions, the institutions have failed many, many people in many, many countries. And this is all a signal that the societal collapse is on the way if we don't get our heads together and turn it around, and obviously in Australia with Albanese government, maybe they're going to focus more on this stuff when we're already seeing some really good moves. But this isn't good news. And Steve as a, as a poem, I'm sure you're going well. You know, it's big stuff that's going on, especially in the in the industries that we all rely on that keep us safe, that keep us educated, you know, the crumbling in the in the wealthy nations? Do you guys have a chance to have a look at any of those three? So I think, on the Guardian article that I read in detail, you know, stories like that, you know, 1000s of planes have been delayed over the Jubilee weekend. And you know, it really read like a sort of tailor way, which is kind of what you'd expect from the mirror online or the sun or something like that. Some of the more sort of publications that Yeah, more alarmist type publication. But when a publication like the Guardian, leads off and use his words, I think that the phrase that jumped out to me a veil of tears. I mean, that's, I mean, that's, that's a very powerful piece. And if it was as chaotic as it appears to be last weekend, just from a little bit of flex, with people kind of coming out and having something to celebrate people moving from A to B, if it was as bad as that Guardian piece suggests, then yeah. Concerning concerning times ahead, I'd say, and you've got inflation going on, and people in the lower low. I mean, one of the articles is that the UK is for the first time in 17 years, petrels over two pounds a litre, and the people at the bottom of society are struggling the most, you know, and they're just not getting any help from the government. So the desperations growing, and, you know, we're going to be in the UK soon. And I'm, I'm curious to see that impact in society, you know, are we going to be facing more danger on the streets as we're walking around with their kids, you know, in certain parts of the country. But yeah, it sounds like the country's in trouble. Think I think I think I think most countries are facing some sort of situation. And in terms of, you know, that the whole post COVID thing is affecting everyone. And the it's not, it's not necessarily just because of some structural thing that has happened. It's also a kind of a general mood that's going around. It's not just people in essential services, they feel they want to quit their jobs. Everyone wants to quit their job. Everyone is trying to do something else to try and find more meaning is they're realizing that they're within systems and institutions that are designed to sort of entrap them in terms of careers, right. So I think there's all that happening at the same time. So it's as a result of that whole market move that we're having the shortage, the market is going to have to correct in our business is going to have to come to the point where it's going to have to start raising wages and make it worthwhile. So you have the baristas who really want to be there who are really enjoying themselves and getting a good career out of it, it's gonna look a little bit more like Australia, actually, I mean, I think I think Australia has a has a better balance in terms of how people are paid. So that, you know, maybe you don't have as many people working in a shop, you gotta wait a little longer. But the guy or girl who's behind the counter is making a decent living wage. So there's a market thing that has to happen, then it's been shocked by what's been happening, I think, in general, people are realizing that time's worth a little bit more than what they're being asked to part with it for. And so they're gonna try and figure something else out. I mean, that's, that's all it is. I mean, it's happening. Even, you know, here in Singapore, some some, some restaurants. I mean, it's if there's any, any country in the world where, you know, the restaurant business is supposed to be okay. Right? It's gonna be Singapore. Companies who were gonna set up a restaurant weren't able to open up in Singapore, because they weren't weren't able to put together the staff. They just weren't able to find enough people to make it work. Yeah, so I think it's interesting. Your point, are you saying compared to Australia, the UK is got things to be concerned about? I think you're right. Because they're dealing with it's a trifecta of conditions that have happened. You got Brett in relatively short period of time, you got Brexit, you got COVID. And then you've got this foon leading the country, in Boris Johnson, where clearly a knotless monkey could do a better job. Okay. So you bang all those together. And people are like, what, what, what I mean, we, we've rented a car for the UK, it just so happens to be exactly the same car that we rented three years ago, what we are paying for a day, this year is what we paid for a week, three years ago, seven times the price. And, and I questioned the car hire company that currently you guys like turn it on here, you know what's going on. He's like, Hey, we've got loads of cars, they've all sat there for two or three years, the chips have become obsolete, we can't get the chips. So we can't we haven't got the cost. So this is the reason why seven times the price. And there's actually companies in the UK that are setting up instead of hiring a car, you actually temporarily buy it. You only have for two weeks, and then you guarantee but sell it back to them. Love that. But I think it's a there's a an unfortunate chain of events. I think that's happening there. And we'll be able to report back on that in in person sort of come to August September, let you know. Yeah. But I think it's more than just those three things. I mean, the inflation that's going on, obviously, because of the war, but also because of climate change. You know, I was looking at, you know, the risk of famine around the world. But there's a report about China's lost 30% of its wheat crop because of extreme weather. We've talked about Thailand's lost 10% of its rise, India's loss, minimum 30%. Because of the heat waves, Canada can't play plans, it's weak, because the the grounds to get wet. I mean, these stories are just coming and coming and coming and coming. So I think there's another whole dimension to it that, I think is I don't think people are putting all the pieces together, they're looking at maybe one or two pieces, but there's multiple pieces, and it's all coming at us so quickly. And you know, the final six months of the year, if you look at the economists and and the climate scientists and all these people, they're talking about what's coming at us, and I don't necessarily think people are really paying attention, which, which, which concerns me because we need to get ready. I mean, I stocked up on on essentials months ago, so that we've got a cupboard, where at least if if if the food runs out, we can at least get The Essentials, because that's what's coming. You know, and it's not nice to talk about. But it's interesting enough and you know, exactly as you put it because safety, security, especially these these nations that you're saying, and education is really a basic right, right. And when you when you look at, you know, some of the articles, especially the ones that that you said, as well. And otherwise, you've got like art teachers teaching maths as a headline. You read that. And then you've got the most, you know, lowly qualified educators or educationalists teaching the most disadvantaged section of the students. That's really concerning. So your pick of education is basic, right? It's not just that it's also necessity, as is security and anything else that goes along with it for maintaining basic civil order. Whereas we can see what's happening through long kind of Cause like you're saying we're bored, you're and whatever else and whatever the policy makers are the ones which would be creating that shift and fast enough, because irrespective, I mean, this got to be we don't know what the balance and how it is going to eventually, you know, draw out. We lost we lost 300 pounds for three weeks for the entire time to rent a car in Thailand. There you go, Steve, we're in the wrong, we're going to the wrong country. Alright. So another story that broke earlier in the week was Bangladeshi fire that killed nearly 50 people and hundreds in a depo blast. So basically, it was on a shipping port, there was a whole bunch of shipping containers. And there was an explosion. The firemen arrived at the at the, at the fire, and it exploded when they after they arrived. So 10 fire fighters were killed and 200 injured. And in a country like Bangladesh. It's not a surprise, it's not surprising to hear a story like this, that unsafe practices would have definitely led to this. I know, Steve, you're sort of more familiar with those sorts of situations. Any thoughts on that one? Oh, apart from the tragedy of it. So waste, Bangladesh, big manufacturing hub feeds lots of very, very, very well heeled, first world brands in the supply chain, all driven by the consumer, everyone loves a bargain. You know, they want something from Gucci or Prada, but they don't want to pay 1000s and 1000s of dollars for it. So get it made over there. You know, basic safety protocols, you know, not smoking, new fuel tanks, basic stuff like that, which you take for granted, just from common sense, if there isn't the oversight there, because they just it's just not important if human life is just not that important. Unfortunately, these things are always going to happen. We saw it with that building collapse there three or four years ago, almost probably 10 years ago now. Yeah. Right. Okay, so it turns I read a report on that the other day by coincidence, it turns out Surprise, surprise, the mayor at the time, took a backhander planning permission for that building. And surprise, surprise, it wasn't structurally designed properly, you know, and everyone's like, wow, really? Well, of course, you know, so, you know, you read these stories, and it's horrible, horrible, you know, so many, so much unnecessary loss of life. But the world's got to the world's got to toughen up to a certain extent. And supply chains need to kick that quality down, all the way up and down. And not do businesses were companies that don't protect their people. And it's it's terrible, full responsibility for the supply chain. And that is one of the greatest career opportunities in the future. If you're, if you want to look, look at building a new business, companies need to get their scope three under control and scope three is the supply chain and the emissions in the supply chain. So if you're looking to build a new business, that's the way to go. Alright, shall we? Did you want to talk about anything before we move on to the next one? No, no, I didn't. I didn't have any any particular thoughts about this. But you know, if pressed, I'll come up with something. You know, I think one of the problems that you have most times with almost anything is, is the how corruption creeps in whether or not it is outright corruption, or is just corruption that that happens because of the maturity of of something that there is there is a kind of corruption that comes in, because we just assume things work a certain way. And then there's a culture that comes up and then we begin to do things a certain way. And then before you realize that there is nepotism, there's cronyism, all the signs of corruption that is unintended, or at least, you know, you don't start off that way. And then you realize, oh, hang on, this whole place is gone. friendly faces only right. So I've always had a difficulty with, I used to be very much a rebel in Singapore, look at the way that Singaporeans used to, or the Singapore government used to do things which like, you know, will change the person in charge every two years for different different departments and different things. But this is the one thing where I think it makes a huge difference. It just gives, it makes it very difficult for unwittingly creating those kinds of circumstances. We know there's obviously a downside. I mean, the Great, the great thing about having someone who is good in there for a long time is they can influence and make it make it better. But the downside of course, the upside is that it makes it very hard for for that kind of corruption to happen. So yeah, that was my corruption. I remember listening to a TED talk at TEDx Ubud in Bali a few years ago. By now, and there was this lady who was speaking about the corruption in Indonesia. What was what was the what Suharto was that the leader was ousted in Indonesia. And basically when he was ousted, and then this whole sort of approach of trying to get corruption out of society sort of came in, and it actually destroyed the economy, because corruption was so, so much of a fundamental part of it, and the sort of Western influence of getting corruption out of it actually screwed up the entire economy. So it was an argument not in support of corruption, but in recognition of the societies run in different ways. And of course, Steve, I mean, you've seen more of this than anyone that I know, corruption is sort of almost like the fabric of life. But this sort of corruption of the safety of people, you know, because at the time, we have the Bangladesh building collapse, and there's been a few, so Disney just left, they just went, you know, because they didn't want to be linked to the brand, they didn't stay there and fix the problems that is left. And then a whole bunch of other fashion brands started getting hammered. And so they came together and made a commitment that they were going to do more for the people in the supply chain, and then COVID hits. And the first thing that that happens is, all of the workers in the fashion industry were abandoned, that docks were just full of these containers full of fashion, garments and bags and stuff that never got shipped. The people never got paid, they lost their jobs. They were sold into slavery, slavery, the girls were sold off into marriage or slavery. And it's like there is no, and ultimately, there is no responsibility to the people who produce what what we buy. And you know, my views on this both of you, it's time for us to say, well, we're not going to buy from these companies, if they're if they're not going to respect the humans in the environment in the supply chain. And if we keep spending the money, they're going to keep doing it, they're not going to change, right. So that's, that's something that's. So that's a really valid point. I remember you telling me about this lady was speaking about corruption. And in some countries, it's just the way countries work. And you know, when it's a case of, you know, people having to pay more for that pair of shoes, or that pair of sneakers or whatever, then fine. I'll give you another example in the same country in Indonesia, post the tsunami, Bandar, Archie got absolutely hammered. Okay. Two and a half years after that, we were still trying to clear that up with reinforced earth embankments and bits and pieces like that 80% of the aid that went into Indonesia did not find its way to where it needed to be 80%. And hey, presto, a whole bunch of construction companies were incorporated. Couple of days afterwards, through a whole bunch of shell companies, a lot of which were owned by dudes in the government untold, allegedly supposedly 80% of the aid that the world had given over because Indonesia got hammered. I think in terms of death, the worst, the world stepped up, tried to help and only, you know, only, you know, 20 cents on the dollar actually did something for good. The rest just bought somebody else, their third Bentley or a Janome, something like that, or you hear things like I hear it makes me feel sick to the stomach. But then a lot of the aid never gets gets where where it needs to go at all right. So like, I'm out the amount of promises that are made in aid never arrived. So it's either it doesn't arrive or it does arrive and then it gets pilfered. So, you know, it's like, yeah, well, I'm, I'm thinking right now about the Malad will not know, analogy, but another Analogously, to how cars work, for instance, and I know cars, not a great thing to talk about, but you know, in terms of fuel consumption of a fuel, fuel gets converted into energy, right? Only about 15% of the energy from from fuel actually goes to what's driving the car forward. Everything else is lost in terms of, you know, heat, other mechanical aspects, you know, sound, whatever. But it also gets the car moving forward. Which, to me, sometimes it's about it's terrible, if you don't like Like, like, he doesn't get there in all, its 100%. For me, the question is, okay, let's say the 20% gets through, is it coming through and being used very, very effectively? I mean, I, I hate to be the guy who thinks about these ridiculous ideas, right? But I've been in organizations where all the money goes into the activity and everybody tries to do the best they can, but they're just not good at it. And I'm wondering whether or not they're the situations where you know, if if, if there's a way of looking at this and going like okay, as as as far as the efficiency given corruption is concerned. And we can still work with us when he was in that will make it move forward, we can we can still move that car forward. I mean, it's terrible that all the other people sort of get away with something extra along the way. But, you know, maybe that's the cost of it. Maybe that's what it is. I mean, I think about it, when it comes to food and the f&b business, right? How much? How much? How much of it when you when you pay someone for food? How much are you paying actually for the food? Because because they got only that much margin, the rest of it is going, you know, everywhere. It's the it's the it's the mechanism that gets you the food, the air conditioning, the the whole environment, you know, so you're right, Joe, you know, 20% is better than a kick in the teeth. But that was such an emotive is such an emotive sort of project as such an emotive catastrophe. And everybody kind of stepped up and when you get boots on the ground, and actually see it for yourself. You know, there's a, there's a, there's a town, just north in the southern part of Thailand called Colac. And it's kind of weird when you drive through it, there's all these brand new trees, close to the coast, because he got absolutely flattened. There's a museum there, which is about two K's inland, and in the car park is a boat, and it's a fishing boat. And that's where it ended up. So if you go there, and you see the devastates when you see how, you know how tragic it can be, and the devastation is, I guess it's just a very emotional thing. But you're right, you're absolutely right. You know, Rome wasn't built in a day. So we just keep moving forward, right? Yeah, yeah. And when a lot of people get hung up in that stuff, but the bigger and more important thing is helping the people who are suffering. So Arista has had a A fuse blow because something's going off in the in the building, so she'll be back when she can. All right, the US and guns so the conversation continues and continues to confuse the majority of people around the world. So last year, the FBI says that active shooter incidents in the US jumped 53% last year. So that was kind of an interesting one, there was a bit of a slowdown at the start of COVID. And then it's escalated again, but one of the one of the really, really interesting articles, my friend Denise choice shared this week was two professors found what creates a mass shooter will policy petitions pay attention. So I don't know if you know that the there's not the Senate. The other one is Congress. So they've basically voted to do an age limit. So you've got to be 21 years old to get a gun, like just like alcohol and cigarettes, right. And apparently, once it gets into into the Senate, the Republicans will shut it down. So it's not looking like any change is really going to happen. But they're saying that mass shooters fit a certain profile. And these two researchers basically put together a database of every mass shooter since 1990 1966, who shot and killed four or more people in a public place. And every shooting incident at schools, workplaces and places of worship since 1999. They published a book on it. And there's commonalities across all of them. And it's a they they're suggesting a data and a mental health based approach, which of course requires, you know, owning up to that the fact that there's a big social problem. But the consistent pathway is early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether it's violence in the home sexual assault, parental suicides, or extreme bullying. Then you see the build towards hopelessness, despair, isolation, self loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. And that turns into a really identify identifiable crisis point where they go on to do this. So another thing that was mentioned in these is the majority of the people that commit these acts are also intending to commit suicide. And it was first time I've heard the term use, they call it violent suicide. So they're committing suicide, but part of the part of the journey to their suicide is to is to kill as many people as they can. And I just found this, I don't know if you've had a chance to read it, it was a bit more of a sort of a deeper read, but it was a fascinating read. And, you know, if they're not going to change the gun laws, at least pay attention to this side so that we can we can identify these kids before they take that next step and and cause that amazing grief that they've caused. did. Did either of you have an opportunity to read it? Don't worry if you didn't, it was a longer one. Yeah, yeah. Well, me I feel that when when we talk about stuff like that, I realize it's completely valid, right, that Matt, the mindset of this person is what they where they are right. But I know fundamentally, there must be someone like that in Singapore as well. Right? I mean, they they Gotta be people like that in Singapore. But we don't generally worry that much that they're going to be, you know, they wind up in a situation where there's going to be a mass violent event. I mean, the Paris thing we can get to is if somebody, you know, maybe in the armed forces, while they're on an arm, live, live ammo, costs, and whatever it is, when they have access to the weapons and the ammo, that something might happen. And even then, it's it's a, it's such a, it's such a controlled environment, right, you've got a limited number of things. The average, the average gotten us in the UK, in the US the AK 47, the the sorry, the AK 47, the AR 15 Train has access to technology, which some armies or many armies would want. Yes, it's, it's the kind of damaging power. And I just saw this video where we lawmakers are those are trying to defend it right now to say that all of these weapons are unnecessary for defending against feral animals, you know, whatever. You don't, you don't need a weapon, they can completely obliterate an animal. You know, when it when it hits? You know, you don't need that. I mean, I think there's enough there's enough law or in the EU in the US that was suggested you could use a BB gun, you know, to defend your property against smaller animals, you could you could you could dissuade them quite well with it with one of those. And maybe also just rifles. You don't need an automatic you don't have a semi automatic for for that. You don't need that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's my question. I think the article was was was pretty fascinating. You know, for me, it was fascinating how they could draw back such similar conclusions at such base points. You know, there was going to start things up. That I think the difference is, Joe is you know, that you're right, there will be there's not cases everywhere, right, proper nut cases, and they're in Singapore, and they're in London, and they're everywhere. But if you give a nutcase a chance to walk into a store, and buy an assault rifle with a photo ID and 395 rounds of ammunition at any given time at any setting at the age of 18 kind of exposing yourself to it. You know, every time these every time. They're horrible, you know, I remember hunger for the Hungerford slaughter, as it was called in the UK. Some guy just had a bad day. Exactly the same profile as this report is caught out, had a bad day, took a rifle walk down the street shot 11 people dead I think then you had the horrible the school shooting up in Scotland, Dunblane? You know, they're horrible. And Australia has has its own as well. Australia had one and said, You know what, no more. You don't need an assault rifle to keep animals off your land. So no more assault rough was a no, no, that was covered last week in great detail and how much it cost the Australian Government. For me what stood out with this is, you know, three years ago, Congress agreed to increase the age limit where you want to buy tobacco from 18 to 21. Right. And they seriously can't get together on this. I mean, a pack of smokes, versus a deadly weapon. And I don't know about anybody else on this call. But at 18. I didn't have all the answers. And I certainly didn't, I certainly didn't understand the concept of repercussions and consequences. So if you can't change people from the way they behave, you have to put a framework around them. It's kind of like kids, you put a framework around them, and you let them kind of bump left and bump, right. But you make sure it doesn't end in tragedy. When it keeps happening like this. Some would say there's a very strong case that that extreme action is required. Some would say, speaking to a colleague from America last week. And he's like, Hey, I only got a shoot. He said, I go I go shooting with my buddies twice, twice a year. He said on any one date, if I if I let off three rounds, that'd be a busy day. I don't need to buy 385 rounds at a time and I don't need a clip. You can now get automated drums that takes like a standard 38 round clip to like 50 or 60 without reloading. I don't need that amount. So and then you have the cross contamination of the right to bear arms out of context, as I noticed the show's covered before so it kind of gets to the point where you become numb to it after a while unfortunately and you're like, Well, if this doesn't change things, what will? And you know, and then it's something worse that happens the next week. So sometimes it's tough choices. I don't know if it's, I don't think it's numb. It's just resigned. I mean, it's like, it's obvious to everyone in the world what needs to happen. And, you know, some of the reports of the parents and they're all parents in America, you know, just because it happened to that school today, their children are like, well, am I safe? And none of the parents can say, well, yeah, you're safe? Because I don't know. Nobody knows. Right? So it's, it's a crazy time, because the big star of the show this week, as far as this debate goes, was Matthew McConaughey, who apparently is looking at running for government, which, which would be kind of interesting, you'd have a nice voice for somebody in politics. He did a speech. Yeah. And he did a speech at the White House. He was born in Britain, of LD, apparently, that's how you say it. And one of the things he did to you did was present this little pair of green converse with a red hat with a heart on one on the right foot, that this will go wear every single day. And it was the only item left that could be identified. So they could identify her body. And so basically, the call is out to competence to launch green, converse boots with a red heart on the right boot. And any profits raised goes towards the community in ivaldi. So I thought, you know, he's, of course, he's been criticized as someone who shouldn't be there, we shouldn't be talking. He's a he's a Hollywood star. They don't have a right to an opinion and all that crap that happens all the time. Anyone time, anyone, anytime anyone famous speaks up, but I thought he did a really good job. It was very emotional. Watching him doing these obviously means he's hometown. Of course, he's passionate about ERISA, did you have a chance to have a watch is your fuse bag. It was absolutely brilliant, I think and he does, he does speak up about it. I mean, there's a few of them in the industry, they do speak up about certain issues, time and time again. But this time, I think he's really serious about this, because the loss is, is unimaginable, it's literally like you said every week, and I was speaking to one of my TEDx, Curator curators from Afghanistan, Kabul, so they haven't had trouble when you when you think of the Middle East, and you know, when we were in Taipei, just just pre COVID, because we had a 10th reunion there, the TEDx reunion year of the curators and license holders, global reunion, one of the things we were talking to him and literally just asked, time and time again, the couple that's really strange, you have a TEDx platform there as well. And they do they've got great speakers on the relevant topics from there. And I asked him, I said, so what I mean, but you keep hearing these bizarre stories about you know, you really don't know what's gonna happen next. He said, That's exactly how it is. My mum doesn't know if I'm gonna come back that day, because they've had a blast in certain areas, or whatever. And one of the places where they were at, and I think it was an academy, or senior college students, where they host their annual events. And there was a blast there. And he said, I happen to go to support one of my friends, we got away, but we knew I mean, so basically, the family, you know, someone in the other is going to go, and that's no different from what's happening here. Like you said, you don't really know if it's safe or not. It's it's very similar for him to bring that up. And he said, Well, do you see the school shootings there every week? There's a thing. So how do you know when my mom worries by me? They say that it's a concern. And it's Iraq and all this, if you don't know where they're going, you know, every year that some triple members are going to be gone because of this violence nonsensical is the same over there. It's just younger cases, it's random shootings, at warehouses at supermarkets and schools. And suddenly you sit and think you really don't know if you're safe because you don't know you parking your car. There's a loony, whatever you're walking in, because he's had a busy day and of people. Yeah, the escalation of violence. I mean, you know, the last time I was saying, it's really not actually violence, like like, like Steve has, has just put it right. It's not really violence. It's just someone who's had a really bad day is off his mind or someone who's like, like you're saying at, you know, that the stats that go between the ages of 13 to 18, are suicidal, and depression and all of that. And the age for buying all of that is similar. It's bizarre, why would you have something of that sort and fight to keep it there, even after so many incidents? It's just amazes me, but then I don't know if you know, or nonreactive if you've actually heard any of the arguments from the you know, why they wanted that in the first place. I can't understand I can't get my head. I always talk about how the the societies that suffer from too much democracy, right and that really is the when you have built a media the American idea of your life is built around unfreedom. That's the whole thing about about what it was about the land of the free home of the brave, all that kind of stuff. And what happens is it's it's not, I would say hijacked it is employed to make it. Your right to do various things, right even even this idea of free speech, for instance, it's it's been mislabeled people, people think they understand what free speech is. And that's not what America is about. America is not the place where you can say anything you want. It's no one's infringing your free speech, when they sue you or what you say. Because you know, you have the right to say, but you also have you also accountable for what you say. So Americans, Americans have been sold this idea of freedom, that all these things represent freedom, and guns represent freedom. And people have bought the idea. And so it sits, it sits there as a symbol for those people. If the user religious, sort of parallel, religious people are not going to let you touch their ornaments, the statues that they have the Holy Statues, or whatever they've got, because these are the symbols, right? Will they necessarily use them? You know, I, for a good long time, I had rosaries and never saw the day of light like a day. But you know, but if you would, I would give them up. If you said that not that these are these are not allowed, because for whatever reason, I don't like you having them. I would have had trouble with it. Make them right. So that's kind of what's happening with the guns. The guns are symbols. They're not. They're not just guns, they're not tools. It's like someone going into your house right now and saying like, you cannot have forks anymore. Why? Well, forks are kind of dangerous. Yeah. But I want my forks. Right. I mean, that's, that's the thing. So it's part of that. It's partly that and the other. The other thing we're talking about is this normalization around you, right, I used to think I couldn't figure out how people in Israel and in Palestine could live day to day knowing that there could be a bomb going off. Anytime, why would you go to a cafe ever? When that kind of thing hung over your head? We get used to it. We really do. You know, it's why people live in abusive relationships. Sometimes we're in environments where things are not great, we're in toxic environments, we have this ability to adjust our thermostat so that you know what this is, this is what we're comfortable with. This is the acceptable amount of risk. And that's what I think Americans have come to live with as well. They have come to understand how to deal with things. They have come to understand that you know, you can you can you can make perhaps engage in road rage, but don't keep going all the way because there's a risk that your adversary is more than just someone who's got a horn, they may have another weapon on board. I mean, that's, that's that's the kind of thing so we they find a way of dealing with it. It's sad that that's the way it works. But that answers the question why it can be it's like, you know, if you take a step back into time, there's so many moments in time when people would just say that's unacceptable. Why would you just Why did you take it? And you go like, well, that's just the way it is. And that's really the sad wrong answer to a lot of things, right? It's like, this is the way it is, it takes people outside of that to go like, Okay, now how do I push so hard against this, that I can make something happen? I mean, what happened in Australia, for instance, really is what needs to happen. And I don't know what the event has to be in the US. But what happened in Australia with the the mass shooting that led to the removal of all the all the assault weapons, that that was the kind of shot that was necessary, because up to that point, it was happening as well. It was it was it was the way it is. Australians were getting used to the idea of yeah, we can get guns, we can have guns, we can have these. Enough people said, you know, it's okay, we have all have these weapons for sale, until something happened. And then they said, No, this is this is what we can't accept anymore. So America, unfortunately, is so far down this path that I mean, when you have when you have this situation where you go like that you hear about the mass shooting. And you have to ask the next question, which one? Yeah. I don't know if that argument about Australia is correct. Because like, obviously, from a farmer's perspective, guns have been part of the culture but and from a criminal perspective, that part of the culture, but I don't think Australia has ever had that. You know, that second amendment, you know, got to the right to bear arms, that sort of message within the Constitution, I think that says that's the piece The center of this which is different to everywhere else in the world, and we've never had this level of shooting that you see in America. Yeah, but you weren't for what you want so far down the journey. You're not I mean, as in like in terms of the stage, like Steve just said, Sorry, I'm jumping in, is there? The ask is, I don't know if the ask is actually to completely get rid of it, or the ask is a stricter laws and you know, better structure, knowing what the situation is, knowing how it's exploding this this particular problem? You putting it in the hands of these youngsters, or folks that you know, sure about things? It's just putting the regulations in place? It's not the ask, the ask is not because they know it's really far, far, far down the road. I mean, there's no comparison whatsoever. So I think I think it kind of ties in, sorry, to carry on. Yeah, no, sorry. I was just completing that. If you think of it in that sense, I mean, it's probably time for them to step out at least show or show to the world that it is making a difference. And they are listening. And they are, which is why the Matthew McConaughey you know, makan haze and so on are feeling in different ways, you know, sending out the message in different ways. It's high time you wake up, their governments wake up and policymakers wake up. I think another another way to look at it is to classify the type of weapons. So you know, so when the whole Australian thing happened, such a strong agricultural communities there, they need weapons, and they have like hunting rifles single shot, okay. Yeah, ar 15. So 15, which is, which is the next gen from the M 16? I don't know. I think it has a fire rate, 600 rounds per minute. It's designed to lay down heavy fire, because it's an assault rifle. Because as you're moving forward, you put down fire to keep people's heads down. So the question is, you know, is there a place for assault rifles in society? Probably. There'll be lots and lots of people in America that would say, Well, it's a right to bear arms, who said, Yeah, but what's next? If you had the money, would you go and buy an Abrams tank? Just because it's a weapon, and it's an arm? You know? And then what's next? You're gonna if you have the money, can you buy an Apache helicopter? Well, of course not. That would just be ridiculous. Well, you know, it's no more ridiculous than having like an Uzi which spits out 900 rounds per second, do you really need that for vermin control or to protect your property? Maybe that's a way forward. Maybe that's a way that where people can keep their guns, but the right type of gun? Maybe? I don't know. That's about that's part of what they're fighting for. It's so deep rooted. I mean, Andrew, you lived in America, I've spent a lot of time in America. It's so deep rooted there. It's not just you can't turn it up. But one has to ask the question. When will the burden of proof from the burden of evidence just become too much? Yeah, how many more people? It's a very contentious subject. And I'm sure, probably might attract a lot of negative attention, but not you know, the party. That's right. That's fighting for the right to life, of course, is also the same party that's not wanting to do anything about background checks, minimum age restrictions, why not? Getting war weaponry, out of the public domain? You know, those three things? That's basically what people are asking for? I've got friends who are fighting, fighting on that side in the US. It's not about taking guns off people. Because no, that's not going to work. It's just about putting some measures in place. Like, I think last week, we were talking about Kinder eggs. You can't buy Kinder eggs because they're dangerous. All right, all right. All right, let's move on to the climate. I'm gonna do a few pieces on the climate before we get to the theme section because we keep missing out and it's really important. So Deloitte have issued a report that basically saying climate inaction could cost the world $178 trillion dollars. But action could add 43,000,040 3 trillion to the economy instead, it's, I always want this kind of conversation about adding to the economy, because actually, what we need to do is shrink. But anyway, just to give you a sense, Hurricane Ida cause caused $75 billion in damages. The floods in Germany cost 40 billion. The floods in China, China's so called 17 billion, and the wildfires in the US cost 10 billion. And as well as the word spread drought cost another 8.9 billion. But what was really interesting is in the 1990s, and 2000s, that oil companies hired economic consultants to write reports that inflated the projected cost of climate action and ignored the benefits. So there you go. Have those guys have been added again. But basically, it's going to cost us more in the short term, but in the longer term action is is is where we need to go. So any thoughts? So I use that last point you just bought, I started reading that article from the Fast Company and I thought this is good, put it, put it put an economic spin on it. That's how we'll get big business engaged. I actually found the article a little bit naive. So the point that you brought up, you know, but we found out in the 1900s, and the 2000s, that oil companies were paying consultants to write reports that they rated, really shocker. You know, I mean, a year that kind of naive. So, it took, I must admit, I took a little bit of credibility away from me from that particular report. But I think, well, I did, what why did they take the credibility because you understand the industry, three year old could work out a three year old could work out that they were paying consultants to paint a bleak picture, it's the oldest trick in the book, you get a guess ultimately, you pay them enough, they'll they'll write a report for anything. Now, this is like a revelation. It just took a little bit of credibility away from the piece for me, I love the idea. And I definitely think it's the way forward, put an economical upside on addressing climate change. That's how we'll get big businesses involved. You know, Deutsche Bank have got a Green Fund. They've had a Green Fund for years. I remember 15 years ago, talking to a guy who's very ensconced in that side of things and funding and in hedge funds, he's like, Yeah, Deutsches Green Fund is is is very, very pop. I think that's how we'll get big business over the line. Old, old thinking isn't gonna get us out of this problem. In France, we saw a protest where a young lady and her name is Ella Z, and she's a 22 year old French national. And she basically tied herself to the net, neck by the neck to the tennis court. And her statement, we are in 2022. And it is time to look reality in the face the world to which politicians are sending us is a world to which Roland Garros will no longer be able to exist. Today, I entered the field because I can no longer take the risk of doing nothing in the face of the climate emergency. So yeah, so she started trying to sell by the neck and she was wearing a t shirt on both sides. It says we have 101,028 days left. And it's been really interesting because people have been sharing it. And people have been commenting what is the mean by 1028 days, and they've been criticizing the people who are posting it. And basically the the IPCC report has come up with a timeline that we absolutely have to start acting today. And by the by by 1028 days away, if we're not acting, we're pretty much in trouble. But again, another another topic, where do you remember, it wasn't that long ago, a month, six weeks ago, there's these two British media personalities. And it was compared to the don't look up interview where a young environment activists was speaking and, and they were just like, Yeah, but what about what you're wearing? Do you remember that there was a bit of a sensational news base that six weeks ago, it just felt it just feels like that saints the way people look, the guy that did the evaluation, what was that there was another, there was another protest recently, similar sort of thing. But the the older people are a patronizing younger people for taking these actions. But the younger people don't feel like they've got anything left to do. So there's those sorts of actions are gonna start becoming more and more and more, and they're gonna get more extreme, because the young people are genuinely terrified of the future that's coming for them. So yeah, I thought that was good on her, as far as I'm concerned. And it went viral. And it was really, really interesting. And you're right about the comments. But you know, going back to where, what were the facts from the report as well, it said, the articles are your lead. They, they do realize, and it says so in multiple of these, you know, how you got the snippets on Insta and all the little videos showing what's happened, what needs to be done, and so on your with BuzzFeed, and so on. much the technology obviously already exists. And, you know, to transition into that phase, but it just needs to be deployed faster. And obviously, like you've said that it is the requirement which is going to face that expense and that big box spent now what you're looking at the long term, huge, huge benefits. I wonder where they would be sitting now the same folks that are doing the reports in the past, and their contemporaries as up to date on the economic things and how much again, the proof that is needed to make that big shift and big push to make it actually happen and faster. 1028 days there was a big one. I mean, she she did that for the image basically to go viral to put in to put in that statement that this is not it's really become a countdown the days. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. Get yourself a climate clock. Yeah, that's interesting. So some drought stories out of the US that are really, really huge. So the first is in the BBC drought stricken us warned of looming Deadpool. So basically, we've got a once in a lifetime drought. So there you go, Steve, this is for your section. In the western part of the US, we're basically dead bodies are turning up. So it's on the Arizona Nevada border near Las Vegas. And it's called Lake Mead. And it's formed by the creation of the Hoover Hoover Dam on the Colorado River. And it's the largest rivers reservoir on the United States providing water to 25 million people in three States and Mexico. And basically, once it gets to a certain level, not only are they going to keep uncovering more bodies, and talking about the mob activities in Las Vegas, but that basically, the Hoover Dam would no longer be able to produce hydropower or deliver water downstream. So 25 million people with no water, NASA is obviously monitoring changing water levels around the world, but in the US, is saying it's one of the worst droughts I've ever seen. With climate change. It seems like the dominoes are beginning to fall. And we're all saying that, when we get to warmer temperatures, we get less participants precipitation, and snow, the reservoir, the reservoir start drying up, then in a place like the West, we get wildfires, so the the feedback loops, and basically they saying it's like watching this slow motion catastrophe kind of unfold. And then in Utah, sorry, I'm stumbling over my words, the Great Salt Lake dries up in Utah, and they talk they're talking about it being an environmental nuclear bomb. So basically, once this water goes down, Salt Lake City would turn, occasionally poisonous, because high levels of arsenic are in the ground. And it's going to once it becomes exposed, the wind storms are going to pick that arsenic up and send it into into the local community. And yeah, they're saying got this potential nuclear bomb that's going going to go off if we don't take some dramatic action. So there's two huge stories about two huge lakes in the US. And you kind of wonder, one of the other things that I thought was really interesting is the lake is full of flies, and this brine shrimp, and when the water goes, they'll die off. And that will impact 10 million migratory birds that stop it that like to feed. So it's big. I mean, there's other things as well, the the snow melts, not going to come down to the river. So the revenue from the from, from skiing, and also extracting magnesium from the water, that that will stop as well. So it's a really these to me these two huge stories, and it's like, Hello, America, it's here. Are we paying attention yet? I think the challenge that the the woman faces really is this thing of conceivability How how someone can can figure something out. I mean, so I was thinking about how to, you know, for for people who see it, they go like why it's so obvious, why not right? And I want you to put yourself into the minds of someone and you've been on the other side of it as well, when someone has just started an MLM business. They really see it, they go and understand how it's what's possible and where it can go. And if someone asks somebody else, and someone joins them and all that his whole huge empire builds up, and all this stuff can happen. And it's conceivable for them. But everybody else around them is like no, this is inconceivable, I can't I can't see this happening. I know if I talk about you know, the environment and try to form some kind of a, you know, parallel with MLM. It's maybe not as strong. But you see this happening with a lot of ideas where there seems to be enough of a reason for things to be to be to be believable, like, for instance, I'll just use cryptocurrency as the example right now. There are a lot of people, I sound like Trump now there are a lot of people who, who know better, who are who are who have an understanding of money and economy and all that who will like okay, digital currency, cryptocurrencies actually have a very strong reason to exist. I mean, we talked about some of the problems that we could solve with this, for instance, like charity, if you could, if you could see exactly where your money went. Cryptocurrency would be a great solution. It would it would make if everyone understood how to start doing that kind of accounting, you'd be able to see more things and do more things. And in terms of what you can do with it. It is something that's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's gonna be huge. I have a personal belief that it's going to be huge. And I think there are enough people who feel that way as well. We can't convince everyone to get on board. That way, it's going to be a long time before everyone says, oh, cryptocurrency is just a thing and the way it works and all that. But by that time, it's going to be everywhere. And it's going to be as large as it's going to be. At that point, it's going to be very hard to try and do something meaningful about it if you're if you plan to. And I think we're there with the environment as well. We, we have this problem of conceived of in conceivability. You know, the ideas you talk about? I believe that they're completely possible. It's just weather, the weather the minds that people didn't go like, yes. And I believe this is this is that close? You know, 1028 days? It's inconceivable. For many people, I'm not saying that it is not true. I'm just saying it's inconceivable how do we make it such that it is conceivable, and we can bring this thing so that it's closer to them? Right? You need to see the signs of things at your doorstep to realize that it's for real, you know, I realized that like in Singapore, we have this crazy situation where we are aware of things that are going wrong in the world supply chain and everything, right. But we solve the problem so much that we don't feel the issue. Like recently, we've had this thing where we talked about how Malaysia is going to cut the whole supply of chickens by a number of several millions. And so it was one of those crazy numbers, it should have had a shock on the way that we live our lives here. Right? But because it's so efficient, it's just they solve the problems with supply chains and everything and all that we've had no feeling of the problems that come along with that. So part of the problem? Well, yeah, but part of the problem is we solve the problems. Yeah, that really is that right? It's like, it's like Mom, say like, you know, I'm I'm just gonna leave the laundry to pile up or have I'm not just I have to let you guys figure out that when we if you if you don't plan, you're not going to have dinner? A lot of times that doesn't happen. And then it's again, like, aren't you trying to have a you can't be can't conceive that mom's gonna neglect you or, or that the world's not going to continue the way it is, because just don't feel it. And yeah, it's slowly creeping up, right now we have this thing with with inflation coming up, the price of fuel coming up, you know, all these things coming out, which which, which are beginning to sort of like, like, make a difference. I think the US they had enough of the fires to make them feel for a while that something was happening. But then he had this whole argument again, about what's the reason the fires are happening. I mean, you know, Jewish lasers from space, that's right. You know, the ones are two way with what she had on a t shirt was I it's not really to whether it's believable, consumable, or not possible or not possible, is really to make a statement, that it's time it's ticking. It's real, it's taking. So it's just you know, that beating it again, and again, on the big drum. That's where the shifts start to happen. Because actually, when it comes to the mind purchase, right, so actually did say late, I don't know if you've seen any of the clips in a way of transferring data that it is to, to put that into words clear, and a picture leaves that thing in your head. But this is a drum that needs to be beat, not just by me saying, sitting here with that thing around my neck, that I'm one voice, but you all need to be the same drum to make that shift happen faster sooner, because it is a ticking. You know, it's sorry, a ticking clock, the climate clock that I think there was a point whether it's actually going to make a difference is going to actually work. At least the action towards it needs to have that shake up a lot more and more. Yeah, I think we're gonna see a lot more of it. Last week, I was trying to remember it was course, it was the guy at the Louvre who put the cake on the Mona Lisa, another one global, global global heating is turning the Alps, the whites up screen. And of course, you know, the impact of that is when the Alps finally go fully green, the water that comes down and replenishes the rivers is not going to be happening. So then we're going to be saying other other bad things going on, you know, so that the feedback loops, the environment, environmentalists have joined forces to fight carbon bomb fossil fuel projects. So a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about this Guardian report on the what they call the carbon bombs. And it looks like this coordinated action is happening happening on a global scale. And that's the sort of stuff we need. But here's the thing that Singaporeans definitely won't be able to ignore it the Time, potentially fatal combinations of humidity and heat are emerging across the globe. So the old way of thinking was by the basically the end of this century. In the tropics and subtropics, in particular, the warming client, climate could cause combined heat and humidity to reach levels rarely, if ever experienced, sorry, rarely have ever experienced before by humans, they're now saying that is absolutely incorrect. Some new research is saying they're already happening. The study says there's 1000s of previously rare or unprecedented bouts. I love that word of extreme heat and humidity in Africa, Asia, Australia, South America and North America, including the US Gulf Coast. So we're seeing massive heat waves currently in the Middle East. In India and Pakistan, it hasn't changed, the wet bulb got up to 31. In India and Pakistan. And wet bulb means basically, especially in the tropics, especially by the sea, the the amount of humidity increases, and then you're incapable of sweating. So in dry climates, it's not as bad, you can evaporate the water through the skin. And so basically, what happens is your internal organs start to fail. And even a very, very healthy person who's sitting outside, under a tree with no clothes on and plenty of water to drink, still would die within a matter of hours. So this is this is happening. So maybe this is the wake up call. Or maybe for Singapore, it'll be when the doomsday Glacia goes. But so basically, the web bowl condition is 32 degrees Celsius. So I predict that weather in the future will be reported with wet bolts. And basically, once you get to a reading of 35. You it's beyond survivability. So this is a worldwide study, where bulbs are approaching or exceeding 30 degrees C, and it's doubled since 1979, the number of readings of 31 previously believed to have only have occurred rarely. And now total around 1000 readings of 33 previously thought to be non existent, and now totaling around 80. So this is this is a piece of the news that everyone should be paying attention to. Because basically, in these parts of the world, you won't be able to go outside during these sort of temperatures. And of course, it won't be all year round, it'll be for periods of time, but it's unlivable. And then farmers can't work their field, they can't, can't, you know, bring the crops in. If it's too hot, the crops won't be able to grow. So it increases the chance of famine. So, you know, obviously, precipitation, all that sort of stuff. So the wheat bulb sorry, to me, it's a really big part of the story. And it's happening. So did anyone have a chance to read that one? It's a bit of a sort of a academic report. I must admit, I've I focused my efforts on the Guardian article about the carbon bombs, because I had not heard that before. I don't know, I don't want to get off topic here. But I read that and I literally could feel ice water going through my veins, you know, because especially when I got to the definition of what a carbon bomb was, it's, it's a fossil fuel project, which will emit a billion with a B, tons of co2 in its lifetime. And 60% of them are already underway. Yeah. So I kind of I was still in sticker shock when I read that. So unfortunately, I did not go on and read the colomba, the Columbia eight article, I like the I find it the concept of the wet bulb. Scary, fascinating at the same time. But it's all pointing towards the same direction, you know, go do something. I just think of the people in our community, you know, whether there's a lot of migrant workers or Burmese workers living in tin shacks. And of course, there's a lot of people that have had to move out into those sort of, sort of the construction sort of housing that exists in many parts of Asia, because they lost everything because of the economic fallout of COVID. They can't survive in those in those buildings. You know, so just, you know, the whole adaptation conversation that needs to happen. How do we protect the people in these in this part of the world and in the poorer parts of the world? So across Africa, how do we protect them in these in these crazy temperatures? Are we just going to let them all die? You know, because that's literally what is going to happen if we don't get on top of it. And it's expected to happen in the next couple of years. All right. All right. So talking about wet bulb temperatures more than 30 million in the southwest brace for dangerous heat the New York Times article. So basically temperatures will rise well above 100 degrees in California, California and Nevada and Arizona this week end and 30 million people understand Some sort of heat related alert through at least part of the weekend and they're expecting 48 states to experience and crazy temperatures in June, July and August. I don't know, maybe that's maybe that's the moment where 1000s of people die, or hundreds of 1000 people die. Maybe that's the moment that the world sort of goes. Maybe we do need to pay attention because no one was paying attention to the, to what was happening in India and Pakistan, or what's happening in the Middle East? Maybe that's what we need, I don't know. So you know, what, I think what will probably really get people's attention, unfortunately, more than a catastrophic event like that, just linking from the leader article about the Lake Mead, which was actually quite fascinating, because as the water level has dropped, they are literally finding all these bodies that apparently the mob threw in there during the development of the Las Vegas days. You know, what if Vegas was to be without water or electricity for 24 hours, and someone did the sun's on the economical impact on that? That'll probably get people's attention and get things moving, unfortunately. Yeah. I mean, you know, Vegas, not 25 million people with no access to water. Because they're kind of money. Yeah. But like put put $1 Figure out there and equate it to somewhere where most folks, you know, have a rosy sort of like perspective, policy papers and like, less than three hours drawn up and signed. Yeah, and you'll probably get a whole ton of funding as well for that. Arista? Yeah. I you know, you know, the young lady, tying yourself to the, the Roland Garros thing, great, you know, if that, if that opens 10 People 10,000, hopefully 10 million people's eyes to the fact that it's a ticking time bomb, and there is 1000 days left, or pads. It's about finding that kind of message. And Andrew is a communication professor, professional, you know that better than anybody? Unfortunately, I think it will take something like that. I hope there's something like that that comes along. You know, a bit more than it has been for years. Yeah, exactly. But I'll tell you, we're obviously taking it seriously because another article in The Guardian, gold rush for gas production threatens to lock in global heating. So they're paying attention. Like crazy. Alright, so the global economy, there was a there's a really interesting article, I didn't get a chance to share it with you guys in Reuters. So they're expecting Russia's economy to slump, and it will wipe out wipe out 15 years of gains. So the International Institute of International Finance is predicting that gross fixed capital formation will contract 25% and 22 imports 28% and exports 25%. But on the other side, Ukraine is actually facing a balance of payments crisis, as the war is obviously hammering their economy. And it finishes with the support for Ukraine is needed now. Which of course, you know, with this is probably the hardest time because people are gonna get bored, their attentions are gonna go elsewhere. But Joe, what are you seeing what's going on in the global economy? Well, I hate to sound or at least placed on that kind of pedestal where it might be an Oracle about it. But yeah, the numbers you see about Russia that those were not unexpected. I mean, people I guess, in Russia saw that coming as soon as, as soon as the sanctions were announced. You saw the you saw those protests where, you know, the guy came on, we're on TV, and basically that his his toast goodbye to, to the stock market, right. I mean, he basically said it was all done. And to a large extent, it is done. I mean, if you talk about a growth situation, there is no growth to expect, not just in Russia, but I think, for the rest of the world as well, you have to be we're in a situation right now, where the central banks are having to face some real real problems locally as well. So there's international trade, yes. But there is inflation, which they have to try to fix at home. And the traditional way that they have to fix inflation is to do things which are not as good for business as well. I mean, the the the the rate hikes are something which which increased the cost of lending for instance, so the the, the kind of the ease at which money is available for development for business and all that. It's less easy as well. So with measures like that in place, combined with the actual rising costs of inflation and stuff, it's really making it very challenging for the world to move forward. This this this few years, people are trying to avoid the bear saying that we're trying to avoid a global recession. I'm not an economist, I'm not I certainly was very interested to learn about it when I was doing my A levels. But I, I find it very hard to see a situation where we avoid a recession from what's happening right now. Because I think, first of all, we're all linked to fuel and fuel is affecting all of us in a very significant way. In all the costs around us are, are also beginning to show up. I mean, like a lot of the things that have happened before, like previous times, we talk about bit of inflation here and there, there's kind of almost been an invisible to us. But we are beginning to see and feel those things. And industry is really beginning to feel the squeeze. You're you're experiencing it when you go abroad, and you see this, the cost of a car, you know, for rental has gone up. And it's for various reasons. It's not just because the you know, it's not, it's not just because they can, it's because it's also a lot of other real reasons that can make that happen or leads to it. So we're facing a real challenge, a real a real squeeze. And the tools that we usually have to try to fix the problems are not going to say not gonna solve those problems easily. I see them because I, you know, I trade Forex, so I can see what the central banks are trying to do to push and massage things along the way. But they have they have they have a limited scope right now. Right? I mean, to stimulate the economy, how far how far, how far down can the real lending go? Europe, euro was rated zero in Japan. And I think I don't know what the number is in Japan. But they went with that zero number for the longest time as well. How do you stimulate economies and then you don't want to actually have have a stimulating sort of action, you don't have inflationary pressure to add to the market when there is inflation already in place. So the fact that for instance, Europe decided or the the ECB decided not to raise the interest rates was the shock in the market that they thought for sure they were going to raise the rates to try and combat inflation and they didn't, leaves it wide open to see what really happens. I mean, right now, it's sort of floating in space with a downward momentum. And they didn't, they didn't, they didn't activate the brakes for inflation, at least as far as ECB was concerned. And so we wait and see, you know, what else is gonna happen now? Yeah, you guys, you got to sort of paying attention to what's going on? Yes, in the news, yes. But don't have much comments on this. It's a very, like Joe is saying he probably has a better view, or I don't, it's baffling. And you see it, it's kind of trickling down into your daily life. And you can see that it's just I think, being in Singapore, it's a lot more cushioned for us here. Like I said, this all the problem before it actually after this, like, they're very intuitive about what's what's coming up in the next few months, or six months and midterm long term. But yeah, certainly, globally, you can you can hear it in all the sessions and webinars and any of the tech stuff that you attend. It's the it's the same tune, but it seems to be really lopsided. I don't have much knowledge of that, I wouldn't be able to say but it but it does come across as very lopsided lot of money in certain pockets, and completely erased from certain areas. Just a few weeks ago, yeah. Just just just a few weeks ago, the, the, because of the food commodities, right, so the people who produce the food people, the people who own the companies that sell food, have all become new billionaires. And and then on the other side, you got, you know, people moving into famine, and kind of like, Ah, god cycle, we're gonna, we're gonna finally get this sorted out. So if you got any thoughts, because I mean, even in your industry, you're seeing also, I mean, you see stuff. You saw the shipping prices going up before anybody else was noticing it in the supply chain mess. It was starting to get to sort of come come at us fairly quickly. I mean, you're saying some pretty interesting things. Yeah. So civil engineering, by definition, by definition is engineering projects that benefit civilization. So that generally tends to be infrastructure, roads, railways, airports, dams, but also sewage and piping and irrigation and things like that. So we kind of get the heads up on where, where government see things are going. That hasn't started to trickle down yet. I think we're heading for a hard reset on a few things. Joe, you were saying? Yeah, are we gonna go into a recession or not? I was speaking to a guy who, whose opinion I strongly value in Australia. And he said it In evitable, two to three years, it's inevitable. The question is how we react to it, as always, is it like, Oh, she'll be right. And it will, it will come back, we'll keep doing the same thing. The definition of insanity is you keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome. So, I think the impact here, the combination of the Russia Ukraine thing, the impact on the global economy and on the food supply chain, on the back of COVID, let's hope it forces as well as, as well as the extreme of weather events, which are impacting the global food, absolutely. supplies as well, because people are talking about the Ukraine more as the reason it's one part. But I do think that we need to have, I do think there needs to be some sort of a piece brokered very, very quickly, because millions and millions of people are already in extreme situations around the world. And that's going to increase. And it's not just personal, you know, for the for the wealthy countries, you know, people are going to suffer a paying more at the the tank or for their pastor, or not even being able to buy their favorite pastor, you know, millions and millions of people around the world, Philippines is one of the countries in Asia that's at the highest risk. They're their percentage of food imports, that really shocked me how high it was, versus having their own supplies of, you know, basics like rice, right. But they imported a lot of it from China and China, suffering from crop failures to do so. But when you have when you have vulnerable countries, they are really, really exposed to risk around anything to do with freight. And when you start seeing freight prices, double or triple overnight, you know, literally the the knock on effect to that it impacts absolutely everything. Absolutely everything. We've got a situation at the moment where we've got a small project and a country in Southeast Asia. So we've gone out we've got a shipping quotation for it and say, for example, a 40 foot containers 6000 bucks, we got the order, put the order on the shipping come they're like, no, no, no, that was last week's right. This record 7500. So we have to go back to the customer and say, Oh, he goes back to his client. You go, Okay, here's the new order. And we go back and say I want to place an order. That was last week. Right? It's now $9,000. So these guys are making out like bandits. Is it supply and demand? I'd like to think it supply and demand, I have a horrible feeling. There's a fair bit of profit and greed that drives it. I was reading about an acquisition of a ferry company that services between Australia and New Zealand apparently during COVID. It was used for a number of to deliver a number of things. May this company's financial reports. Light through the roof fourfold. So yeah, you're right, you start seeing those big, those big food companies, they're making fat promises, I'd like you said, I think we are heading for a hard reset. How hard that has to be. I think it will depend on how we handle ourselves within the next 12 months, unfortunately, yeah, I think the world is trying to figure out a better way to do things as well, like, we know like, speaking of food, right? In the US, one of the big things that happened during COVID Was the food processing companies were the ones that made a whole bunch of money. The farmers actually suffered as well. So that two ends of it with the consumer one and then the producer the source. They both suffered. And it was the sort of the middle system that profited. Right. But what I think that does is it puts pressure on it puts it puts innovative and entrepreneurial pressure on the society in general to create ways around that, which is why the rise of logistic I mean, shipping is what you're talking about before but Logistics is going to be the big thing that is going to help even everything out if we have a strong logistical system in the background that can join or can connect consumer to source, you're going to have a whole shift in the way that business has done. So like in the US. A lot of the farmers or some of the farmers anyway, have began to form collectives where they're doing their own meat processing, for instance. And going direct, you know, to consume or at least as direct as possible using you know, FedEx and everybody else to to get their meat to you. You know that there's going to be a shift because the pressure in the middle is going to make people want to figure out how do I do this instead? Right? I mean, for me I look at and again it's always an opportunity in the middle of all this I I'm a bit embarrassed to say that I always see an opportunity Whatever happens, inflation is going to be great for me and my business, right? Because it's going to make events very expensive to run, it's going to make all these things less probable it's going to be, you know, it's going to, it's going to perpetuate the problems that COVID made for the, for the events industry. And I work on the online space, right, so I'm providing an option, which is really going to be much less expensive than then running, you know, a full event at a hotel, with flights and everything else with the price of fuel and everything, you know, it works out that way. So there's a, there's a problem, there's a problem and the problem in the sense that people are going to figure ways around it, and people are going to land on their feet. That is kind of the general problem that we have isn't like, you know, we, we only begin to solve the big problems, we feel that we're completely cornered. And the reality is, a lot of people don't feel that way. You know, like, like you mentioned, the Philippines before we have, we have some close contacts in the Philippines and the from the poor part of town isn't like that the families of our helpers who, who used to work with us. And the interesting thing is, despite all the stuff that you hear about in terms of structural problems, and the challenges that we face for food and everything, they don't feel, they, they they're not, they don't feel aware of the problem, they're just facing life. Challenge. They're not they're not seeing a structural problem that's causing this, they're not seeing, you know, it's not all we think they're just dealing with life on a daily basis. So that's, that's really the challenge. And it's about, yeah, the people who are affected don't know how they're affected, which is affected. They don't know what you have to do to change how they're affected. Yeah. I was just gonna say the the luxury that was globalization, and you know, the global scale global now is moving down to localization. That's just one of one of the things which I have had, this was on a couple of YouTube videos, one of these guys he puts together like, something like the no show, but he puts together a different aspects of, you know, what the current reality is, and with the different perceptions of that reality from different people across across the globe, and in different nations and different nationalities are living in different places. But But exactly as you're saying, a lot of the people they don't even feel that hit, which we think is, is a big one is a big shift. I know back in back in India, like the farmers that have suffered, the the farmer suicide is like such a known thing. And we just sit back and think what the government's doing what the families are going through, because entire crops have gone. And that's like, it's really yours for them to rebuild that. Because of the you know, again, climate disruption, right, whether that's being flooded, and you know, the rise doesn't need that much water, it's been flooded, it's been raining, and the cities are really happy, because you've got this X amount of rain, and you really brilliantly, and then there's this food supply, completely cut back, and farmers in distress because of all that, so it's, it's looping and missing. But it's I don't know whether it's resilient. So it's just, that's how it is. But interestingly, so, Andrea, one of the articles that you sent, actually, our kids a lot. Do you know how interesting that is? I actually read it a couple of times, going back and forth. Because this is this is a theory is I mean, this is one guy who's actually written it. There's so many others who say the same, including some of our grandparents that have said, You think this is extreme poverty. Do you know why it was back in the 1800s? You guys are living in extreme poverty, people here are living way better lives than what they did in the 1800s. Anything this is, you know, the catastrophe of this isn't the the disaster as the climate disruption is? Do you know what it was back then? And I really like how can you even say this? So he's actually put it really well. And he's he's taking quotes from some of the economists from you know, back then, and the ones who are putting together reports now. And it's really quite, quite interesting, because when you look at it that way, I'm actually just reading off something what he is saying here, no mainstream climate models suggest a return to a world as bad as the one we had in the mining 50 To say nothing of 1150. So 1001 50, a year back then, was well so bad for virtually the entirety of human history that our ancestors shouldn't have made our lives possible, if not, so he's basically talking about whether, you know, the young couple says, should we even have kids anymore? Look at the climate crisis and look at the inflation and so on. So he's, you know, it's down that road, and that's where he's writing, saying that isn't really that bad, as we say. And then his his next paragraph says, I worry writing this that it will be taken as a dismissal After suffering climate change will unleash. But it's not. It's an appreciation of how bad our passports should basically, it should deepen our fury at how recklessly our future is being treated. So he is bringing it all together. But at the same time, he's making a huge point here, that what we think is poverty today is, you know, way, way better conditions for anyone on the planet than it was back in the 1700s 1600s. Whether it was to do with anything, not just parties, you know, abuse and so on. So I thought, like, good on him for writing it. But like, to me that it completely misses the point. He sort of talking about what what the climate scientists are predicting, which I think he's not. I don't think he's reading current climate science. So you know, the Great Barrier Reef bleached 91% of it was bleached. Just Just recently, right. That wasn't supposed to happen until 1.5. So it's already it's already gone. So we kill the Great Barrier reefs with warming. And so we're going to know Nino. But we've got an overdue El Nino coming up, right. And that's when the water is going to be hotter than it's been. So we've already had 91% bleaching in Alinea. And we've got an overdue El Nino. So kill life in the ocean. You don't have life on earth. You know, the water droughts, the Himalayas already past its tipping point. We're talking about the Alps, melting, droughts, extreme weather events, you know, all these sorts of stuff. So when he looks back at the past, and this is this is happening a lot at the moment, when you look back at the past, that the past was in a stable climate, the future is in an unstable climate. And so I actually found his opinion. If I was sitting down with Steve talking about having children now it'd be no way. No way. I look at my boys eyes now. And sometimes this despair overwhelms me when I look in their eyes, just wondering what it's going to be like for them. So yeah, I I wasn't in agreement with that pace at all, based on what I think some of it obviously makes sense, because it is what he's talking about in certain regards. But he's looking at a very macro, sorry, micro. So most of us, you know, statements and things that have come out of it is very isolated. It's not a macro view, from any angle, you can see the big picture is missing is clearly I think, you know, what it was back then, and the nature and the local food produced and everything else, not just expected during the day to put it together, you know, which which makes it possible, we were transporting what you don't have in your region, and get it from somewhere else, whether it's cabbage, or greens and stuff. But the big picture, and exactly, that's important, right? 50 million, those 50 million birds that eat those shrimp, and whatever else it was. So what does so when they have nowhere to go to eat? Do they die? 50 million birds die. And if they do die, what does that mean from from the places in the earth that they move back and forth between what dies because they're not doing their job in the in the in the ecosystem? So what what what does that kill? And that death? What does that kill? And that's where we are? We're at this. We're at this point of, you know, there's another story on the environment about this. There's, it's a flower in Nevada, where is it? Let me see if I can find it. It's called Timmins buckwheat in Nevada, and it grows in lithium soil. So basically, there's 10 acres of this flower over only in the world. So one guy in a bulldozer in an afternoon could make it extinct. But our need for lithium for renewable energy is so high that we're going to risk that now. A 10 acre flower, what's its contribution to the world? What's its contribution to ecosystems? If that tractor does take it out? What's the impact of that? Maybe that's when we can not suffer so much with just the grief of extinction. But what is the what is the ripple out and that's, we're at we're at the point of the ripple out, like in India and Pakistan, where we're hearing birds dropping out of the sky did the cows on the streets were dropping down dead because it was so hot? You know, this, this is starting to happen in the morning, the temperature increases, you know, birds and plants and animals can adapt to the speed of climate change. So they're just going to start dying out in massive numbers. What does that mean? You know, insects 70% We've lost you know, all that sort of stuff. Right? So we're on the so even is that even in six months time, I think that guy will go back and read that article and go, Oh, my God, I was naive. A lot. A lot of these solo ones are coming through now that you're talking about comparing it to the to the way it was. Yeah. I know it's been a while This year has been a tough one as far as coming to terms with the reality of really what's going on and how quickly it's escalating. And, you know, I know that people don't like it when I talk about it because it's depressing. But we've got to face up to it because we've got to get ready. We've got a human, there's the level of adaption that is required, and we're so far off like in Singapore, are you ready for the doomsday glacier to go? You know, or will Singapore be flooded? You know, what does that mean? You know, when you say Singaporeans are very protected, I mean, you can't protect yourself from nature, which I think is a good time to move into our theme for this week engineering, climate change with our expert, engineer, Mr. Steve Johnson. I'm gonna hand it over to you. I'll put a few caveats out there by no means an expert, by no means an expert. So we were talking about this the other day, and Andrew and I, but I was talking about one of the places that I visited in the UK, growing up in London on the south coast is a place called Berlin gap. And it's the famous chalk cliffs. And a lot of times, it's actually what they use, when they're trying to portray the White Cliffs of Dover, they actually do the Berlin gap. And there's seven of these cliffs, and they're called the Seven Sisters. So it's a beautiful walk. And then one year, we went there, and there's a hotel, and there's a little set of sort of like cottages and a little sort of convenience store that's in one of these valleys, and the siren goes outside Berlin gap. And it turns out that the, the action of the waves was eroding. And what's happened is, they're made of chalk. And so chalk is from a previous time four or 5 million years ago, signifies where a coral reef was. So chalk is a very specific type of calcium carbonate is a very specific type of limestone. But what happens is naturally, within this feature, there were these natural valleys that were eroded by streams running towards the ocean. And these valleys would get filled with soil. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise, soil is much softer than rock, so the soil erodes. And this particular place was in a valley. And so it's getting eaten away. That's an example of nature, just doing what nature does. That's, that's not climate change. And it was the people who own the hotel and the houses were sort of campaigning and saying, Hey, save the gap, etc, etc. The way that it would be if I knew then what I know now, the way that you would, you would preserve those properties is you would use a rock armoring technique at the base of the cliff, and that would basically deflect the energy, but all you're doing is kicking the can down the road. So there's some things you can change. And there's some things you can't, we've always had natural fluctuations in, in temperatures. And in climatic conditions, there's famous pictures of people ice skating on the River Thames, there's, there's, there's discussions of folks used to drive vehicles across it, you know, obviously, one of the theories around the dinosaurs dying out is around the Ice Age, as well as an impact, all these things that kind of come in, so there is natural kind of changes and fluctuations that happens within the world. Fast forward. So like the last 200 years, we've, as a species we've developed and we've had some pretty intelligent folks that have engineered us out of these situations, you know, and I was speaking to someone three or four weeks ago, which is really kind of got what maybe got thinking about this topic, and they're like, I was talking about climate change and the impact and the combination of climate change with a, with a with a conflict happening over here. And a is it going to cause a global recession, etc, etc. And, and this guy says to me, says, You know what, we'll figure it out. You know, because maybe if we can land somebody on the moon, you know, we can do it. You know, if we can build the Hoover Dam, we can do it. And so there's been this sort of, not reticence, but I think there's been a sort of overarching comfort feeling that somewhere, we've got super smart dudes that can design this out of anything. I gotta tell you, newsflash. Everything that we're seeing right now is that field is changing super rapidly, super rapidly. And the way we normally are the way folks that are much more intelligent than myself have made a career of engineering, the way things are designed so a road or a bridge or something we use, is we use certain sort of design coats. That dictates how far we drive piles into the ground until we reach something solid that we can anchor a structure on. So for example, in Hong Kong, some of those big buildings on on the city site that some of those piles go down over 200 meters, you think about that as 200. That's a long, long way to go. You go to other places, and you can literally pour concrete for a foundation literally on the ground that you've just dug over with a spade. But we use these design codes. And what we do is we use historical data. And so we use a one in 25 year event, or a one in 50 year event or one in 100 year event. And what that means is because that's something that's kind of got bounced around a fair bit the last couple of years, what that means is we go back through history, and we look at the very worst, the very first flood levels that have been recorded in the last 100 years. And then there's an engineering decision that's taken. And it's also blended with an economic decision. It's like, okay, we can stand one of these events every 100 years. So we're going to build our structure or our road or airport or our dam, or whatever it may be to withstand everything except one time, in every 100 years. And so, in February 2020, I had to go on a business trip to Sydney, when we were doing some work in some tunnels. And by the time I landed, we were told we couldn't go anywhere near the tunnels because they were flooded, because they had the worst, you know, this collision of events had happened, they had experienced a one in 100 year storm event. And everyone's like, wow, you know, it's terrible, etc. So this is February 2020. I was back in Sydney, two months ago. And they've right at the time, by complete coincidence, they experienced their second one in 100 year event. So we have two events that happened two years apart, that should have only happened every 100 years. And so as engineers, you're always taught to observe and adjust. And so we need to start adjusting back, you know, what is the one in 100 year storm event look like? Is it really now or one in 10 year event, the data in New South Wales would suggest it's a one in two year event. But we have to constantly observe and, and there's certain methods you could have. So for example, in tunneling, which is incredibly expensive, there is a very effective technique, which is called the observation technique, when you're going through soft soils. And the it raises you, you place the amount of reinforcement, and that is that changes in thickness and strength, depending on what you observe. As the TBM, the tunnel boring machine is cutting. And there was a and it's a it's a great technique, but you have to keep observing. And unfortunately, there was a very developed country that was driving a tunnel underneath a pretty, pretty well known expressway. And the two guys that were supposed to be observing, it turns out fell asleep. And what happened was, it led to a catastrophic collapse. And unfortunately, six people died. So if you take your eye off the ball, and you stop observing, you're you're always going to be caught out. Now, the trouble of what's happening now is in the last sort of 10 years, we literally can't keep up. So it seems that the climate and climatic conditions and the planet, it's they seem to be changing, it seems to be changing so quickly, that the codes need to be constantly reject refreshed, revisited for for want of a better word. At the same time, we have booming populations, and everybody likes to live in certain places. So Australia, I think is 98% of the population lives on 4% of the land, everyone wants to kind of be in the same area. But what that does is that that intensifies the pressure around that area. So Australia, for example, has more than enough rainfall, more than enough rain that falls that can cover those there should not be any any droughts. The trouble is it all falls in the wrong place. It doesn't fall on that 3% of the landmass where 95% of the population are actually living. Singapore also learned a pretty tough lesson. When we were living there and I want to say probably 2013 When those big floods came through the PU B and Singapore does an outstanding and stellar job. The drains that you see that run between the massive roads aplicativo highway access He says, some of the most robust you can ever see. The trouble is, is when you concrete and when you when you develop so much land, it becomes a double whammy. Not only are you producing more, more water and more waste, what you're doing is you're taking away the natural environment where rainwater would naturally infiltrate and recharge our water table levels. Instead, it falls on a sheet of concrete, which could be a condominium parking lot. And then the water is quickly scuttled off because it's built on an angle into a drain, and then it goes into the drain. And I think the PDB we're kind of caught out. There was a quite a nice hotel, they had some pictures of these Bentley's and Porsches sort of bobbing around in the basement carpark under like a metre and a half of water. So as we drive towards, you know, how we develop, we really have to be careful because people always want defacto people always want to bargain. They want, you know, they want value for money. You know, they want as much bang for their buck from one of the better word. You're looking at houses or structures and stuff. We're now seeing so much more built on marginal land. You know, so floodplains, for example, there's a reason why we haven't built on floodplains. It's because they flood. That's why they called flood plains. Right? Then we put a mark housing estate on it, right, which has like 2400 Solar structures on it. And it's it's the dream for everybody. But it's on a floodplain. So the only, the only thing I wanted to try and bring to this very intelligent discussion that happens every week is, you know, we have to keep up. But the way the world seems to be moving right now, right now, it seems we either can't keep up, or we're unwilling to take hard decisions, because there is not some super brainy set of folks that are sitting there going, you know, what, we've got the answer to this. And it's cloud seeding, or it's this or it's that, or whatever it may be, we are unless we take some action, pretty darn quick, we can kind of feels like we're all walking into a bit of a buzzsaw. And all the engineering in the world is unfortunately, not going to change it. So I didn't want that to be too much of a sobering sort of topic or interest in reality. Yeah. So as an industry, and I know, you haven't worked as an engineer for many years, but I know that you keep up to it. And Steve also keeps me on my toes with my climate research, if I share an idea with him that he thinks is sounds too outlandish. He makes me work harder to make sure that I'm, I know what I'm talking about. And I love the logic and the practicality of his mindset, which drives me well, but one of the things that I was listening to is the tradition of engineering and what, what and how you learn. And you build up the sort of mindset around, you build for 100 year event. And here we are we two years worth 100 year events. So what is when you look at the 100 year event within the context of the New World, we don't have that moment that the great disaster that could be factored in. So is is is the industry transforming? Is the education transforming? I mean, I don't know if you know this, or if you're talking to people, are they aware? I mean, should they have to be aware of it? Are they are they starting to move in their thinking? Are they still hanging on to the old way? Do you know, I think that some of the most intelligent folks I've ever met have been designers and true, true true engineers, guys that hold responsibility for multi billion dollar projects. And if they get it wrong, a lot of folks die as well. Yeah. They are moving, but to a certain extent, it's being stymied politically, especially if you have a country which keeps swapping the power. I mean, Singapore is a shining example of what can be achieved if everybody is on board. You go to other countries where every four years there's a change of power. And what happens is the new people that got voted in spend the first two years blaming the previous folks for not me, they've got no money so the things that they've promised that they're voting ticket they've got in on they are you know, what we do know is as bad as this because this bunch of buffoons, you know, have bankrupted the state, so we can't do this. And then they spend the next two years campaigning to try and get another four years of of absolute impotency whilst they're actually in power, so you need stability and you need almost like cross party sort of partners and like, this is This is how it needs to be, you know, without wanting to sound too romantic or too wishy washy. You know, this is this is good for this is good for humanity, whether you're on the right on the left, far right, far left, smack in the middle, extreme or whatever. So the answer to the question is slowly, slowly. But, you know, there needs to be some strong decisions taken. And so basic stuff like, where we will allow things to be built, you know, new airports, bits and pieces like that, you know, and are they really necessary? The interesting thing with caveat is, how much is Will that change our working patterns? Some people seem to think that 60% of of office working folks will never go back to the office. So then the bigger question is, well, hang on a sec, why do we need this light rail system that we're about to spend $5 billion on if the commuter traffic is gonna go down by 60%. So it's a changing, it's a changing time, the the only point that I wanted to make is, it's accelerating. And it's coming at us, like harder and faster than I think we could have ever imagined. And we would be fools if we didn't get our head out of the sand and start addressing it. And someone's got to take some tough decisions. Yeah. Yeah, globally. Yeah. Can I ask a question? Because you because you said that in the last 10 years, and how you do look at things as you observe, and then there's adjustments made policy observations, right. So you said there are a lot of events. I mean, it's been completely different than last 10 years, and you're not able to keep up the engineering side of things. And when you when you see those events happening, you know what it meant to be one in 100? Like the example you just gave for that trip that you made pre COVID? And post COVID, you know, with flooding? But it was meant to be a one in 100? Or is it a one and a 10? And then it happened to two years? Again, how many of those in the past 10 years, would you say? I mean, just interesting they would be? They could be just a one off? It's not really a one in two years or one in five years. But it was just a one off that it happened within two years again? Is it none of those? Or is it a repeat pattern that you've seen in the last 1015 years? It's, it's an accelerating pattern. And this is just from the visibility on the projects that I've seen. We worked on a bridge in Bangladesh. And I'm there was a UK designer, the eminent British designer. And I liaised with them, because I happen to be living in London sort of around the time, and there, they were looking at a one in 200 year event. But then they would apply a factor of safety of four. So if they if they decided the bridge needed to be 50 meters high, to make sure it never got flooded within 200 years, then they would then multiply that by four. So in theory, they were designing to a one in 1000 year event. Some would say that's extreme, because that obviously comes with the cost, additional concrete construction time, etc, etc. So I remember at the time, everyone was like, you know, I mean, that's like really kind of alarmist, you know, I mean, and they actually had a environmental engineer in the room, and a hydrologist and a hydro geologist in the room. And they was, it's the first time I've ever heard it, they're like, Well, based on the data we're seeing, that might not be a bad idea. In the end, as with most things, it was a compromise. And they agreed on a factor of safety of two, so they only built it double. I tell you what, I bet those designers are sitting there right now, going best decision we ever made. I can't put a number to Arista, because I just haven't got the data. What I can say is it seems to be happening quicker and faster. And it seems to be happening more often. Certainly in the last sort of 10 years or so. That I have to admit I've been fortunate enough to be in it around in and around big engineering projects for the last 25 years plus. Yeah, yep. Scary stuff. Certainly, as to Joe, did you want to ask Steve a question? I was just just observing something in terms of like, this part of the, the impact of observing stuff, so you tend to tend to become a bit more aware of it, that there will always be a bit more like the there is a principal in in in magic, for instance, or HD statistics in general. If you flip a coin, the odds are it's going to be you know, 5050 It's supposed to be that that kind of thing, right? But when you when you flip a coin 10 times, what frequently happens is you'll actually have a 7030 kind of a number. That's actually what the reality of it usually is. And these these things about the one and 100 things. It could be. I mean, it's conceivable that things as long as there is a kind of a cycle going on as well, that we that we've cycled into that area where we're going to have that one and 100 likelihood, the possibility of the 100 events being more, more more more prevalent. So there is a, there is a, there is a challenge, in that, in that in that way of thinking. So like we usually do, like a lot of people just go like this, this this this thing that is not supposed to happen. It's just happened, therefore, therefore, it's the proof of it. Sometimes we need to figure out, I was actually I'm sorry about its bruschetta department with my thoughts regarding this. But I was actually thinking about, you know, engineers, right, we should have engineers working on different engineers with different kinds of things. We shouldn't have them. I mean, it it's, it's, again, the great Singapore miracle, right, the way the way, they've got government running here. It's got engineers trying to solve all kinds of other things that are not engineering. And I think we need more of that, I think I think we need that kind of ingenuity, that kind of mindset being applied to the problems that we have right now. I mean, if you were, if you engineered the problem, the garden situation, or you in the US, you'd figure something else out, it would be a different solution than what we have right now. Which is not an engineering solution. It's a political solution. I think, I think the climate needs to be engineered at a larger scale that that the world needs to figure out a way. We need to figure out a way that we can engineer the solution rather than try to work on the politics of it. Because I think, I think there is there is a way that there is a way that we can get people to do the right thing. And it's how do we get it across, I'm thinking of a very simple idea that I that I had a long time ago when I was on radio. And it was this thing about you know, in heavy rain in Singapore used to be whenever the rain came down, everybody put on the hazard lights. And so when it's raining, you just see all these cars driving with as it lights, which sort of kind of makes sense, everyone, but I just said look, if you all have your hazard lights on, no one knows where you're going, because your signals aren't available signal left and right, right. And I made the case on radio, we just happen to have quite a popular radio show. And I made the case on radio. And I swear I made the change in Singapore so that now in Singapore, when it's raining, that doesn't happen. People turn on their lights, and they still use that signals to show people where they're going to go. But the Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Can I cut you off? One second? Yeah, please, please go ahead. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head when he said Corporation, because it can't be done. And, and that's a really good example of what can be achieved in somewhere like Singapore, you know, where enough people kind of go, You know what, this is a good thing. So we're all going to kind of move, move, move together. What we need is you need every government department in the room, right? And going, right, this climate change stuff not going away. And healthcare will go well, what's it still with me, it's like, well, unless we get this fixed, you're gonna run out of budget in the first one month of every fiscal year, so buckle up, buddy, and join the conversation. So we're gonna take some of the healthcare budget, and we're gonna put it over here. Because if we do that, there'll be less people that get have to go into hospital things like that. Sorry, I was just, I was just agreeing with you. 100%. But I was thinking about it in terms of like engineering the solution, because what I did was I had to try and engineer how I was going to get this across to an audience try to figure out how do I how do I package the message that I could engineer the change? Because the prevalent there was, there was no government policy, and he wanted to try and drive this because it wasn't the thing. I mean, I've had this kind of impact, I think, in Singapore ever so slightly, because there was this other time as well, that the the, the LPA and the minister, we were doing home visits, right. And, and it's not that I am original with the idea I just said, you know, we always had this trouble with people not following the rules on the road, like, you know, this, this lens, you know, not being obeyed. And I said, Yeah, you know, people aren't going to people people might not follow rules and you put down but they don't argue with physics. So, let's just put barriers and you know, we had we had barriers. I don't know whether I had something to do with that. But we change those situations where there was traffic, you know, that needed to be directed. We just put areas and they will not they won't really, you know, like the they will destroy your cargo bag into them. But you can see that they're there. And you will do what you need to do to drive the right way. But it's engineering, that kind of a message that helps to get it across so that people can go like, yeah, I understand. I mean, you know that the problem with things like the gun lobby in the US, they've come up with some really good stuff. You know, it's not guns that kill people, it's people. That's really good stuff. From a PR point of view, that is really good stuff. Because it it. It eats into it. Yeah, it's good. So we need to work out that that's the kind of thing that we need to work on. Because this whole this whole, I mean, what I what I was thinking about just now when we heard the different things like the, the carbon bomb and all these different ideas, that's a great idea what we need to we need to get it out in such a way that I can tell it successfully to somebody else. You know, and that is the real challenge. Because as much as I'm in this circle, and I'm gonna say I heard that phrase for the first time today on the show, and I heard the other phrase about the the wet wet bulbs, bulbs. Yeah. So I've been, I've been talking about it for months, you know, so obviously, it's finally gone in. Yeah. But then that's one of the things that I'm constantly trying to do is work out how do I get this message across in a way that people can hear it? That's the question I'm always asking, am I doing and I'm constantly challenging myself, well, if I'm not doing it the right way, I need to work out a new way of doing it. And but you know, very difficult thing, because it's a hard message that people don't want to listen to, then I go there, a little bit of that, take that away, I don't want to talk about it, I don't want to talk about it. And I need people to hear it, so that my children have a future. So I'm really passionate about the message. But I'm also really aware of how do I tell it in a way that people can listen to it. And Steve knows, not not just your story, just like Joe was saying, you know, the narrative, a lot of the folks the words climate change, and has become so you know, they've become very immune or completely lost that sensitivity to it, it's just become a thing, when you connect it to an outcome, and change the narrative where it like you're saying people kill people, that's a brilliant piece of you know, getting the message right, getting the message heading home. So we changed the narrative in some forms where it's outcome related, and switch that. And I think a lot of folks are actually looking at that, because a lot of influencers and all in that, in that segment, I'm talking on influences when we're talking about segments are changing that, including your child stealing, and all. And so many just think from a climate change perspective, like the guns argument that Joe referenced, I think a perfect example, is a completely different thing, right? So I don't think there's ever been anything more challenging to communicate than what's going on in the climate. Nothing is and there's nothing that even comes close. And there's nothing you can compare it to. So, you know, there's no example that you can use, there's no framework you can use, it's just and it's not even a case of people are bored of hearing about it. It's like this is just starting to really starting to impact everybody right now. And it's gonna get worse and worse and worse, and people are gonna go, Oh, I remember those people were talking about this, like 10 years ago, wish we'd listened to them then. So rather than doing that, I'd like to work out how do we get them to listen to us now? And as the young lady in France, is it that style that's gonna get people paying attention? Maybe. I mean, Greta was obviously one of the big stars of the show, but she, she's got so many people who hate her, you know, so in some ways, she's almost, she's almost not a good asset for the climate movement anymore. Because she sparks something so horrible in so many people, that, you know, if anytime I share something that she does, there's people that jump on an attacker, and they have ever since she was a young girl, and I find that really interesting. So it's an interesting challenge. And it's one I'm trying to work out how to solve but So Steve, no, unfortunately, all I was gonna say was you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I think what I think what will something radical will shake things up, you know, and it will be a government somewhere saying, right? If you guys aren't listening about conserving electricity and conserving water, then what's going to happen is every week, you're gonna have no electricity and no water for four hours. See how that feels. You know, and it can be controlled, obviously, you know, health care, it's, you know, facilities, they obviously have a consistent flow pattern, all the rest of it. And I tell you, what, if people were to get uncomfortable, I mean, where we live, we have power outages, unfortunately common, especially this time of year. And every time it happens, I'm like, dammit, I'm gonna buy a generator gonna put it in because it's horrible. It usually happens is on a battery pack for a business trip as it happened two weeks ago, by the way, which was a lot of fun. So I'm packing in the dark, and I'm dripping, because it's like a million degrees. But if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. And they will take it will be, it will be a government likes like Singapore's government that says, you know, what, if you guys can't handle that, if you guys can't handle the resources that you have, we're going to show you what the future looks like. That could be rolled out as a shining light. And you could you can do that in Asia, right? But it might mean what am I one of my lines is we decided to change or nature decides for us either way, a decision will be made, right? To me, that's, to me, that's the essence of what's coming at us. And right now we're not deciding to change, but we need to wrap up 111 piece of a new maybe a replacement for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard will be the capital rights hearing in which is going to be which started last night and Trump is being accused of an attempted coup. And even his daughter has said that he she didn't support his willingness to not to to not accept the outcome of the election. So that's going to be coming up there's lots of other stuff coming on. What are you reading watching listening to being distracted by Well, I mean with regard to this particular thing was the fact that Fox has decided not to cover the the trial or the whatever it was called the the event live. So you know, it's gonna be it's always going to be fed back to your audience in in in a filtered and processed the way Yeah, so anyway, what I've what I've been watching, I watched I watched the number one show on Netflix, the number one movie on Netflix, and I also was the worst movie I've seen in a long time. It Oh, no, no revolution was great. I liked I liked that movie interceptor is the number one movie, at least it was in Singapore anyway. And it's featuring was seen as one of those movies, right? Well, why does this movie exist, and it bit by bit, it sort of began to land. It's produced, executive produced by Hemsworth, Chris, Chris Hemsworth. And the lead is his wife. So that's how that movie came to be. It's not the most compelling of scripts, a lot of, you know, logic holes in it. But there was enough production and nothing's happening, and it got there and it was marketed and then became number one, and I've been warning everyone not to watch it since. It's called the scepter. Yeah, I'd watch it just for Chris Hemsworth. But apparently, you will get naked. Sorry, no. Spoilers. Spoiler alert, you're gonna see crims Chris Hemsworth look the way he does when he's not preparing for a movie role. That's, that's all I'm gonna give you as a as a as a as a heads up on that. Like me, Andrea. Good enough, good enough on a dose. Alright, reached. Me I have just started on the three different things that I'm wanting to learn for a while. One is a traditional Indian dance. It's called cutback and I'm starting with some painting, which I had I painted quite a few pieces which are in my home currently, but I've lost touch so something I wanted to do during COVID and I'm just going to get into it now. So finishing that the next thing and also an instrument I'm looking for drums someone to teach me because my son got me hooked to it but that's that's all the stuff that I'm doing. What sort of drums Yeah, I don't know it's it's the the one with the not mine pieces is it? Yeah, have just opened it once. I actually got something on Gumtree the other day, which was selling like 400 bucks and I'm like, we've got to get this like sounds like we there's no space, you've got to get that really little thing you know where you can just I said doesn't give the same feeling though. So you've got the little ones but I really want to learn because I play some some Indian instruments which are different, you know, because they're the traditional ones, but they were there with beats that you can try my hand with the drums and I was able to buy something cheap as 30 bucks sounds pretty, pretty good value for you guys to use it for a while. I can tell you my electronic drum does a much smaller thing for much, much less is a couple of months. Stay. So I'm not gonna steal your thunder and tell everyone what we're watching. Instead I came across an interesting, although probably not so important news article about two hapless workers that were working in a Mars Wrigley factory, in a place called Elizabeth town in Pennsylvania. They fell into a tank of molten chocolate. And I was expecting it to read as in light, you know, and there was danger and they melted. You know, I'm kind of envisaging like, you know, Oompa Loompas and stuff and Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. They fell in there, they said emergency services arrived on the scene within two hours. Apparently, these folks didn't get out for six hours. And finishes off with something like at this point, I think I realized it was written a little bit tongue in cheek, it finished off with thankfully there was no, there was there was no injuries, except an immediate onset of type two diabetes and the fact they both gained 100 pounds in an afternoon. Not a bad way to spend six hours I think swimming around the chocolate. I know our boys would like it. And maybe they turn it off. Although I'd say I'm still being boring. So we mentioned earlier, we did watch the original Top Gun after Philip has said, but and then I can't remember what else we've done other than watch the crown again. If we watched anything else my you know, my memory has gone safe. With nobody watched that. I can't remember mine is gone as well. Thanks very much for putting me on the spot for you're trying to think about what a terrible partner I am sorry about that. Please forgive me. Yeah, but I'm sorry, but I'm still enjoying the Queen, and just having just just the break from anything serious. That's that's all I'm looking ever looking for. And some of the girly stuff that I was watching when Steve Steve was away finish. So the crown crown is filling that hole for me. But I do you know, I'm listening painting. I've always wanted to learn the guitar, why don't I just do it, you know, to sit down and start using this time for doing something more creative like that. So there's a very interesting, interesting site that they've been popping into. It's called studio.com. So it's not, it's not a masterclass.com. It has a wide range of lessons, you get up one and you get all of it. There's another one called studio.com. And what they do is they work on classes where you can learn things like singing, songwriting, and David Lane's teaching magic as well. But there were differences that it's a 30. It's a 30 day course, is it like the different things you're supposed to do from these these days to this days? And then exercises and peer review and stuff like that. And that might be something that could be quite interesting in terms of musical experience. They've got the Yeah, they got the Pentatonix teaching how to do vocal arrangements and stuff like that. And I mean, really well qualified people, Charlie Puth few books. But yeah, he's there as well. Alright, I'll have a look. All right, we should wrap it up. Okay. So next week is our very final show for the season. We don't know when we're going to come back. It's going to be sometime late August, early September. Right, Joe? Steve, thank you so much for joining us, I think. I think it's really important to for people to listen to the perspective that you bring as an engineer and like, if you're not, if you're not linked to somebody who works in your field, you're never gonna get that perspective. And I think it's, that's why I really wanted you to come and join the NAMM show. And I know that you're gonna run off and go and get the boys and then I've got to run off and go and get them afterwards. But it's really it's a really valuable a layup, I suppose on top of what we've been talking about for a long time. And, and you don't sit there and agree with me on the climate just because you're married to me, you, you think in your own way. And you you follow a different party conclusions. But I think just in the last few months, I think our conclusions have started to merge. And we're both more aligned in sort of what we think we need to do as a family moving forward. Right. So thanks, now. Well, thank you so much for finally inviting me on. Now. I know I kind of feel like I'm on an equal pedestal to Joel Gustin. You've, you've had an open invite, but you've kept saying no, but you're actually you say no, because you've got to go and take care of the kids so that I can do this. So and Arista, thank you so much for coming back. You are with us. I think it was just before Christmas last year, right? Is our best. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's really interesting. Actually, I liked Steve's bit was short and snappy, but as such, I had no clue at all. So I've actually written down some stuff Very fascinating because you because you can actually see it up close and personal, really of what? Because because of all the data that you guys probably have, that's always asking, like, how do you put it all together? You can see the acceleration we what we read in the news is what you see probably in your papers and things like that, you know, and things are drawn across across the globe, right when they come up with oh, this was supposed to be one in 50 years, and it's just happened like three times. Last Five Years. After we have fun traveling together. We really Yeah. It's, it's great. I learned about what is in Gamble's when we first met, I didn't even know what it was. So yeah, well, I've learned lots about geology since we've met and I love it. But anyway, Joe, Thanks, darling. And everyone said goodbye and I will end the broadcast. All right, next week for the Phenom a bye