Why we need to become more exploratory to get to NetZero

Grant 'Axe' Rawlinson is the human powered explorer and he recently posted on LinkedIn that he was speaking at an event in Singapore, talking about the need for organisations to become more exploratory in their journeys towards NetZero, versus waiting for all the data to make perfect decisions. According to Axe, it’s time to get out there and start experimenting, embracing the unknown.

I wanted to understand more about his thinking, so we had a wonderful conversation about the importance of being exploratory in solving the biggest challenges we face to achieve NetZero. We talked about so much more, including the adventures he’s already undertaken (these are extreme challenges very few people have the courage to undertake), as well as what’s coming up next, on his boat called “Little Donkey.” 

Finally, I found it very insightful to hear that most of the clients he works with are interested in one thing: how he dealt with failure and literally got back in the water, especially as he’s talking about his experiences in one of the world’s most dangerous and unpredictable oceans. 

A great conversation, worth listening too and sure to inspire. We need to take massive risks, there is no data to show the path, failure must be embraced and it’s time to adopt an explorers mindset and get to work. 

To get in touch with Grant

Check out Grant’s Website for more stories Motivational Speaker Singapore | Powerful Humans | Grant 'Axe' Rawlinson (powerful-humans.com)

He’s here on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/grantrawlinson/ 

His book From Peak to Peak: The Story of the First Human-Powered Journey from the Summit of Mt Ruapehu in New Zealand to the Summit of Aoraki/ Mount Cook : Rawlinson, Grant: Amazon.sg: Books

To get in touch with me, Andrea Edwards

Websites https://andreatedwards.com/ and https://uncommon-courage.com/ 

My book Uncommon Courage, An Invitation mybook.to/UncommonCourage

And the workbook mybook.to/UncommonCourageAction

And my Facebook Group Uncommon Courage https://www.facebook.com/groups/442905877003333 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

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Hello, my lovelies. It's Andrea Edwards, welcome to uncommon courage, where we talk about the big stuff that's going on in the world and hopefully make a little bit more sense of it. It's intense times right now. And when it comes to the climate crisis, there's a lot that we need to be paying attention to. Unfortunately, the news that's coming out is under the radar when it should be front of the news cycle. Today, I'm going to introduce you to grant X Rawlinson grant is someone I've known for a few years now he's a great guy, his focus is all about human powered exploration in he's been to some of the most extreme places on Earth, whether in the ocean, or at the top of mountains. He's using his human power, something he discovered as a young child to achieve extraordinary things. But the reason I wanted to talk to him, he recently posted on LinkedIn that he and said, if we are going to get to net zero, we need an Explorer's mindset. And I really wanted to understand what that meant. So that's what we're doing here today in the podcast, understanding the importance of the explorers mindset, and how that can help us get to net zero. So let's get stuck in. And here he is. Grant X Rolison. Welcome. Hi, Andrea, how are you today? I'm good. I'm good. I'm super stoked. You agreed to come and join me? Yeah. Well, it's lovely. And thank you. It's a it's a privilege to be here chatting with you today. You're gentlemen. No question about it. So before we even begin what what I really want to talk to you about today, I think there'll be so many people out there fascinated by what you've actually achieved so far in your life. You know, I talk about you with my husband, often you're one of those extreme adventurers or explorers and you do things that most people haven't got the guts to do. So tell us about what you've done so far on that on that side, and then we'll get into your professional side later. Well, I'm I grew up in a very small rural environment in New Zealand on a sheep farm, I went to school with, with nine other children and my whole school for them were my brothers and sisters. So it was a very small environment, but in terms of people, but a wonderful environment in terms of the outdoors and mother nature and, and, you know, having this huge farm to live on, basically. And I always loved adventure and from a very early age on the farm, and I especially like paddling my my boat on the pond, I like riding my bicycle and running around. I was never let that into like engines and horses and that kind of thing. I like using my own human power. And that really has transferred into what has become my purpose in life. And my purpose in life is to make exploratory human powered journeys through the more remote areas of our planet, which contribute to a brighter future for our planet. And so over the course of the last 25 years, together with my teams, we've walked across countries with cycled across continents, we've rode across many seas, and we've climbed many of the world's tallest mountains, all by human power, small, lightweight and child teams. And it's been an incredible journey, which is definitely not over yet. I don't know how your wife puts up with it. And we're going to talk about your next journey, which is coming up soon. But I think you know, a lot of people look at what you do. And they think, well, I could never do anything like that. But I think the courage to go out there and do things that push you to your limit, which could be different, you know, for everyone, I think we were all capable of doing it. As long as we put ourselves out there on the edge, right, in some form or another in our life. It's the place where amazing growth happens, right? I couldn't agree more. And I think the critical thing when it comes to pushing yourself is really is really the reason why you are pushing yourself. Why do I push myself because it's my purpose to make remote exploratory human powered journeys. I completely understand when people say, that's crazy, why would you want to push off on that tiny little boat to row for, you know, 4000 kilometers, through very remote parts of the world. I understand if they don't get it. And I would never try and force them to do I don't believe in forcing people to step outside of their comfort zone to do things which they see no point in. The real trick here is finding that motivation as to why why do you want to do this? And that's like the Holy Grail to me, Andrea? A bit like you seem to have found your purpose, you know, in what you're doing in social media and promoting these wonderful causes to make the planet a better place. I can see from the outside it looks like you're very purpose driven. That's what gives you the motivation to do that. Yeah, absolutely. No purpose is everything right? He's showing up for a reason not to showing up. Absolutely. And, and there's a lot of that going on. Okay, so then professionally I know that you've you brought a lot of what you've done in the past into your into your professional work now so can you just tell us what you're doing cuz you look like you're really busy which is awesome. I'm really happy to say that I basically was in the corporate world for 17 years up until 2016, where I felt like a bit of a schizophrenic because I was there, but I wasn't there. I was there, I was there in body, but I wasn't there in mind. And I really wanted to align my life more closely with my life purpose, which is to make these human power journeys. And I started to think, you know, I just, I didn't want to be in the corporate world anymore. And I always like, I like, I value my independence and creating things independently as well. So I decided to go into into business, I set up a speaking and and facilitation business, where I've really taken my adventures, and I've packaged them into learning journeys for corporate teams, specifically around the lens of decision making, and how business teams can make more effective decisions and work more effectively together in very complex environments. And my timing, just by luck was great, because there never has been a more complex environment than we have in the last few years. Yeah, there's never been a better time, right, the world's in a very much a state of turmoil on so many fronts. And a lot of what I'm reading from a climate perspective is, a lot of the things that are happening right now, today, this month, is, you know, this year weren't expected until 2050. You know, that's sort of, I suppose it's sitting heavy with me that that reality, it's something I've known, you know, I think I've designed my whole life with the knowledge that this time would come. And you know, people might be surprised by that. But I've been keeping an eye on it for such a long time now. And so my sense of urgency, that's why I'm doing so much more now than I've ever done is because I'm communicating a sense of urgency, because my advice to people as a social leader is don't do too much. And I don't know if you've noticed, I'm doing more than I've ever done. It's all linked to a sense of urgency. And we all need to be doing what we can. And that's why I wanted to invite you today, because I saw the other day on LinkedIn that you were speaking at an event, and you were talking about how organizations need to become more exploratory in their journeys towards Net Zero, not wait for the data to make perfect decisions, but to get out there and start experimenting and stepping into the unknown. And that really obviously caught my attention because it wasn't something that I thought you were talking about. So I was delighted to see that you were and I just wanted to get a sense of what are you talking about? What's the core message, welcoming our listeners, sort of, you know, really take it on board for themselves. I spoke at the CDP event, CDP is a not for profit charity, that runs this global disclosure system, basically taking reporting organizations, you know, environmental impacts. And so they had an award ceremony here in Singapore two weeks ago, and there were some very big hitters at that awards ceremony, we're talking about him as the Monetary Authority of Singapore, and some some very large property development organizations who were there as well. And they were basically, you know, that they have this disclosure system, they've got 1000s of organizations who publicly disclosed for them. And once a year, they award the companies who have done the best in terms of managing their environmental impact. So in a nutshell, that's what this ceremony wasn't they invited me along to speak there, because of my, my experience, you know, in the in mother nature and making these human power journeys and to, to give some messages around it. So it was really fascinating because they had a panel, and I listened to, you know, some of the some of the investors who were there as well, and they were talking about when banks when organizations are lending money when investors are out there looking now there's this huge shift. There's this huge importance put on looking at organizations, you know, triple bottom lines instead of just profit, you know, what about the people on the planet and the other things as well. So I was listening to all that. And it was it was different perspectives, because there was investors, and then there was, there was banks, and there's a Monetary Authority of Singapore news, there was different perspectives being thrown around. And someone actually brought up the, I can't remember who it was, but they said, you know, really look at the data with the decisions you're going to make and try and make good data driven decisions. And that really struck me because in my talk, I already talked about being exploratory, being exploratory is experimentation, it's about taking a step into the unknown. It's about trying new things. From my perspective, you know, there is no handbook, there is no manual at this particular time. For any of us, even at a personal level, let alone an organization or a you know, a huge organization multinational level, in terms of telling us how to get to, let's say, net zero or more sustainable or whatever terminology you want to use. There isn't a manual there. So telling people to be really data driven, can be a little bit counterproductive at this time. I really think the mindset that we need to develop is to become more exploratory. And when you're exploratory, there is little data to go on to make these decisions, you're going to have failures, you're going to have setbacks, because it's about experimentation, it's going to cost you in the short term, at least, it's going to cost your resources, it's going to cost you time, it's going to cost you money to try out these things. And they're not all going to be as successful. But that's the kind of mindset I believe we needed this time, rather than everyone sitting on the fence and saying, let's wait, let's just wait and see what happens and wait for someone else to take those first few steps. Yeah. In a nutshell, Andrea, that was that was my that was my message from from Michael. It's just, you know, so there was a famous quote from Seth Godin a few years ago. And he said, If you don't, if you only follow the data are we going to get is more of the Kardashians? Right? So the data that the data represents what has been, and it's one of the challenges with artificial intelligence as well, right. It's all based on what has been, but actually what we're moving towards has hasn't been, and you're absolutely right. It's a it's a huge challenge. And it's not, it's not, you know, obviously, the everyone in the room was focused on Singapore. But for me, Singapore is one of the most progressive thinking countries when it comes to the climate emergency LeSean long, the Prime Minister is someone I listened to regularly, he's been speaking about it for a long time, you know, preparing Singapore as much as they can. If the weights glacier goes, there might not be too much preparation that anyone can do. But I feel that that it is a country that is paying attention and is moving forward. But this idea of being able to build businesses without proof, right, like so when I first pitched social leadership to big corporations, one person said, yes, the rest of them said, Well, how can we prove that it's going to be successful? On Monday? I can't because I haven't had a chance to do the show. This is a new way of thinking. And any one person said yes. And he said to me, you got six months to prove this financially. And on basically six months to the day, I got a call from one of those guys in Melbourne, who said, he just basically won a $5 million deal based on what he was doing on social media. So I got the justification, right? Yes, to get Andrea but, but the most important thing is I found the one person to give me a go. And and he wasn't scared to give me a go and take a risk. But it's pretty rare. It's pretty rare as well. You mentioned Seth Gordon's quote there. And by the way, that's fantastic. I love that story that's very inspiring, and well done to you deserve, you deserve all the success and a lot more. But my favorite quote, around being exploratory is to drum into people's minds is to get them to understand this equation, statistics is not equal to probability. What I mean by that is that if you look at the data, you look at the statistics, what worked in the past, a lot of people say this was an 80% success rate. Okay. Now, the more uncertain the world becomes, the more complex the world becomes, the less strong this correlation between statistics, what worked in the past and probability, what will work in the future actually becomes. So you know, we sitting down having those data driven decisions, actually in a highly uncertain world that can lead to massive errors in your decision making, it can completely off course, because what worked in the past and a very complex world does not equal probability of success in the future. And it's an actually a massive decision making bias in a highly uncertain and complex world make decisions based on that. Interesting, right. So the explorers mindset Take, take us through what is that? Well, the explorers mindset, in my definition of it, and this is what I work with corporate teams is how we can lead our fields by being unique, by being different by thinking differently, instead of playing the same game as everybody else. Instead of setting those incremental goals. For example, how can we be 1% different? How can be 1% faster or 1%? Cheaper? The explorers mindset, the first step in it, Andrea is being bitten by a bug. And a bug is my acronym not for one of those Dengie carrying bugs, but an acronym for a bold, unique goal. You know, if you want to be exploratory, then your goals, they need to be unique. They need to be things that either people haven't managed to achieve before, or they haven't even thought of before. And in the race to net zero, people have to start thinking uniquely, they have to start thinking differently. And by the very fact that these are unique, you are not going to find a manual or a handbook or a data set to guide you. Okay, we've come up with this goal. Let's go and find the 250 page, step by step roadmap to set us on that path, you are going to have to take a big step into the unknown and that's why the first letter and this is be as bold, because it's going to be scary, and you're going to have to take some risk you are gonna have to take a step into the unknown. Some people don't like that. Some people love it. But that bold, unique goals. That's the explorers mindset. Yeah, like that. So a lot of companies have promoted people without that quality, right? And the people with that mindset have either given up, shut themselves down or left the company because that quality in them wasn't honored by the business. Because that's not how business has been done historically. Right? That's right. And Andrew, there was some really interesting other observations from this particular event that I attended, which I wouldn't work if I could just share with you. One was that, you know, when they're asking ideas about how they can accelerate how organizations can accelerate this, and there's one idea which to me made perfect sense, and I can't believe that it's not already implemented in more organizations, this to start tying renumeration to these sustainability targets in F two CEOs. You know, renumeration packages, put a KPI there based around them hitting their sustainability targets. That was a bit of a surprise to me, to be honest, I think well, that, you know, if people have organizations that really serious about this shooting, they have that in place already. Yeah. So that that was, that was quite interesting to hear that. Yeah. I'm stunned by, you know, so much that's going on at the moment, and I'm just advertising, okay, we're constantly being advertised, what is actually destroying the planet, you know, and it hasn't stopped. In fact, it's getting worse. And obviously, we were going through the economic impact of the last couple of years. And I'm finding that really challenging, like, I'm just constantly seeing the world advertised to me, and it's the world that's putting us in, in the place that we're in basic things like, you know, I was just doing some research for some of my daily tips. So if you send 6065 emails, it's the equivalent of driving a kilometer in a car, right? We send 3 billion emails a day, to all of us, if you have attachments, they create more emissions, companies with their big marketing, email lists. 20 to 25% of those emails are open. So basically, 80% of these emails aren't open, but they they're contributing to emissions, just by being sent groups of people who send, you know, reply all to 100 people, every one of those is one email, write some really basic things, you know, from, we have to change how we advertise the whole concept of degrees needs to come in industries need to come together and say, How are we going to move into the future? And it's can't be on these quarterly KPIs. It's complete transformation. And I'm not seeing any of this stuff happening. It's like nothing is happening. And, you know, there's some obvious places to start. And it's just business as usual. It's like nobody can imagine it. And it's basic stuff. Well, of course, you're fighting as a system, which has been Yeah, you know, you're fighting the capitalist system, they're just not going to be a straightforward answer. And, you know, one of the things that when you're speaking there is, is this issue, which I struggle with all the time. And it's this issue of hypocrisy. I think anyone who's seriously thinking about sustainability and trying to take some actions, or struggle with this concept of a yes, we want to look after the planet. But, you know, our lives are so kind of intertwined with using energy with when I'm talking to you on things which are made out of plastic, which have real metals in them and the computer elements and components, phone, what makes up phones, batteries. You know, one of my favorite quotes about being an environmentalist is that if you want to be a true environmentalist, 100 100% authentic, shoot yourself in the head. Because because you literally you're consuming stuff with every breath that you take. So the issue here around hypocrisy is that yet even that you know that the President or the chairman or the chief of Greenpeace uses a plastic phone, when he has to call and communicate on people. So the issue here is how do we get a balance? Yeah. How do people start thinking like, when you're just saying about that advertising and throw away culture with consumer items? This this is a Casio FX 82 calculator, which I bought when I was 13 years old. I'm now almost 50. You know, it's been going strong for 3537 years, the stuff you buy these days, you know, one year later, it's outdated. And this whole this consumerism stuff. Definitely I agree with you. It's, it makes my heart ache. Yeah. Leave them the way that consumerism is going. Yeah, but Andrea, I do believe, you know, I have some kind of I have an optimistic outlook for the planet. And if we have time, and if you're interested, I wouldn't mind sharing that with Yeah, absolutely. I actually believe that that the answer to many of these problems for us that this is a complex problem. Yeah. That's what I focus teaching teams all the time. This isn't a solution. That is going to be a straightforward solution. Right? It's complex. It's multi layered. There's going to be there's going It's systems thinking, we can't get a mathematician to do a calculation and say the answer is 7.63. It's not going to be, it's not going to be straightforward like that. But I see Singapore, because Singapore is a wonderful little case study, right? Where the population is all enjoys a very high quality of life, where there is a very high quality of, of education. And that starts to shine through when you see like the, the birth rate, the natural birth rate in Singapore, and countries, especially where women become more educated. And people in general become more educated, there's good health systems, there's good education systems, there's job opportunities, they don't want to have 12 children, they don't want to get married when they're 21. Some of them don't want to get married at all. And you actually see what Singapore is experiencing, you start to see a naturally declining birth rate. And when you see developed countries, you see the opposite, right? Yep. It's going the opposite. So this is just my thoughts that I'm just sharing my thoughts with you. Sometimes I think that the that the answer is that in the short term, and I'm talking like a few decades, we are going to have the situation is going to get worse before it starts to get better in terms of more people, more people, more more, more consumerism, etc. But maybe is the answer, getting the world to a point where we're developed enough, where people have more choice were educated enough, there's good health systems where people were people don't need to have that many children when people don't want to have that many children, that the the birth rate may, you know, some people will say, Jordan Peterson would say that the birth rate is going to fall off a cliff, literally, we're going to not have enough people. But when people get more educated as well, they have more choices, then of course we can, we can start really educating the children, I think the older generation is, you know, some of them, I'm not generalizing here, but you know, they've missed the boat a lot on this and and they grew up in a different era. But I believe it's the children coming up that we really need to instill the sense of purpose around that about the planet, and about the environment and how it is complex. And it's not just something you go and visit once a year for one week, and you go for a walk, where you go scuba diving, and the rest of the time you sit in the city walking down to the supermarket and getting your food magically off the shelf. But we're you know, it's complex we're involved with, and they have to have a genuine desire to look after and do better. And I think the answer is by becoming more developed and having more opportunities and getting the equality of the world up higher. Yeah, equality in education, especially if girls is definitely definitely the thing, the challenge is we don't have time for the children to grow up to address the issues. And so that's always my my concern. So I was reading in the top 10% in the world, and the top 1%. And then there's the top 0.001%, they're the CPR type people, right, but the top 10% in the world, if we can reduce our emissions by 80%, the bottom 50%, even in the same country, say like America can actually increase this by 3%. So and that's what we need to do, we need to we need to create systemic change where the people who are currently at the bottom, economically, they still need to rise and have access to lights so that kids can study and all that sort of stuff. It's the top 10% who create 50% of the world's emissions, they need to reduce and I was reading an article, I think the group's called jump.org. And we should only be buying three new sets three new things clothes a year, we should fly short haul once every five years long haul once every 88 years. You know, I mean, these are huge, obviously more plant based, no meat, certainly not flying stuff in. So what we're being asked to do, and people go the government's got to do it, businesses have got to do it. And I actually had an epiphany last year, I think the change has to be us, it has to start from us, because businesses will change when we change. Businesses will stop advertising plastic bottles of soft drink to us when we sit in in movie theaters and go no, that's not on, that's not on, you know, why are you still doing that? You know, I'm not going to buy your brand because your brand doesn't honor the environment. So I think you know, you know that a tipping point is 20 25%, right of a population. I think if we could get up around the 80% mark of people waking up and going, Oh, okay. My government's not going to do what they need to do until enough of us demand that that's what they do. Because what we actually have to do is sacrifice now we have to change our lives. We have to give up the things that we think are important to us. And people are mourning that. I used the Christmas cracker example a couple of years ago, I said to everyone coming over for Christmas, there's no crackers on the table because I couldn't find sustainable ones. And it hurt people not to have that on the table. But they understood that there's these bits of plastic inside these crackers that sit in the environment 500 years and I just can't I can't do that. I can't justify that right even even for a tradition. So I actually think that it's the it's the waking up of all of us. And that's where my urgency is coming into now we've got to vote, we've got to vote for the right people, you know, we've got to vote for compassionate leaders, we've got to vote for him pathetically it is, but younger people as well, like you were talking about older people totally agree. They have a different priority. You know, and I think but even then, I think, you know, the older generation are waking up, they are starting to speak up, they're doing more they're looking at their pensions and where they fund, you know, they're looking at different things. So, I don't know, I think we're on the cusp of massive change, but we're also on the cusp of massive change for the environment. So all of these things need to be addressed. Right? Yeah, it's complex. And of course, you know, the world, we need energy. Yeah, the world runs on energy. So a big part of this, of course, is to search, you know, for that next energy source or sources, you know, is it going to be hydrogen is it going to be coms probably going to be combinations of things, you know, solar and wind and, you know, geothermal where it's available, but, you know, alternative fuels as well, because that's going to be a hugely critical part of, of solving part of this particular challenge as well. Also, I think, the thing that I always struggle with Andrew with his making people aware of, of this, because I've been going into the environment for 25 years, I noticed this, you know, as soon as I started going out in the environment, 25 years when I first started climbing mountains in New Zealand, and you look at the pictures in the guidebook, from 50 years ago, when they used to take horses up to mountain huts, and now we have to climb it's it's almost a vertical climb to get off the glaciers up to these mountain huts because the glaciers receded. You know, when I went to Mount Blanca in 2002. And there's this massive, there's this massive glassier called the mayor Declasse just outside of Shemini village, I crossed that when we had to climb down a ladder, to get onto the onto the actual blessing. It was just one letter at the time. I went back 12 years later, and suddenly, we had to climb down like four ladders to get down to exactly the same point. You know, when you're in the outdoors all the time, you're seeing this, you know, follow? For 10 years ago, there was the the climate change deniers and those like you know, you only need to go out into the environment and and travel around different places of the world to the mountainous areas where there's glassy as to I've seen this over 25 years it is but it's it's just there slapping you in the face. So the more people we can get into the outdoors that I think and that's that's part of what I like to do is if I can get them physically into the outdoors, at least virtually, you know, bring them along and show them what's out there and how amazing it is and what we have to lose if we don't if we don't look after it. Yeah, yeah, remember the first funeral for a glacier was in Iceland a couple of years ago. Now, I just found that one of the most sad things I've ever seen. And, of course, we've just seen the huge carving in Antarctica in the last week. And obviously the you know, the heat waves in both on both poles at the same time. And you know, there's the the other thing is the extreme weather, the stuff that I do my expeditions are completely based upon weather and weather patterns. And it's getting much harder, for example, to try and pick a weather window across the Tasman Sea. I've tried three times because the weather is just getting more extreme and rougher and windier and stormy or the storms are lasting longer or coming at more strange time. So you know, with that being being out there and Mother Nature is my point we need more people to be outdoors to be going out there. And in Singapore. It is such a just slathered in concrete everywhere. Yeah. And I can understand why a lot of people who live in an apartment and a concrete building and go to school with 42 kids in the class like our girls do. And like in this big concrete and concrete, like factory almost and come home and they they literally, you know, if they walk on the grass with bare feet, they'll get told off they'll say, Ooh, that's duty. And it's like, we need people to be back and love to fall in love with Mother Nature. It's like I liken it to if you've ever fallen in love with your partner, you know, do you have to hold them? Do you have to touch them? Do you have to? Do you have to taste them? Do you have to physically sense them? Or can you just do it by writing them a letter or you know doing it virtually? Some people might say yes, they might say maybe that might be falling in lust. But it's the same with Mother Nature. Sure, you can look at some nice pictures of it. But once you get out there and you swim in it, and you feel it and you feel the wind on your back and you climb the mountains and you you ride across countries and cycle across continents and you see these this amazing environment we have you know, you start you can't help but to want to become a steward for our environment. Absolutely. So when you come to pick it, I'm going to take you to one of my favorite restaurants. And depending on where the moon is, we might have the ocean in the restaurant with us or it might be just laughing Yeah, it's almost Yeah, yeah, but it's happening more and more and, you know, big chunks of it have fallen away and they keep building it back. But the whole this, this whole area, the trees, the beach sort of palms are sort of falling over and yeah, it's all it's all linked to changing shorelines, Thwaites Glacier goes, you know, that's going to be, you know, that's a restaurant site that are going to be gone. So it's all coming. Alright, so let's finish up with your next adventure in the little donkey. So tell us about the little donkey. And what you're planning to do? Well, the little donkey is my brand new ocean going pedal powered boat, which is designed to cross oceans completely by human power seas and oceans. So it's about six meters long, it has room for for one person or two very good friends. And it's actually the little donkey is going to come up to your part of the world entrare in well, in the next few months at some stage, and I'm planning to, to hopefully make a crossing of the Bay of Bengal in January or February of next year from Phuket, across to Sri Lanka. So I've teamed up with a with a university here in Singapore, where we will be taking water samples all the way across the Bay of Bengal to to contribute to a research project looking at not just microplastics, but also the biology, the health of the biology across the world, the microbiology across the Bay of Bengal as well. So I'm really excited to partner with the with a really strong cause for science for that. That's awesome. Are you going to you're going to try the Tasman again. Well, the boat has been specifically designed for the Tasman Sea, let's say a step into the unknown Andrea. One thing is designing it. The second thing is getting in it and seeing what it feels like once, you know in those kinds of conditions. So I haven't it's been two and a half years and the design and build process. I've currently pumped 100,000 pounds of my own money into it. And it's been the only thing that motivates you for these kinds of things is purpose, because the money's all going in one direction, but I need to get in and start testing it and see what it's like enter and see if see if it will be up to the Tasman Sea conditions because the Tasman Sea is a serious piece of water. Yeah, I mean, you've tried three times and haven't haven't quite made it right. But you've gotten close. I've tried three times the first time I was out at sea for 24 days, and I did the entire distance of a Tasman Sea crossing 2200 kilometers. But I got smashed and blown in a massive, massive big circle and got washed back into the shores of Australia, further away from New Zealand when I started 24 days before. And then I add two more attempts, which were much shorter five or six days when we kept getting capsized and rolled over. We went down into the Southern Ocean part where it gets really gnarly. So, yeah, it's it's quite quite an adventure down there too. And look global. What the changes in the global weather patterns, they just make all this much more challenging. Yeah, it's amazing what you do. I really admire it. And to me, it's it's it's inspiration for all of us not not to necessarily do what you do. But just to just push ourselves a little bit more, you know, than our comfort zone. Because, you know, that's where all the growth is all the uncomfortable things I've done have been the things that have made my life better. I couldn't agree more. Andrea, you've hit the hit the nail on the head there. That's exactly right. Yeah. Don't have to enjoy it. But and the stories you get to tell afterwards, right? Well, you know, the interesting thing, what has made my business very successful in the last four years, is it not? It's not the the big heroic stories where I get up there and say how I had, I had a goal and I went out there and I worked really hard than I achieved it on my first attempt. What people really like to hear is the nitty gritty of what it's like on those three failures. What is it like to you know, say goodbye to your family and literally push a boat off into a horrific piece of water, like the Tasman Sea? What does it feel like? What is them? What kind of courage? Do you need to do that? What does it feel like when you're 500 kilometers offshore, and you're smashed upside down in the middle of a storm by yourself? What does it feel like when you fail? Not once, two, three times in pursuit of your goal. That's the kind of messaging This is not my what I'm telling you. This is the feedback I that's what people want to hear. And you know, with the whole sustainable thing, that's the messaging I try and show to people. This is not about one time getting out there and getting it right, perfect execution. But you can't wait. Just get out there and start trying it. If it doesn't work. Well. Look for another angle and try from there. But you can't just sit on the fence and wait. Yeah, that's awesome. I thank you so much for joining me. Definitely a story, a story of courage and a man of courage. And I love that as you know. So I hope everyone's taking some inspiration. So get out, get outside your comfort zone and do what you can and it's not about perfection. It's about billions of people being imperfect, and just doing our part. Andrea, thank you so much and keep up your great work. It's super important. What you're doing is variable firing as well and keep at it. Thank you. Thanks. So appreciate it. All right, we'll see you guys soon. See ya there we go. How cool is that? An Explorer's mindset because what we need to do has never been done before. And we need to think in new ways. And of course, Grant's been out in the oceans. He's been in the mountains, he's seen the impact of the emergency that we face. And it's great to have his voice out there in the world sharing his message and his passion because he cares about nature because he's he's in nature all the time. So grant best of luck with the the adventures that are coming up. I hope you can be successful. I loved your message about the lessons that failure teaches us listening to something recently, we are more risk averse than we've ever been. And we need to change that because the future is so uncertain theory. Thank you, Grant. I really appreciate you spending time with me. Love love talking to you love hearing your message. Also Priscilla. Joseph, thank you so much, my friend for editing the podcast and Gary Krause of legend music Paquette who does all of my original music, if you like what I'm sharing here in this message, please pass it on to anyone that you think will value it. Give the podcast a review or a rating that helps it to be more successful. And yeah, thanks for joining me, I always appreciate it. Cheers let's talk about that stuff to say Oh, I love this stuff. Courage