SPARK your self-leadership – a guide to becoming your best self, which always starts within

Sally Foley-Lewis has recently published her latest book SPARK: 9 Simple Strategies to Ignite Exceptional Self-Leadership. Sally has such a keen mind, and this conversation is all about the core aspects of self-leadership that we can all understand and get better at. Sometimes just owning up that you have some work to do is the place to start, because let’s face it, we all do. 

Written for a business audience, Sally’s message is much broader and will benefit anyone, especially if you are struggling with your sense of self in this crazy world. 

Have a listen and let us know your biggest take-aways? You can leave a comment on the Facebook Group, Uncommon Courage https://www.facebook.com/groups/uncommoncourageaninvitation 

Connect with Sally Foley-Lewis

On LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallyfoleylewis/

On her Website https://www.sallyfoleylewis.com/ 

And here’s a link to Amazon, for her book SPARK: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Simple-Strategies-Exceptional-Self-Leadership/dp/098741867X/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2TXEAC7XFKUPN&keywords=sally+foley-lewis&qid=1644412642&sprefix=sally+foley-lewi%2Caps%2C325&sr=8-3 

 To get in touch with me, Andrea Edwards

Websites https://andreatedwards.com/ and https://uncommon-courage.com/ 

My book Uncommon Courage, An Invitation mybook.to/UncommonCourage

And the workbook mybook.to/UncommonCourageAction

And my Facebook Group Uncommon Courage https://www.facebook.com/groups/442905877003333 

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

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All right, welcome. Welcome. Welcome Sally Foley Louis. Hey, thanks, Andrea. It's so good to have you here, mate. So you actually appeared in my first gal talk podcast where I've got a group of us together and talked about what was the hashtag? Was this girl is me, this little girl is me. That's right. And that was really cool. It was cool to talk about that. But one of the reasons I wanted to invite you here today is because you've just launched your new book, Spark, but the tagline, you have nine simple strategies to ignite exceptional self leadership, but you haven't officially launched or done a big show and dance. So what's that? What's that all about? I'm not showing dance kind of girl. I think she says as a professional speaker who gets on stages. The irony of that statement, we can we let's go down that rabbit hole. So I have launched it. But I'm not someone who spends a lot of time during the launch the launch of things, I have a strategy where I aim to put the book in the hands of decision makers. Because the book is only part of the story of Spark. All four books that I've written now, only the book is only one part of the value I want to give and the help that I want to give. So to me, I will create a book, I will distribute that book strategically and happy to send copies to people, if they are the key decision maker and can see that what's in the book needs to be delivered as an experience for a team. That's that. Yeah, so that's where my head goes, I look nothing wrong with people who do massive launch parties. Nothing wrong with any publishing house that wants to put a billboard up for me, nudge nudge, just kidding. There's everyone has a different strategy, and everyone walks a different talk, you know, so I'm, this is what I tend to find works for me. What I do, I believe, is a journey. It's not there's no, there's no end game to this, there are people out there who need help, that I believe I've got value and can give that help. And that, to me, doesn't have an end date. The productive leader, which I wrote a few years ago, delegate and feedback and NES stock will go on I hope and be of continuous help and value. Yeah, nice. I like that nothing. It's a good message for everyone that you don't have to follow the model. There's no model, Brett, every path is different. And, and your books are a piece of a much bigger hole, right? That's absolutely, yeah, look. And I would say to any aspiring author, who, you know, if once you learn that writing the book, and you know this, you've written books, writing the book is almost the easy path. So you know, and that's not to put anyone off. But I would actually say to anyone who's never written a book before, find some like a book coach that you trust, follow their process, learn it inside out and upside down, then you work out which rules to break that suit, you learn all the rules, so you know which ones that need braking to fit your mold. I love that. Alright, so Spark, what why now, why is this an important book for this time in the world, I have been working with managers for over 20 odd years now. And every time we go into a leadership conversation, or a skills workshop or a leadership development program, without it being quite deliberate, there's always a conversation or hang on a minute, let's stop what we're doing. Let's talk about self leadership. And we always have something like that emerge through the process. And I have finally listened to that as a bit of a Hey, Sally, nudge, nudge, wink wink, this is an issue in and of itself. And so for the last 12 months or more now, I decided I would start interviewing senior leaders to get their take on what self leadership was. And I was thinking that this would be a great way to put some of their experience because the senior leaders, we take an assumption that they've been around the block a couple of times, they've worked their way through a certain level of their career, and that they would have a level of maturity. And so I thought that what I would do is take the interviews, and then use that to inform the book. And after about 20 to 23 interviews or so I realized that there are 52,000 different definitions for self leadership. And it wasn't going to end I got different types. And it was amazing, and it was rich. And it was it was a wonderful experience. And I will continue the interview series. So if there's a senior leader out there who wants an interview, come and reach out but what it taught me was as I was listening and learning and consolidating what their take on self leadership was hang on a minute. I actually know what I'm talking about. I've done the research. I've worked with so many people that I understand the themes that are emerging these interviews can help support and complement the work that I already know needs to go out into the world. So that's where the book has been coming for longer than I anticipated, I, I tried to get a book out every year and I skipped it, I skipped a pandemic, when it comes to a book. And so that's why now, it is it is a combination of not only an extra own for my own self leadership and self awareness, but as a product of seeing that there are so many ways to look at this whole thing called self leadership. But I think what the people I work with need most is simple strategies. So interviewing everyone made it more complex, I needed to make it more simple. But that one of the things that you just unveiled there, which I think is really, really important, is having the self confidence in your own ideas, your own knowledge, which is something so many people struggle with, you know, like, Marianne Williamson, did a little video on Instagram the other day, so she was one of the presidential candidates. And she's been famous for a very long time. And she was talking about every time you go into a meeting, send a bolt of light from your heart, to the person that you're about to meet. And of course, I wrote a chapter on that, in uncommon courage, which was obviously published long before she said it. And those little moments, and I see a lot of people saying things, and I've been saying for years, and they're very famous, right? And I'm like, I say that all the time. But I'm not being heard like they are. And the reality is, it doesn't matter if I'm heard, as long as it's been heard, because it's about the message, not the messenger, right? But that belief in yourself and going out there and interviewing people to just really get that belief in your own ideas and your own thinking. And I think that's, that's a real tip for people who really do struggle with their self confidence in their ideas. Because I mean, I'm sure that's part of the self leadership is becoming confident in your own ideas, right? Absolutely. And, you know, one of the things that I see happening that every time I work with managers and leaders around their self leadership, the byproduct is confidence, influence and courage. While leaders need skills, how do I how do I delegate? How do I give feedback? How do I build the team? How do I improve my decision making, they're almost died. To me, they're like the hard skills, even though they're soft skills, but they're their skills that are getting easier to teach. What I'm saying is, we need leaders who've got a real clear eye on their self leadership so that they've got the confidence to ask for help, they've got the confidence to say, I don't know, but we'll work it out. They've got the confidence to say let's give this a crack and have a go at it. And then they've got the influence, because they've got the respect. They've got the integrity, and they've got the emotional intelligence, to be able to say, I believe we've got something really important here, I'd like you to come on the journey and had that influence to go to work through that, as well as the courage to actually speak up when they need to speak up, as well as sometimes also the courage to shut up. Yeah, it's an important quality. Alright, so I totally agree with you. And and, and to your point, you said before, about, you know, you hear the famous people are doing air quotes, the famous people say exactly what you've been saying, for years. I totally resonate with that. And you know, what else gripes me sometimes is when they say it more eloquently than I get really ticked off? Because I think, oh, geez, that was much smarter than me. But then I think, and then I have to remember, I got to the same point, they got to, maybe we've said it differently. Maybe there's some wisdom there. And you know, what, some people will hear my words exactly as they need to be heard. And some people hear their words exactly as they need to be heard. I use that to sort of pull me back from the brink of too much jealousy. So no, I mean, you know, like I said, it's, it's about the message, not the messenger. And I think, you know, some people are, are in it for fame, and other people are in it for the message. And if you can just always sort of sit in that space of I'm here for the message, not for the ego. I think, you know, it doesn't matter as long as the message is being heard, right. Alright, so let's dig into self leadership, what it is, why so many people struggle with it, and why it's so fundamentally important. To me, self leadership is this is the the flippant definition, but it's the true definition. It's leading oneself. And that's the very high level way of that. So to peel back those onion layers, and to answer the question about why it's so important is because if you can't lead yourself, then how are you expecting others to follow you? And in the book, I actually asked the question, Would you follow you? And I'm a bit cheeky, and those who know me know that I can be even pretty bad when it comes to being cheeky. But when I asked that question, I mean that really sit with that. Are you someone that you would want to follow and Then peel back the onion lies even further around what it's all about is that if we don't have a solid level of self leadership, then that shows up in our leadership of others. And it shows up in our decision making, and it shows up and how we communicate, it shows up in how we might or might not take a seat at certain tables, how we might respond to opportunities, or forget or neglect or ignore. And so it's so critical that we get that piece right? Or, okay, maybe not, right, they're not the right word, that we focus on it as part of our journey. Because I don't know if it's actually there's a there's an endpoint to it. I mean, I think anyone listening in me, you know, I've had very bad examples with people with very poor self, self leadership qualities, they think they've got them. But you know, being a bully, being the king of the domain, because they're the boss, you know, that sort of mindset, where they're not open, they're not listening, they're not hearing, but the reality is they suffer from that they don't get the best out of their team. Why is it so hard? What is it? Is it just a lack of awareness, we just don't spend enough time on that inner work, you know, because to me, self leadership is in a workroom. So it starts with that inner work. And so what I talked about for self leadership is that is definitely inner work is out of work that's influenced by the inner work. And then there's the spark work. And so it sounds like confidence, influence and courage, you can see confidence being inner influence being the outer, and courage being the spark level of it. And for some people, I tell like, they they're either just completely, utterly clueless. And it's not because of any other reason, but no one's actually brought things to their attention. I've got a relative who if she knew exactly the impact of what she said on people, she would be mortified. He has not a mean bone in her body, but when it comes out her mouth, my goodness, and we all have a laugh about it. But she's just clueless, you know, and some may say you should say something, but we, we kind of we know where it comes from the intent is good, you know, whereas then you've got other people who will deliberately refuse to acknowledge that there's work to be done. And I can, I'm not a psychologist. And that's something that a psychologist could probably go much deeper into. But the experiences that I have with people around this is that there's a fear. If I open that gate, and stop that work, I don't really know what's going to fall out. I don't know, if I'm going to like what comes out, I don't know that if I get better, the expectations are going to be even greater on me. If I go there, will I like me, if I change? Will the people who love me still love me? If, if I What if I go there, and I'm actually worse than what I think I am like, so you can just imagine what falls out of opening that gate of the inner work. And another one is, if I open the gates, will they be able to be closed again? So that, you know, that's the experiences I've had around that. And that's that's the other side where people know that there's something holding them back from doing the work. Yeah, no, no, I can totally relate. I've met many, many people. Facing themself is one of the most frightening things they can ever do. But the closing the gate thing is an interesting one. Because I find once you start on the inner journey, it never stops. It never stops. But you can pause sometimes when you need a break. Because it's it can be relentless. You know, when you face yourself, and you sort of pull all the tendrils of your life out and try and work out? Well, who am I? What do I believe? What was put there by others? Do I believe it? Do I reject it? You know, it's yeah, it's not an easy process, I can imagine that there would be a lot of fear. But if you can do the work, you just become a more can you work out how to become a more contented, hopeful, loving, gentler person? I mean, it's absolutely it's absolutely, yeah. And the more self aware, you become so the work you do and and you do start with self awareness. So, you know, if any organization puts their staff through those, you know, any of those behavioral style assessments or an emotional intelligence tool, any tool like that, start there, you know, no, just do it and then sit in the debrief or the training session, actually read the whole report and pick an action around implementing what that report suggests. One of the things I think it's really important that I would recommend is an emotional intelligence assessment that people to do as a starting point, because what that will do is when you look at emotional intelligence in an itself, self awareness is the first one. So any recommendations of emotional intelligence surveys, I like the E IQ to I'm, I'm qualified to administer that. So the reason why I like it is that it's very quick to do, it's I find it really accurate. And I love the report that it generates, because it explains everything, it gives you the data in a way that it's easy to consume. You there are some reports for some assessments out there where you need a PhD, just to read the report, this is not like that. So it's deceptively simple to read. But don't underestimate its complexity in delivering you what they deliver you, you know, they've done the hard yards in the back end. And so and I also love that it comes with a development plan that you can work through. Alright, so can you access that online for free, or is that expensive, I can give you the link to have a look at it, you'll need someone who is I would, I'm one of these people who absolutely stands that stands up to if you do an assessment, then you must have a properly debrief, because that's the only ethical way to make sure that nothing, if you were to be triggered by anything, or if there are any issues that come out of it, then then we can line you up with the help you need. Because that can happen for some people. So I'm more than happy to send a link. And if people want to have a chat about it, I'm more than happy to take that further as well. So that's why it's not very expensive at all. So yeah, there's that mean, there's loads of free sort of tools out there, but Google the martial intelligence, you know, you'll find you'll find plenty, just just know that buyer beware, you sometimes you get what you pay for, but that looking at it, you know, that's to me the first place. And since we're in the first place, and it's always a good place to start, there's a movie or song around that, then, you know, value is where you start, you know, understanding what your values are, which helps you understand what value you have to offer. And so that starts with that self awareness piece. Yeah, 100% Most people have no idea what their values are, or they're not. I always say you got to anchor yourself in your values, you know, and be in stand firmly in them. No matter what happens around you you, the more deeply anchored you are in your values, they become the cornerstone of your life. But I watch people getting knocked off their feet all the time the anchors come loose, they just, they're following the crowd. And they're sacrificing a part of themselves and people start doing it young in a professional context. And it becomes cumulative. So I absolutely 100% agree with you on that. And I also think that as you get older and more mature and you go through life's experiences, excuse me, it's really worth exploring to the values that I grew up with, still serve me, am I just blindly going along in accordance with mums and dads or my guardians or whoever bought me up values? And it wasn't until probably a few years ago, I had a coach, I was working with a coach, you know, good coaches, get coaches, you know, I had a coach, and he challenged me on some limiting beliefs. And it was like this light bulb moment. And he said, Why haven't you got x y and Zed list is one of the values. And I thought, because it just hasn't been and he said, you know, you can choose it. And you know, my head exploded because I had never really thought, Well, Jake, he can choose values. Yeah, but Go figure. If they're aligned to who you want to be, or who you are, how you want to feel the work, you want to do the purpose you want to serve, then you can choose your values. And they can be for a long time or a short time, you'll always have those core fundamental values that drive you. But if you feel as though you're heading in a certain direction, then you can pick a value to operate through. Yeah, I love that. Give me three of your core values. I know you know me, what do you think one of them are? What do you think they are? I think honesty and integrity are two very important values to you. Having fun? Not taking life too seriously. Yeah. I think you're a person of your word. And because that's a really important value for me. For me, it's honesty and integrity is a core, a core sort of definition of who you are to me. That's pretty close. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So number one is service. Yeah, I have to be mindful that it actually isn't. It isn't taken to the extreme and becomes a disservice to myself. So Services is a huge value for me. And you said integrity and honesty. That's also wrapped up in its around justice and ethics. So it's like a particularly let's take a workplace example. If someone takes the credit for someone else's work. That's a button for me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and fun. Absolutely fun. Yeah, fun. donut? Exactly. If it doesn't bring you joy, what's the point? So you've got the three V's of self leadership, do you want to quickly run through them? Sure. So the first one we quickly talked about already was value. And that's looking at again, stymie self leadership, looking at things like when you understand your value, then that can show up in as an example, having really clear boundaries. And as a leader, demonstrating and role modeling those boundaries, so that other people have got healthy, respectful boundaries, and then being able to stand up for yourself so that you're actually standing in your power and knowing that this is the right thing, or I understand that this is, you know, all the salmon are going one way, and I'm going the opposite way, then up the stream, so that that's because that's the important thing to do. Now, just because it's right, doesn't mean you know, it's always going to be easy. So that's around value. And then the second one is your voice. And it starts with that inner work, which is your self talk, because how you talk to yourself about yourself leaks out in how you talk with others. And so that's, that also then includes your interpersonal communication skills. And then the next piece around that is how you speak up. So what you say when you say it, how you say it to people, making sure that, you know, when you're being silent? Is that serving you or not serving you when you're being solid? And then the third one is your visibility. And this is about, again, the inner work first, which is your self image, how do you see yourself when someone pays you a compliment? What are you instantly thinking about what they're saying about you, when you walk into a room, or a meeting, or turn on the camera in this virtual world to have a meeting, what is going through your head about how you think you look to others. So what's your self image, and then making sure that that's coming from a more positive framework, they're moving into how you're being seen. So making sure that you are networking and making sure that you're being visible, and making sure that you don't hide in the background, even if it's all online meetings, have the camera on and make sure you are saying, you know, it's hard for senior leaders to pick you when they can't see you. And then the third element to that visibility, is making sure you're standing out. Yeah, but it's not an arrogant way around, it's just not standing out as you should be standing out. Listening to the message around voice. I always used to study the younger people that used to work for me. And my teams, when they were in a team meeting, or a company meeting or a bigger meeting, always asked one question. And they'd say, why? I said, because when you get into the habit of asking one question, first of all, you don't get to the end of the meeting going. Somebody else asked the question, I've been thinking about most of them for most of the meeting. But second, just gives you a little bit of confidence. Every time you do it, you get more and more confident to speak up. And just really small things like that can go a long way. So building the courage muscle ran, I love the idea of the visibility. First of all, going within and your self talk about how you look, I think that's that's a definition I haven't heard before. I think what's so it's, it's not necessarily what you're wearing. But it's about how you want to be perceived by others. The whole model that this lies on that I created through the work then the research that I've done, and also by working with managers and listening to them, when your value and your voice are aligned, you come across as someone with intelligence, and it's not just, you know, book smarts and you know, you know how your technical skills, it's actually a social and emotional intelligence. And then when your voice and your visibility are aligned, then you actually are portraying that image that is aligned to who you want to be seen at. And so then when your visibility and your value are aligned, and you're actually being seen in a way that aligns with the values that which you want to operate with, then you're seen with integrity. Hmm. Oh, yeah. So to your point about that image case, again, that inner work, how do I want my boss to see me? Or how do I want my colleagues to see me and think of me? Or, you know, how do I want my team to talk about me or think of me the image of me when I'm not in the room? Yeah, nice. I like that. Alright, so you've got nine principles in the book. And obviously, we're not going to be able to go deep on all of them. But you want to do want to run through the nine principles and you've discussed? Absolutely. So when we look at that, and I'm a real simple girl. So I've got them in a in a nine box model. So starting with the inner work with value, we do the self awareness piece. And so in the book, there's an exercise for every strategy that's that I've got in the book. So this is this is I'm a practical girl. And I'm very pragmatic. So you know, if you're, if you just want to fall asleep by reading my book, bad luck with that there's work to do. So yeah, so there's a self awareness. And we do have values exercise, that's actually really good, fun and really uplifting. And that's why I'm going to leave it as a teaser for that, then for the outer work with value, staying in the value, area, it's, it's actually looking at how you can set boundaries, respectfully understanding and identifying what your boundaries are setting them, holding them know when you break them temporarily, because we live in the real world, and then reinstating them. So boundaries is the second one. And then the third one in value is, you know, standing up for yourself and what that means for you, and how you can stand up in a really respectful, mutually respectful way for voice. And we move into the fourth strategy, it's all about self talk, and understanding what that actually means for yourself and what you say about yourself. The fifth one is communication skills, and making sure that you're really clear that how you are communicating with people the tone, you use the body language, the word choice, the the timing, the intent is really clear. So that you're actually using interpersonal communication skills as a real connector for success, not just for you, but for the people you're communicating with. And then the sixth strategy is around speaking up. And so making sure that you're finding the space, in a in a situation for your voice to be heard, and being heard than the way you want it to be heard. And I love there's a speech coach that I interviewed. And she asked the question, Does your voice match the profile that you want others to say? Which I thought was really great? And when she talks about voice, she says, don't listen to your voice? Feel your voice? And that's pretty powerful. Yeah, where are we up to now up to number seven. So in the visibility area, where we're now looking at the inner work of your self image, and we dive into that strategy about really determining your worth. And then we move into how you can be seen. And so looking at some of the more outer work, like having a mentor, how you can be networking, how you can choose to show up and be seen by the right people in the key decision makers and the value of of mentoring and using, say sponsors, as mentors as well. And then the last strategy is about standing out. And so it's about backing yourself so that you get out front in all the right ways. So there's no there's lots of activities and exercises in the book, as well as a link to download a workbook. If you don't like writing in books, you can have your own workbook separate to the book. This is very cool. So I've had a chance to read like the first half of it, but I haven't, I haven't had time to get stuck into the values. But across the three you had standing up for yourself, speaking up for yourself, and then backing yourself. I think a lot of people will listen to this. And they potentially would be the people that there's two types of people. For me, there's people who need the confidence to be able to do it. But then the other side is the people who learned to do it from a young age, who maybe didn't learn how to do it the right way. So they might be a little bit loud, a little bit obnoxious. So like, you know, for me, I was involved in committees from a young age, right? You met me. But I learned to speak up for myself from a young I tried. It didn't mean I was always doing a good job by doing it from a young age. And then you know, I wanted a career in communications, right? So then I had to I was I'm constantly learning about the art of how you communicate, and that to me goes across all three. But on the other side, so if a person's not getting good responses to what they're doing, even though they're confident, to me, it's also a model for them to maybe sort of go back and rethink, you know, and just sort of look at like the relative you're talking about, right? It's an opportunity to rethink her communication skills. Because if you're speaking out for yourself, but you're not doing it in the right way, you're not going to win. Precisely. And if, if you're not getting what you want, then you got to look at what you're doing. It's not their fault. I often I love there's a line that's on one of these trashy reality shows where the some intro giving away way too much about my own person. Something like this. It's not that they don't understand. It's just that they don't listen. And I think, Hmm, that's a classic line there. When someone's really frustrated and they say, oh, but no one understands. And like, Well, okay, let's look at why they don't understand. But they don't listen to me. Yeah, I think people are fed up of listening to what you're delivering. You need to change your strategy. You No. And I've had that with one of my dearest, most beautiful friends where she was really getting frustrated. And she said, but you don't understand. And I said, I do understand what you're what I need you to know is I actually just don't agree. And that's the hard bit. And the look on her face. I said, Now let's work forward to find what out what we need to do. Because I was saying, I hear you, I just don't agree, I hear you. I know you don't understand. So I totally get where you're coming from. And I know when I was young, I knew everything. And you and I could not be told, and now that I'm older, I know nothing. And I'm constantly learning and I love it. You know, I'm an I'm an empty vessel, just fill me up constantly. So, you know, if we have done something that's blown up in our face, the world's not ending, you know, we can actually go back and say, Can I try this again? I think what I may have missed last time was x y Zed. Do you mind if I pitch to you again? Because I believe I've been more thorough this time. I always think when the only constant is you, you need to start thinking about that common denominator. Yeah. When you're it, you know, you keep losing jobs. And, you know, I've had many situations where persons constantly losing a job, and they're moaning about the bosses, and they're moaning about the company, and they're moaning about everything. And then they get the next job and they lose it. And the same again, I'm not the only constant here is you does, maybe that needs to be looked at, maybe you need to buy spark. Right? If you're the only constant, you know, like, but people like you're not listening to me, regular situation where the way you're communicating the information isn't working for me. You're not compromising? To help me hear you. You just keep trying to force the way you want to communicate on to me, but that's not how I hear. It's not how I listen. Right? And that's, that's, you know, being sensitive to each other's learning styles. You know, I'm a fast talker, fast thinker, fast mover, someone who spends too much time trying to explain something, I'm just like, I'm constantly interrupting them, and then they get offended. And I'm like, You're just taking too long. Just go faster? Well, we've got to meet in the middle, right? Yeah, I totally get that. And what I talk to managers about is, you know, as a leader, you've got to remember, particularly, if you've moved from being a individual contributor, and a widget expert, you've got a specialty, and now you're in people management, the biggest thing you've got to transition in your head is your people success is your success. So you've got to set them up for success. And so just listening to what you're saying before that when people are talking too slowly, or whatever the more self aware you are, the more you can actually be in the moment and go, Alright, okay, I need to change what I'm doing, because I can see they're not getting it. And it's, it's weird, because you're not out learning more about other people, you're actually learning more about yourself, which actually helps you learn more about other people, as we eat is that kind of comes across. No, no, absolutely. Alright, so the readers of the book, what are the pitfalls, give me three key things that you hope by reading this book, what are the three changes you'd love to see happening? For the readers, I believe there's something in this book for everyone, when they can see that. If they work on their self leadership, their confidence will increase, their ability to influence will expand. And they'll have a level of courage to take another step. You know, I'm not talking about courage that you go from zero to hero with a with a super cave, I'm talking about courage for the next step. So I think that's a real critical thing. There's enough work in this book, that when people participate actively in the work that's in this book, they will learn more about themselves, they will learn therefore more about who they want to be as a leader, because when you actually understand more about yourself, it shows up other people see it, you know, we are more obvious, in a lot of ways to other people, because we have blind spots than we realize. So to me, it helps leaders be better leaders, because they are stronger and more personally powerful and therefore become more respected, and therefore more people will want to follow them. That's something that comes out of it. And I think that they will actually get a better reputation as a leader. So there's nothing to be scared of right facing yourself. I think so many people are scared to take the first steps, but it's all good. I think, well, you know what, there might be some things that might sting. Let's not sugarcoat it, right. There might be one of the activities in here 99.9% of the time. You get really positive things back. And it's a really uplifting activity or exercise that's, that's in the book, there might be one or two times where someone has gotten something and they kind of go, I'm not too sure about that. Well, that's an opportunity. It's not something to knock you it's not something for her to ruminate on. But it is an opportunity to say, How true is that? Or can I can we talk about that? And why why that was something that us you mentioned, it's that feedback that's so important, that when we get feedback about our, who we are, and how we show up in the world, we are then given an opportunity and choice around how we then want to behave. So yes, there might be some things, there's no guarantee that this is, you know, sugar cane and lollipops the whole way through, you know, we've all got things that we aren't aware of that until we are told, how do we know they need improving? So that the scale of it. So I want to take you back to the beginning of the book, just as we wrap this up, you talk about a story in your very first job where somebody forged your signature, and the impact it had on you. And I thought it was such an interesting story, those early stories, because you didn't speak up in that case, right? Yeah, no, which I think is quite normal for someone at that age that you know, at the beginning of their jobs, but Sally today, what would she say to Sally, then, oh, I would have just said this was not appropriate, this needs to be escalated. And, you know, I don't want to take and I actually would say to that person right now, I don't want to press charges. But this needs to be escalated. Because what they did was criminal. Technically, yeah. Mind you. You know, there was a lot of things that went through my brain that really could have come at my mouth, and therefore very career limiting in that moment. So, you know, while while I felt like my, every value in every fiber of my being was being challenged, and my voice had been taken away from me, and I felt so invisible and tiny, and like, I didn't matter, when she did that, and how she reacted when I busted her, which was worse, there is a little bit of that experience where I say, to myself, at least you had the presence of mind not to say everything that was in your mind, you know, I should have said something. And I know exactly what I'd say now and I use, this will be escalated, this is not appropriate. I don't want to press charges. But we're not this is not over. But But yeah, I didn't have that then all I had was the presence of mind to be quiet. If I want to keep being employed. One of the things that really spoke to me about that little story was you didn't speak up. And at that age, that level of experience, it totally made sense. But it didn't silence you. And so, you know, a lot of people would have that situation where they're enraged by this moment. And then they kind of lock it away and push it to the back and they keep going. And then the next moment, they do the same and they just keep doing the same. And before they know that they've got a 20 year career where they haven't sort of honored their own integrity. And it's hurt them as a person. And I think, you know, when they go and do this self work, sometimes it's it's recognizing how much of that they've been allowed to happen. They've kind of they've lost their sense of self. This goes back to the values conversation, right? While you didn't say something at the moment, you did take on board the lesson and got stronger for it. So sometimes that's okay, too. Right. But absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, it did get escalated in a different way. That night was the beginning of of me looking for a new job. Yeah, I no longer felt safe there. psychologic. Like, it wasn't psychological safety, as we know it today. That was, you know, I'm that old. But that wasn't a phrase that we painted around the office back then. But essentially, psychologically, I felt unsafe. And so it was the beginning of me looking for a new job. And during the exit interview, I did mention it to one above my person who forged my signature to say, this is why I'm leaving. The forging the signature was only one of two major incidents in that job. And when I brought those two incidents to that person's boss, their eyes just about bowed out their head, and they said, Why didn't you bring it up sooner? And I said, because I feared for my job. It was weird that I felt I could say it to this person. But I had nothing to lose them. I was already gone. You know, I'd already resigned. And so there was that safety net there. And so I would say if you're that green, and you're that, you know, unsure, then you really do have to sit there and think about how safe is it for me to do this. And thankfully, organizations many not all and there's a long way to go for some you know, but in countries like where I live in Australia, you know, there are systems in place where it's much cipher to actually speak out. Yeah, it's getting better. Definitely getting better than you know when we first started out. All right. Okay, so where can people buy your book? They can buy it on the website, Sally folly Lewis calm, you know, they can also head over to this little bit late code bi T dot L y forward slash spark the book. Yeah, I will also put it as a link in the in the podcast notes to your website. So I'm running it down to Okay, and where can they connect with you? Oh, anyway, there's only one of me in as well, which I think is fantastic. You google Sally Foley Lewis, and you will find me on the Lincoln's there, which is probably the best place to find me. Yeah, you're lucky only being one of you. I've got a an actress, and a lady who murdered her two children and committed suicide in the process. So the three of us compete for the front page of Google without with my name. Wow. Okay. I don't really know how to respond. Yes. Oh, my gosh, I added the T in the middle for my LinkedIn name. So at least I can have some space without those other two people in the middle of it. But yeah, yeah. There's a Sally folly. But there's no Sally folly, Louis. Sorry. And Sally Follies. I think she's a reporter. But no, no one that I'm competing with. There's a murder suicide or an actress though. Yeah, you win. Yeah, that's, that's great. It's great having competition, but I compete fairly well, especially against a Hollywood actress. I'm your legend. Oh, title legend. Yeah, of course. Just like you try to do my best in the world, and not always getting it right. But trying to enjoy the journey. Well, I do it right. And sometimes getting it wrong is is ends up being the right thing. To learn, you know, a couple of bruises here and there, if you will. And I firmly believe if you're well intended, the bruises don't last as long. Yeah, yeah. That's a bit lapse in a bit flippant. But, you know, I think if your intentions are true, yeah, you're halfway there? Absolutely. Absolutely. I would say when you know, when you put your voice out there on social media, remember why you're there? What's your intention for showing up. And if you can sit in the intention, rather than anything else, you're not that it's not about accolades. It's not about attention. It's about your intention, to get a message across that you think is going to make the world or your community or your family, whatever, it is a better place. It's the intention that matters always. And when I even, you know, when when people remind themselves of what value they really want to operate in, and come back to that and just let that seep in for a bit. It shows up, you know, we're already in February, can you believe it? In 2022, and when we're recording this, and so, you know, all those New Year's resolution II type things have all done their bit, and we've all forgotten about them. Cabrales. But, you know, as a year wraps up as sorry, ramped up as every year ramps up as it does, you know, people start to get into old habits, and they forget about maybe what their intention of this year was going to be. And I did myself only, you know, this week where I went, hang on a minute, breathe, calm down. What is the intention? And the minute I actually sat and let that breathe through me. That day, I got exactly what the universe heard me the universe heard me and delivered, which I know can sound woowoo. But, but it was a reminder of my intention. And that when we when we do act and operate from our true intentions and our values, they show up. Very wise advice, my friend. All right, Sally Foley Lewis, the legend, the fabulous woman, one of my favorite people in the world. Thank you so much for doing this with mean really, I really do appreciate it. I'm going to spend more time with your book because I think it's such an important topic. And I love the way you communicate it. And I just wish you success always because you deserve it. And I know you're well loved. For the work you do in It's well deserved. So thanks for joining me telling Andrew you are a legend and you makes me wiser so thank you. I appreciate you. Two kind. Alright guys, we'll speak soon. Thank you