The Know Show – without peace, do we have a future?

Welcome back after a short break from The Know Show, and this week we’re going to tackle a big topic - how can we secure our future if we cannot secure peace? Were you aware that we have as much war and unrest today as we did before World War Two? We cannot take this moment lightly and pretend everything is fine because it isn’t. In fact, it's a very tense and dangerous time. 

Today, all of us must work as hard as we can to get the world focused on peace, all while moving into emergency mode for our planet, because that's where our attention is required, for all our sakes. What has happened in Israel/Palestine in the last few weeks has the potential to blow up the entire Middle East region, and it won’t stop there. The rumblings for wider war and unrest have already begun. Will we be so foolish? 

War is a disaster in every way, but it is devastating for the natural world, and our natural world is teetering on the edge already. We must speak up and change our paths, or the escalation we’ve been experiencing with wild weather and major die-offs will continue to accelerate.

To help us dig into this topic, we are very happy to welcome Brigadier Sushil Bhasin to join us. Sushil is a military-inspired leadership and team building expert, who delivers global keynote speeches, has spoken on the TEDx stage, he’s a futurist, thought leader and author, and honestly, we couldn’t think of a better guest for the topic we will be grappling with this week. 

The Know Show is a Livestream held every fortnight on Friday, where Andrea T Edwards, Tim Wade and Joe Augustin, and at least one special guest, review the news that’s getting everyone’s attention, as well as perhaps what requires our attention. We’ll talk about what it means to us, the world and we hope to inspire great conversations on the news that matters in the world today. 

The Know Show is based on Andrea T Edwards Weekend Reads, which are published every Saturday on andreatedwards.com, and covers the climate crisis, topical moments in the world, global politics, business, social issues, and passion/humor/history. Join us. 

#TheKnowShow #UncommonCourage

To get in touch with me, all of my contact details are here https://linktr.ee/andreatedwards

My book Uncommon Courage, an invitation, is here https://mybook.to/UncommonCourage

My book 18 Steps to an All-Star LinkedIn Profile, is here https://mybook.to/18stepstoanallstar

Transcript

0:04

Welcome to the No Show. My name is Andrea Edwards. And, to the right of me or down the middle is supposed to be Tim Wade, but he's a no show so far on the No Show. Yeah. Or at least oh, there he is. Hello. Hey. I'm Tim Wade. Yes. And I'm Joe Augustine. Welcome to the No Show. It's a show that tries to Get a a more well rounded perspective on on all kinds of issues. And today, I think we'll try something a bit different as well. Usually, we go through Whole bunch of things covering a whole lot of things. This time, I think we're gonna stay a little bit more focused, on our main topic. And we always want to have a diverse, viewpoint on things and a relevant viewpoint on things. So for that, we have with us our 4th member of the No Show today, Brigadier Sushil Basin, who's had some 34 years with the experience with the Indian Army since retired and, I think, onto a speaking career. Welcome along, Sushil. Thank you very much. Thank you, and I'm so happy to be on this show. We're happy to help you. And I'm glad that it's the k n o w show and not the n o show. That is true. Consonants are important. Yeah. Absolutely. So, Cheryl, do you wanna do you wanna give us a little bit more background about, You know who you are and what you've done in the past as well as what you're doing now. So, I experienced military leadership in the Indian Army for 34 years. I started with the infantry where I was there for 5 years, and then due to some medical reasons, I shifted into the logistics core. So most of my time means about 29 years went into logistics. In 2004, after spending 34 years, my love for children and my exposure to education made me shift, and I, prematurely took retirement to transform people's lives. And for the last 19 years, I've been using my military leadership experience in the business And corporate leadership as well as in the educational leadership. So that's what I'm into. And it's only, I mean, I kept doing training all these years, But speaking came to me only in 2008 when I realized that there was another completely different thing called professional speaking. And that's how I've landed up with, APSS and PSCI, and I'm so I'm so happy that I did that. Nice. Alright. So should we sort of sort of set some context about what we're gonna talk about today? So We're obviously gonna be attempting to tackle a very big topic. How can we secure our future if we cannot secure peace? And, really, this isn't about the war between Israel and Palestine. It's a it's a much bigger topic, although, of course, we're gonna be talking about that. So before Hamas attacked Israel, did you guys know that the state of the war a state of war and conflict in the world was equivalent to pre World War two? Did you did were you aware of that? Yeah. So, we're already sort of moving into some pretty serious times from a war perspective, and we can't take this moment lightly, and think everything is fine. Even though it looks like a lot of the world is carrying on like with business as usual, We've moved you into a very tense and dangerous time. So that's what we wanted to do here today is really sort of talk about various aspects and, what's going on and looping some of the biggest stories together. So, I figured the best place to start is just maybe our impressions of what's been going on. I'm happy to kick it off unless somebody else wants to go first. Uh-huh. Go ahead. Yeah? Alright. So For me, these last few weeks have been, pretty interesting. So when Russia invaded Ukraine 18 months 18 months ago now, I was really beside myself for months because I look at everything through the layer of of climate collapse. So everything that's happening and all the decisions that have been made and the wars that are happening, I look at it through that lens, so it gives me a very different perspective. And then back at that time, I I I I I was just in shock, you know, that we could even be possibly thinking about this and it was such a dangerous, a step for humanity to be taking to be taking, you know, and I just thought how can we be so stupid when all of our focus needs to be on restoration, of the natural world. So 18 months later here I am, I'm not going through that same grief process because I'm almost resigned to the stupidity that we're seeing around the world. But when Hamas attacked, it all Sort of happened so quickly. I think the whole world was in a state of shock because, you know, how could this happen to Israel? Israel, of all the nations on earth that could suffer something like this. And then the stories obviously started to come out and they were horrible, terrible, disturbing stories of atrocity and we were seeing the worst of humanity. Hamas, the way it behaved, it was brutal, ugly, and based on their actions, they Obviously, I have no desire for peace at all. And, you know, how can you negotiate with people who are capable of such acts? And, you know, they weren't even pretending to hide it. They were putting it up on social media. So you know? But I think one of the things is because everything happened so quickly, We didn't have time to mourn with the Israelis. I don't know if you remember post 911 because 911 has been used a lot, and I don't think it's, and equivalents. But there was there was a I was in America at the time. I was in Boston. There was a deep time of mourning in America after it happened before the next things Happened. But I think this is having a very, very deep impact on the Israeli and the wider Jewish community, especially the people I'm I'm connected with. And they They're they're expressing, the a feeling of being very, very alone and unsupported right now, even We now our governments from our own countries are supporting Israel and its right to self defence, but the but the individual, Israelis are not feeling that they're getting that Support from us, and we are also seeing that in the actions and protests around the world. So, obviously, when this all kicked off, it obviously started up a global conversation and the rockets started raining down on Gaza rapidly. And today, I think it's more than 5,000 dead. It could be higher now and at least half the dead of children in Palestine. So it's opened up yet another divide in the world, and everyone is once again screaming at each other, but no one is listening. There's also an incredible amount of ignorance out there on on on in both the media and on social media, and we're all being rammed with people who don't She know what they're talking about. So Yep. Here we are. That's true. Right? Here we are facing this potential of escalation, which could result in an explosion of death across the Middle East, and this is something we just can't allow to happen. We have to find the path to peace. We have to because this has the potential to take us all down. So peace peace is our only path forward. I think people who are not on the extreme end, left and right of politics, we are the majority, and we've gotta come together. We've gotta bring our world together. Otherwise, if we don't, we're just gonna be hastening our demise. So that's kind of my initial sort of, takeaway of what we've seen in the last few weeks. Tim, what are your thoughts? I mean, I I I I think I'm frustrated about the the respond I'm frustrated about people taking sides and then using this for their political agendas. That's what that's what I and they're taking sides from a From, I don't mind people having an opinion and having having a political bent, I suppose, in one perspective. But This was this was not an, an escalation of a conflict. This was a a terrorist activity, a quite a clear terrorist activity That demanded a a some sort of response, and we can debate about whether or not The response needed to be the way it was, but I don't know whether that's gonna necessarily help. And And I and I'm my concern is we've had such a period of and, you know, depending on where you are in the world, you Depending on where you are in the world, you will reject this comment. But such a period of global peace, yes, there's been National confrontations across borders and and things like that in lots of different parts of the world. There's been some atrocities in areas of Africa and Asia as well. But from a global level, this this second major conflict, That we've seen this it it's dangerous because of who, who are linked to to the to Israel and to Ukraine in particular, from a from a, Who their allies are with and who who that could trigger actions from. So the 1st 2nd World Wars, a lot of the A lot of the the other countries came into it because of the deals with regards to alliances that they were forced to enter into those sorts of conflicts. And those Alliance deals now. It's it's just we're on a bit of a precipice. And I I I share your concern with regards to the climate side because the climate any sort of climate statement or Presentation right now will find its way not even probably in a in a in mainstream news. It'll be relegated to something Very back burner y or not even not even on anyone's agenda at all because this is the topic de jure. So I'm, I I I'm concerned, but the peace and conflict have been 2 sort of, Opponents for millennia, and this is this is, I guess, what we're gonna talk about today. Yeah. Joe? I've been concerned about the, expression of, opinions without enough Context at about without enough knowledge. Yeah. It's not just the it's not just about expressing the opinion. It's about the, I would say, harsh, pointed, very partisan, kinds of, responses, which have come from from from, I mean, surprising quarters. And also in in terms of, I think in terms of, in terms of tone deafness, some of it has been quite incredible. You know, like, my I mean, when when I when I When I heard about the letters, the letter that was signed by all these Harvard students, you know, and and what and what they said about things, It it had to be something that was almost to me, it just it just it just impossible to know about how Horrific the actions were to respond to it with that sort of, with that sort of thing. I mean, that that that response Isn't the kind of thing that goes along with the happening? You know? It's a it's a tragedy. It's It's, certainly on both sides. Certainly, everybody, has taken losses, and there there there some It just it just bizarre that that is what we think is appropriate at this time, you know. Are you talking about the letter The letter that the Palestinian supporters at Harvard wrote? Yeah. They're they're basically the basic. Oh, the Vox Well, basically, what what what it is, they put the the whole they label the whole thing, on Yeah. On Israel. I said, Isaac, you know, I after after the Yeah. The incursion and and all that happened, at at the at the beginning of it, not just, not not just after all the action the responses. I I mean, in terms of context, if if this had come much later, maybe I would think that that that that that it it It it built up and got to the point where maybe that response might be appropriate. But this response is right at the start when, basically, you know, there was a surprise attack, and there were all these people, that were injured, you know, and and and not just I mean, injured and killed in in in horrific ways. To have that Response come up, in terms of a letter that that that was, you know, that it just it just surprising to me that how how people are willing to to do that. I I don't not understand, people's feelings about it. I do understand, there there are a lot of people I know who had their feelings about the, the conflict intentions in the area. And I know where where they stood with their sympathies. But I think I think there's a difference, between having a political, view on things and then, having a response which which is, to be honest, in inhumane, if you if you if I'm allowed to say that. I I know that's gonna be contextually very it's it's a dicey word to use because there there's there's so much action that's come out out of this, which can be deemed as inhumane as well. But, you know, for people who are not involved in the conflict, the inhumane responses, that that's just, something that's been bothering me. Yeah. Actually, I'd like to add to that. The other thing that's really been bothering me about it is, the My thinking has moved to what does this mean for our voice and how our comments A dinner a dinner party comment, for example, or a dinner table comment that we might make may be like, oh, well, no. And then we'll have a bit of about it. And then you may leave that dinner party with a different opinion because you get to hear it. But when you're making these decisions online, It's there forever, and and it's like people are losing their job. And all all of that sort of stuff that there's such a Unforgiveness with the technology in the world at the moment that People some young kids may not be realizing how much damage they're doing to their future with a Possibly poorly thought out or ill conceived signature. And Yeah. So that's the other thing. And then, of course, the response that came in with the doxing, I just thought, That's really interesting as well from, how this is being funded To silence people. So I don't regardless of whether or not their their comments were inhumane, Just that heavy handed silencing from in in kind of an appalling way. Because you take somebody aside. You'd say, look, I don't really think that tell me a little bit about let's have this guy. I think you should remove your signature from that rather than The billboards on backs of trucks going through the college with your photo on it saying you're an anti Semite, for example. So I'm not supporting what they said. I'm just not in in Endorsing that response to something that needs counseling, not shaming. Because shaming will usually solidify a position rather than help. Yeah. Consider an opinion To then educate and then move people forward to go how can we deal with this in a sensible ray way rather than in an in a confrontational way. Because that's still confrontation. We're we're dealing with confrontation with confrontation, and there's gotta be another way. Yeah. I'm I'm gonna pull up an article just a little bit later where we're gonna be talking about, You know, sometimes it's alright to shut up. You know? That's that's the the point, you know, that seems to like, the the lack of thought in Putting positions out there with so little knowledge and awareness of the long, long history of of a region, you know, that, Yeah. Has has been struggling. So, Cecile, it looks like we got lots of your lots of people who admire you have joined us today, and they're saying hi in the comments. So we got Ramiz, Anil, team BSB, I think that's I I can't see some of the other names. But, anyway, so so she'll see what I know. Yeah. Exactly. I know you've, you've you've been traveling this last week, so you might not be on top of everything that's going on at the moment. But, what what what do you what what's your takeaway so far of what's been going on and how it's being handled? So thank you, Andrea. Thank you for getting me on this show. What I would say right in the beginning is that, even though I got into the army, you know, I went into a military school when I was just 10. So I can say that I have a military mind. But even while being in the army for, I would say, in that case, if I use my school and my NDA training and all, it would be about 42 years. And even in those those 42 years while I was in uniform, I always had a very peaceful mind. I thought that the army was necessary, but fighting was not necessary. Mhmm. And, I always, you know, had this question that why do we have to, as human beings, fight with each other, kill each other, and be so inhuman, when we can coexist peacefully. And to the extent that I was on the border in, J and K, there's a place called Poonch where a lot of fighting takes place between India and Pakistan. And in that, my daughter in summers, you know, they allow families to come in, and my family had come to this Post, we call it, the the forward post. From where, there was a military German or military soldier talking about, you're explaining where Pakistan is and where India is. And my daughter was in class 6, and she wrote an essay Saying, god never divided a mountain. That mountain belong to the humanity, and why are we saying that half of that mountain is in Pakistan and half of it is in India? With that mindset of peace, I'm saying that today it pains me to see why people After so many years, you know, this one thing you said in the beginning, after all the advancement and we are so proud today To say that we have advanced technologically and this and that, and we are so proud of man going on the moon and all, But what is the use if we are back to pre second world war stage when it comes to the unrest in the world? It's of no use all these all these achievements fall flat when we have not been able to grow as human beings. That is a big question in my mind. Yeah. So I see that today, all that, Tim and Joe have Very, very, very, interesting facts that they brought out. Look at this information war that is going on. The war where intelligence and social media is being misused To an extent to pollute people's minds and draw them into certain things, draw them into a trap of biased opinions and meet their political agendas. And this has become such a dirty game. So all I say is that, you know, yesterday, I was in Singapore, and I was at the, at the Temasek Polytechnic. And I was standing and talking to the, senior manager there about, UN sustainability goals. That was a Big board there, and that is one of the emphasis of that department. And I've been speaking on, UN sustainability goals at at various On one hand, we have an agenda to create a climate of peace. And on the on the other hand, we are diverting our attentions into killings. And what has happened recently, Whether it was in the Ukraine war or in the present Hamas Israel war, it's total inhuman. How can you do These things too, ladies, children, little children who haven't even said who have not even uttered the word Dad in their life have gone. I mean, how how, you know, inhuman is it? So that is my initial, take on what's happening right now. Yeah. No. It's sad. So we were talking about misinformation, and I think that's a really, really important A global team of information trackers sort of formed. They weren't even employed. And, basically, what they did was Making sure that the information that was being used about the war between Russia and Ukraine was correct, and they were, help and, basically, they became a major source for the media around the world. And it's basically, They they they've been incredible. Right? But in Israel and Palestine, we just don't have the same level of clarity. Now it could be because be because Israel is notoriously secretive, you know, it especially with its information, but The amount of misinformation being shared is really, really crazy. So, for example, I'm following this 1 guy on Twitter who's everyday sharing, Misinformation that's being spread. And one one example is a video that's being shared, and millions of people have been looking at it, but it was a video of Syria 6 years ago. So this person is working really hard to make sure that it's not, being misinformation isn't being accepted. So A big story, obviously, in the last few weeks was the bombing of the hospital in Gaza. Now apparently from what I understand, Israel claimed responsibility and then deleted the tweet. That's my understanding. But by this time, the whole of the Middle East and the world was in uproar, but then some other possibilities came to light. Maybe it was a Hamas rocket that misfired and landed on the hospital. But because there's no transparency and no trust, whatever actually really did happen may never be believed, even with countries in the west backing it up, like the UK has put out a report saying it was a Hamas rocket. The US has put out a report, but they're not being trusted because They're on the side of Israel. Right? So, but the the lack of trust, is a real risk in this war, and it's where, you know, escalation can can definitely happen and you kinda wonder, we've got an opportunity here. How do we How do we bring the parties to the table? You know? How can Israel bring, people from the Middle East in to be watching the decision making process. And I know that's a a big call, but we've gotta do something about the mistrust and the misinformation that's being being shared because I think it it it's a very, very dangerous challenge. What are you guys what are your guys' thoughts on that? You're muted, Joe. I like to I like to, step in and say here That you know when, when technology is used to manipulate and, and use your agenda to divert people's minds and pollute people's minds And take them away from reality is something that is very, very dangerous to humanity, in the long run. And if we are looking at peace, that is devastating and, it is more destructive than anything else. Now information exists and, information is normally confused by People as intelligence. So information and intelligence are 2 different things. Information exists in bits and pieces. Somebody needs to connect them, and then there's a process of assessment and analysis. And when you Analyze, then you come to intelligence. When these people do all this, they do other assessment, they do the analysis, and then Create a false picture and pollute people's minds. That is what probably is happening across Every conflict that's happening and that is more dangerous than the war itself because the destruction that is happening because of the war, whether it's lives, it's Material, it's buildings, infrastructure, everything is going, for a sec. But The seeds that are being sown in the human minds across the world, you know, thousands of miles away, people don't know that they they don't see that devastation happening. But what they are made to feel, particularly by these organizations, is something which is of high concern. I like that distinction between information and intelligence. Joe? I was gonna say, I I'm not sure if you can really, really do all that much, about it because we we're The the the core of it is human beings. Right? Everybody a a lot of the stuff that happens. In fact, if you if you'd look at how information spreads or misinformation spreads, it's the people doing what they think is a good thing. They're not they're not they're usually trying to misinform. I mean, the source the the the author or the creator of it, maybe maybe, looking for attention, may have the, may have, nefarious Intentions, whatever it is. But, usually, what what what it lives on or what it, is propelled by actually had the good intentions of people after that. So someone who thinks that this is a horrible thing about a truth, that needs to be spread. And therefore, they they they push it on and and and and they carry it forward. And then what happens to the next step is, of course, then doubling down. And and and, you know, once you said something and you you you've you've believed something, it takes a lot to help you to it takes a lot for you to say that. No. That I I was I was wrong about that. That's completely not right. And then to maybe even say that I was fooled into it, and then You you just can't catch up with it. So the I I I feel as far as as as As information goes, there there really is no winning because there there is no way that you're going to say that this is absolutely the truth. You the the line for credibility, is constantly redrawn. I mean, like, even if you talk about, the the social media people in, in Ukraine. Right? I mean, the the thing about that is, They they're accused of and and and and and it's believed as well that they have some bias because whatever whatever the truth happens to be, it's conveniently gonna be in someone's favor. It's never gonna be just like a, you know, a a totally balanced shit show. It's gonna be you know, it's it's it's It it looks like someone did something more, something less, and then you go, like, well, then there's a there's a there's a there's a good chance that there's some some kind of conspiracy going on. You know, that's that's the problem with it. So it's it's a case of, really, Russia winning its big play for Way back in the seventies, I mean, the whole the whole idea of misinformation is actually to create distrust and the inability for people to think, that something is true or isn't true, and therefore, it's harder for people to make decisions to stay unified. And that's kind of where we are right now. So we we we have our pre our preset notions of things. Very few of us are willing to say, okay. Let's let's Pause for a moment, pick up everything and and and find out where we are. And then say, therefore, at this point, I think this is likely, But I'm still open to be wrong about this. And and then back to the thing that was mentioned earlier about, you know, we we we can also shut up. And and that and that is something which unfortunately is The problem today with social media in the sense that, you know, like, something big happens, your friends say something about it. We we we we don't get posts on social media that say, you know, this thing that's happening, I don't know what's happening about it. I need to find out more. It's it's never that kind of a post. It's always some sort of opinion and almost always borrowed from somebody else. Yeah. Oh, well, that's badly badly slapped together with the wrong images. Let me, let me take you to the New York Times article. So it's journalist Elizabeth Spears, and she's a contributing opinion writer for the New York Times. And she wrote an article titled posting about Israel and Palestine is not a moral obligation. Let me just take you through one of the, one of the paragraphs because it really spoke to me. So there's a facile version of taking a stand on social media that generates righteous Back padding that reduces complex complex issues to a simple yes or no. Taking simplistic stands can also lead to twisting words. Concern for Palestinians is portrayed as support for Hamas or hatred towards Israel or Jews in general. Anger about Hamas' deadly attacks on Israeli citizens or any mention of anti Semitism is portrayed as denigrating the dignity of all Palestinian lives. This kind of thinking is deeply unserious and further fuels hostilities, warping nuanced positions into extremism A mistaking tweet length expressions of outrage for brave action in the face of atrocity. And I I I mean, I thought that was really good and She went on because, basically, she was attacked because she didn't put an opinion out there. And, she said I don't think I should, and she goes, It's the idea that not posting is wrong somehow, that everyone needs to speak all the time, and it discourages shutting up I'm listening and letting the voices that matter the most be heard over the din. And one of the reasons that really spoke to me is because, you know, there's a there's several people that I listen to for various levels of expertise, and I have great respect for them. And I have saw a lot of them starting to speak up about the situation, You know, as part of my 20 year mission to understand why we have religion and god in the 1st place, I'm I'm a person that's very interested in the history of religion. I've been to Israel. I've been through Gaza. I you know, I'm and I've actively pursued knowledge, for a long time, but I'm not an expert. I'm just interested. Right? So I haven't been speaking up. And when I hear these people speaking up who speak on different topics, I just wanna say shut up. I don't wanna hear you. I don't wanna hear you, and you're getting in the way of me finding the people that I wanna listen to. And that's, to me, has been the really big problem. It's just like because it's like there's nothing of value being added to the conversation from these people who who I knew you're on sort of touching the edges of it. You know, Yuval Nuhari, he's someone I've been listening to a lot, and I think been very considered and very elegant in the way he's been speaking, but there's so many people just talking, and it's really like, Think about think about it before you go out there. Like, think about what you share. If it's if it's Something very deeply, emotionally charging to you, that's a good sign to stop and really think about what it is. Is it true? If it's a video, and and you can't see where the source of the video is, look for it. Go and look for it because you can find it. You know? We've we The speed it's the speed speed speed speed of everything in our lives, you know, fast food, fast fashion, fast everything, but it's also fast information. And I think the only way we can tackle it because the the providers of this information, the social media companies aren't doing anything about it. So we've got to start taking responsibility in what Joe was saying. You know, it's critical thinking, you know, is a skill. It's a A rare school these days, unfortunately, but it's a skill, you know, so that I think they'll they'll shut up. And if you don't know what you're talking about, you don't need to add to it. You don't. I think the I think that the problem currently is everybody's going to, you know, Hustlers school. And being told you gotta stay relevant, you gotta stay relevant, you gotta stay relevant. And the topic of The trending topic of conversation is the war, so you gotta talk about it to be relevant and stay in front of your followers and get new followers. And it's just it's appalling when when it it's just a it's appalling when it's We're we're pretty much exactly what you said. It's appalling when people are taking a stand based on a position That they don't know anything about, but they're saying it just to be relevant and to gain more followers. And I just think There's something horribly wrong with the economic, and social media world when when that is our play To to try and make a few extra bucks. And I think, you're you're basically I don't I don't really blame the social media agencies for not doing much in one sense because their entire platform is to go speak. So in one sense. In another sense, there is a there is a responsibility to a degree, or there's a way that they can somehow Have curation. I mean, I I don't quite know how, but, but this is where is gonna be a big is is the big currency, and it's the one that, is is a difficult one to to find. It's where it's where there's such a great opportunity for media agencies, not social media platforms, but media agencies, responsible journalism, to To really be the curators of considered opinion. Mhmm. And that's where I think from newspapers into this into the Internet and now into the social media world, they really missed a huge opportunity To be the curators of Trusted Considered Opinion. And and we're we're now they're grappling We're trying to be relevant and and make this our own model work, but yeah. I I just I I find it disgusting, The need to be oh, mind you, we're doing a show on we're doing a show on the ward now. And so is is it because it's We're trying to be relevant, or it is a topic of conversation and we're trying to update people with the news? It's a bit of both, really. So It's like it's it's there's a fine line, and some people are crossing it, I guess. Yeah. It's funny. You're more cynical. I I The the idea of likes and followers, I I kinda I I I don't it's it's the sense of obligation that you have to have an opinion on everything. That's what I feel is out there. So, you know, one one of the other comments in that article in New York Times, she was talking about a fashion editor We're saying that the the the fashion industry needs to, you know, make a stance. But who cares what L'Oreal or Louis Vuitton thinks? You know? Yep. Why why why do we live in a world where that belief exists? You know? Like because it's influenced. We've lost our way. Right? Yeah. But we're losing our way or we've lost our way a long time ago. But, I mean, it's to me, I think what I really wanted to talk about today was, I mean, this this is all part of the biggest story of the the chaos that we've got in the world and, you know, misinformation, the the the influencer model as you were talking about, if people feeling obligated to have an opinion about things that they just don't have knowledge and and all the right to share on. I think everyone I mean, there's a lot of there's outrage. Right? And there's there's babies dying as people are angry about that. Like, I get, Like, we get all of that. Right? But sit back. Be considered the considered opinion that you mentioned there. Hello? Joe? Cecile? Yeah. No. I think I agree with you, and I agree You know, what Tim has said and what you said is very relevant. And, I'll go on to also saying that when, When the public opinion is diverted in a particular way with And aim to disrupt things. And, and what I'm again, sort of reinforcing That the intention goes against humanity. The intention is to create a rift. The, intention is to create conflict. So when you are talking about peace, you also have to have a very good system of conflict resolution, And that is really speaking not existing today in the world. Particularly organizations like the UN have Really failed. They have not been able to resolve conflicts at all. So conflict resolution is another issue that is, not in place today to see that things like this don't happen. So a question to you. Do you think the UN has failed, Or do you think the UN the UN hasn't been supported enough to succeed? Because I think they're 2 different things. I think it's both ways. It is both ways. I think UN has, not been able to exert itself. And, yes, UN has also not been supported, because it is, really speaking, a collective effort of every country to to chip in, if you want to have a peaceful world around you. Yeah. Alright. So what sorry, Joe. Did you wanna add to this Before I was just gonna say that that the the UN hasn't failed. It has basically done what it can given its design. It's been designed badly. Yeah. It was, it was was relying on the the the higher values of a few, visionary people and put into the hands of a of of the a globe that isn't quite the Same, in terms of, its ability to do things. And the the design was poor because it also, it it it gave vetoes to to to certain parties, which essentially has made it, you know, unduly influenced in what it could really try and do as well. So it it's a it's an organization that it has good intentions, But its design, really teaches the countries, that are that are involved in the processes that there are certain things that are possible, and the and the audacious things that you wanna try and do Can't be done, because, you know, certain major levers are just not in your hands. Yeah. But, you know, Joe, I would say that it has failed in any case. Whether it failed because of the design, whether it failed because of efficiency, those are reasons why it failed. But design may be a reason, But the result is failure, and that cannot be disputed. Yep. Yep. Although, I think Antonio Guterres is certainly trying his best to use his voice to drive positive change in the world. I really admire what he's been doing in the last few weeks and in the last few years. So, another one another topic that I wanna bring up is, what happens when you allow your country to be divided? And to me, this is one of the biggest takeaways of what we are seeing in the world. And I think if we don't get this lesson, we'll be stupid. So, We've got the both the extreme right and the extreme left pulling us apart, and it's important that we say both. And, I think what happened in Israel Should be a wake up call for everyone. So in the last 12 months, we've seen the protests right across Israel. Netanyahu's far right push, we all know about his Legal challenges, and he's also created massive mistrust in the institutions. So, basically, this meant everyone's eye was off the ball, and we're seeing the outcome of what happened. And it's happening because of the extreme division in the country as well as the eroding trust in institutions, which without them you can't run a country successfully. But how many other countries are in this place allowing populism to drive a wedge through their countries. And, you know, while what's happened in Israel might not be what happens To western countries who are equally divided, I think it's a sign that something catastrophic could happen to those countries. So And then you combine this with the then you combine this with the environmental impacts that we're seeing around the world, heat, Extreme weather events, drought, famine, inflation. Well, you know, I think things are gonna get Messy very, very soon. And and, you know, if you've been studying sort of the environmental collapse that's been happening for a number of decades and you've been looking and reading the predictions. One of them is exactly what's happening in the world right now. The breakdown of civil order, the breakdown of Economies, the breakdown of nature is is all part of the story, and we're sitting right now in the middle of it. And what we now have to do is say, Is this the path we wanna take? Because it's a path of destruction. It will just make everything happen faster. Maybe that's a good idea. I don't know. But, Or do we choose the other path where we come together in peace and we as as a as a global society, and we really fight for that because to me, from everything I'm seeing, it's our only choice. Tim, you look like you're thinking. Yeah. I'm glad I can, convey that. The, I'm worried that the world can't do that, Andrea. I'm worried that the that with 6, 7,000,000,000 people, If the environmental issues happen as fast as they think they might, there's gonna be an awful there's gonna be a scramble to protect what you have while others need help. And and if let's just look at COVID. COVID told us what we're gonna do. We all rushed and bought far too much toilet well, we didn't. I mean, but People rushed and bought far too much toilet paper than they needed to make sure that they had it, Because they didn't know the other person who needed it. Yeah. They didn't know them. And and if I don't know you, I don't I don't care about you when it comes down to, fighting for, you know, my family's Toilet hygiene, for example. So that was COVID. Right? And so now let's now let's talk about mass migrations of millions of people, billions of people because of heat, climate catastrophe, and everything else, they'll be border locking, and then they'll be attacking. I mean, actually, if you wanna be really cynical, why has Russia attacked Ukraine for the food source? I mean, maybe. I don't know. Because if they've if they've gone, yeah. This is going crap. Could be. I don't I I mean, I'm just That's okay. I I I recommend in in one sense and in another sense. Russia's Russia's okay there. They're they're they're one of the big wheat producers. So Well And there's a and and and there's south then the south of of Russia is basically Fertile soil that the Chinese are coming in and and building their farm. So, you know If you control it, you control everything. You control the other people's supply. You control every anyway, but if you look at if you look at that side, and then you you, you know, it's I I just I my I guess my point is, I don't know whether the world will do what you say it's going to do. And so I think there'll be decision makers in the world thinking the same thing that based on our behavior, we're not gonna do that. Therefore, we need to arm up. And I and I and then that will be your you know, we'll be living in Cowbeville, again, I'm just wondering, you know, and then it'll be the powerful doing what they do. So that's that's a that's a bit of a depressing view of it, Which is which is not a happy view, which is possibly why there's this switch off mentality and go around business usual, hoping that it's not gonna happen and somebody will sort it out who's got some power and influence. And then we're back to the influence debate, who's got the power and influence, You know. So I I know that that doesn't paint a pretty picture, but that's the That's the the the human behavior side until you've got some moral compass guiding you that isn't money. Because I think one of the things about the the UN's failure is that its funding model means That there that, you know, there's a and and the the whole way that the the global geopolitics the the politics works from a From a lobbyist sort of perspective that's happening in different parts of the world, it it the money is talking, and it's It's gotta be a different compass. And, unfortunately, we're on a moral we're on a financial compass at the moment. That's the way that most people are operating. And until we shift from that to a moral compass, an ethical compass that is guided by something else other than cash, We're in a real mess. So if your 20 year quest leads you to that, that would be interesting. That's that's my sort of vague opinion. But, I mean No. But I it's depressing as it is. I think it's realistic, know? And I I have those conversations with people all the time, and we're not gonna change. We're not gonna do what we need to do because this is how we do things. This is how humanity is. Right? And I I get that. I've accepted that even though I I don't like it. So what but what is required is is It's something miraculous within the human spirit that, you know, we transcend. You know, you hear Carl Sagan talking about raising human consciousness. I call it raising planetary consciousness so we get back in alignment with that which sustains us. You know? The importance between human Health and well-being and nature's health and well-being together is what we need. So do we accept, you know, that we've read research, 30% of the Population, sitting in the narcissistic, sociopathic sort of will will take everything until there's nothing left. But there's 70% of us who aren't like that. So is it time for us to rise rather than just sitting back, being silent, stepping away, Disengaging, which is what I'm seeing everywhere. So we do need something miraculous. But if we don't believe it's possible, We're never gonna see it. Right? So we need something. We need a new humanity. Then then then that the message needs to be That there needs to be a political a political force that harbors that view. Yeah. Because that's something that people can get behind, but we're not seeing that. We're seeing the animosity playing out again and again and again and again. I mean, you know? I think politics politics will follow it. It won't create it. Yeah. But it's We have to create it. The opportunity is to send it into into the political world to get To get that strength. Yeah. But the engine is good at at quashing that voice. So the 70% need to be very supportive. But the person that's the the team that's leading it needs to because the political machine will look for any skeletons in the closet, And the social media machine will blow that up. So it's just we're we're in a we we've created our own wall to keep us hemmed in. So we need to we need to help. And we need so the only way that we're gonna get past the social media history of people posting something Once when they weren't considering or whatever it is, is forgiveness. Mhmm. Is to and and from a from a perspective of sensibleness, in so far as, Yeah. I was 20 years old and stupid, and I said that or did that. Or it was 10 years ago, and I said that and did that. And I and I that is not my opinion today. And that we believe them. But then we've you know? So it's but it's it's a tough it's a tough one because we're looking for perfection in leaders, and they're not gonna be perfect. Yep. So we need to have that balance and then we gotta say, look, we're not perfect and I'm not perfect, but I've got a We've got a structure in our party that that if anyone goes beyond particular things or whatever, we will deal with it. And we'll deal with it properly. So then, you know but it's a tough one. It's a Yeah. It is. None of this is easy. Yep. But we but moving, you know, compassion versus cancel culture. Right? You know, we all make mistakes. We all say stupid stuff. We're all off the cuff. You know? We're emotional beings. But, Cecil and Joe, what do what do you what are your thoughts on this one? The divisions. I have this, aspect of consciousness that came up, And somewhere, I'm looking for a miracle because there has to be a miracle now where, Maybe some thought leader, maybe some Nelson Mandela, some Mahatma Gandhi coming and creating a consciousness in the world To, you know, to change things like, whatever people like Mother Teresa and all have done, to impact people and bring them into a peaceful State of mind. So when we talk about that consciousness, we talk about, how can we change the, thinking of human beings and bring them closer to the reality of being humans who can live peacefully, coexist peacefully. Along with that is a very important part of the environmental, degradation that is happening Where even, breathing normal clean air has become a challenge now, and it's becoming Becoming worse day by day. That's the that's the pity that if we were slowly progressing, it could have been encouraging. But on the contrary, it's becoming, worse, and, that is, again, a cause of concern. So put together, both the environmental issues and the, and the Anti human results that are happening from various things whether political or otherwise, that is A very serious concern, may not be as much for us, but certainly a lot for our children and grandchildren. They're good. For them, it's gonna be very challenging. Yeah. So we need to leave behind a better world, than what we are going to do now. Yeah. We certainly do. And I know where where about to you sitting? Are you in which which city in India? I'm in Mumbai. Yeah. Alright. So at this time of year, is it a bad bad time for pollution? Sorry? Is it a bad time for pollution there in Mumbai at the moment? Oh, yeah. There is there is there is pollution. There has been a significant in, improvement. Still the improvement is far far slower, than what it needed to be. So when we had got very clear indication somewhere in the eighties that we are getting late, we have not take paid any heed to it. And today, we are in 2023, and still, I know for 1, my daughter has become such a activist in it and, and we get, when she comes to my place, she gets, very violent if she sees paper being used and vestiges happening and All that plastic being used, and she is very mild. But, all that that is happening is happening very slowly. That's that's the issue. Yeah. So another another big issue that's obviously gonna emerge from this is, the impact on the global economy. And we're obviously already in a pretty bad state, as far as inflation goes, cost of food, cost of basics and necessities. So that's Already creating problems around the world. Joe, do you wanna so what are you seeing around that? Well, I was just having this my daughter actually on the way to school for an economics class. And with I I I tried to engage her in this conversation as well. You know, the the the the global economy is obviously gonna encounter some difficulties. You know, they they're gonna be things that come in the way of things. But, you know, historically, the the the the one thing that really has driven, economies, has been war. It's Yeah. You know, it I mean, you know, every every every time there was, every Every time, you know, the the economies of the world were in doldrums, the the the the wars that came along after that seemed to really spice things up. You know? And I I, You know, it it's not necessarily about business as usual, but it's predictable business. As in, like, you know, in times of full scale war, for instance, industries that used to have to worry about marketing and success and things like that didn't have to because they were repurposed for for supplying, ready buying clients. So all their all their stocks that were they were producing of the new product, in the factories, was being consumed by a by a single client who was ready to to to to take all of it. You know? That so did you you had other So so so business is gonna find its solutions, as in business people or businesses, will will find their way. Washing machine manufacturers will become, you know, manufacturers of something else mechanical That is required for the war effort. But the the other part that suffers, of course, during war is this general psyche, the the the The way the minds are unable to to feel secure. And so some of the things business definitely the world the world's economy is gonna change in terms of its focus. Right. I mean, you know, leisure is gonna be something that is gonna be, is gonna fall, to the side for for quite a long while. It's gonna be a bit like how I think, when when when COVID first began as well. The the the usual things like restaurants and And and dining out. No. Those kinds of things that get get, pulled away. But there's also this thing about time and how how how time works with us. We we have our initial reactions. We're gonna do things a certain way. And if you look at markets and how they react to, the calamities, whether man made or not. There is a predictability to the human reaction to things. We get shocked by the initial thing, and then almost like clockwork, 90 days later, we're back In swing. Through. And, if that actually if that actually is something that that that is coming I I I find that we're We're returning back a or or reflexes now, are actually even quicker than before. I mean, if you look at what happens, with the with the, with the with the markets right now, markets get affected and then they bounce back a lot quicker As well. It it it it's going back to business as usual. And and that is really about the impact that something has on you For real. So I I I keep thinking about the 2nd World War, and I keep thinking about how most people remember the 2nd World War in the context of the end of the 2nd World War when it was everybody involved in that. And people don't really think about what happened Before America was sucked into it, you know, there there there was a lot of there was a lot of fighting going on all around the world, there were incursions everywhere. There were all kinds of things happening, but America wasn't sucked into it. And so there were a lot of people who weren't directly involved and and and pulled into this kind of thing. So that's currently, I think, what what's what's happened in this whole pre, Second World War thing that you speak about. That that that that is It has to be be taken into context as well. It's it's about the amount of people, the the the large number of people and number of countries Who was similarly uninvolved. Who was was similarly un directly were not weren't directly affected. You know, they had to say the right things, but they weren't really materially affected by it. And therefore, they stayed out of it and weren't really weren't really in it. So, I I think that what that's what happens for for, the environment as well. It's how people feel about that, and and definitely about this this this thing about the war. I mean, I I I look at it and go, okay, all kinds of things could happen here. We have other parties coming in. We have, countries that are that are more sympathetic to the Palestinian, political position, and and and they they seem to be Kinda getting involved as well. It it it could go off, but as long I mean, I mean, this is this is the thing that, Unfortunately, it's the the nature of man so far. We've done it over and over again. We need something Really bad to happen before something really good begins to happen. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about how science fiction has always shown you that, you know, what you what you want to save the environment is have civilization destroy itself. And if you look at even even if you look into, things like in the in in in in the in the middle Americas and all that, it's the same thing there as well. There there there are big cities in the jungle, I have become wonderful, thriving, botanical delights when civilization and the human beings there stopped. You know, it's it's it's we're in the way of it. We're not always helping, and that's one of the it's a it's a sim simple part of how we are, where We are we we interfere, with what's around us. We we're opportunistic. And, you know, I I think there is this thing about scarcity. We we we we think there's only gonna be so much because we have Had less before. And so when we arrive at the buffet table, we grab everything, and and and none of us are in the this metaphor is going in the the terrible direction, but none of us are in the in the in the kitchen putting things back out, you know. I I know Tim Tim's got a runoff because he's got an event to go to. Do do you wanna say something before you jump off, Tim? Yeah. Hey. Thanks for the chat. It's been a it's look. It's a really important issue. What's going on in the world is Not great. What's happening in in any conflict zone? If I I guess, the they one of the key messages that we're we seem to be talking about today is Think before you tweet or post or Endorsed. We didn't get to talk too much about the the Harvard part and what's going on there. But just, you know, think about, think before you do that, but at the same time, that doesn't mean be silent. That means Be considered and then voice. Because it's the way the world seems to be conditioning us is that we voice our opinion quickly, and then we better damn well defend it even if we're wrong. And that's not a great place to be. So we've we've also got to be willing to say, you know what, I was wrong about that. And and I'm glad I've I've had the opportunity to think about it a bit more since I made that sort of rash statement, for example. But within, we also need to be forgiving when somebody says that, And not sort of hanging up to dry. Otherwise, we're encouraging people not to do that. So, you know, we've gotta look at the human psychology part of it as well as the, moral and ethical part of it. And I think the cancel culture getting into into universities incorporate in in such a way From a lobbyist perspective, I think is what we're seeing in in in Harvard. It's just lobbyists. I don't think what what the students did was right, But I don't think the way that it's been handled is right. And, so I But it's interesting that it's had it's had the impact it has, and I think it's something that needs to be discussed. But I think we need forms to be able to have conversations like this. Those students who sign that thing need to be able to have a conversation with People with the opposing views without coming to fisticuffs or worse. You know, when everybody's armed and you're going to have a delicate conversation, people will get shot at the end of it. They need to go in disarmed and ready to have minds changed. I want my mind to be changed. You know, I don't want to be sitting here fixed. I want that's what learning in the growth mindset's about. What we're encouraging is a fixed mindset. Go and read Carol Dweck's mindset if If if thinking about the, you know, the way that we're thinking is, it it's so challenging right now. So I I just I I love the fact that we're able to have this conversation. I love it that we're not really, I I think the difference between this conversation and what we've been talking about Is that we're talking about the conversation, and we're not actually talking about the conflict. And and I think that that's That's the difference. And so that's what I like about where we're coming from, and and we're just encouraging people to think And be critical thinkers. But then at the same time, we're encouraging people to vote, because that's Now put in power people who are willing to make the decisions that may be difficult, but that need to be done, And support those people in other parts of the world that you don't have a vote for. Support them with your voice to say, you know. But see, then then we're we're back into the agenda politics as well. So it's in a it's we're in a difficult space. But, anyway, actually, all that is is goodbye because I've gotta go. But Before before you go, Tim, I just wanna say how much I wanna live in a world where more Where more people say fisticuffs. No? Yeah. Yeah. We do. We we need fisticuffs to come back. No. Please. This must not come to fisticuffs. Yes. We're not done with 50 knots. Although I do think you're an income poop, please do not respond, you know, aggressively. Yeah. For example. Anyway, I I I bid thee farewell. I don't wish to stop the conversation because it's really important one to continue. Yeah. I shall Good morning, my friend. Adieu. Good We'll we'll see you in the coming weeks if you can. Tim's gonna be very busy, so it's gonna be hard for him to join, but he's gonna try. I will try it wise. I will be cheering you on from the sidelines, and I'll see you all again in January. Yeah. Nice. Cheers to work with all the work. Hi. Alright. So I I just I just wanna just before we, sort of wrap it up, I wanna talk about 3 bigger stories that are also happening at the same time. So I was talking about Yuval Harari, and, so he's the author author of Sapiens. If you haven't come across him, he's He's considered an intellectual. I enjoy I enjoy listening to him, and I think he's been a very consistent voice in the last few weeks in talking about The challenge from a, from an Israeli perspective, but in a very sort of balanced way. He'd he's this will all be in my weekend read. He had an View with, Rosemary Barton. I can't remember which channel. And he he basically raised the the the reality that if If the neighbors around Israel get involved in this and Israel's dealing with tens of thousands of bombs fly flying in into the country, that Israel will have no choice but to respond with nuclear deterrence. And, you know, so we've gone from 1 real nuclear threat to 2, in the last 18 months, and I found this a very, very sobering assessment of the risks that we face because Until I heard him say that, I hadn't really considered that nuclear could be an option, but, you know, in order for Israel to defend itself, it might have to become an option If the whole region erupts, have you guys got any thoughts on that? Yeah. So I have a challenge with. Yeah. So shall we go ahead. Yeah. So I've heard 2, 3 different perspectives of this, and everywhere, The pointing out to the fact that nuclear option could be considered, and each one of them have their own reasons of Compulsion to use that if nothing else is working is something which is of very, very great serious concern, And that brings me back to Andrea's point that are we going back to Hiroshima or are we going back to pre world war? And what is what have we done all these years to make things better, if we are still, still sort of trying to survive in a Environment like this. So, that is something which is, really worrying me. And I do feel that each one of us has to play a role like what, even Tim was saying that you you can't keep quiet about it. You have to put up your opinion. But also, and, you know, another thought that came to my mind is, that we as speakers Have a greater responsibility because we, as speakers, are also influencers, and we have the power of influencing people through our words. And therefore, it is important that we all get together to do something to create an influence around In the world where it becomes contagious and people, do consider humanity to be more important than anything else. Yeah. Joe? I frankly lost my train of thought. I was trying to think about something about yeah. Actually, I I was thinking about a couple of things. 1 is, 1 is the the the the irony of Our profession, right, as as as speakers, we're always informed. We always thought of in terms of being thought leaders. I I I was thinking about what might help the world, but it will never happen as as as many of my ideas are, what we need is social media to change the way we post. It should be something where, You know, there is, a button where after you hit right, it goes instead of publish, it goes to review. And I think there is a there is a possibility that if we have some platforms at least where review is allowed, or or at least, the the, maybe maybe, a panel of reviewers who, you know, have Some kind of ethical training or philosoph philosophical training. They they they they know how to assess, things a bit more, accurately. We we could have something interesting. I mean, basically, I'm I'm I'm I'm not describing something new. It's basically what the, you know, science reviews and, journals scientific journals, medical journals, all that are about as well. But I I just thought it'd be interesting if you felt that you had to defend what you say, before it even gets out into the wild, you know. So that there there is a little bit of that kind of, thinking and and and You don't just go like, you know what? I really feel this is the case. This is the way this this this is or or I don't have any proof of this, but this is what I wanna put out. And then you know that there's gonna be a test. There's gonna be a need to prove what is being said. I mean, I think Maybe AI could help. I mean, AI could be could be part of our our conversations in future. I don't know whether, you know, governments Can can ever come by and and try and do that, but I think, it would be interesting if there could be legislation of some kind that would make, AI fact checking, perhaps, even, something that's a necessity for for for certain things. I mean, I'm I'm, of course, as I as I'm saying it and as as it was leave my lips, I'm I'm I'm seeing all the problems that I'm creating with the solution. But it's something that that we kinda need. I mean, it's it's a it's an ironic World that we need to be in. We need to be in a world that is free because it is being held down by, being held together by a benevolent, very powerful dictator. You know, I think, yeah, I I think we need that. We need something we we need Some things, some for, some person, some personality that is based on that. We the 70% of the world that by nature don't care Can't be the leaders. We we need someone from that. No. No. No. That that that that wasn't I didn't say they didn't care. I said 30% of the who are the ones who are leading us down the path that we're going from an environmental and from a war perspective. The 70% are the are the rest of us, and we do care. But a lot of people in that 70% have just basically stepped out because they're finding it too depressing. I speak to lots of people. Their mental health is suffering. They don't wanna confront the stuff that I confront every single day. They I don't know how I can do it. But for me, I I feel I need to do it. I need to understand what's going on. I need to make sense of what's going on because, You know, I'm a parent as well. I'm this is my children's futures. This is your children's futures, and I care, you know, and Yeah. I don't you know, I think humanity can rise. I think we can be better than this. So there's not a lot of hope out there to back up that, but I think we can, but we've gotta recognize that we've all got a role. You know, like, Cecile said, we all have a responsibility to contribute to global peace. I mean, another thing that's come up a lot, and I'll put this in the weekend reads, is racism is on the rise. So, American Jews as well as American Palestinians and the wider Muslim community in America, are are experiencing, attacks. We saw, you know, the young boy that was stabbed to death, a Palestinian boy in America. We saw the people in Europe, so there's, racism is on the rise again in Europe. We we have to wipe that out. You know? We're we're all brothers and sisters here on the same planet, and we have to come together. Another big story is ethnic cleansing. So apparently, a secret report was released that they're trying to Get all the pal all the Palestinians in Gaza to basically leave. So what if part of the bombing, people are saying, why why won't they leave? Well, if they leave and they cross the into Egypt. They won't be able to get back into Palestine. So, you know, basically, what this, article is saying is in for the Israelis To relocate the up to about 2,000,000 people from Palestine into the Sinai, which is, the sign The peninsula just in between Egypt and, Israel. It's gonna cost them between 5 to $8,000,000,000 To get them set up in tents, and then build the infrastructure. Now looking at the heat, it is predicted for next year if we put All of the Palestinians, intense. It's gonna be a tragedy down the track because they're not gonna be able to cope with living in that environment with that extreme heat, but their cities are being bombed. So they've they've since they've they've lost everything anyway, so it's not like they can rely on the air conditioning in Palestine to keep them cool when the heat comes. So, you know, just from a weather perspective, I'm I'm concerned for their future as well, you know, and it's It's months away. It's not it's not a long time away. Any thought final thoughts? I I just thought about how, you know, it's it's a constant theme with me about how people jump into the into the Preestablished reactions that they want to have, you know, that they they they they have a a sense of where they fall on a certain topic Before something happens, and then when that triggering event happens, they instantly go into The more that they had been, in a sense I don't know. It's sort of rehearsing for all all the time. So I I I'm I I really think that, for instance, the the the the they're getting getting a bit more of a sense of what Really happened before all those, be be before you open your mouth and say something, whatever you think needs to be said. You know, I I I I really think people aren't spending time philosophizing. I mean, it's a very unpopular thing anyway to start with, the idea of philosophizing, but that's really what you Should be thinking about it's gonna, like, well, from this perspective and from that perspective and, you know, various ways of looking at things and trying to see, how everything fits into place and has a perspective. I mean, I I was thinking about how when you When you write something, it it really doesn't need to go anywhere else. It the the the The writing may be part of the process, but it doesn't have to be completed with sending it out or posting it out. It doesn't have to be posted globally. It can be put into a smaller group. It can be you know, it's it's it's it's just asking So putting in context, really, in terms of when you write something, is this really that important? You know, what I've written, what I've said, Is this something that deserves the air that I'm gonna give it? It's And it's hard because we we you know, we're getting trained. I I I was thinking about our particular industry, the the speaking industry. Right? Our business is attention. Our business is really getting someone to look at you, listen to you, and and and think well of you. And, you know, as you were talking about, why people wanna keep expressing an opinion about things, that also is kind of the, that that's the learning that we've derived, From marketing, we we've learned that, for instance, brands that show and that have an opinion take a position on things, they seem to be more successful. And so we react to that. We're actually we're actually driven by a result, which may not be to do with the actual, Impact on what we're saying. We're we're you know, I think I think L'Oreal or anybody else saying anything about anything is it's not about Changing the world, it's about changing the sales. It's about making them like your brand. It's it's all it's all for everything else accept the actual thing. You know? I mean, I I think that's the that's the real problem. We we as consumers, what problem is we don't see through that. We don't stop and think this is because they're doing they're doing this because of that. They they don't really care about this particular topic. And, you know, if if we were more I I I guess the word is walk to it. Right. It would help. Yeah. Sishel, do you wanna say anything else? I'm just I'm just noticing Nara's comment about United Nations. You know, I think I absolutely agree, but I think we need to be very, very, very Careful about constantly attacking the United Nations is failing us because, like we were talking about before, the United Nations has been set up in a way that it It's almost impossible for it to succeed. So if we really want the United Nations to lead us, we need to empower it to lead us in all ways, You know, and that includes the financial support. It includes all the different levels of support. I agree with that. And I think, along with what we We talk about the United Nations. I I would still go strong in saying that each one of us has A little responsibility to contribute to that peaceful effort and not just, you know, keep waiting for somebody else like you went to do it. That is that's surely a, a point. And even what Joe's talked about the design, about the structure, about the funds that they have. So they do have their limitations. There's no doubt about it. And, Yeah. I agree that they have to be empowered before they can, do it. You see, another, another thing that comes to my mind is that, When we are talking about the present conflict in, Israel and Hamas, that It remains a mystery as to why Israel, which is known like, we have admired Israel always As a nation which has the best security system, you know, there's been a metaphorly metaphoric statement that is weird that If you think about Israel, they know it. They already know it. That is the type of intelligence system they had. But why did they fail so drastically that for the 1st 7 to 8 hours, they didn't even know what is going on? Their is their responses didn't come for about 8 hours, which is very, very surprising. Mhmm. It is also, Very, you know, the way the Hamas people have planned and implanted It's something that we'll have to learn a lot from in all our in in every country, you'll have to see how does it apply to us. So I was doing a little exercise of learning about and I was watching 2, 3 discussions what the Indian Army is learning from this Particular conflict militarily. And, one of the important things was that Hamas had, in the month of May June, clearly indicated that there's something gonna happen. That during the festival season, which is September, October, there's something gonna happen. And they also talked about some new types of weapons which are not known to the world are gonna be used and all that. And the only thing that they were doing was that they were Pointing it all towards the West Bank. They were all talking. You know, so the attention was being diverted to there where the plans were actually gonna be unfold in the Gaza Strip. Now this was a plan in their mind, and the beauty is That they were painting pictures to to deliberately make Israel believe that something is going to happen in the West Bank, and they should be prepared there. And why Israel got sucked into this? According to great military minds, they said that'll remain a mystery that, why did why did Israel not sense it that it was coming? Why were they so surprised? Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's all part of the shock. Right? How could this happen to Israel? Yeah. And, there was, there was certainly, like, they use a term called battled dump. That, you know, that they were dumb. They didn't know what happened, and it it took them about 8 hours to shake out of the, cell band, realize that this is the reality that, what's happening? And, then, you know, we talked about the way it is the the way this region, is you know, it can get escalated to not only remain between Israel and, Hamas, it could spread over to the other countries, whether it's Egypt, whether it's Syria, all that. And that can be a very, very dangerous thing culminating in what you said is about the nuclear threat. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta we gotta time it all down, so I just wanna just give you some some major Environment news that's been happening just in the last few weeks. So, I don't know if you saw hurricane Otis made landfall in Acapulco, Mexico yesterday morning. It went from a tropical storm to a category 5 in basically about 12 hours. It was shocking. It they'd never had a category five Hit that coast, and they couldn't get ready for it, and some of the images are, horrible. Some other headlines, we are afraid scientists issue new warning as world enters uncharted climate territory, and there's also earth's vital signs worse than at any time in human history. And the other big story is West Antarctic ice sheet collapse may be unavoidable, and they're talking Yeah. Basically, about between now and the end of this century. But what a lot of this coverage isn't talking about is the albedo effect, and that's basically There's so much of the ice that's going in the Antarctic, it's gonna it's gonna the ocean's gonna absorb more heat from the sun because there's less ice to reflect it back. One of the, one of the headlines is a once every 7,500,000 years event is currently unfolding in Antarctica. To say unprecedented is not strong enough. So that's it's a big, big, big things that are happening from an environment perspective, but I wanna talk about Mass die offs. This is also happening at the moment. So we heard a few months ago that thousands of emperor penguins died because, the ice cut basically shredded, and they and they they can't survive in the in the freezing waters until they get enough feathers on them. We also heard about the dolphins pink dolphins dying in the Amazon because it was too hot. So, one article, commercial shellfish landings decline. So if you like your shellfish, this is basically because the water's too warm. Extreme ocean temperatures threatened to wipe out Caribbean coral, So we saw huge coral bleachings right across the Caribbean, and Australia's gonna be facing its big die off soon. Another one, tiny antarctic creatures provide 8,600,000,000 of carbon storage via their poo. Poo. Sorry. That wasn't intentional. Basically, this is, krill, and they've worked out they're much more valuable if keep him in the ocean versus the value when we take him out. The slow death of a desert giant, which is, the the cacti that's dying in the Sonoran Desert. These starfish face extinction, unusual deaths of hundreds of West Coast grey whales linked to lack of Arctic ice, Billions of Alaska snow crab have starved to death because of ocean heat. Chum salmon are spawning in the Arctic. It's an ominous sign. Dominica's mountain chicken frog faces disappearance in fastest track to extinction ever recorded. These are just in the last few weeks, mass die offs. So when I sort of talk about we need peace, we really, really, really need peace, and we need to get focused on healing the world, regenerating the world, bringing everything back. You know? We've we've we've pushed everything so far to the brink and when climate Scientists are saying we're out of time. We're out of time, and some are saying now we're really out of time. I still think that if we can Get the message to bring it all back, but we can't do that if we're at war. So that's what the big the biggest point I really wanted to get across. Joe, Cecile, do you wanna wrap up and then we'll do our distractions? I I I think the real challenge is always about, what is the most distracting pain at any one time? You know, there's a thing there's a there's a medical principle, basically, that if you have, you know, if if if, even even if you're having some kind of, chronic pain somewhere in your body, but you just cut the fingertip Cut off your fingertip. Your attention goes completely to it, and that's the biggest pain. And and it may not be the biggest problem you're facing, but it's where your attention is gonna go. The the challenge I was thinking, actually, is is kinda typified by the by the, and And and pardon me for the for the rule I'm gonna pull up here, but, basically, it's about this the the all seeing, all doing mom. You know, mom needs to be Running around looking and saying, I need to get this fixed and to get that fixed, and this is all the stuff. And then all of it a world now where we're focused on getting the one thing done. This is what my job is. This is what I have to do. This is my priority. And when I when I'm done with what I have to do, I'm done. I don't have time for the rest of it. We're we're we're a very segmented, society, and also economies, we're we're we're we're all in this little segment. We don't do everything anymore. I mean, nobody does everything anymore. But the the the fact is, I think we are facing a we are facing when we say the word global challenge. It's it's in in the sense that, you know, it's global in the sense that it's it's about all of us as well. It's it's not I'm not talking about geography. I'm talking about it's in all in all directions at the same time. We can't just stop, For instance, this part of thing, one one aspect of things and say, okay, then the then the other side will take care of it. Unless we've been organized into some incredible teams that are going to do those things. I mean, people who are going to, for instance, fight to solve the problems of the environment should not be burdened with any of the other things. If if we want a world that works that way, then we're gonna have people who are dedicated and unencumbered by other realities like that. They should be, for instance I mean, the the the idea of the UN, but applied to the environment, for instance, you know, I mean, Global, not peacekeepers, but environmentkeepers, you know, should be able to do what they do, do everything they have to do Despite everything that's happening, the the the the the the it should be an essential, activity that carries on regardless. And I think what what happens right now is now we we are taking it as a different priority as in, like, it's, what what what needs to be done or what needed to be done yesterday has become, good to have The next day, especially when the when the attention has gone to the that thing. You know? So that's that's kinda where we are. It's it's it's it it's a lot of big boy It's not big boy thinking, which is not what we're really been cut out to do. We've been we've been turned into into segmented, do your own thing stay in your lane people. And and that's why it's gonna take a very special breed of person or or or or or organization or country to come along and actually try and and fix things on a bigger scale. Yeah. We've I don't know if we've lost, but we'll go we'll go into the last bit. Really appreciate everyone. There's been some great conversation here happening, jumping in. But, it's important to be distracted, and to not take ourselves too seriously because, I certainly need it. So, Joe, what have you been distracted by? What podcast I've been taking this all very seriously. I I I've been taking myself very seriously. I am I'm I tend to be one of those people who who who spends time learning more stuff when I have time to to, When I have time, I'll I'll try and learn about something else as well. So I'm going into psychology and trying to figure out, more about dynamics, about our family, about about business, You know, stuff like that. I did, however, drop into I did I did finish off a series, an entire series. I've been I should watch the bones, which is, it's not a it's not a very new show. So if you as you watch it, some of it might not hold up already. The earlier earlier episodes seem to be a little bit out of touch, but it's a nice nice little investigative show. Bones is about an archaeologist, anthropologist, An archaeologic well, anyway, she's an anthropologist who who works in the in the area of forensics, solving crimes and stuff like that. But there's it's It's it's actually kind of, to to to to put it more accurately, it's kind of like the it's like it's like Friends, Except the science involved. So that's that's kind of a weird way to to look at it, but, it it is actually more about the characters. And many times, I don't even remember what the what the what the murder or mystery was about, but it's that cast of characters and what they do and how they interact with the other. So there's a there's a bit of comedy. There's a bit of There's a bit of, treachery, but, you know, it's kind of a kind of a kind of a fun ride. Alright. Well, that sounds like something I could get stuck into If I'm looking for a distraction, especially from the archaeological perspective. So, I've been watching, so there's a new season of Lupin. Do you know have you ever watched that? It's a French series. Yes. Mhmm. And so there's a new series. Have you seen it? Yeah. I've I've, I've I've I've seen all of it. Alright. Even the recent one. Okay. And there's a couple of movies that have just come out on, Netflix. 1 is Old Dads, and, it's very inappropriate, but I found it really, really funny. And, the other one is Jennifer Lawrence's Maybe no hard feelings. And, that's getting some interesting coverage because there's a a naked scene where she goes for it, and, of course, that's Pretty much what everyone everyone wants to talk about, but, actually, it's a really it's a cool and and inappropriate movie too. But I if you don't mind inappropriate, which I I'm a I'm a lover of. I recommend them. So, Shelley, you're still there? We've lost your video, but I I can hear something. Yeah. I think there's something going wrong with the camera, and first, I got locked up. So, yeah, when it comes to destruction, I'm, I'm really, No. The the area I'm dwelling into these days is, artificial intelligence. And, because that's new and I'm quite fascinated by So I do a little bit of work on trying to I've I've taken up some courses, and, I'm getting into that. That's the that's the area I am sort of working on besides my other work. Alright. Well, let us know if you find anything good. I haven't Discovered anything that AI can do that I is better than me yet. Alright, guys. It's been, a wide ranging conversation. We're talking about lots and lots of different things. Really appreciate the guys that jumped in and commented. But, Cecile, really happy that you came and joined us. A perfect contribution to today today's discussion. So thank you. And, Joe, always, Good to see you. Final words. And thank you. Thank you very much for getting me on this platform. I'm really honored, And I really loved the conversation. Thank you, Joe. And, of course, I'll thank Tim, all who's not here right now. Cool. And I see with Singapore and meeting Job, physically in the in the, Speaker's Academy. It was good fun. Yeah. Nice. Nice. I miss I miss all of that. Just the ability to catch up with each other. Alright, guys. We'll see you in a couple of weeks with the No Show, and next week, we're gonna be talking about equality as part of Climate Courage. So, Praveen Gupta is gonna be joining me. He's a really fantastic writer and thought leader on on this space. So I'm looking forward to that. So have a great weekend, and, we'll see you soon. Alright. Bye. Alright.